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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby duragrip » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:31 am

"Let this mark the end of the G1 wars as we march forward to a new age of peace and happiness."

"Till all are One!"
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:49 am

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I don't think this was a war :P it was far too civil to be a war, but I understand the sentiment.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:11 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:I don't think this was a war :P it was far too civil to be a war, but I understand the sentiment.
He's just quoting (is misquoting in this case) the G1 movie. :P
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby duragrip » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:02 pm

Can I get the Japanese continuity after "Rebirth"?

Why do people talk about Fortress Maximus like he's a sentient robot? He's just Spike operating a machine? And same goes for Scorpinok. They're not like Metroplex and Trypticon.

From what I've seen and heard, it seems like the Japanese warped G1. I'm curious. Is it better for me to end G1 at "Rebirth"?
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:18 pm

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What do you mean warped? With Headmasters, Masterforce and Victory, if you wanted to you just ignore "the rebirth" completely (which is what I generally do as I don't really care for it) Also Fortress Maximus was first a sentient robot in the G1 marvel comics (the 4 parter mini series "Headmasters") same with Scorpknok and all the headmasters. They are only bonded with humanoids in the G1 American toon and toys. In fact all other fiction they are sentient bots (nit sure about Dreamwave they might be humanoid bonded).

A question, how do you feel about anime in general? As it could affect your viewing of Masterforce and Victory (Headmasters is animated in the American G1 style)

All said and done though, the Japanese G1 toons gave us some awesome things like Overlord, a cartoon appearance of the Seacons, God Ginrai, LeoKaiser, Star Saber, and a lot of others.

Hope this is somewhat helpful :)
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:24 pm

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duragrip wrote:Can I get the Japanese continuity after "Rebirth"?

Why do people talk about Fortress Maximus like he's a sentient robot? He's just Spike operating a machine? And same goes for Scorpinok. They're not like Metroplex and Trypticon.

From what I've seen and heard, it seems like the Japanese warped G1. I'm curious. Is it better for me to end G1 at "Rebirth"?


After Season 3 the US and Japan fiction started going in separate directions. The Headmasters series ignores both the Movie (as it wasn't released in Japan at the time) and the US Rebirth, starting directly after The Return of Optimus Prime. The biggest change has to be the very nature of the Headmasters themselves: instead of Transformers bonding with Nebulans, Nebulos was done away with and replaced with Planet Master. There, smaller Transformers built themselves larger lifeless bodies and changed into their heads, no binary bonding to speak of.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:28 pm

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duragrip wrote:Can I get the Japanese continuity after "Rebirth"?
The Japanese G1 cartoons don't take place after "The Rebirth". They take place instead of "The Rebirth", coming after "The Return of Optimus Prime, Part 2" with "The Rebirth" not existing.

duragrip wrote:Why do people talk about Fortress Maximus like he's a sentient robot? He's just Spike operating a machine? And same goes for Scorpinok. They're not like Metroplex and Trypticon.
Because he is alive in other versions outside of "The Rebirth". "The Rebirth" is only one version of the character, but not the only version.

duragrip wrote:From what I've seen and heard, it seems like the Japanese warped G1. I'm curious. Is it better for me to end G1 at "Rebirth"?
It didn't "warp" G1. In fact, the Japanese version came out before "The Rebirth" did by several months. As did the G1 Marvel Comics that also had Fortress Maximus as a living robot before bonding with Spike. So Fortress Maximus was already shown to be a living character in fiction before "The Rebirth" came out, making the living versions be the FIRST version of him.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:06 pm

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Interesting, I always thought the rebirth aired just before the Headmasters series. Did Takara have any information on what the Rebirth was going to be about?
Also, why exactly did Japan get the movie so late? But got season 3 before it? :???:

Although another question would be why they went the way they did with Transectors.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:24 pm

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ZeroWolf wrote:Interesting, I always thought the rebirth aired just before the Headmasters series. Did Takara have any information on what the Rebirth was going to be about?
That "The Rebirth" was only going to be three episodes long is one of the reasons why Takara/Toei went ahead with making The Headmasters. They wanted more episodes, but since Hasbro/Sunbow were going to end the show in America, the Japanese took it upon themselves to create their own series.

As for specific airdates, "Four Warriors Come out of the Sky" aired on July 3, 1987, and "Head On!! Fortress Maximus" aired on October 2, 1987, while all three parts of "The Rebirth" aired on the 9th, 10th, and 11th of November 1987, putting Fort Max's Japanese appearances ahead of his U.S cartoon one.

And the four issues of Marvel's Headmasters comic were publish in March, May, July, and September of 1987, also putting them ahead of "The Rebirth".

ZeroWolf wrote:Also, why exactly did Japan get the movie so late? But got season 3 before it? :???:
No one really knows why it didn't come until 1989, but it was originally supposed to air in Japanese theaters in the summer of 1987. They were at least aware of it, though, with TV magazine getting Japanese fans up to speed on its events prior to season 3's airing there as Transformers 2010.

ZeroWolf wrote:Although another question would be why they went the way they did with Transectors.
They probably wanted to go with the fully-living robots angle that Transformers had been known to employ up to that point, and felt that it would make more sense for the head robots to be alive and operating larger bodies, instead of the body robots being alive with lifeless smaller head units, as the former was more evocative of the "piloted robot" concept that's popular in Japan.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:36 pm

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Ah thanks Sarblade :)

I do prefer the transector idea personally. Especially Godmasters and Brainmasters (one of which was the first TF I got from a carboot sale :D
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby duragrip » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:44 pm

I don't Anime. I like the American G1. I'll probably end G1 at "Rebirth". Human operators makes more sense to me. The human becoming one with robot is too much for me. Maybe the early G1 comics will keep it simple for me and complement American G1. Simple is beautiful to me. Japanese G1 sounds too complex for me to accept and wrap my mind around. I don't like things that are weird, to me. I feel comfortable with the familiar. But I understand that a lot of people like the divergent and far out thinking and concepts.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:15 pm

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duragrip wrote:I don't Anime. I like the American G1. I'll probably end G1 at "Rebirth". Human operators makes more sense to me. The human becoming one with robot is too much for me. Maybe the early G1 comics will keep it simple for me and complement American G1. Simple is beautiful to me. Japanese G1 sounds too complex for me to accept and wrap my mind around. I don't like things that are weird, to me. I feel comfortable with the familiar. But I understand that a lot of people like the divergent and far out thinking and concepts.
Humans don't become one with living Transformers in Japanese G1. That happens in the Marvel Comics, but with the Nebulans.

In Japanese G1, the Headmasters and Targetmasters are full robots with no Nebulans.

As far as "anime" goes, the Japanese G1 cartoons keep to a visual style that is still similar to the American G1 cartoon.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:16 pm

Motto: "Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast."
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The rebirth is robots becoming one with humans (in this case, humanoid aliens called Nebulans) Japanese G1 is robots who build bigger bodies for themselves as they were small to begin with.

Reason I asked about anime was because of how Masterforce and Victory go, plus the lack of a quality dub, so it would be subbtitled only. Each to their own though :)
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:19 pm

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ZeroWolf wrote:The rebirth is humans becoming one with humans
8-}
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:33 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:The rebirth is humans becoming one with humans
8-}

-_-' Not my best moment, talking and typing is a hard skill to master
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby duragrip » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:05 pm

Optimus Prime was brought back to life because the fans wanted him to return.

Am I the only fan who would like to have seen the two-part episode "The Return of Megatron"?
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:33 pm

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duragrip wrote:Optimus Prime was brought back to life because the fans wanted him to return.

Am I the only fan who would like to have seen the two-part episode "The Return of Megatron"?

He became Megatron again in the Japanese G1, even got more powerful (though to be fair Optimus had also been resurrected and enhanced). Though I always thought Galvatron was cooler then Megatron, plus Galvatron turned into a toy that wouldn't get Hasbro into trouble. :lol:

Seriously though, if you want something like that, create it yourself, write it in fan-fiction form :)
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby duragrip » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:56 pm

How did Galvatron get reformatted back into Megatron? If this is really true I need to give Japanese G1 another look.

There's a big difference between Galvatron and Megatron. Galvatron is crazy and a dumb-ass. Megatron is smart, strong, sane, a leader.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby duragrip » Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:56 pm

Galvatron is selfish, incoherent, has no plan. Megatron has a plan; he has substance as a leader.

Sure I think Galvatron looks cool, but he's not Megatron. He's all flash and no substance.

Galvatron is totally self-centered, only cares about himself. Megatron sees the big picture.

I could accept the physical change if it was still Megatron (ie. same voice, brain, personality, etc.,... just a new body, same identity).
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:02 pm

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duragrip wrote:Can I get the Japanese continuity after "Rebirth"?

Why do people talk about Fortress Maximus like he's a sentient robot? He's just Spike operating a machine? And same goes for Scorpinok. They're not like Metroplex and Trypticon.

From what I've seen and heard, it seems like the Japanese warped G1. I'm curious. Is it better for me to end G1 at "Rebirth"?

in some continuities, including the G1 comics and the Japanese g1 cartoon, Fortress Maximus is a sentient robot

and BTW, the G1 comics predate the cartoon.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:10 pm

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JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:The Headmasters series ignores both the Movie (as it wasn't released in Japan at the time) and the US Rebirth,


Slight Correction

true, the film had not been released in Japan yet, but the Headmaster series did not deliberately ignore the events of the movie.,nore were the series creators ignorant of the events in the movie.

but many mistakes were made.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:07 pm

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duragrip wrote:How did Galvatron get reformatted back into Megatron? If this is really true I need to give Japanese G1 another look.
It didn't happen in a Japanese G1 cartoon, though. It happened in a Japanese G1 magazine story. The story of Galvatron becoming Megatron again was published at time when the Japanese had stopped making G1 cartoons and were instead continuing their stories in the form of mostly magazine story pages and an occasional comic (but the Japanese comics had no connection to the American comics).

duragrip wrote:Galvatron is selfish, incoherent, has no plan. Megatron has a plan; he has substance as a leader.

Sure I think Galvatron looks cool, but he's not Megatron. He's all flash and no substance.

Galvatron is totally self-centered, only cares about himself. Megatron sees the big picture.

I could accept the physical change if it was still Megatron (ie. same voice, brain, personality, etc.,... just a new body, same identity).
Galvatron is the same person Megatron, only with more craziness. Megatron was selfish too, and Galvatron would occasional praise his troops for their good works like Megatron would.

And both did have the same voice actor. Frank Welker did the voices of both. It was only in the G1 movie that someone else voiced Galvatron (Leonard Nimoy). But season 3 had voiced by the same guy who voiced Megatron again.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:20 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:That "The Rebirth" was only going to be three episodes long is one of the reasons why Takara/Toei went ahead with making The Headmasters. They wanted more episodes, but since Hasbro/Sunbow were going to end the show in America, the Japanese took it upon themselves to create their own series


thats not exactly the case.

Transformers had already been, "pretty much", canceled a few months before "the return of optimus prime" aired.Remember, Transformers was a syndicated cartoon from the start.Many markets/networks decided not to buy new episodes half way into the airing of season 3.

The return of OP re-sparked [no pun intended] some interest in the series, but not enough to get those markets back.So, the rebirth was originally pitched as a 5 part pilot/spin off.the intent/hope was to make TF's popular again with the "humanoid partner" concept.Unfortunately, they were only able to raise so much interest with the lost markets/networks, so the story was shortened to 3 parts.

The powers that be in Japan, were already unhappy with the human partner concept, because it was rather common there, upon hearing of the lack of interest in the series in the states, divided to create there own product series.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:26 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
duragrip wrote:I don't Anime. I like the American G1. I'll probably end G1 at "Rebirth". Human operators makes more sense to me. The human becoming one with robot is too much for me.


you are not making sense.
The human operator concept is the same as humans becoming one with the transformers.

When the humans become the robot heads, they have become one.
That was what you saw in "The Rebirth" and the g1 comics.

in Japan, there were no humans.Just smaller robots that became heads to the big robot bodies.It was like putting on a suit.
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T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:49 pm

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Hey duragrip, these are the forms Optimus Prime and Megatron took when they were both revived in Japan years later after the cartoons ended.

Optimus's new form is name "Star Convoy" ("Convoy" wa Optimus's Japanese name):
Image


And when Galvatron became Megatron again, he had two forms. The first (on the left) is called "Super Megatron", who later got upgraded into his second form (on the right) called "Ultra Megatron":
Image
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