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Is G1 the best?

Discuss anything about the Transformers cartoons and comics! You can discuss anything from G1 to Cybertron as well as the comics from Marvel, Dreamwave, IDW and more!

Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby duragrip » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:26 pm

Thanks Sabrblade!

That really cheers me up!

That's definitely Megatron! And they really did bring Optimus back again!

I'm definitely going to put looking into the Japanese G1 stuff onto my G1 To Do List.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you....
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:38 pm

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duragrip wrote:Thanks Sabrblade!

That really cheers me up!

That's definitely Megatron! And they really did bring Optimus back again!

I'm definitely going to put looking into the Japanese G1 stuff onto my G1 To Do List.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you....
Just remember this. These two did not appear in any cartoon, Japanese or otherwise. They came from magazine stories made after the cartoons were over.

Although, in the years after Optimus died in Japan but before he came back to life in Japan, there was a another character in a Japanese cartoon who looked like Optimus, but was a different person. His name was Ginrai (pronounced like "Jin-rye").

Look how close he looks to Optimus, despite not being Optimus:
Image

The real world reason for why he looks so similar to Optimus is because, in 1988, Hasbro created a new toy for Optimus called "Powermaster Optimus Prime". When the toy was brought over to be sold in Japan, the Japanese had already killed off Optimus and so decided to sell thi toy as a new character and thus created the character of Ginrai.

The in-story reason for why he looks like Optimus is because his body was originally meant to be a new body for Optimus, but it was stolen by the enemy before it could be used to bring Optimus back to life. The body was later hidden away and found on Earth, where it was given life as a new character through means I shall not explain just yet since I don't want to make this too complicated for you. I'm trying to take this easy to help you get used to this stuff at a decent pace. ;)
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:55 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:Hey duragrip, these are the forms Optimus Prime and Megatron took when they were both revived in Japan years later after the cartoons ended.

Optimus's new form is name "Star Convoy" ("Convoy" wa Optimus's Japanese name):
Image


And when Galvatron became Megatron again, he had two forms. The first (on the left) is called "Super Megatron", who later got upgraded into his second form (on the right) called "Ultra Megatron":
Image
nice pics

most ive seen of UMegs were smaller and grainy
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby ZeroWolf » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:59 am

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There's a lot of super megs in Animated Megatron I see :)
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Who, What, Where, When, and How?

Postby duragrip » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:14 am

How was Galvatron turned back into Megatron according to the G1 Japanese continuity? Did Shockwave rebuild him back. What were the circumstances under which he was reformatted? And why was he transformed back into Megatron. I'm just curious.

Also, how powerful is Shockwave? In the G1 cartoon he really didn't do much except kiss Megatron's ass.
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Re: Who, What, Where, When, and How?

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:30 am

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duragrip wrote:How was Galvatron turned back into Megatron according to the G1 Japanese continuity? Did Shockwave rebuild him back. What were the circumstances under which he was reformatted? And why was he transformed back into Megatron. I'm just curious.

Also, how powerful is Shockwave? In the G1 cartoon he really didn't do much except kiss Megatron's ass.


He was revived at a time where all major characters from 84-86 were long phased out, so Shockwave has no involvement. Enter the living plot device Dark Nova. He declared himself the upteenth Decepticon Emperor (after Scorponok/Mega Zarak, Devil Z, Deszaras and Violenjiger), and resurrected and upgraded Galvatron into Super Megatron. As a counter measure, the Autobots resurrected Optimus Prime with the Zodiac (the MacGuffin from Zone) since the Matrix was lost, upgrading him into Star Convoy.

Basically Takara brought the beloved Megatron and Optimus Prime back, but too little too late.
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Re: Who, What, Where, When, and How?

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:37 am

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duragrip wrote:How was Galvatron turned back into Megatron according to the G1 Japanese continuity? Did Shockwave rebuild him back. What were the circumstances under which he was reformatted? And why was he transformed back into Megatron. I'm just curious.
In the years after 2035, a new enemy had come about to command the Decepticon forces of that era. A supernatural entity from outer space called Dark Nova:

Image

Having had his latest attempt to destroy the Autobots thwarted by the arrival of the resurrected Optimus Prime (now known as Star Convoy), Dark Nova sought an alternative strategy to counter Star Convoy. Heading to Earth, he shot down a beam of energy into the waters of the Arctic, where lay the dead corpse of the deceased Galvatron, who had perished there many years earlier back in 2011.

Revitalizing the corpse, Galvatron was re-energized and reformatted into Dark Nova's newest creation: Super Megatron.

Image

duragrip wrote:Also, how powerful is Shockwave? In the G1 cartoon he really didn't do much except kiss Megatron's ass.
Uhhh... when did he ever fight Megatron in the cartoon? (I presume you're referring to the cartoon, yes?)
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby duragrip » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:43 am

Yes, in the G1 cartoon Shockwave is pretty much a passive nerd. But it seems in the G1 Transformers community he's reputed as a very powerful robot. I'm wondering why this is.

So, how did Galvatron die? Who killed him, or did he just die of old age? I thought Transformers lived forever.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby ZeroWolf » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:44 am

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If memory serves me, it was the entity known as Dark Nova, who resurrected Megatron. It was a large amount of time after Galvatron was trapped in ice after his defeat by the autobot Headmasters (as revenge for Sidebottom having previously killed Ultra Magnus). Megatron was however completely destroyed by Star Convoy in the final battle where Dark Nova fused with ultra Megatron to create Star Giant.

Shockwave was supposed to be strong but never appeared that way...in fact I can't remember what happened to him! He's far better in the comics.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:51 am

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duragrip wrote:Yes, in the G1 cartoon Shockwave is pretty much a passive nerd. But it seems in the G1 Transformers community he's reputed as a very powerful robot. I'm wondering why this is.
It's because of this. While the G1 cartoon had Shockwave as mostly a loyal Yes Man for Megatron, the G1 Marvel Comics had Shockwave as a better Decepticon leader than Megatron. At a point when Megatron and all of the Decepticons were almost ALL beaten by the Autobots, Shockwave arrived in a cliffhanger moment to save them all and defeat the Autobots in a single blast from his gun mode. Shockwave then seized control over the Decepticons, proving to them that Megatron was too incompetent and that it was only logical for one such as Shockwave to lead them. He and Megatron would presume to go at each other for a while in the comic's run, with Shockwave often besting Megatron, but sometimes with Megatron winning over Shockwave through twisted logic and cunning. Needless to say, the comics portrayed Shockwave as a much more interesting character who did a LOT more stuff than what the cartoon did with him.

duragrip wrote:So, how did Galvatron die? Who killed him, or did he just die of old age? I thought Transformers lived forever.
He died in a battle against the Autobot Headmasters using their supernatural power attacks against him, encasing him beneath the frozen waters of the Arctic.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby ZeroWolf » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:34 pm

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I am now amused at how many answers his question got in varying detail and even the real world explanation. :lol:
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Re: Who, What, Where, When, and How?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:55 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
duragrip wrote:Also, how powerful is Shockwave? In the G1 cartoon he really didn't do much except kiss Megatron's ass.
Uhhh... when did he ever fight Megatron in the cartoon? (I presume you're referring to the cartoon, yes?)


he said "KISS" megetrons ass not kick.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:05 pm

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ZeroWolf wrote:Shockwave was supposed to be strong but never appeared that way...in fact I
can't remember what happened to him
setting aside likely animation errors, Shockwave was last seen when Unicron attacked cybertron in the film.
Last edited by sto_vo_kor_2000 on Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:09 pm

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duragrip wrote:I thought Transformers lived forever.

No
They just live very long.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
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T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:00 am

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Tip: you have quote buttons in the Topic Review window as well, so you can quickly quote multiple people in a single post. ;)

Mind you, duragrip, while Galvatron being buried in ice is canon to the Japanese cartoon series, the last few series (Zone, Return of Convoy and Operation Combination) were never (fully) animated but they do follow the cartoon timeline.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Blast Cannon » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:27 am

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All this constant bringing characters back from the dead. The Japanese shows were effectively populated by intelligent zombies as the main characters.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:37 am

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Blast Cannon wrote:All this constant bringing characters back from the dead. The Japanese shows were effectively populated by intelligent zombies as the main characters.
Well, if kids back then would have just let the characters stay dead, the companies wouldn't have had to keep bringing them back.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Blast Cannon » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:00 am

Motto: ""Life is all about risks and it requires you to jump. Don't be a person who has to look back and wonder what they would have or could have had. No one lives forever.""
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Sabrblade wrote:
Blast Cannon wrote:All this constant bringing characters back from the dead. The Japanese shows were effectively populated by intelligent zombies as the main characters.
Well, if kids back then would have just let the characters stay dead, the companies wouldn't have had to keep bringing them back.


If I ever form a company that makes millions of pounds off of zombies, I'm going to hire you as my spin doctor.

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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:42 am

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Blast Cannon wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Blast Cannon wrote:All this constant bringing characters back from the dead. The Japanese shows were effectively populated by intelligent zombies as the main characters.
Well, if kids back then would have just let the characters stay dead, the companies wouldn't have had to keep bringing them back.


If I ever form a company that makes millions of pounds off of zombies, I'm going to hire you as my spin doctor.

"Well YOU ASKED for the zombie apocalypse.."

Thinking about it in a lot of comics, aren't most of them just intelligent zombies? Death just doesn't mean anything in comics and some cartoons (looking at you dragonball) these days.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Duke of Luns » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:40 pm

Blast Cannon wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Blast Cannon wrote:All this constant bringing characters back from the dead. The Japanese shows were effectively populated by intelligent zombies as the main characters.
Well, if kids back then would have just let the characters stay dead, the companies wouldn't have had to keep bringing them back.


If I ever form a company that makes millions of pounds off of zombies, I'm going to hire you as my spin doctor.

"Well YOU ASKED for the zombie apocalypse.."


Firstly, great response, gave me a chuckle :lol: .

But this got me thinking: Why was Optimus Prime brought back in Battlestars? And Mega/Galvatron as well? After all, from my understanding Transformers isn't that big in Japan, and usually targets a younger audience(cause sentient robots are considered child-fare). When you think about it, barring a nod here and there, Takara's Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory were generally stand alone series, existing to sell the current range of toys. If it attracts a new audience great, they didn't really NEED to see the previous series to enjoy the new. If it keeps the current audience, all the better.

And then comes Zone, which begins almost immediately with the 9 evil Destron generals, redesigned versions of past gestalts and commanders. These guys were never meant to have toys(as far as I know), so they could have just gone with brand new characters. However, they didn't, and instead drew on past continuity, which wouldn't necessarily attract new fans to a fading franchise, but maybe entice past fans back.

So my point is, even back then, was Takara trying to target the older, collector style fan like they are now?
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:14 pm

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Duke of Luns wrote:So my point is, even back then, was Takara trying to target the older, collector style fan like they are now?


Like Hasbro with their Powermaster Optimus Prime a few years before? Could very well be that Takara tried enticing the older fans who grew up with the Chou Robot Seimeitai (Super Robot Lifeforms), but they were also walking two roads at the time: Transformers and the Yuusha/Brave series. The Brave series won out in popularity, and Transformers was slowly phased out as a result.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:55 pm

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Duke of Luns wrote:from my understanding Transformers isn't that big in Japan,


Its my understanding that TF's were very big in Japan in the 80s.
season 3 [what we called it] being very popular...again from what I understand.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:11 pm

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Well, regarding the popularity of it in Japan, it was at least popular enough/successful to warrant three more animated series than it got in America.

Though, there is also the notion of how Transformers in Japan is viewed as being for a much younger audience than it is in America, with the Japanese viewing living robots as more attractive to younger children while pilot robots are more appealing to older kids/teenagers. Which is why the G1 cartoon was dubbed into Japanese the way it was, with additional commentary given by the narrator explaining EVERYTHING we see happening onscreen as just about any point that had no dialogue going on, as though the narrator thought the audience was so dumb that they needed a play-by-play of the most obvious of things, making him almost never shut up.
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby Duke of Luns » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:10 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Duke of Luns wrote:So my point is, even back then, was Takara trying to target the older, collector style fan like they are now?


Like Hasbro with their Powermaster Optimus Prime a few years before? Could very well be that Takara tried enticing the older fans who grew up with the Chou Robot Seimeitai (Super Robot Lifeforms), but they were also walking two roads at the time: Transformers and the Yuusha/Brave series. The Brave series won out in popularity, and Transformers was slowly phased out as a result.


I kinda saw Powermaster Prime as Hasbro trying to correct their move of killing Prime in the movie. Since Takara repurposed the mold as Ginrai, I don't think they were banking on nostalgia yet. Also didn't realize the Brave series was at least starting to run alongside Transformers, I thought Transformers ended and Brave was their next step. Gotta see those series someday.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Duke of Luns wrote:from my understanding Transformers isn't that big in Japan,


Its my understanding that TF's were very big in Japan in the 80s.
season 3 [what we called it] being very popular...again from what I understand.


Sabrblade wrote:Well, regarding the popularity of it in Japan, it was at least popular enough/successful to warrant three more animated series than it got in America.


Ah true. Ok, popular enough to warrant continuing the franchise for a few more series, but maybe eventually stagnating to the point it didn't attract enough new fans(as is the case with a lot of franchises), so they went for nostalgia.

And then I forgot that around the same time Europe re-released an assortment of characters from mostly the first two seasons of G1: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Classics_(Europe)

And then there's the Actionmasters, which had quite a few "show accurate" original cast members, and the Classic Pretenders too.

So maybe the reason G1 is referenced and revered so much is because even the end of G1 treated it as something special :KREMZEEK: .

But seriously, I'm now wondering about re-runs. Does Japan usually re-run older shows in syndication? Does Europe?
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Re: Is G1 the best?

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:31 am

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Duke of Luns wrote:But seriously, I'm now wondering about re-runs. Does Japan usually re-run older shows in syndication? Does Europe?


I know Europe did back in the day. Especially Season 2 was re-run in the Netherlands and the UK in 1990, possibly to promote those reissues you mentioned. Even now we re-run a lot of American shows, dating back all the way to 2000. Cartoons, not so much.
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