Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Autobot032 wrote:And let's not forget... Hasbro, in the past, has told us time and again that we, the fans, are not their main focus and never have been. That we make up barely 10% of their sales (I had once heard it was closer to 7, maybe 8%) and when you keep hearing that, you can't help but take it as "Oh...okay. Well, alright then." 3rd parties come along and say they'll take our business, well of course a fan wants to hear that. Are they using that to get to our wallets? Sure, but the 3rd parties never promised otherwise, either. They never claimed they were doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

When Hasbro was marketing the products for the Transformers 2007 film, their sales brochures said fans at that time made up 15% of their sales which is still a significant number of fans. Anyone who says the number was significantly less than that is playing the old phone game where information is being told incorrectly. Keep in mind that those brochures were written before the Classics line launched. All you have to do is look at what Hasbro is doing with Generations and Combiner Wars, and Takara with Masterpiece, to realize that we must be a greater number than that now, not to mention the sheer number of collector oriented products that have come out from Hasbro in the past 8 years since that 15% number was shared publicly.

Autobot032 wrote:

Seibertron wrote:It's sad to see so many fans staunchly defending 3rd party products. What's even more bizarre to me is that many of you think you have a right to those products. It's odd that it's so black and white to myself and to others yet so muddied for everyone else. The "as long as I get what I want to get regardless of how I get it" attitude that is so prevalent amongst 3rd party collectors baffles me.

You know what baffles me? That you (and others who share your opinion) feel you have the right to judge your fellow fans and collectors because they do things differently from you. It's sad to see a fan decry 3rd party, and stop promoting it, but continues to keep the galleries of past 3rd party products alive. I'd think if one were to truly take a stand against 3rd parties, they'd do it in whole, not just part of the way. Let me make it clear: This is not a dig, this is not an attack, it's pointing out a hypocrisy that makes zero sense and has frustrated me and many (I do mean many) others.

Yet, you and others of the same mindset can sit there and call what we do sad and bizarre and entitled. We're all sad, bizarre and entitled, even you. The majority of us are adults either living with a significant other, or a family member and we have more toys than most stores. We watch cartoons, we watch movies based on cartoons, we read comics based on toys and cartoons. We even wear apparel and modify our bodies to show that we do just that. But, instead of trying to make others feel bad about this, why not embrace it? The world *IS* weird and we're a part of this world. We should embrace our weirdness, follow what makes us happy. And we should do it without judgment of any kind.

It seems what I wrote didn't convey my thoughts properly as what I wrote appears to have been misconstrued. My usage of the word "sad" was used as a synonym for "depressing" or "a bummer" or "disappointing" ... not as a sarcastic, demeaning or angry term. After reading your reaction, I should have wrote "It's disappointing to see so many fans staunchly defending 3rd party products." instead of with the word sad. I wasn't judging anyone, nor was I making any statement about anyone being weird.

That's one long response. 3rd parties have their purpose. Answer the fans needs that Hasbro won't make. I'd prefer first party but on certain occassions, I'd bite.

Props indeed for RB and Whirl. Saved me a lot over the 3r party version of the former. Btw, also purchased myself a not Broadside. But if a cheaper first party alternative is available, I'll go for 1st party. KOs, now that's a different animal.

But shouldn't this be about Exhaust and flabbergasted the fans in the continental United States are becaus eof this very asinine ruling?

fenrir72 wrote:But shouldn't this be about Exhaust and flabbergasted the fans in the continental United States are becaus eof this very asinine ruling?

It should, but it started from a comment from Seibertron regarding PM's lawyers gaining near-instant compliance and a parallel to Hasbro's lawyers doing the same to 3P companies.

I'm not going to quote and waste space. I don't judge, I just don't agree and choose to vote with my dollar. In order for Stacks to be ditched it had to be purchased again, still taking away purchases from the IP holder. The concept is very well protected in video media.
I agree with PM and Has/Tak decision to clean their hands on this. PM did Has/Tak a favor, albeit protecting themselves at the same time. This is no different than us having to wait years for a VW Bumblebee. Proper licensing was not obtained, nor was it legal in the first place. The Marlboro usage flew back in the diaclone days, but that was a different time. I'm not against 3rd party add ons, reprolabels are a great answer to the whole Exhaust issue. Furthermore, I do hope to see an MP Jazz and would rather create or purchase Martini labels and apply myself than Has/Tak go through this again...it wasn't a problem with binaltech.

Autobot032 wrote:
There are many items that 3rd party produces that require the HasTak original item in a clear-cut manner. The DMY Pharonic kit for PRID Megatron, for example. It's a bunch of pieces in a box, those pieces clearly need the Hasbro figure for them to work.

The Perfect Effect Menasor and Superion add-on kits, you absolutely need the Hasbro product to make these pieces work. They're useless otherwise. As I said, that set is getting me to consider buying Hasbro's Menasor, and I already have a great Menasor (FP's) in my collection.

Those are just two very good examples and proof that you can support 3rd party without hurting Hasbro's bottom line and not be a traitor. Reprolabels prints out sticker sheets with official Hasbro logos slapped all over them, all the time and nobody bats an eye.

Doesn't matter that there are plenty of Accesory packs out there. Because of how close to Hasbro Seibertron.com has gotten, The Website cannot risk an illusion of 3P support lest it undermines Seib.com's reputation with Hasbro. Their unnofical Press people now, and Cherrypicking does not fly, in the same way that Hasbro can't simply let some trademark infringements or Intellectual Property infringements get past them and pursue others, because in a legality sense, it creates a weakness in the defense. (Plus Seib's personal bias.)

It bugs me, cause I'm not on any other Transformers fansites, but because of the stance that Seibertron has to/chooses to, I do miss out on the fun add-ons like Combiner accesories, or Generations Hoist's wings. But that's the neatur eof the game and I don't see why its always such a drawn out topic?

And personally, the 3P figs are all way outpriced to what I want to spend, so unless its a fig I now for sure I won't get from Hasbro, such as a good Omega Supreme (and evenethen I passed beacause of Price) I avoid the full on figures. Wth one exception, I might talk myself into the 3P Groove that turns into a Didge Tomahawk, because that's a personal favorite motorcycle: Here, let's strap two wheels and a seat to a VIPER ENGINE. This cylinder is for the weight of the bike, this cylinder is for the weight fo the rider. Those other 8 cylinders? That's because YEHAW!

SkyWarpt wrote:I'm not going to quote and waste space. I don't judge, I just don't agree and choose to vote with my dollar. In order for Stacks to be ditched it had to be purchased again, still taking away purchases from the IP holder. The concept is very well protected in video media.
I agree with PM and Has/Tak decision to clean their hands on this. PM did Has/Tak a favor, albeit protecting themselves at the same time. This is no different than us having to wait years for a VW Bumblebee. Proper licensing was not obtained, nor was it legal in the first place. The Marlboro usage flew back in the diaclone days, but that was a different time. I'm not against 3rd party add ons, reprolabels are a great answer to the whole Exhaust issue. Furthermore, I do hope to see an MP Jazz and would rather create or purchase Martini labels and apply myself than Has/Tak go through this again...it wasn't a problem with binaltech.

Reprolabels isn't touching Exhaust SW. You'll need to try your luck with the so called Asian "official" franchised Wheeljack version 2 decal set.

shajaki wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:With Exhaust being released I guess I should get around to opening Wheeljack...

How do you reveiw stuff still in the box?

"It's A Kind Of Magic"

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

shajaki wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:With Exhaust being released I guess I should get around to opening Wheeljack...

How do you reveiw stuff still in the box?

"It's A Kind Of Magic"

Highlander reference ftw!

Flashwave wrote:It bugs me, cause I'm not on any other Transformers fansites, but because of the stance that Seibertron has to/chooses to, I do miss out on the fun add-ons like Combiner accesories, or Generations Hoist's wings. But that's the neatur eof the game and I don't see why its always such a drawn out topic?

Why are you missing out? We still have the 3P forums for those things to be discussed, they just don't get newsed.

Autobot032 wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

shajaki wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:With Exhaust being released I guess I should get around to opening Wheeljack...

How do you reveiw stuff still in the box?

"It's A Kind Of Magic"

Highlander reference ftw!

Well it was more a Queen reference at the time... I gotta say seeing Exhaust in hand it really looks good, although I'm concerned that I saw blue tinted, clear plastic in the foot joints that have to bend at two points. Those might break over time.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

shajaki wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:With Exhaust being released I guess I should get around to opening Wheeljack...

How do you reveiw stuff still in the box?

"It's A Kind Of Magic"

Highlander reference ftw!

Well it was more a Queen reference at the time... I gotta say seeing Exhaust in hand it really looks good, although I'm concerned that I saw blue tinted, clear plastic in the foot joints that have to bend at two points. Those might break over time.

Yeeeeeuck... I hate it when they use translucent plastic on joints.

Got an email this morning from Nippon-Yasan saying that exhaust was available for the bargain basement price of 16,000 yen .

LOST Cybertronian wrote:Got an email this morning from Nippon-Yasan saying that exhaust was available for the bargain basement price of 16,000 yen .

I saw that too! Btw, they just posted the font "Masterpiece" and no picture. Retailing at the equivalent $ 130 +

fenrir72 wrote:

LOST Cybertronian wrote:Got an email this morning from Nippon-Yasan saying that exhaust was available for the bargain basement price of 16,000 yen .

I saw that too! Btw, they just posted the font "Masterpiece" and no picture. Retailing at the equivalent $ 130 +

Dey out dey minez...

Seriously though, that's a ridiculous price and they know it. I can foresee Exhaust becoming one very expensive MP grail for a lot of collectors. I'll bet he'll be worth half a grand a few years down the road.

Autobot032 wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

LOST Cybertronian wrote:Got an email this morning from Nippon-Yasan saying that exhaust was available for the bargain basement price of 16,000 yen .

I saw that too! Btw, they just posted the font "Masterpiece" and no picture. Retailing at the equivalent $ 130 +

Dey out dey minez...

Seriously though, that's a ridiculous price and they know it. I can foresee Exhaust becoming one very expensive MP grail for a lot of collectors. I'll bet he'll be worth half a grand a few years down the road.

I almost feel like I should have bought two, just to store one away for that sort of thing. But I just don't want to be a neckbeard.

sol magnus wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

LOST Cybertronian wrote:Got an email this morning from Nippon-Yasan saying that exhaust was available for the bargain basement price of 16,000 yen .

I saw that too! Btw, they just posted the font "Masterpiece" and no picture. Retailing at the equivalent $ 130 +

Dey out dey minez...

Seriously though, that's a ridiculous price and they know it. I can foresee Exhaust becoming one very expensive MP grail for a lot of collectors. I'll bet he'll be worth half a grand a few years down the road.

I almost feel like I should have bought two, just to store one away for that sort of thing. But I just don't want to be a neckbeard.

Neckbeard? To paraphrase Scourge..........."No need to be insulting"

fenrir72 wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

LOST Cybertronian wrote:Got an email this morning from Nippon-Yasan saying that exhaust was available for the bargain basement price of 16,000 yen .

I saw that too! Btw, they just posted the font "Masterpiece" and no picture. Retailing at the equivalent $ 130 +

Dey out dey minez...

Seriously though, that's a ridiculous price and they know it. I can foresee Exhaust becoming one very expensive MP grail for a lot of collectors. I'll bet he'll be worth half a grand a few years down the road.

I almost feel like I should have bought two, just to store one away for that sort of thing. But I just don't want to be a neckbeard.

Neckbeard? To paraphrase Scourge..........."No need to be insulting"

Ha, indeed. Guess that makes me a neckbeard.

I buy two of every MP release (and in the case of Takara MP10, it may end up being 3), for a couple reasons:

1. I think it will be more expensive down the road to backtrack should one break, experience significant wear, or sun damage, etc., and I like to have a replacement at the ready should I need it.

2. I'm also a MISB collector, and it gives me a (false) sense of security to have a pristine one stored away, untouched by human hands.

This is by no means sustainable for most, or for me for that matter. All it means is that I'm a crazy person, and apparently, a neckbeard.



That all said, I'm a bit anxious since I was only able to put in an order for 1 Exhaust before preorders were removed (I normally try and a get a 'Mint Box' grade one from American retailers when these things go on sale).

Thanks for getting the topic back on track after my minor derailment last night. Also good to see everyone passionately discussing their perspectives on these matters regardless of what side of the fence each of us are on.

Game On!

megatronus wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

LOST Cybertronian wrote:Got an email this morning from Nippon-Yasan saying that exhaust was available for the bargain basement price of 16,000 yen .

I saw that too! Btw, they just posted the font "Masterpiece" and no picture. Retailing at the equivalent $ 130 +

Dey out dey minez...

Seriously though, that's a ridiculous price and they know it. I can foresee Exhaust becoming one very expensive MP grail for a lot of collectors. I'll bet he'll be worth half a grand a few years down the road.

I almost feel like I should have bought two, just to store one away for that sort of thing. But I just don't want to be a neckbeard.

Neckbeard? To paraphrase Scourge..........."No need to be insulting"

Ha, indeed. Guess that makes me a neckbeard.

I buy two of every MP release (and in the case of Takara MP10, it may end up being 3), for a couple reasons:

1. I think it will be more expensive down the road to backtrack should one break, experience significant wear, or sun damage, etc., and I like to have a replacement at the ready should I need it.

2. I'm also a MISB collector, and it gives me a (false) sense of security to have a pristine one stored away, untouched by human hands.

This is by no means sustainable for most, or for me for that matter. All it means is that I'm a crazy person, and apparently, a neckbeard.



That all said, I'm a bit anxious since I was only able to put in an order for 1 Exhaust before preorders were removed (I normally try and a get a 'Mint Box' grade one from American retailers when these things go on sale).

Guys, please. Allow me to clarify.

By neckbeard, I mean somebody who buys extras solely to "invest" in them by marking them up to absurd prices via aftermarket speculation.

I simply can't afford to buy multiples for my own collection, but I wish I could (certainly for some...the white ones especially). In a perfect world I would have 3 each. One to display in robot mode, one in alternate mode and one more stored mint in package.

My neckbeard crack was strictly referencing profiteers, which I guess I'm being judgemental about.

Hey, let's talk about Exhaust here! I got mine in today from HLJ, who shipped this thing out lightning fast.



Box is what you've seen pics of already, what about what's inside?



Exhaust comes with a bunch of accessories. You once again get two rear-view mirrors as was the case with Wheeljack. Additionally, Exhaust includes two shoulder mounted missile launchers, the "Immobilizer" device, and his "Gadget Gun" which is the same gun that came with Wheeljack. There's also the collector card, which is sometimes a run of the mill, boring kind of thing not for me, but the art on this one is spectacular.



How cool does Industrial Espionage sound? Cool enough to be a punk and/or ska band, that's for sure.

The car mode is cool, even without the paint that was originally intended for the front fenders. If you miss it that bad, they cut it out in a straight line pattern on those parts, so painting won't be too bad - except for matching reds, which is darn near impossible-impossible-impossible!



Don't think that every reference to Legal Adult Activities for consenting Americans over the age of 18 that have read all appropriate surgeon general's warnings were removed though. There's definitely some tongue-in-cheek stuff going on with this guy.



The launchers that were mentioned earlier can actually combine to both fit in place in the car's "Attack Mode", thanks to a molded in spot on one of them for the other's peg.



Also, in case you were wondering, it really is called the "Gadget Gun". Go go Gadget Cig:cough:aret:cough:tes!



There isn't much to say about the transformation that wasn't said at the time Wheeljack came out. Not much to say on a repaint! Still, be careful with those clear parts, as you were with Wheeljack. Anyway, the robot mode still comes out really nicely. Unfortunately the one noticeable paint flaw on mine is right there on his brow, but overall the paint apps on my Exhaust are much better applied than on his Autobot predecessor.



Pose-ability is, again, same as Wheeljack, which is to say it's good!



So I happened to notice during the transformation that the visor was what looked like a separate piece. The head is held together by just one screw, so I took it apart to see if he kept up with the tradition of having a face underneath the mask. Sure enough, there's a bot under there looking like he had a lobotomy. Actually looks a bit like Sunstreaker to me, but you be the judge!



Exhaust is a ton of fun, and really feels like a love letter to a different time - when toys could be toys, Joe Camel could sell you cigarettes whenever he pleased, and anyone could be a dangerous princess with a gun and emphysema.



Not sure I got that last part right, but regardless, this is a really fun release. Take it as such, and you'll be wholly satisfied. Essential for any Masterpiece collection (the Decepticons need some help!), for any TF collector that wants one of those "moment in time" pieces, or just for any collector that wants an amazing oddity in their collection ranks. Don't wait on this guy - rumor has it the production run is quite limited, so hit up one of our site sponsors today once they get their stock and don't miss out!

Is the silver on his face / brow the traditional silver paint that is used on Transformers or is it the darker gray silver?

Thanks very much- great review, and I'm counting the days until he arrives in my mailbox!
And I may frame that card

i'm so jelly right now scotty; you don't even know.

You have beautiful cuticles!



In other news, I am awfully jealous. C'mon HLJ - I paid last week. Ship my order!