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Delta Magnus wrote:Yeah, this gets the no from me. CW it is.

I'll love to see how this comes out but I will probably not get this either.

Forge on MakeToys, I'm still with you. I've no interest in a few cheap remolds and a cumbersome combined form when there's the potential for an intricate and heroic looking warrior like this guy.

Yeah, I think in some ways I prefer the combining bots to act as shins as here and FP Menasor. It can make for much more stable big bot. And this is looking pretty awesome! It'd likely going to come down to what my cash availability will be when this hits. I am perfectly happy with CW Defensor. But this is ever so tempting...

Agamemnon wrote:Yeah, I think in some ways I prefer the combining bots to act as shins as here and FP Menasor. It can make for much more stable big bot. And this is looking pretty awesome! It'd likely going to come down to what my cash availability will be when this hits. I am perfectly happy with CW Defensor. But this is ever so tempting...

This guy does look great, but assuming he'll be $400 like Quantron... I'm just not willing to make the plunge. Especially if PE releases upgrades for CW Defensor (not that he looks like he needs any)...

On the legs - I really do prefer this sort of formulation. Fansproject's Menasor was really a much better constructed gestalt for the extra support, and I imagine Guardia will also benefit.

Maybe this is nitpicking, but doesn't he look one
hell of a lot bigger than giant? Even bigger than Quantron...

Sorry, the cars mounted on the legs only gets a free pass with motormaster because of the trailer. Im not feeling it for Defensor so I just saved 400 bucks. CW Defensor it is. Lets just hope somebody does a proper Groove so Rook can go swimming with Alpha Bravo.

That's a pretty neat Groove.

Looks unesesarily complicated. Like a Bayformer.

This is not hitting the G1 button for me...He looks good but not very G1 like Giant...

donny1975 wrote:This is not hitting the G1 button for me...He looks good but not very G1 like Giant...

Giant never looked G1 to me. Hercules had more of an IDW Classics feel, whereas Giant was more 'Neo'. To me. If that makes sense.

Hmm, while Groove does seem a little complicated I really like the sleek look he has. The paint really helps the overall appearance and I can't wait to see what the entire team looks like once all is said and done. Really looking forward to the finish product.

After seeing Hasbro's Defensor and now Takara's proper Groove toting Gaurdian, who's still on board for this thing? I'm totally out.

shajaki wrote:After seeing Hasbro's Defensor and now Takara's proper Groove toting Gaurdian, who's still on board for this thing? I'm totally out.

Ive been out since I saw them try to pull that FP menasor crap with cars attached to the shins. The takara groove was just the icing on the cake.

Rated X wrote:Ive been out since I saw them try to pull that FP menasor crap with cars attached to the shins. The takara groove was just the icing on the cake.

I... didn't realize that's actually how the legs combined. I'm not a fan either.

shajaki wrote:

Rated X wrote:Ive been out since I saw them try to pull that FP menasor crap with cars attached to the shins. The takara groove was just the icing on the cake.

I... didn't realize that's actually how the legs combined. I'm not a fan either.

*sigh* No appreciation for good, quality engineering.

NOS wrote:

shajaki wrote:

Rated X wrote:Ive been out since I saw them try to pull that FP menasor crap with cars attached to the shins. The takara groove was just the icing on the cake.

I... didn't realize that's actually how the legs combined. I'm not a fan either.

*sigh* No appreciation for good, quality engineering.

Did I say anything about the quality of the engineering? Pretty much every 3P figure is a marvel in that department.

I'm speaking from personal experience and preference. I own Intimidator, and while it looks very impressive it's overly complicated, fiddly, and aethetically I really did not like the car shin gaurds (like X). One thing HasTak has done right, was returning FUN to combining TF's.

shajaki wrote:

NOS wrote:

shajaki wrote:

Rated X wrote:Ive been out since I saw them try to pull that FP menasor crap with cars attached to the shins. The takara groove was just the icing on the cake.

I... didn't realize that's actually how the legs combined. I'm not a fan either.

*sigh* No appreciation for good, quality engineering.

Did I say anything about the quality of the engineering? Pretty much every 3P figure is a marvel in that department.

I'm speaking from personal experience and preference. I own Intimidator, and while it looks very impressive it's overly complicated, fiddly, and aethetically I really did not like the car shin gaurds (like X). One thing HasTak has done right, was returning FUN to combining TF's.

Fun like Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers Neighborhood.

NOS wrote:Fun like Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers Neighborhood.

So, you feel CW is for infants?

shajaki wrote:

NOS wrote:Fun like Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers Neighborhood.

So, you feel CW is for infants?

Has/Tak managed to take a fun concept and make it lukewarm. Most of what they've shown is bland and boring. I don't know, maybe it's a sign of old age or perhaps I'm just spoiled by 3rds. Regardless, the more I see of CW, the less interested I am. Maketoys give us sleek and imaginative figures which I am generally excited about transforming, posing, and displaying. Meanwhile Has/Tak keeps giving us figures which look like chunks of plastic with a "step 1: flip this tab, step 2: unpeg limbs, step 3: enjoy figure" simplicity.

NOS wrote:

shajaki wrote:

NOS wrote:Fun like Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers Neighborhood.

So, you feel CW is for infants?

Has/Tak managed to take a fun concept and make it lukewarm. Most of what they've shown is bland and boring. I don't know, maybe it's a sign of old age or perhaps I'm just spoiled by 3rds. Regardless, the more I see of CW, the less interested I am. Maketoys give us sleek and imaginative figures which I am generally excited about transforming, posing, and displaying. Meanwhile Has/Tak keeps giving us figures which look like chunks of plastic with a "step 1: flip this tab, step 2: unpeg limbs, step 3: enjoy figure" simplicity.

Ahh, but the true engineering and design marvel is within that simplicity.
--each mold has to have a convincing arm and leg mode
--each leg mode MUST be the exact height as all the other figures and their leg modes
--each leg mode MUST be capable of being a load bearing leg
--each arm mode must be relatively close to being the same length as the other figures and their arm length
--each limb must be compatible with the hand/foot piece

I honestly think that since they're able to pull it off, Hasbro is doing a fantastic job.

NOS wrote:

shajaki wrote:

NOS wrote:

shajaki wrote:

Rated X wrote:Ive been out since I saw them try to pull that FP menasor crap with cars attached to the shins. The takara groove was just the icing on the cake.

I... didn't realize that's actually how the legs combined. I'm not a fan either.

*sigh* No appreciation for good, quality engineering.

Did I say anything about the quality of the engineering? Pretty much every 3P figure is a marvel in that department.

I'm speaking from personal experience and preference. I own Intimidator, and while it looks very impressive it's overly complicated, fiddly, and aethetically I really did not like the car shin gaurds (like X). One thing HasTak has done right, was returning FUN to combining TF's.

Fun like Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers Neighborhood.

There is nothing "fun" about FP Motormaster. It is the most complex, fiddly, scary, mind boggling 3rd party puzzleformer ever created. The smaller FP limb bots arent much easier. I turned them into Menasor, put him on the shelf and havent touched him since. I also own Quantron which was more straight foward but sill no walk in the park. (Especially Nosecone and Afterburner) At least with Quantron they got rid of the annoying shin covers which plaged Intimidator. (Fansproject and Maketoys are sister companies - FP Breakdown and Maketoys Strafe even share the same fist mold/design) So I was not expecting Guardia to bring back the shin guards. I thought that was a one time design justified by Motormaster having to have a trailer. TFC pulled it off without shin guards on their Defensor. But honestly, Hasbro has done the vehicle combiners justice. For the most part, the individual bots are finally cartoon accurate, which really bugged me about the FP Stunticons ans some of the MT Technobots. I really dig the cartoon accuracy Hasbro has brought back that FP and MT shy away from for whatever reason with their combiners. Im buying both the Hasbro and Takara versions of all the CW teams. Takara to display the individual bots and Hasbro to display as combiners. Sure the hands, feet, and Menasor's head suck, but thats what we have Perfect Effect, Renderform, and Nonnef for. Ive gone all in on add on sets and extra parts. CW has brought fun back to combiners. The only CW combiner I wont be buying is Devastator because the giant size flat out sucks in my opinion. If a KO company downsizes it, Ill be all over it if they match the quality or improve the flaws. Until then Hercules is my favorite Devy (I also have Yellow Giant for my G2 shelf) But Hasbro is making me quite happy. Im very excited about Hasbro Bruticus. I have a feeling he will be the definitave CW combiner.

Mkall wrote:

NOS wrote:

shajaki wrote:

NOS wrote:Fun like Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers Neighborhood.

So, you feel CW is for infants?

Has/Tak managed to take a fun concept and make it lukewarm. Most of what they've shown is bland and boring. I don't know, maybe it's a sign of old age or perhaps I'm just spoiled by 3rds. Regardless, the more I see of CW, the less interested I am. Maketoys give us sleek and imaginative figures which I am generally excited about transforming, posing, and displaying. Meanwhile Has/Tak keeps giving us figures which look like chunks of plastic with a "step 1: flip this tab, step 2: unpeg limbs, step 3: enjoy figure" simplicity.

Ahh, but the true engineering and design marvel is within that simplicity.
--each mold has to have a convincing arm and leg mode
--each leg mode MUST be the exact height as all the other figures and their leg modes
--each leg mode MUST be capable of being a load bearing leg
--each arm mode must be relatively close to being the same length as the other figures and their arm length
--each limb must be compatible with the hand/foot piece

I honestly think that since they're able to pull it off, Hasbro is doing a fantastic job.

Yeah, I can see where using standard measurements would be a challenging task for Has/Tak to undertake . . .

Are you serious, Mkall? I'm not trying to start anything, but Devastator looks like he has phocomelia and had his head shrunk in the Amazon. I suspect they aren't putting in as much effort as you're giving them credit for . . . especially when 3rds are still having to fix the figures Has/Tak is pushing out.

NOS wrote:Yeah, I can see where using standard measurements would be a challenging task for Has/Tak to undertake . . .

Are you serious, Mkall? I'm not trying to start anything, but Devastator looks like he has phocomelia and had his head shrunk in the Amazon. I suspect they aren't putting in as much effort as you're giving them credit for . . . especially when 3rds are still having to fix the figures Has/Tak is pushing out.

Not at all. I'm saying that simplicity doesn't always equal bad. And that Hasbro's goal at a cohesive line is a pretty good one. I'm OK with HasTak's Superion and Defensor (although Menasor's another story). I probably would be ok with them with their unaltered forms, however I will be getting the upgrade kits for them.

I am saying that over 1.5 hours taken to transform/assemble MakeToys Computron vs 20 mins to transform/assemble HasTak's Defensor seriously makes me wonder if I can support 3rd party over-engineered combiners anymore.