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Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

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Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby d_sel1 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:56 pm

Motto: "Where is this global warming that scientists talk about this winter?"
Weapon: Neptune Sword
Who would win?

(I will admit that I know only a little about either one of them, but what I do know seems like a promising fantasy battle, and it seem that Master Chief has some mediocre weapon technology for the 2500's)
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Wigglez » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:17 pm

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MC. He has to fight the Covenant while trying to shut down the Halos and and had to deal with the Flood. And now these new aliens... Dredd had to deal with Swat team situation by himself plus robots. I have a question though. Wasn't Halo like a spin-off series of Marathon?
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Shadowman » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:59 pm

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d_sel1 wrote:Master Chief has some mediocre weapon technology for the 2500's)


Can I borrow your time machine?

Wigglez wrote:I have a question though. Wasn't Halo like a spin-off series of Marathon?


Yes. Sort of. Maybe. Halo borrows tons of elements from Marathon, (AI Sciences in particular) but I don't think Bungie has never been entirely clear on whether one is a sequel to the other or not. Bungie is weird like that.

Also, as for the fight, Master Chief. Better gear, better training, better better enhancements. All around better.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby d_sel1 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:23 pm

Motto: "Where is this global warming that scientists talk about this winter?"
Weapon: Neptune Sword
Shadowman wrote:
d_sel1 wrote:Master Chief has some mediocre weapon technology for the 2500's)


Can I borrow your time machine?

Master Chief seems to have lot of standard (21 century?) machine guns and pistols in his arsenal, instead standard plasma weapons/ phasers usually assigned to space faring civilizations of this time. Guns are useful like bow and arrows back in the day, but not many US soldiers shoot people with arrows in modern warfare.

Besides, I will admit I dread first person shooters. All I ever done in first person shooters is die.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Shadowman » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:17 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
d_sel1 wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
d_sel1 wrote:Master Chief has some mediocre weapon technology for the 2500's)


Can I borrow your time machine?


Master Chief seems to have lot of standard (21 century?) machine guns and pistols in his arsenal, instead standard plasma weapons/ phasers usually assigned to space faring civilizations of this time.


Just because they don't use lasers doesn't mean they aren't more advanced. Bullets are effective no matter the decade. In Halo, they just made the bullets bigger and more powerful; the basic pistol from Halo 1 uses 12.7x40mm armor-piercing explosive rounds. (By comparison, the modern M16 assault rifle uses 5.56x45mm rounds)

And by the way, space faring civilizations of this time? You mean, space faring civilizations in speculative fiction, right?

d_sel1 wrote:Guns are useful like bow and arrows back in the day, but not many US soldiers shoot people with arrows in modern warfare.


Right, but still use they use guns, though, so your point kind of falls flat. "It's low-tech because modern military tactics don't use primitive weapons!" Did that make sense to you?
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby d_sel1 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:07 am

Motto: "Where is this global warming that scientists talk about this winter?"
Weapon: Neptune Sword
Shadowman wrote:Just because they don't use lasers doesn't mean they aren't more advanced. Bullets are effective no matter the decade. In Halo, they just made the bullets bigger and more powerful; the basic pistol from Halo 1 uses 12.7x40mm armor-piercing explosive rounds. (By comparison, the modern M16 assault rifle uses 5.56x45mm rounds)

And by the way, space faring civilizations of this time? You mean, space faring civilizations in speculative fiction, right?

d_sel1 wrote:Guns are useful like bow and arrows back in the day, but not many US soldiers shoot people with arrows in modern warfare.


Right, but still use they use guns, though, so your point kind of falls flat. "It's low-tech because modern military tactics don't use primitive weapons!" Did that make sense to you?


Shadowman, a bunch of rednecks could make a higher calibur gun, it just about limiting the recoil :D . Of course, I am going with speculative fiction. However, you can improve most Halo guns by making just by miniturizing JDAM technology. It would stink in a first person shooter, but heck people in 2050's might end up with "smart bullets." Also, you could probably miniturize most "anti-meteoroid" technology that a spaceship needs, and voila you have a nice supply of plasma weapons, phasers, and other future weapons. No army in the 2500's will use bullets if there is better, more effective, reasonally priced alternative.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Shadowman » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:50 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
d_sel1 wrote:Shadowman, a bunch of rednecks could make a higher calibur gun, it just about limiting the recoil :D . Of course, I am going with speculative fiction. However, you can improve most Halo guns by making just by miniturizing JDAM technology. It would stink in a first person shooter, but heck people in 2050's might end up with "smart bullets."


The problem with Smart Bullets is that bullets move way too damn fast to be able to properly recalculate the flight path at any range where you'd actually use a bullet.

d_sel1 wrote:Also, you could probably miniturize most "anti-meteoroid" technology that a spaceship needs, and voila you have a nice supply of plasma weapons, phasers, and other future weapons.


Okay, first off, miniaturizing anti-meteor technology first requires that technology to exist, and it doesn't.

Second, most ships are equipped with MAC guns, big ol' mass accelerators. And they make anything Starfleet is equipped with look like a damn joke. The basic ship-mounted versions fire a 600 ton projectile at 30km/s, and, on average, hit like a 67 kilton warhead, three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima. The Orbital Defense "Super" MACs fire a 3000 ton projectile at 12000km/s. Who needs lasers when you have giant coilguns that hit with enough force to destroy an entire country?

d_sel1 wrote:No army in the 2500's will use bullets if there is better, more effective, reasonally priced alternative.


Once again, can I borrow your time machine? You're taking elements of something that doesn't exist and using it to claim how primitive something else that doesn't exist is. You can't possibly know these things.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby d_sel1 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:13 pm

Motto: "Where is this global warming that scientists talk about this winter?"
Weapon: Neptune Sword
Shadowman wrote:Okay, first off, miniaturizing anti-meteor technology first requires that technology to exist, and it doesn't.

Second, most ships are equipped with MAC guns, big ol' mass accelerators. And they make anything Starfleet is equipped with look like a damn joke. The basic ship-mounted versions fire a 600 ton projectile at 30km/s, and, on average, hit like a 67 kilton warhead, three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima. The Orbital Defense "Super" MACs fire a 3000 ton projectile at 12000km/s. Who needs lasers when you have giant coilguns that hit with enough force to destroy an entire country?

d_sel1 wrote:No army in the 2500's will use bullets if there is better, more effective, reasonally priced alternative.


Once again, can I borrow your time machine? You're taking elements of something that doesn't exist and using it to claim how primitive something else that doesn't exist is. You can't possibly know these things.

I enjoy this part of debate myself, so don't offended Shadowman, I am just want debating some of these arguement in smaller pieces. If you got info I am not aware not (say a societal collapse in the preceding centuries of the Halo universe) my point is wronger than wrong. In the anti-meteoroid debate, I am not talking the big rocks. Anyone who studies instellar travel will know that dust grains become boulders at relativistic speeds. Unless, 1. any warp bubble that a Halo F(aster)T(han)L(ight) ship automatically keep outside particle away or 2. at FTL level particles shrink the faster than C you go, then this is a problem. Maybe, it is MC's shield that evolved from such technolgy, I don't know, but somewhere if this anti-meteoroid technolgy didn't develop, MC would be swiss cheese if wandered too far from home.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Shadowman » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:38 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
1. Within Slipstream Space, Halo's version of FLT travel, the majority of the laws of physics, especially those pertaining to Relativity, do not exist, or do not work the same way as they do in normal space.

2. Master Chief's shields are based on Covenant shield technology, specifically the Elite's personal shields.

3. If you don't know anything about Halo, then you probably shouldn't be arguing against it.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby d_sel1 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:09 pm

Motto: "Where is this global warming that scientists talk about this winter?"
Weapon: Neptune Sword
Shadowman wrote:1. Within Slipstream Space, Halo's version of FLT travel, the majority of the laws of physics, especially those pertaining to Relativity, do not exist, or do not work the same way as they do in normal space.


Now that is a cute monkeywrench! I guess it is way, way better just to ignore physics, than to fake it ala Armageddon.:D
But the weapon arguement was more Dredd and MC being more equal weaponwise than the time disparity should imply. If MC wins via having a bigger guns fine, but a description of MC's guns (Death Battle) floored me.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Wigglez » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:27 pm

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All I have to say is double needler. I hate how Halo 3 made it where you only carry one. I know they made the needler more powerful, but it's not how strong it is. It's based on how many needles are chasing you.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby d_sel1 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:31 pm

Motto: "Where is this global warming that scientists talk about this winter?"
Weapon: Neptune Sword
Shadowman, I need to better illustrate my argument about the uselessness of "primitive" weapons in 2552, I use a story about a Covenant invasion of Antartica in 2013!

Gen Ermey: Soldier did you pack the weapons
Soldier: All weapons accounted for
Gen Ermey: Don't forget the new matchlock muskets and a ****load of musket balls!
Soldier: Sir, we are facing an alien invasion, I think muskets would be inadequate, sir.
Gen Ermey: Maggot! Pizzaro took down the entire Inca empire with lesser weapons. Besides, these are new carbon fiber muskets that fire five faster! Drop down and give me twenty or you will be court martialed!
PS A musket with five time the firing rate is still very useless compared with modern weapons. Also, some of Halo guns might doable in 2012!
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Shadowman » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:05 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
How are you not getting this? You don't know how advanced weapons will be in five hundred years.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby d_sel1 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:44 am

Motto: "Where is this global warming that scientists talk about this winter?"
Weapon: Neptune Sword
Shadowman wrote:How are you not getting this? You don't know how advanced weapons will be in five hundred years.

I going with hypothesis that if this some of these weapons (I mean machine guns, shotgun, and especially that nasty little pistol) are doable in 2012, then in it is probably (but not absolutely) old hat by 2550. No time machine needed :D
Sorry, I kinda on a one track mind on this and have been very curious about this, Shadowman. I also been talking to Halo players from my town. Many of them also are deer hunters, so what they may lack in video game knowledge, they make up in knowledge of weapons (they have plenty of guns per person). I My poll is hardly scientific, but some of them believe that some of the weapons (made of 21 century materials not Halo materials) are somewhat doable (at least by a military). Maybe we're crazy. Even video game blog say that most FPS's (even Halo) underrate shotguns. If I am totally wrong about this, I have been having a great conservation with my friends and acquaintances. Need a gun shop opinion though.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby d_sel1 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:46 am

Motto: "Where is this global warming that scientists talk about this winter?"
Weapon: Neptune Sword
Some extra evidence to support my case.
This is an article by someone discussing weapons on a Halo wiki

http://halofanon.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Cultred/Realism_to_Halo_Weaponry
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Shadowman » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:03 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
By the way, Halo is far from the only Sci-Fi series to not have the humans using guns. Starcraft (Which takes place in 2499) Mass Effect (Late 2100s) and Borderlands (53rd Century) all have laser weapons, but all agree kinetic weapons are just better. (That page also does the math for the Super MAC I mentioned earlier, claiming that a 3000-ton slug traveling at 12000km/s would hit with the force of 7300 gigatons, and a single round would kill every living thing on a planet) In Halo, for the most part, it was meant to make them contrast with the much more technologically advanced yet highly alien Covenant, as well as making them more "familiar" from a technological standpoint.

That said, you still don't know bullets will be outdated in 500 years.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby d_sel1 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:02 pm

Motto: "Where is this global warming that scientists talk about this winter?"
Weapon: Neptune Sword
Shadowman wrote:By the way, Halo is far from the only Sci-Fi series to not have the humans using guns. Starcraft (Which takes place in 2499) Mass Effect (Late 2100s) and Borderlands (53rd Century) all have laser weapons, but all agree kinetic weapons are just better. (That page also does the math for the Super MAC I mentioned earlier, claiming that a 3000-ton slug traveling at 12000km/s would hit with the force of 7300 gigatons, and a single round would kill every living thing on a planet) In Halo, for the most part, it was meant to make them contrast with the much more technologically advanced yet highly alien Covenant, as well as making them more "familiar" from a technological standpoint.

That said, you still don't know bullets will be outdated in 500 years.

I am actually kinda coming toward your point about the bullets, bullets could still be very useful. This is one these conversations where I might change my mind, but I getting more sceptical about the Halo guns themselves. By the way, my pal Darren Seckman had a cool theory theory about the guns, he says in an improptu alien invasion you want to go with a easy, quick to make weapon like a coventional firearm in the 2550s. But, I still have qualms about quality of firearms. It seems like the tech of machine guns in Halo are about seemingly unadvanced as (video) gamers still playing ps 5 and XBOX 4s in 2100, because for last 50 years Sony and Microsoft thought these systems were good enough. Capitalism in gun business alone might lead to nastier guns. I will study your info Shadowman later tonight (I got enjoy these 50+ degree December evenings). I think this debate might have some legs, and some form of compromise position between us might be best answer to our debate.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Shadowman » Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:23 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
From that link I posted:

Unlike Sci Fi and fantasy genres where all manner of exotic weapons are commonplace like lasers, phasers, blasters, lightning guns, plasma cannons, etc, in real life all of them are unnecessary due to one simple unalterable fact: The laws of physics tell us that anything, absolutely anything in the universe can be destroyed if you simply hit it hard enough.


Another advantage of kinetic weapons is the ballistic trajectory, which allows you to arc projectiles over obstacles (which is how mortars and artillery are used). Beam weapons fire straight, meaning you can't target things behind obstructions. This has also been used to great effect by snipers who have, using bullet drop and the environment's wind speed, actually curved bullets into targets behind obstacles.


Long before that, slings, arrows, and early siege weaponry used the same arc to function as an early indirect weapon. They would also force warriors to consider the threat of death raining down on them, which can be devastating for maneuver.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby FortMacs » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:44 am

Weapon: Gatling Cannon
Master Chief all the way.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Nemesis Maximo » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:23 pm

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Dredd. He's pretty much Gestapo BADASS. The chief is just...bad.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Shadowman » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:11 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Nemesis Maximo wrote:Dredd. He's pretty much Gestapo BADASS. The chief is just...bad.


Master Chief takes on entire armies of aliens who all have weapons and technology far more advanced than what he's equipped with, and he wins each time.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby RedArrow » Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:41 pm

Master Chief has superior body armour with regenerative shields
Trained from 5 years old at marine level intensity
biochemical enhancements have made him at least twice as strong as a normal human,
with enhanced reflexes to boot
The Moljnir armour doubled his strength again and made him even faster :-B

Sorry Dredd, you're a badass and all, but whether it's long range combat or hand to hand, you're (eventually) going down
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby shortwave » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:32 pm

Motto: "eagls may soar but weasels dont get sucked in to jet engens"
Weapon: Sub-Machine Gun
Dredd has BOINGGtm and has beeten gods in the past.
pluss he has a chin that takes up 80% of his body.
Thay guy wins.
ps the guy has been shot stabbed electrocuted headbutted crawled threw lava and been on big brother and survived.
Anthrax dont sing about Master chief.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby Shadowman » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:21 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
shortwave wrote:ps the guy has been shot stabbed electrocuted headbutted crawled threw lava and been on big brother and survived.


Master Chief has been on the receiving end of a carpet bombing, nearly boiled alive in his own suit, and dropped from orbit.
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Re: Judge Dredd vs Master Chief

Postby shortwave » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:54 am

Motto: "eagls may soar but weasels dont get sucked in to jet engens"
Weapon: Sub-Machine Gun
still wasnt on reality tv though.
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #90 - Dark Scorponok
Twincast / Podcast #90:
"Dark Scorponok"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Monday, April 7th, 2014