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Where, instead of everything being from an Autobot perspective, it's from a Decepticon Perspective, or at least have a couple of episodes that way? Because keep in mind, all we've gotten since G1 is something along the lines of "Autobots in base doing something, they get character development before plot gets underway, etc." or "Autobots are doing this, and we'll follow THEM to the battlefield, yadda, yadda, yadda." Notice in G1, it was never "Starscream is taunting any of the other Decepticons out back, while Megatron is busy, etc" The only Decepticon we ever got to see in their base was Megatron or one of his assistants for that episode. So I was thinking, why not change things for Decepticon fans?

Trouble is, you need to bear in mind that cartoons, particularly ones related to toylines, are aimed at kids. And as such, it'll be really hard to project a positive moral stance when your protagonists are actually the ones trying to destory the planet.
Sure, I know, it shouldn't be up to cartoons to shape kids' morals, but kids are impressionable.

Even if they can't do that, they can still do a few episodes of a cartoon where the Decepticons actually win with no strings attached. And it's not like this sort of scenario is unknown to cartoons, either.

OMG, it's the nerd again.

That's right. It is COMPLETELY unrealistic to think that the Autobots won EVERY battle. That's never happened in ANY war in human history.

And more character development on the Decepticons would be VERY nice. Usually they're portrayed as one-dimensional and evil for the heck of it. But aren't they pretty similar to Autobots? Decepticons have hopes and dreams, little quirks, backstories, things that matter to them...

This would teach kids a VERY important lesson. The world isn't black and white. Good and evil don't work that way, like a magnet with opposite poles. It's more like a spectrum with varying levels of evilness or goodness.

And it would show that nobody is entirely evil or entirely good. Optimus Prime probably has moments when he'd just LOVE to storm the Decepticon base and reboot Megatron's motherboard the hard way. And Megatron seems to genuinely give a rat's patoot about the welfare of Cybertron.

If the Iraq War has shown us anything, it's that sometimes there just isn't a right thing to do. It's that 'lesser of two evils' thing. Sometimes all you can do is choose the path that will cause the least pain and/or death. And even now, sixty years later, the morality of the use of the atomic bomb to end World War II is still debated. That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The President at that time was Harry Truman, and the choice was solely his. Drop the bomb and wipe out two cities to end the war quickly, or refuse to use it in favor of just plain invading Japan? Which choice would cause more pain? What would YOU have done?

Kids should also learn the truth about war. In war, there are no good guys and no bad guys, only victims. After all, each and every soldier has a family and friends, right? And they're the ones who actually WANT to be there! So what does that say about civilians caught in the crossfire?

The Decepticons probably believe that what they are doing is right, draining energy to revive their world. Neither side is actually 'evil' as we'd define it. They're both trying to do The Right Thing. They merely disagree on what The Right Thing is. They're not fighting some nameless, faceless mass of evilness, they're fighting thinking, feeling people who have hopes and dreams just like they do. The real evil is war itself because it makes people have to do this stuff.

Kids need to learn these things so they'll know the truth. So I would say portray both sides equally, or make two versions of the show, one for each side. I'd be all for this because children are our future and they need to know that war really sucks.

Man, I can't believe I just pulled a whole essay out of my aft...

Night Raid wrote:OMG, it's the nerd again.

That's right. It is COMPLETELY unrealistic to think that the Autobots won EVERY battle. That's never happened in ANY war in human history.

And more character development on the Decepticons would be VERY nice. Usually they're portrayed as one-dimensional and evil for the heck of it. But aren't they pretty similar to Autobots? Decepticons have hopes and dreams, little quirks, backstories, things that matter to them...

This would teach kids a VERY important lesson. The world isn't black and white. Good and evil don't work that way, like a magnet with opposite poles. It's more like a spectrum with varying levels of evilness or goodness.

And it would show that nobody is entirely evil or entirely good. Optimus Prime probably has moments when he'd just LOVE to storm the Decepticon base and reboot Megatron's motherboard the hard way. And Megatron seems to genuinely give a rat's patoot about the welfare of Cybertron.

If the Iraq War has shown us anything, it's that sometimes there just isn't a right thing to do. It's that 'lesser of two evils' thing. Sometimes all you can do is choose the path that will cause the least pain and/or death. And even now, sixty years later, the morality of the use of the atomic bomb to end World War II is still debated. That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The President at that time was Harry Truman, and the choice was solely his. Drop the bomb and wipe out two cities to end the war quickly, or refuse to use it in favor of just plain invading Japan? Which choice would cause more pain? What would YOU have done?

Kids should also learn the truth about war. In war, there are no good guys and no bad guys, only victims. After all, each and every soldier has a family and friends, right? And they're the ones who actually WANT to be there! So what does that say about civilians caught in the crossfire?

The Decepticons probably believe that what they are doing is right, draining energy to revive their world. Neither side is actually 'evil' as we'd define it. They're both trying to do The Right Thing. They merely disagree on what The Right Thing is. They're not fighting some nameless, faceless mass of evilness, they're fighting thinking, feeling people who have hopes and dreams just like they do. The real evil is war itself because it makes people have to do this stuff.

Kids need to learn these things so they'll know the truth. So I would say portray both sides equally, or make two versions of the show, one for each side. I'd be all for this because children are our future and they need to know that war really sucks.

Man, I can't believe I just pulled a whole essay out of my aft...

But it was a good one though
I agree with this also. Not every Decepticon is totally evil or every Autobot a complete angel. I bet not all of the Decepticons agree with the level of brutality that Megatron tends to go with, and would probably say so if it weren't for their fear of Megatron. And a few of the Autobots are actually sociopaths plus they dislike humans and think they're inferior. I say this because it is realistic, no Decepticon or Autobot is a clone of another, even the 'clones' don't act the same. But some of the Decepticons ARE evil, and some of the Autobots are considered good.

That would be an interesting idea, having a cartoon or CGI (or even live action!) show more from the 'cons side. And show them WINNING ONCE IN A WHILE.

Man, I hope this doesn't sound stupid coming from a pair of Decepticons...

Yeah, I mean, look at Skywarp and Thundercracker in G1. What character development did they get? Sod all.

Zombie Starscream wrote:

Night Raid wrote:OMG, it's the nerd again.

That's right. It is COMPLETELY unrealistic to think that the Autobots won EVERY battle. That's never happened in ANY war in human history.

And more character development on the Decepticons would be VERY nice. Usually they're portrayed as one-dimensional and evil for the heck of it. But aren't they pretty similar to Autobots? Decepticons have hopes and dreams, little quirks, backstories, things that matter to them...

This would teach kids a VERY important lesson. The world isn't black and white. Good and evil don't work that way, like a magnet with opposite poles. It's more like a spectrum with varying levels of evilness or goodness.

And it would show that nobody is entirely evil or entirely good. Optimus Prime probably has moments when he'd just LOVE to storm the Decepticon base and reboot Megatron's motherboard the hard way. And Megatron seems to genuinely give a rat's patoot about the welfare of Cybertron.

If the Iraq War has shown us anything, it's that sometimes there just isn't a right thing to do. It's that 'lesser of two evils' thing. Sometimes all you can do is choose the path that will cause the least pain and/or death. And even now, sixty years later, the morality of the use of the atomic bomb to end World War II is still debated. That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The President at that time was Harry Truman, and the choice was solely his. Drop the bomb and wipe out two cities to end the war quickly, or refuse to use it in favor of just plain invading Japan? Which choice would cause more pain? What would YOU have done?

Kids should also learn the truth about war. In war, there are no good guys and no bad guys, only victims. After all, each and every soldier has a family and friends, right? And they're the ones who actually WANT to be there! So what does that say about civilians caught in the crossfire?

The Decepticons probably believe that what they are doing is right, draining energy to revive their world. Neither side is actually 'evil' as we'd define it. They're both trying to do The Right Thing. They merely disagree on what The Right Thing is. They're not fighting some nameless, faceless mass of evilness, they're fighting thinking, feeling people who have hopes and dreams just like they do. The real evil is war itself because it makes people have to do this stuff.

Kids need to learn these things so they'll know the truth. So I would say portray both sides equally, or make two versions of the show, one for each side. I'd be all for this because children are our future and they need to know that war really sucks.

Man, I can't believe I just pulled a whole essay out of my aft...

But it was a good one though
I agree with this also. Not every Decepticon is totally evil or every Autobot a complete angel. I bet not all of the Decepticons agree with the level of brutality that Megatron tends to go with, and would probably say so if it weren't for their fear of Megatron. And a few of the Autobots are actually sociopaths plus they dislike humans and think they're inferior. I say this because it is realistic, no Decepticon or Autobot is a clone of another, even the 'clones' don't act the same. But some of the Decepticons ARE evil, and some of the Autobots are considered good.

That would be an interesting idea, having a cartoon or CGI (or even live action!) show more from the 'cons side. And show them WINNING ONCE IN A WHILE.

Aye, nicely said mates!
This is the reason why I have a problem with the monsterizing of the Decepticons in the film. Monsterizing opponents might have worked well in the past but for this day and age its quite an overly simplistic way to portray someone. In this light this is why I always found Shockwave to be such an interesting antagonist; he was never a Megalomanic or demagog. In different circumstances it'd be easy to root for him.

...I'm guessing that's what fanfiction is for.

And why not? What is the Star Wars universe? Six movies and a whole lotta fanfiction! Backstories all around, alternate universes up the wazoo, prequels for prequels... For lack of anything else, fanfiction is sometimes taken as canon. What are comic books and the like but fanfiction of a higher sort?

And OMG, did an Autobot just agree with with a bunch of Decepticons?

...Just pulling your leg on that last one.

I would love to see a "Mirror mirror" universe episode where the Decepticons are good and the Autobots are evil and they interact with our good autobots and decepticons on our Earth.. that would be cool!!!

There IS a 'Mirrorverse' out there somewhere. Try Googling 'Transformers Mirrorverse'.

skywarp-2 wrote:I would love to see a "Mirror mirror" universe episode where the Decepticons are good and the Autobots are evil and they interact with our good autobots and decepticons on our Earth.. that would be cool!!!

Yeah! Kinda like the Star Trek mirror universe! That was twisted! But an evil Optimus Prime give me the creep...

Even weirder to imagine is "Good Megatron". Optimus seem easy to imagine "evil" but Megatron...er...i dunno!

I think he would be a somewhat gruff fellow with a mischievous streak.

Y'know, I get the feeling I just made a post similar to this one...only with a completely different aim.

Why? Because here, I'm gonna agree with Night Raid. Although I generally believe that yeah, the 'Bots are generally the good guys and the 'Cons are generally the villains, it's still bloody war. I mean, my father was enlisted during 'Nam, and he lost a few friends during that infamous war...I grew up hearing these horrible stories of what happened, and never developed that sense that apparently a good chunk of my fellow Americans did that such violence could be seen as "good" or "heroic." And though I don't think seeing a series through Decepticon protagonists would be a brilliant idea (we already have that on the news--we jus' call 'em Neocons there), having a series that would switch back and forth between a 'Bot and a 'Con whose own struggles with their respective ideologies could be a focal point. At least something to break down the old "unquestionable good versus unspeakable evil" binary and add a sense of realism when it seems Western culture desperately needs it.

It's something we've never really gotten a lot of in the Transformers mythos. I mean, I don't ever recall seeing such a scene in any of the comics or cartoons, but I always thought that Prime would be a character who would mourn the loss of any life on the battlefield...that the tragedy wouldn't be that the body laying lifeless on the ground was a Decepticon or an Autobot, but just another Cybertronian that paid the ultimate cost just for an ideological discussion gone horribly, horribly wrong. In Armada, we saw a new Starscream character that still envisioned some of the Decepticon ideal, but still formed a bond with supposedly "lesser" beings, even sacrificing himself for them--something unheard of in a Decepticon; could this really be so unique? And towards the end of the UK comic's run way back when...a truly touching scene between Ultra Magnus and Soundwave, when the thought of peace finally being forged between Autobot and Decepticon...only to be dismissed because of the ages-old violence, commenting on the nigh-permanence of war on Cybertron...

...but these are just glimpses. And when we are given "good guys" and "bad guys"...we probably need a lot more than that.

Then again, maybe that's why the new cartoon is shifting away from the "Autobot v. Decepticon" dynamic: if networks aren't comfortable with attempting to discuss war in a realistic manner--something that the Afghanistan and Iraq wars have brought to the forefront--then maybe the only direction left for the franchise is to shift from warriors to "superheroes." And I'm not sure if that is something to be thankful for...or to be depressed about.

To answer your question; there is a website dedicated to an Alternate Universe for Transformers. The sites DNS is http://mirrorverse.transfactions.net/main.html and it's very much akin to the Fanfiction page we used to have here on Seibertron.
The difference is this site is still up and running and the Autobote and Decepticons have switched roles. The stories are well written, and I had actually begun to tie in the stories on that site and ours before the fanfiction section was removed from the creative tab. Anywho, check it out, it will definitely satisfy you imagination.

COMMANDER wrote:To answer your question; there is a website dedicated to an Alternate Universe for Transformers. The sites DNS is http://mirrorverse.transfactions.net/main.html and it's very much akin to the Fanfiction page we used to have here on Seibertron.
The difference is this site is still up and running and the Autobote and Decepticons have switched roles. The stories are well written, and I had actually begun to tie in the stories on that site and ours before the fanfiction section was removed from the creative tab. Anywho, check it out, it will definitely satisfy you imagination.

Why the fanfiction section removed?

You see TF fans should be the one to write the cartoons. I'm going to send a script of what should happen in TF2 anyone have his E-mail adress

Holy revival of topics that died months ago, Batman!

Mirror TF universe wouldn't work very well. Prime's faceplate doesn't suit a goatee.

craggy wrote:Mirror TF universe wouldn't work very well. Prime's faceplate doesn't suit a goatee.

what if his faceplate was the goatee

the personas section of the tf:mirror site seems interesting, but yeah Megs doesn't seem.. believable

The cons just seem to make more since as the punching bags in that fan verse... and the site hasn't been updated in about a year...

Night Raid, is so right.

Oh, I think they should stay as they are, but I would want to know more what's going on with Megatron's thoughts, for example, I don't think it's always evil and dark. I'm so happy for comics and fanfiction. I just wish I can write as well as I can draw.

Ooh nice topic. *Joins in the necromancy*

I'm thinking it should be much like some of the comics have been, showing how things were before the main part of the war, where the faction lines were a little more blurry and it would be easier to see the Decepticons as freedom fighters rather than an evil machination. If I had to attach some alignments to it I'd set the Autobot establishment as Lawful Evil, and the Decepticon faction, which would need a name to separate themselves from their destined evil selves, would be Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral.

What would really be cool is if at the end of this story our main con has accomplished a major victory over the Autobot establishment only to be murdered and usurped by a young Megatron, ushering in their new philosophy of conquest at all costs, leading us on to the classic Autobot vs Decepticon story.

IMHO The closest series to be what Night Raid and others have already stated a more morally ambiguous series and in a
way it is the most complex series was Beast Machines.

In that series Megatron doesn't see himself as evil he sees
himself as the savior of Cybertron and states on more than
one occasion that he will "save" the Maximals from their
trans-organic bodies.

Personally, I wouldn't want to see a cartoon series where the Decepticons pulverize cities every week. That would get as stale as the Autobots winning every week.

BUT

I have always liked the little touches that show that Autobots and Decepticons are not cookie cutter Bad Guys and Good Guys. Octane and Sandstorm were friends in the G1 cartoon, even though they weren't on the same side. And Cliffjumper being suspicious of Mirage. Thundercracker's shaky loyalty to the Decepticon cause, and Starscream and Skyfire's broken friendship.

Too much and you dilute the sides, but a little as spice makes for great stories.

I do like Optimus and Megatron to be the poster boys for their factions. Optimus is noble and heroic (but not infalliable) and Megatron is ruthless and power hungry. (But not insane or twirling a mustache cliche) They are the represenative of the Autobots and Decepticons, and if they stray too far, there's no point in them beind leaders anymore.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Megatron is not evil. He has a plan, and it's simple: peace through tyrrany. You can't have peace unless you knock everyone who's a potential rival into submission. Just look at Star Wars with the empire:

With empire, everyone's at peace. No planet would dare attack another planet, or they'd get a death star welcoming committee. Nonproductive planets like Alderan (what sort of wusses have no weapons? come on...) can be culled from the herd without wishy-washyness.

Megatron wants what is best for the universe: empire. He's seen the Autobot way of doing things, and knows that IT DOES NOT WORK. Period. The Autobot way of running Cybertron put it into the dark ages, drained it of energon, and would have Cybertronians begging other planets for energy.

All hail Megatron!