Counterpunch wrote:I really dislike the written fiction for the EU.
It does so many things that irritate me in regards to fiction writing, especially in many of the ways it attempts to be clever or fresh by showing that "the forces of evil really aren't all that evil" and "the Jedi are akin to a religious institution so they must be corrupt internally". For me, there are just no surprises. It never seems clever and it never seems inspired.
I know. I'm stepping on a LOT of toes here. I know that people like this stuff (I think they HAVE to like it otherwise there's no Star Wars storytelling, so what choice do they have?) All the same, too much of the EU rubs me the wrong way. Then, when they DO something surprising...its not something I can enjoy in the fiction (RE: Chewbacca's death).
So, in summary...good. I'm glad some more of the EU is over written by official Lucas materials.
I know some of you feel really strongly on the SW EU stuff. I'm not trying to debate you. I know I'm shortchanging the body of work. All the same, it's an issue of preference for me and I just don't like it.
Slayershoop wrote:Now, without going into any great detail, she portrays the Jedi as a somewhat arrogant and jaded organization that look down upon the clones, and the clones are the jedi's slave-victims.
Slayershoop wrote:The clone commandos (bred with more personality than your standard clone) were trained for the most part by Mandalorians, most notably, Kal Skirata. Long story short, he encourages the clones to be their own person, and many settle down and have families. (If you want to know the whole story, read the books)
Slayershoop wrote:The Mandolorians are portrayed as a ancient, proud race, with values like family (not limited to bloodline) and honor. A tough race with a planet similar to earth, with the only real technology being their armor. They also are not really the mercenaries that they always are portrayed as, sure a lot of them are, but their planet and their people come first.
Slayershoop wrote:The thing that makes them so interesting to other factions is their fighting ability, and their metal, which with the right tempering, is resistant to blasters and lightsabers.
Slayershoop wrote:Since this canon outweighs books, it is considered what actually happened.
Slayershoop wrote:The Mandalorians are now portrayed as a pacifist race (might I say in pretty much direct contradiction with what has been established), living above a uninhabitable Mandalore. Led by a dutchess, they are portrayed as more like Naboo than anything.
Slayershoop wrote:Karen Traviss of course took exception to the fact that all of her work was basically rendered useless and promptly left Star Wars.
Slayershoop wrote:Anakin having scars before the battle that he got them in
Slayershoop wrote:Yeah, Chewie dying pissed me off.
Slayershoop wrote:They have also over-used the Skywalkers IMO, when they don't focus on them, it can be pretty good.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:
Which was of course one of the ways she knows nothing about the franchise. The Jedi showed more respect for the Clones than the Clones showed for themselves.
They were bred with a 20 year lifespan.
They're adrenaline-based thrill-killers. Look up the Mandalorian Wars. That sure wasn't for honor or pride, It was because they really really wanted to fight the Republic and the Outer Rim had to suffer for it. As for their only tech being armor, look up the Basilisk War Droid.
Jango's wasn't resistent to lightsabers.
Yep, that's how it works.
Close. The pacifist faction is one of many. They got to power by reasoning if the Mandalorians don't sit down and shut up, the Jedi were going to curbstomp them just like Revan did.
Which is hypocritical, seeing as she spent much of her time disregarded the work of everyone else, culminating in the death of Mara Jade.
He would have gotten them before the Battle of Christophsis, which would be the earliest in the series chronologically.
Dude, Chewbacca died like a badass. That moon was bearing down on him and he just stood there screaming at it. Probably the Wookiee equivalent of "You think I'm afraid of you?! I'm Chewbacca, you're just a stupid moon! Bring it on!"
Well the Skywalkers ARE the main characters. Most fiction tends to focus on it's main characters.
Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.
I don't know about Quinlan Vos, but I think Rahm Kota is a complete moron. Starkiller could have ended the Empire right there and then and Kota stopped him. Nevermind that Palpatine killed Starkiller almost immediately after that and the Civil War raged for another six years costing countless lives and the destruction of Alderaan, because one idiot Jedi thought they shouldn't kill the most evil and powerful bastard the Galaxy has ever seen.
Cyberstrike wrote:Shadowman wrote:Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.
I don't know about Quinlan Vos, but I think Rahm Kota is a complete moron. Starkiller could have ended the Empire right there and then and Kota stopped him. Nevermind that Palpatine killed Starkiller almost immediately after that and the Civil War raged for another six years costing countless lives and the destruction of Alderaan, because one idiot Jedi thought they shouldn't kill the most evil and powerful bastard the Galaxy has ever seen.
IMHO I think Kota wanted to kill Palpatine himself and he was mad that he couldn't do it, because he was blind and cut off from the Force.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:Cyberstrike wrote:Shadowman wrote:Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.
I don't know about Quinlan Vos, but I think Rahm Kota is a complete moron. Starkiller could have ended the Empire right there and then and Kota stopped him. Nevermind that Palpatine killed Starkiller almost immediately after that and the Civil War raged for another six years costing countless lives and the destruction of Alderaan, because one idiot Jedi thought they shouldn't kill the most evil and powerful bastard the Galaxy has ever seen.
IMHO I think Kota wanted to kill Palpatine himself and he was mad that he couldn't do it, because he was blind and cut off from the Force.
He stopped Starkiller because Starkiller was about to kill Palpatine out of anger. In any case, Kota was an idiot who screwed the Galaxy into the Galactic Civil War, doing the exact same thing Anakin did immediately before Order 66. (Well, okay, he didn't cut anyone's arm off, but the rest pretty closely mimics the lead-in to the Purge)
Shadowman wrote:As for Republic Commando, while I haven't read it, apparently it's been set in stone that Sev dies before the invasion of Kashyyyk and then Scorch becomes an angry jerk. but the problem was that the game never actually said Sev died, they just lost contact. And then they were ordered to go back to help with the Invasion! It would have been great setup to find Sev, rescue him, and NOT ruin Delta's two best characters at once.
Chaoslock wrote:Well, I literally grew up reading Star Wars books, so the Expanded Universe is more part of my view as anything. I didn't read much from Traviss until her Legacy books, and I like her portrayal of the mandalorians as much as the Kotor-time portrayal.
Also, I like NJO and Legacy - it finally feels like a serious series, not Thrackan chasing the Solo kids while you can hear the Looney Tunes' music, or jedis getting away with wiping out solar systems.
The majority of Clone Wars is a pile of slag, and I'd rather not take it as any part of canon.
Slayershoop wrote:Shadowman wrote:As for Republic Commando, while I haven't read it, apparently it's been set in stone that Sev dies before the invasion of Kashyyyk and then Scorch becomes an angry jerk. but the problem was that the game never actually said Sev died, they just lost contact. And then they were ordered to go back to help with the Invasion! It would have been great setup to find Sev, rescue him, and NOT ruin Delta's two best characters at once.
Ah yes, Sev is missing in action in the aftermath of the Battle of Kashyyyk, with Walon Vau actively looking for him.
It's not just Scorch, all of the original Kamino clones are suffering from PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) and just react differently.
If I recall correctly, what set Scorch off is the local militia opposing the Republic bombing the mess hall of the Republic base, and Scorch saw a clone's head get sliced in half by a meal tray. He proceded to get really pissed and volunteer to clean the house the rebels were hiding in.
He killed all of them and spit on their dead bodies, afterwards, Etain starts counseling him and the other commandos.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and he kinda goes back to normal after they escape from the newly formed Empire and start to live on Mandalore.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:Slayershoop wrote:Shadowman wrote:As for Republic Commando, while I haven't read it, apparently it's been set in stone that Sev dies before the invasion of Kashyyyk and then Scorch becomes an angry jerk. but the problem was that the game never actually said Sev died, they just lost contact. And then they were ordered to go back to help with the Invasion! It would have been great setup to find Sev, rescue him, and NOT ruin Delta's two best characters at once.
Ah yes, Sev is missing in action in the aftermath of the Battle of Kashyyyk, with Walon Vau actively looking for him.
It's not just Scorch, all of the original Kamino clones are suffering from PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) and just react differently.
If I recall correctly, what set Scorch off is the local militia opposing the Republic bombing the mess hall of the Republic base, and Scorch saw a clone's head get sliced in half by a meal tray. He proceded to get really pissed and volunteer to clean the house the rebels were hiding in.
He killed all of them and spit on their dead bodies, afterwards, Etain starts counseling him and the other commandos.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and he kinda goes back to normal after they escape from the newly formed Empire and start to live on Mandalore.
Huh, the way I heard it, he remained consistently pissed that they left Sev behind, and constantly replayed Sev's last message in his helmet.
Still, saving Sev would have been a great opening for a sequel to Republic Commando.
Slayershoop wrote:Shadowman wrote:Cyberstrike wrote:Shadowman wrote:Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.
I don't know about Quinlan Vos, but I think Rahm Kota is a complete moron. Starkiller could have ended the Empire right there and then and Kota stopped him. Nevermind that Palpatine killed Starkiller almost immediately after that and the Civil War raged for another six years costing countless lives and the destruction of Alderaan, because one idiot Jedi thought they shouldn't kill the most evil and powerful bastard the Galaxy has ever seen.
IMHO I think Kota wanted to kill Palpatine himself and he was mad that he couldn't do it, because he was blind and cut off from the Force.
He stopped Starkiller because Starkiller was about to kill Palpatine out of anger. In any case, Kota was an idiot who screwed the Galaxy into the Galactic Civil War, doing the exact same thing Anakin did immediately before Order 66. (Well, okay, he didn't cut anyone's arm off, but the rest pretty closely mimics the lead-in to the Purge)
Totally agree, Kota pretty much screwed everything up and then expected that everyone was fine with him.
Anyway, I'm interested to hear Cyberstrike's opinion on the original matter.
But yeah, I hate Kota >.>
Cyberstrike wrote:Slayershoop wrote:Shadowman wrote:Cyberstrike wrote:Shadowman wrote:Slayershoop wrote:However, there are a few jedi who hated the clones with a passion, Kota and Vos being prominent ones.
I don't know about Quinlan Vos, but I think Rahm Kota is a complete moron. Starkiller could have ended the Empire right there and then and Kota stopped him. Nevermind that Palpatine killed Starkiller almost immediately after that and the Civil War raged for another six years costing countless lives and the destruction of Alderaan, because one idiot Jedi thought they shouldn't kill the most evil and powerful bastard the Galaxy has ever seen.
IMHO I think Kota wanted to kill Palpatine himself and he was mad that he couldn't do it, because he was blind and cut off from the Force.
He stopped Starkiller because Starkiller was about to kill Palpatine out of anger. In any case, Kota was an idiot who screwed the Galaxy into the Galactic Civil War, doing the exact same thing Anakin did immediately before Order 66. (Well, okay, he didn't cut anyone's arm off, but the rest pretty closely mimics the lead-in to the Purge)
Totally agree, Kota pretty much screwed everything up and then expected that everyone was fine with him.
Anyway, I'm interested to hear Cyberstrike's opinion on the original matter.
But yeah, I hate Kota >.>
It's pretty much the same as Shadowman's I just think Kota is still bitter old drunken former Jedi would wanted to kill the Emerpror and/or Vader for personal glory.
Skyfire77 wrote:Wow, I stopped reading the EU books right after Vision of the Future, and it looks like I got out at the right time. 'Course, I also stopped caring about "canon" after TPM came out and invalidated a good part of the EU.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Skyfire77 wrote:Wow, I stopped reading the EU books right after Vision of the Future, and it looks like I got out at the right time. 'Course, I also stopped caring about "canon" after TPM came out and invalidated a good part of the EU.
Shadowman wrote:Skyfire77 wrote:Wow, I stopped reading the EU books right after Vision of the Future, and it looks like I got out at the right time. 'Course, I also stopped caring about "canon" after TPM came out and invalidated a good part of the EU.
There's only two rules on Star Wars canon:
1. At least try to respect the work of everyone else.
2. Rule #1 does not apply to George Lucas; it's his universe and he can contradict anything he wants.
Slayershoop wrote:And look where #2 got us... *cough* Phantom Menace *cough*
Traviss just about raped #1, but other authors should have more priority than Lucas, cause IMO, they can write and he can't, but he created it so nothing I can do about it.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:Slayershoop wrote:And look where #2 got us... *cough* Phantom Menace *cough*
Traviss just about raped #1, but other authors should have more priority than Lucas, cause IMO, they can write and he can't, but he created it so nothing I can do about it.
No, they shouldn't have priority over Lucas. He created Star Wars, it's his universe, and we're all just guests. How would you feel if you created some great, big, multifaceted universe, but it was decided because you weren't a good enough writer, you were no longer allowed to decide how your universe should play out, and it was left in the hands of what amounts to fanfiction?
In any case, no one can decide to undermine G-Canon seeing as how he owns everything Star Wars.
Slayershoop wrote:The man just kind R-aped SW with Phantom Menace
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:Slayershoop wrote:The man just kind R-aped SW with Phantom Menace
No, he didn't. He implemented some bad ideas (Jar Jar, too much talking, Jake Lloyd, even though Haley Joel Osment, an actually TALENTED child actor, applied for the role) but also some really, really good ones. (Improved Lightsaber combat, fleshing out the Old Republic and the Jedi Order, Mace Windu)
Attack of the Clones was almost exactly the same, but more extreme. What was worse in PM was even more horrible in AotC (I've seen Hayden Christensen do genuinely good dramatic acting, which confuses the hell out of me) and what was awesome was even more awesome. In particular, it kicked off the Clone Wars, which, and I don't care what you think, is my favorite Era in Star Wars. It also brought Aayla Secura into G-Canon.
Hell, the only way they could have made the Clone Wars better is by somehow bringing Revan back to life. And I wouldn't put it past him. The Old Republic MMO is making some weird implications about what went on after he left for the Unknown Regions.
Slayershoop wrote:Ah yes, TOR, I don't know what to think of what that's all about.
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
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