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Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Still better than the crap the Japanese pulled with Beast Wars.

Irrelevant and off topic.

No, not really.
You're complaining about how the Japanese shows have been Americanised and how that goes against artistic integrity, and I pointed out that the Japanese did worse with Beast Wars where they pretty much just spoofed the show.

Oh they also changed the meaning of the original US show, by changing character names, terminology, the time-line, etc...

You're talking about a dub. I'm talking about subs. The JG1 shows themselves have not been changed. The subtitles, however, have. Or at least, they don't match up with what the show's dialogue script says.

If there were ever to be a subtitled version of the Japanese Beast Wars dub, the English subs included in it should very well reflect the goofy nature of that dub, as they are intended to tell us what exactly is being spoken by the characters and not rewrite the meaning of the dialogue.

Like it or not, but this DVD collection is the official American version of these shows. Had they been dubbed, they would have been the same.

I'm also pretty sure that the subs on Japanese DVDs use Japanese names and terminology instead of the American names and terminology.

And there are parts in these shows that are impossible to translate accurately even with subtitles, especially in Masterforce, which is why the Decepticon Pretenders constantly say "Remember this" while retreating.

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Like it or not, but this DVD collection is the official American version of these shows. Had they been dubbed, they would have been the same.

It's an American product of the Japanese version. These shows do not exist in American continuity.

Dead Metal wrote:I'm also pretty sure that the subs on Japanese DVDs use Japanese names and terminology instead of the American names and terminology.

What subs? The average DVDs in Japan do not have English subtitles.

Dead Metal wrote:And there are parts in these shows that are impossible to translate accurately even with subtitles, especially in Masterforce, which is why the Decepticon Pretenders constantly say "Remember this" while retreating.

Metrodome and Madman both did. As did TV-Nihon. Anything they can do Shout! Factory can do too.

I have the Metrodome release, and the audio cometary explains that there are phrases and situations that are impossible to do, even in subs. And they showed pointed it out on the example of the Decepticon Pretenders, in the subs they say "Remember this", while the Japanese line goes something like "Remember this for I will make you pay for what you did when next we meet" or the like.
The Metrodome release of Headmasters also used the American names instead of the Japanese ones, the only reason the American names weren't used in Masterforce was due to them being completely different characters, like Ginrai.

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I have the Metrodome release, and the audio cometary explains that there are phrases and situations that are impossible to do, even in subs. And they showed pointed it out on the example of the Decepticon Pretenders, in the subs they say "Remember this", while the Japanese line goes something like "Remember this for I will make you pay for what you did when next we meet" or the like.

That's still an attempt to maintain the original message of the dialogue. It may not be "literal", but it's still "faithful" to the spirit of it.

Though, I'm trying to check the episodes myself for these lines, and I haven't found them yet. Do you know which episode(s) this occurred in?

No idea which episode had that audio commentary, but the Pretenders said it every time they lost a battle and retreated, as in every early episode of the series.

Dead Metal wrote:The Metrodome release of Headmasters also used the American names instead of the Japanese ones, the only reason the American names weren't used in Masterforce was due to them being completely different characters, like Ginrai.

U.S. names for characters who are the same are more tolerable than U.S. names for characters who are different. It's the latter that bugs me.

Well to be fair, Scorponok and Zarak are utterly different in the US and Japan, but they still went with the US names for them.

Sabrblade wrote:

RhA wrote:Also, 'artistic integrity' is taking things a bit too far. These are commisioned toy commercials.

These are no different from any other toyetic anime that get faithfully-translated subtitles on DVD. Why should these be denied the same treatment of accuracy as those other anime?

Just passing through, and none too knowledgable about translations from Japanese, but this is the eternal Transformers argument. We are a passionate fanbase, but should for some reason(s) overlook that passion because the thing we enjoy is 'merely' a toy commerical. Whichever side you're on is essentially perfect justification for whatever opinion you have, i.e the movies. Despite our fandom we should ignore what we don't like because, afterall, they are designed to sell toys and be summer action movies, and if you don't like that, you somehow are taking something you enjoy and are passionate about 'too seriously,' which people can somehow say with a straight face.
These releases are meant for us as older fans, and I'd guess who are primarily in English/non-Japanese speaking locales. Therefore, if they change Convoy to Optimus Prime I see little problem since that's most likely how most people know him. But if substantial parts of a plot or dialogue are changed for no apparent reason, that's bad in general.