This page contains affiliate links. We may earn commissions when readers interact with or purchase items through these links. For more information, see our affiliate disclosures here.

Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby Fanboy » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:14 pm

Think about it

Tf 1 he is owning optimus and is only stopped by the allspark getting pushed into his chest.

Tf 2 he is still strong but needs other decepticons to back him up in order to kill optimus.
Before he was rebuilt I doubt he would need assistance.

Tf 3 After being heavily injured megatron is well heavily injured he lost his ability to fly and only gets a cheapshot on sentinel before being killed by a 1 armed optimus.

Well what do you guys think ?
Fanboy

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:34 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Yes. Yes, he does.

And it makes sense, though it was basically shoehorned into the movies. But it really depends on which way you look at it; the subjective view (aka fan-canon aka I-want-to-believe) or the technical view (aka party-pooper version).

TF1

Fan-canon: Megatron, despite being frozen in ice of centuries, is still pretty much the same powerful Megs the Cybertronians feared.

Technical: OP and Megs were supposed to duke it out on equal footing, but Spielberg insisted it was Sam's story and wanted him to resolve the plot. That necessitates OP getting his ass kicked by Megatron so Sam can save him using the All-Spark.

ROTF

Fan-canon: Megatron was destroyed by the raw energy of the All-Spark and dumped into the Laurentian Abyss in TF1, and was revived by a tiny fragment of the All-Spark. His parts were "salvaged" by ripping them off of some random Constructicon. Understandably, the less than quality treatment The Doctor provided would hamper his fighting ability.

Technical: The reasons are manifold. The writers wanted to emphasize on the fact that only a Prime can kill a Prime, so having Megatron single-handedly killing OP sort of negates that fact. It was also a trap, so it would stand to reason that the Cons would gang up on him. Also, it looks cooler having OP take on so many Cons at once, and cements this as one of the all-time best fight scenes in the three movies.

DOTM

Fan-canon: He's obviously still recovering from his wounds from ROTF, and is pretty much a mess. Nuff said.

Technical: In the novel, Megatron was supposed to be offered a truce with OP and return to Cybertron with his Decepticons. The novel was released earlier than the movie, and Bay probably wanted to switch things up a little and add some kickass action along the way. Thus Megs had to get his metal ass handed to him.
SKYWARPED_128
Gestalt
Posts: 2837
News Credits: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:20 pm
Strength: Infinity
Intelligence: 9
Speed: Infinity
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 9
Courage: 10
Firepower: Infinity
Skill: 10+

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby TulioDude » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:24 pm

Motto: "Never doubt the awesomess."
Weapon: Energo-Sword
Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films


Nah,its Optimus that goes Hardcore. 8)
Silverwing wrote:Also, I feel compelled to give the obligatory: :michaelbay: :michaelbay: :michaelbay: :michaelbay: :michaelbay: :michaelbay: :michaelbay: :michaelbay: :michaelbay: :michaelbay:
One for each year of the Movieverse's decade strong tenure. Here's to a few more explosive years!


Here is my DeviantArt page and my Tumblr blog.
User avatar
TulioDude
Gestalt
Posts: 2482
News Credits: 6
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 6:20 pm
Strength: 9
Intelligence: 9
Speed: 5
Endurance: 9
Rank: 3
Courage: 8
Firepower: 8
Skill: 7

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby TurboMMaster » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:37 am

Motto: ""Have a hig gun? Have a big fun!!!""
Weapon: Cyclone Gun
Funny thing, shor before Action o the DotM Movie, Megatron kicks Optimus ass in fight in soviet military base. And Prime use MORE UPREGADES than in both RotF and DotM. Bespite this, he was ben easily handed by Megatron, with was after long battle with Warpath and extermination of many bots.

Here is the fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIV6LTtZHQk

Actually, Bay never threat Optimus vs Megatron fight series. He never cares about logic, or fightning style, if one needs to won, he simply won. And since Optimus Prime is main antagonist, it usually won in ridiculus sense of style.

I don't think we should search that kind of deep in Bay's Movies.
Image
What is love? Baby don't hurt me, Don't hurt me, no more.
User avatar
TurboMMaster
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 558
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:12 am
Watch TurboMMaster on YouTube
Strength: 10
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 3
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 7
Courage: 9
Firepower: 9
Skill: 5

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby Capt.Failure » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:54 pm

TurboMMaster wrote:Funny thing, shor before Action o the DotM Movie, Megatron kicks Optimus ass in fight in soviet military base. And Prime use MORE UPREGADES than in both RotF and DotM. Bespite this, he was ben easily handed by Megatron, with was after long battle with Warpath and extermination of many bots.

Here is the fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIV6LTtZHQk

Actually, Bay never threat Optimus vs Megatron fight series. He never cares about logic, or fightning style, if one needs to won, he simply won. And since Optimus Prime is main antagonist, it usually won in ridiculus sense of style.

I don't think we should search that kind of deep in Bay's Movies.


Actually there's plenty of logical sense of you pay attention. Megatron was indeed stronger the first time. The second time he was rebuilt with random parts, so he was weaker but also not dumb enough to fight alone. Third film he was pretty much suffering mortal wounds while Optimus had been rebuilt with the parts of a very old and powerful (if rusty) Seeker. Refusing to see the logic of the events in the films doesn't mean it isn't there or that Bay doesn't care about consistency.
Capt.Failure
Transmetal Warrior
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:06 am

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby TurboMMaster » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:40 am

Motto: ""Have a hig gun? Have a big fun!!!""
Weapon: Cyclone Gun
Capt.Failure wrote:Actually there's plenty of logical sense of you pay attention. Megatron was indeed stronger the first time.
Many Optimus Prime Lemmings-fans desperately search for any form excuse to negate this. Usually, they said that Optimus is not fighting at his best, because hew is affraid to harm humans. This is of couse kinda pathetic, bu Optimus fans do anything to neglect the fact that that Idol get his ass kicked.
The second time he was rebuilt with random parts, so he was weaker but also not dumb enough to fight alone.
Forst Battle is extremly bad done. Megatron from unkown reason changed his fightning style. In first movie he was a heavy wieght wrestler,throwng Prime like a Barbie doll. In second movie he prefering kick-boxing. Actually it was terrible, because he don't use during this fight non of he's adventages: He don't use his size(unless that time when he jump on Optimus), ability to take flight, or fusion canon. And to be honest, I don't think Bay even think about what he done. Also remember that Optimus after all this fight was'nt even able to wound Megatron during Forest Battle.

Third film he was pretty much suffering mortal wounds while Optimus had been rebuilt with the parts of a very old and powerful (if rusty) Seeker.
Yet still, this mortally wounded Megatron was been CANONICALLY able to nearly kill Optimus in oficial prequel, witch was not so long before action of the Movie. And Optimus uses his new upregades, along with force field AND Chainsaw. And he isn't tired after fighning, while Megatron was after a long battle with Autobots.

Refusing to see the logic of the events in the films doesn't mean it isn't there or that Bay doesn't care about consistency.
Actually, when you see any of Bay's movies, you can see that only logic he use is "As long as it is awesome, it is good for the movie."
Image
What is love? Baby don't hurt me, Don't hurt me, no more.
User avatar
TurboMMaster
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 558
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:12 am
Watch TurboMMaster on YouTube
Strength: 10
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 3
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 7
Courage: 9
Firepower: 9
Skill: 5

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby Capt.Failure » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:44 am

TurboMMaster wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:Actually there's plenty of logical sense of you pay attention. Megatron was indeed stronger the first time.
Many Optimus Prime Lemmings-fans desperately search for any form excuse to negate this. Usually, they said that Optimus is not fighting at his best, because hew is affraid to harm humans. This is of couse kinda pathetic, bu Optimus fans do anything to neglect the fact that that Idol get his ass kicked.
The second time he was rebuilt with random parts, so he was weaker but also not dumb enough to fight alone.
Forst Battle is extremly bad done. Megatron from unkown reason changed his fightning style. In first movie he was a veavy wieght wrestler,throwng Prime like a Barbie doll. In second movie he prefering kick-boxing. Actually it was terrible, because he don't use during this fight non of he's adventages: He don't use his size, ability to take flight, or fusion canon. And to be honest, I don't think Bay even think about what he done. Also remember that Optimus after all this fight was'nt even able to wound Megatron during Forest Battle.

Third film he was pretty much suffering mortal wounds while Optimus had been rebuilt with the parts of a very old and powerful (if rusty) Seeker.
Yet still, this mortally wounded Megatron was been CANONICALLY able to nearly kill Optimus in oficial prequel, witch was not so long before action of the Movie. And Optimus uses his new upregades, along with force field AND Chainsaw. And he isn't tired after fighning, while Megatron was after a long battle with Autobots.

Refusing to see the logic of the events in the films doesn't mean it isn't there or that Bay doesn't care about consistency.
Actually, when you see any of Bay's movies, you can see that only logic he use is "As long as it is awesome, it is good for the movie."


...

So basically it doesn't matter if someone points out the facts, you'll just deny it and live in your own little world? I see, so this entire "discussion" is pointless. :roll:

Edit: You are aware that the order of canon with the films is movie > book = comic right?
Capt.Failure
Transmetal Warrior
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:06 am

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby TurboMMaster » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:39 am

Motto: ""Have a hig gun? Have a big fun!!!""
Weapon: Cyclone Gun
Capt.Failure wrote:...

So basically it doesn't matter if someone points out the facts, you'll just deny it and live in your own little world? I see, so this entire "discussion" is pointless. :roll:

Edit: You are aware that the order of canon with the films is movie > book = comic right?
Let me quess, you never heard of Transformers: Dark f the Moon video game, witch is prequel of movie(although, there seems to be some plot holes, yet they can be easily explained ), arent you?
Image
What is love? Baby don't hurt me, Don't hurt me, no more.
User avatar
TurboMMaster
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 558
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:12 am
Watch TurboMMaster on YouTube
Strength: 10
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 3
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 7
Courage: 9
Firepower: 9
Skill: 5

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby Capt.Failure » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:47 am

TurboMMaster wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:...

So basically it doesn't matter if someone points out the facts, you'll just deny it and live in your own little world? I see, so this entire "discussion" is pointless. :roll:

Edit: You are aware that the order of canon with the films is movie > book = comic right?
Let me quess, you never heard of Transformers: Dark f the Moon video game, witch is prequel of movie(although, there seems to be some plot holes, yet they can be easily explained ), arent you?


The difficulty of a video game =/= movie canon I'm afraid.
Capt.Failure
Transmetal Warrior
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:06 am

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:03 am

Motto: "Love it? GET IT!
It's that simple."
Weapon: Vibro-Axe
TurboMMaster wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:...

So basically it doesn't matter if someone points out the facts, you'll just deny it and live in your own little world? I see, so this entire "discussion" is pointless. :roll:

Edit: You are aware that the order of canon with the films is movie > book = comic right?
Let me quess, you never heard of Transformers: Dark f the Moon video game, witch is prequel of movie(although, there seems to be some plot holes, yet they can be easily explained ), arent you?


Turbomaster, I had some difficulty reading you at first.
But then, I imagine you with a big manly voice with a thick Russian accent and it's all better! :lol:

Back on topic.
For me, Megatron was like a god in the first movie because he was THE MAIN villain. That's it.
In the second movie, the main villain was The Fallen so Megs had to power down to not steal his spotlight.
In the third movie, the main villain was (spoiler!) Sentinel Prime. Plus, Megs is still recovering. So, he's done for.

Sigh... Megatron was perfect in the first movie but he was treated like **** in the others. He better revive as Galvatron in the fourth film and be a real threat this time around.
Come see my latest creation, a Galvatron Combiner using 4 SS86 Sweeps as limbs


Image

Also, an update to my old ALL HELICOPER VICTORION!


.
User avatar
-Kanrabat-
God Of Transformers
Posts: 17753
News Credits: 95
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Canada, province of Québec
Watch -Kanrabat- on YouTube
Buy from -Kanrabat- on eBay
Strength: N/A
Intelligence: N/A
Speed: N/A
Endurance: N/A
Rank: Infinity
Courage: N/A
Firepower: N/A
Skill: N/A

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:58 am

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
-Kanrabat- wrote:Sigh... Megatron was perfect in the first movie but he was treated like **** in the others. He better revive as Galvatron in the fourth film and be a real threat this time around.


Not too likely, I'm afraid. Kurtzman and Orci did think about renaming Megatron as Galvatron when they revived him in ROTF, but decided against it because they thought it might confuse the audience.
SKYWARPED_128
Gestalt
Posts: 2837
News Credits: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:20 pm
Strength: Infinity
Intelligence: 9
Speed: Infinity
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 9
Courage: 10
Firepower: Infinity
Skill: 10+

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby Capt.Failure » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:05 pm

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Sigh... Megatron was perfect in the first movie but he was treated like **** in the others. He better revive as Galvatron in the fourth film and be a real threat this time around.


Not too likely, I'm afraid. Kurtzman and Orci did think about renaming Megatron as Galvatron when they revived him in ROTF, but decided against it because they thought it might confuse the audience.


Did I ever mention how much I hate those two? :BANG_HEAD:
Capt.Failure
Transmetal Warrior
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:06 am

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:22 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Sigh... Megatron was perfect in the first movie but he was treated like **** in the others. He better revive as Galvatron in the fourth film and be a real threat this time around.


Not too likely, I'm afraid. Kurtzman and Orci did think about renaming Megatron as Galvatron when they revived him in ROTF, but decided against it because they thought it might confuse the audience.


Did I ever mention how much I hate those two? :BANG_HEAD:


Well, they did pretty good as producers of the TF Prime series. I just hate whoever was responsible for the dumb jokes in the movies, and it seems the two and Kruger had their hands in it as well.
SKYWARPED_128
Gestalt
Posts: 2837
News Credits: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:20 pm
Strength: Infinity
Intelligence: 9
Speed: Infinity
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 9
Courage: 10
Firepower: Infinity
Skill: 10+

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby Capt.Failure » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:03 pm

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Sigh... Megatron was perfect in the first movie but he was treated like **** in the others. He better revive as Galvatron in the fourth film and be a real threat this time around.


Not too likely, I'm afraid. Kurtzman and Orci did think about renaming Megatron as Galvatron when they revived him in ROTF, but decided against it because they thought it might confuse the audience.


Did I ever mention how much I hate those two? :BANG_HEAD:


Well, they did pretty good as producers of the TF Prime series. I just hate whoever was responsible for the dumb jokes in the movies, and it seems the two and Kruger had their hands in it as well.


Their efforts show they don't care about what they're writing. With the writer's strike inbound they worked double time to finish the Star Trek script and gave Bay an unfinished script. When they cut their cancer out of the series we got Dark of the Moon.
Capt.Failure
Transmetal Warrior
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:06 am

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:14 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Sigh... Megatron was perfect in the first movie but he was treated like **** in the others. He better revive as Galvatron in the fourth film and be a real threat this time around.


Not too likely, I'm afraid. Kurtzman and Orci did think about renaming Megatron as Galvatron when they revived him in ROTF, but decided against it because they thought it might confuse the audience.


Did I ever mention how much I hate those two? :BANG_HEAD:


Well, they did pretty good as producers of the TF Prime series. I just hate whoever was responsible for the dumb jokes in the movies, and it seems the two and Kruger had their hands in it as well.


Their efforts show they don't care about what they're writing. With the writer's strike inbound they worked double time to finish the Star Trek script and gave Bay an unfinished script. When they cut their cancer out of the series we got Dark of the Moon.


They went half-assed with ROTF while focusing on Star Trek? I didn't know that.

Okay, now I'm officially pissed off with these two. With the massive budget and popularity the first movie created, ROTF had massive potential. Granted, ROTF has some of the most unforgettable scenes in the 3 movies, but in some other areas, it could have been a lot better.
SKYWARPED_128
Gestalt
Posts: 2837
News Credits: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:20 pm
Strength: Infinity
Intelligence: 9
Speed: Infinity
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 9
Courage: 10
Firepower: Infinity
Skill: 10+

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby Capt.Failure » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:42 pm

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Sigh... Megatron was perfect in the first movie but he was treated like **** in the others. He better revive as Galvatron in the fourth film and be a real threat this time around.


Not too likely, I'm afraid. Kurtzman and Orci did think about renaming Megatron as Galvatron when they revived him in ROTF, but decided against it because they thought it might confuse the audience.


Did I ever mention how much I hate those two? :BANG_HEAD:


Well, they did pretty good as producers of the TF Prime series. I just hate whoever was responsible for the dumb jokes in the movies, and it seems the two and Kruger had their hands in it as well.


Their efforts show they don't care about what they're writing. With the writer's strike inbound they worked double time to finish the Star Trek script and gave Bay an unfinished script. When they cut their cancer out of the series we got Dark of the Moon.


They went half-assed with ROTF while focusing on Star Trek? I didn't know that.

Okay, now I'm officially pissed off with these two. With the massive budget and popularity the first movie created, ROTF had massive potential. Granted, ROTF has some of the most unforgettable scenes in the 3 movies, but in some other areas, it could have been a lot better.


Yeah, they gave Bay 14 pages of script to work with. The film leading up to Optimus' death was so padded since they had to stretch the original script as far as they could.
Capt.Failure
Transmetal Warrior
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:06 am

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:28 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Sigh... Megatron was perfect in the first movie but he was treated like **** in the others. He better revive as Galvatron in the fourth film and be a real threat this time around.


Not too likely, I'm afraid. Kurtzman and Orci did think about renaming Megatron as Galvatron when they revived him in ROTF, but decided against it because they thought it might confuse the audience.


Did I ever mention how much I hate those two? :BANG_HEAD:


Well, they did pretty good as producers of the TF Prime series. I just hate whoever was responsible for the dumb jokes in the movies, and it seems the two and Kruger had their hands in it as well.


Their efforts show they don't care about what they're writing. With the writer's strike inbound they worked double time to finish the Star Trek script and gave Bay an unfinished script. When they cut their cancer out of the series we got Dark of the Moon.


They went half-assed with ROTF while focusing on Star Trek? I didn't know that.

Okay, now I'm officially pissed off with these two. With the massive budget and popularity the first movie created, ROTF had massive potential. Granted, ROTF has some of the most unforgettable scenes in the 3 movies, but in some other areas, it could have been a lot better.


Yeah, they gave Bay 14 pages of script to work with. The film leading up to Optimus' death was so padded since they had to stretch the original script as far as they could.


That certainly explains all the college shenanigans that Bay and his producer had to stuff into the movie. I always felt the forest trap thing was a little awkward. I kept thinking the whole plan was to kidnap Sam and get the code from his brain, and that they simply turned around to stop Optimus from getting away with Sam.

It was only after listening to the commentaries that I realized it was supposed to be a trap.
SKYWARPED_128
Gestalt
Posts: 2837
News Credits: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:20 pm
Strength: Infinity
Intelligence: 9
Speed: Infinity
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 9
Courage: 10
Firepower: Infinity
Skill: 10+

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby Capt.Failure » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:30 pm

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:Sigh... Megatron was perfect in the first movie but he was treated like **** in the others. He better revive as Galvatron in the fourth film and be a real threat this time around.


Not too likely, I'm afraid. Kurtzman and Orci did think about renaming Megatron as Galvatron when they revived him in ROTF, but decided against it because they thought it might confuse the audience.


Did I ever mention how much I hate those two? :BANG_HEAD:


Well, they did pretty good as producers of the TF Prime series. I just hate whoever was responsible for the dumb jokes in the movies, and it seems the two and Kruger had their hands in it as well.


Their efforts show they don't care about what they're writing. With the writer's strike inbound they worked double time to finish the Star Trek script and gave Bay an unfinished script. When they cut their cancer out of the series we got Dark of the Moon.


They went half-assed with ROTF while focusing on Star Trek? I didn't know that.

Okay, now I'm officially pissed off with these two. With the massive budget and popularity the first movie created, ROTF had massive potential. Granted, ROTF has some of the most unforgettable scenes in the 3 movies, but in some other areas, it could have been a lot better.


Yeah, they gave Bay 14 pages of script to work with. The film leading up to Optimus' death was so padded since they had to stretch the original script as far as they could.


That certainly explains all the college shenanigans that Bay and his producer had to stuff into the movie. I always felt the forest trap thing was a little awkward. I kept thinking the whole plan was to kidnap Sam and get the code from his brain, and that they simply turned around to stop Optimus from getting away with Sam.

It was only after listening to the commentaries that I realized it was supposed to be a trap.


Indeed. What it amounts to is the script when filming began only went up to the forest battle, so they brought in another writer to finish it on the fly. From what I gather Bay tried to get filming delayed, but the studios told him to slag off in no uncertain terms. This isn't the first time this happened to Bay. His only film I consider truly terrible, Pearl Harbor, was a war movie that got hijacked by the studio and implanted with a new writer (Randal Wallace, who's responsible for Braveheart) who took the original script and wrote a love story around it. They did this to try and ape the success of Titanic.

The result was a bloated mess that left the titular battle feeling like a completely separate and superior film inside a poorly written romance movie. They also were forced to tack the Dolittle Raid sequence on to resolve the film's romantic plot tumor, since the film originally ended with the end of the Pearl Harbor attack.

It's Pearl Harbor and Revenge of the Fallen that cause the Bay hate train, and it's funny since neither film's problems were his fault. Hell I even consider RotF largely salvaged considering the problems they had. At least that film was entertaining in the end. Pearl Harbor ranks with The Last Airbender as tied for first "Worst Movie of All Time" on my personal list.
Capt.Failure
Transmetal Warrior
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:06 am

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:48 am

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Capt.Failure wrote:Indeed. What it amounts to is the script when filming began only went up to the forest battle, so they brought in another writer to finish it on the fly. From what I gather Bay tried to get filming delayed, but the studios told him to slag off in no uncertain terms. This isn't the first time this happened to Bay. His only film I consider truly terrible, Pearl Harbor, was a war movie that got hijacked by the studio and implanted with a new writer (Randal Wallace, who's responsible for Braveheart) who took the original script and wrote a love story around it. They did this to try and ape the success of Titanic.

The result was a bloated mess that left the titular battle feeling like a completely separate and superior film inside a poorly written romance movie. They also were forced to tack the Dolittle Raid sequence on to resolve the film's romantic plot tumor, since the film originally ended with the end of the Pearl Harbor attack.

It's Pearl Harbor and Revenge of the Fallen that cause the Bay hate train, and it's funny since neither film's problems were his fault. Hell I even consider RotF largely salvaged considering the problems they had. At least that film was entertaining in the end. Pearl Harbor ranks with The Last Airbender as tied for first "Worst Movie of All Time" on my personal list.


I don't remember much of anything from the one time I watched Pearl Harbor, which probably says a lot about the movie. All in all, it was literally quite forgettable.

As for ROTF, it was a shame about the timing and the fact that Kurtzman and Orci decided to focus on Star Trek. Actually, it's infuriating, when you think about just how much potential it had.

But it's good to know that Bay actually tried to delay the filming for the good of the movie--in my book, that's responsible directorship, especially for someone who's known to be a bit of a workaholic. A pity Paramount refused to listen. The thing about being the director of a movie is that, besides the main actors, you're the face of the movie. And whatever bouquets or brickbats the movie earns is attributed the the director and the actors.
SKYWARPED_128
Gestalt
Posts: 2837
News Credits: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:20 pm
Strength: Infinity
Intelligence: 9
Speed: Infinity
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 9
Courage: 10
Firepower: Infinity
Skill: 10+

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby Capt.Failure » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:05 am

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:I don't remember much of anything from the one time I watched Pearl Harbor, which probably says a lot about the movie. All in all, it was literally quite forgettable.

As for ROTF, it was a shame about the timing and the fact that Kurtzman and Orci decided to focus on Star Trek. Actually, it's infuriating, when you think about just how much potential it had.

But it's good to know that Bay actually tried to delay the filming for the good of the movie--in my book, that's responsible directorship, especially for someone who's known to be a bit of a workaholic. A pity Paramount refused to listen. The thing about being the director of a movie is that, besides the main actors, you're the face of the movie. And whatever bouquets or brickbats the movie earns is attributed the the director and the actors.


With film criticism becoming the kind of circlejerk you see on Reddit nowadays the so called "Single-man Fallacy" (the false belief that one person is responsible for a large problem caused by many) is trendy to use against Bay. Take for example Prometheus. It went through a complete rewrite with a pretty lousy writer and turned out be be a below par film. But critics love Ridley Scott, so he got a free pass and the writer took the blame.

The trend on the cesspool that is Rotten Tomatoes is that Bay deserves nothing but negativity. Due to this if one of his films has issues for outlying reasons (writers, time and budget problems, etc) the blame will always fall on him and him alone. Hell, look at when that extra got hurt during Dark of the Moon's filming. People blamed Bay like he did it on purpose, lest we recall he didn't use the footage from that event in the final film. He repurposed chase scene footage from the Island to replace it. To me it says a lot about him that he wouldn't put that footage in, that he wouldn't want to profit off an event where someone got seriously hurt.

But not in the minds of mainstream and armchair critics. To them Bay can do no right because the hivemind says so.
Capt.Failure
Transmetal Warrior
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:06 am

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:56 am

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Capt.Failure wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:I don't remember much of anything from the one time I watched Pearl Harbor, which probably says a lot about the movie. All in all, it was literally quite forgettable.

As for ROTF, it was a shame about the timing and the fact that Kurtzman and Orci decided to focus on Star Trek. Actually, it's infuriating, when you think about just how much potential it had.

But it's good to know that Bay actually tried to delay the filming for the good of the movie--in my book, that's responsible directorship, especially for someone who's known to be a bit of a workaholic. A pity Paramount refused to listen. The thing about being the director of a movie is that, besides the main actors, you're the face of the movie. And whatever bouquets or brickbats the movie earns is attributed the the director and the actors.


With film criticism becoming the kind of circlejerk you see on Reddit nowadays the so called "Single-man Fallacy" (the false belief that one person is responsible for a large problem caused by many) is trendy to use against Bay. Take for example Prometheus. It went through a complete rewrite with a pretty lousy writer and turned out be be a below par film. But critics love Ridley Scott, so he got a free pass and the writer took the blame.


Yeah; unfair, but inevitable.

Another factor is nostalgia. Scott's been the darling of moviegoers since the 70's, and the nostalgia of Aliens, Gladiator and even Blade Runner remains strong. It's the same phenomenon with Elvis in his later days. He could hardly fit into his costumes, but fans refused to acknowledge the middle-aged, stocky wreck of a man he's become. In their eyes, he'll always be the suave young man with the cool moves.

Bay has become Ridley Scott's complete opposite. He's a director suited to action movies and big scenes, but these movies don't usually get the same kind of accolades as the more "intellectual" films of the same genre. While I'm sure most have watched his movies and enjoyed them, few will admit it.

Capt.Failure wrote:The trend on the cesspool that is Rotten Tomatoes is that Bay deserves nothing but negativity. Due to this if one of his films has issues for outlying reasons (writers, time and budget problems, etc) the blame will always fall on him and him alone. Hell, look at when that extra got hurt during Dark of the Moon's filming. People blamed Bay like he did it on purpose, lest we recall he didn't use the footage from that event in the final film. He repurposed chase scene footage from the Island to replace it. To me it says a lot about him that he wouldn't put that footage in, that he wouldn't want to profit off an event where someone got seriously hurt.

But not in the minds of mainstream and armchair critics. To them Bay can do no right because the hivemind says so.


Exactly. It's been scientifically proven that people tend to willfully pick the same answer according to the decisions of the majority, no matter whether the answer is correct or wrong. It's not for me to judge such behavior, except to say that it's natural for many people to do so.

ROTF as a movie is ridiculously divisive due to its beautifully choreographed action scenes but disjointed plot stuffed with filler, no thanks to Kurtzman and Orci, which is why reactions to it are so extreme. Most have to gravitate to one side or the other, and thus we have flame wars that still rage on despite the movie having been released four whole years ago.
SKYWARPED_128
Gestalt
Posts: 2837
News Credits: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:20 pm
Strength: Infinity
Intelligence: 9
Speed: Infinity
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 9
Courage: 10
Firepower: Infinity
Skill: 10+

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:56 am

Motto: "Love it? GET IT!
It's that simple."
Weapon: Vibro-Axe
I once said it and I'll say it again. The main problem with the movies is that they focused way too more on the humans. I can understand it for the first movie because we discover them (and I love Shia's act.) Unfortunately, there's way too much human slapstick in RotF and DotM. It feel like poor and cheap filler. Sure, these scenes were way less expensives to shoot than the scenes with the bots. Man, the bots do have personalities and feelings too. If you have to pad the movie, pad it with scenes that make us discover the :BOT: and :CON: so that se care about them. This way, when a bot die, instead of doing "meh", we may actually feel something.

Also, it snowed two days ago. 30 cm of white ****. It's Bay's fault.
Come see my latest creation, a Galvatron Combiner using 4 SS86 Sweeps as limbs


Image

Also, an update to my old ALL HELICOPER VICTORION!


.
User avatar
-Kanrabat-
God Of Transformers
Posts: 17753
News Credits: 95
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Canada, province of Québec
Watch -Kanrabat- on YouTube
Buy from -Kanrabat- on eBay
Strength: N/A
Intelligence: N/A
Speed: N/A
Endurance: N/A
Rank: Infinity
Courage: N/A
Firepower: N/A
Skill: N/A

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:55 am

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
-Kanrabat- wrote:I once said it and I'll say it again. The main problem with the movies is that they focused way too more on the humans. I can understand it for the first movie because we discover them (and I love Shia's act.) Unfortunately, there's way too much human slapstick in RotF and DotM. It feel like poor and cheap filler. Sure, these scenes were way less expensives to shoot than the scenes with the bots. Man, the bots do have personalities and feelings too. If you have to pad the movie, pad it with scenes that make us discover the :BOT: and :CON: so that se care about them. This way, when a bot die, instead of doing "meh", we may actually feel something.

Also, it snowed two days ago. 30 cm of white ****. It's Bay's fault.


I agree about the slapstick and the focus on humans, but I have to say DOTM is a step in the right direction. There's noticeably less of it in DOTM than in ROTF.

Personally, I think DOTM has much stronger characterization that ROTF. Sentinel's duplicity as an Autobot turncoat makes him a much more 3-dimentional character than any previous TF movie villain.

You're right that the bots were pretty much background noise in ROTF, but in DOTM I have to say they've made some big improvements. In ROTF, I din't give a damn that Arcee got killed, or even Jetfire (because I just hated the whole old geezer characterization). But in DOTM I did care when Ironhide got shot, and when Optimus killed Sentinel.

Were there under-utilized characters in DOTM? Sure. Shockwave just walked around looking angry and spouting nonsensical lines like, "Drill bot is thirsty." (WTF?) Megatron should have been given a longer fight than the 5 seconds or so it took for OP to put an axe in his head.

But compared to the non-existent characterizations of the ROTF extras like Jolt, Arcee and the Constructicons, DOTM at least has a cast of characters who have at least a semblance of personality like Que, Dino and Laserbeak.

By no means am I saying that DOTM is perfect, but it's an improvement. Hopefully we'll see even more improvement in TF4.
SKYWARPED_128
Gestalt
Posts: 2837
News Credits: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:20 pm
Strength: Infinity
Intelligence: 9
Speed: Infinity
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 9
Courage: 10
Firepower: Infinity
Skill: 10+

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby TurboMMaster » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:24 am

Motto: ""Have a hig gun? Have a big fun!!!""
Weapon: Cyclone Gun
Actually, Kurtzman and Orci are good writes, after all, what they done with Transformers:Prime is a masterpice. Also, original script of RotF was far different from what we got, thanks to Michael Bay. I belive that the worst part of Bayformers is Michael Bay itself. The universe is intersting and have a lot of potential, however, Bay have some strange tendency to belive that he can do anything, and he can do it better. Pretty much all things fans hate in Bayformers are his personal ideas.

About Ironhide: I feel relief when he was killed, to be honest I think he should end killed in first movie, by Megatron. Mostly because when Autobots engade Megatron, Jazz should be already dead. Simply, when Brawl catch Jazz and thrown him away, he should tear Autobot apart instead.
Image
What is love? Baby don't hurt me, Don't hurt me, no more.
User avatar
TurboMMaster
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 558
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:12 am
Watch TurboMMaster on YouTube
Strength: 10
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 3
Endurance: 10+
Rank: 7
Courage: 9
Firepower: 9
Skill: 5

Re: Megatron Gets Weaker Throughout The Films

Postby Capt.Failure » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:13 pm

-Kanrabat- wrote:I once said it and I'll say it again. The main problem with the movies is that they focused way too more on the humans. I can understand it for the first movie because we discover them (and I love Shia's act.) Unfortunately, there's way too much human slapstick in RotF and DotM. It feel like poor and cheap filler. Sure, these scenes were way less expensives to shoot than the scenes with the bots. Man, the bots do have personalities and feelings too. If you have to pad the movie, pad it with scenes that make us discover the :BOT: and :CON: so that se care about them. This way, when a bot die, instead of doing "meh", we may actually feel something.

Also, it snowed two days ago. 30 cm of white ****. It's Bay's fault.


Actually the emphasis on humans (more so in the first but still there in the sequels) is thanks to Spielberg, self proclaimed fan of Transformers, who thought audiences couldn't identify with the robots if they were the main focus. This is why I believe you should NEVER let a fan handle an adaptation.

TurboMMaster wrote:Actually, Kurtzman and Orci are good writes, after all, what they done with Transformers:Prime is a masterpice. Also, original script of RotF was far different from what we got, thanks to Michael Bay. I belive that the worst part of Bayformers is Michael Bay itself. The universe is intersting and have a lot of potential, however, Bay have some strange tendency to belive that he can do anything, and he can do it better. Pretty much all things fans hate in Bayformers are his personal ideas.

About Ironhide: I feel relief when he was killed, to be honest I think he should end killed in first movie, by Megatron. Mostly because when Autobots engade Megatron, Jazz should be already dead. Simply, when Brawl catch Jazz and thrown him away, he should tear Autobot apart instead.


No, they really are crap. I couldn't watch more than a few episodes of Prime before I turned off the TV for good. They're widely acknowledged as two of the worst writers in Hollywood today. The script for RotF turned out how it did because those two decided to not finish the job after collecting their paycheck and quitting for the Writer's Guild Strike. They're lazy, no talent hacks.

See, your problem is you don't know anything about how a movie is made, who's responsible for what areas of the film and so forth. Let me educate you with a simple bullet point list:

1: Emphasis on humans over bots - That was Spielberg, as stated earlier in this post. You can also thank him for the Twins if you disliked them. He thought they would be funny and took a play from the book of his best friend George Lucas, the king of offensive stereotypes.

2: The plot/characterization and related problems - That was Orci and Kurtzman. Michael Bay is not a script writer, nor has he ever written one. When they handed him an unfinished script he had to bring in a non-guild writer to finish it mid-filming.

3: Shakey cam - Probably the only thing you can legitimately blame on Bay, and it's highly subjective.

And those are the facts. You need to learn how to allocate blame when it comes to a multi-person production. Blaming the "face" of the team doesn't do anything but make you look foolish.
Capt.Failure
Transmetal Warrior
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:06 am

Next

Return to Transformers Live Action Film Forum

Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store

Visit our store on eBay
These are affiliate links. We may earn commissions when you purchase items or services through these links.
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Rescan BUMBLEBEE Transformers Rescue Bots 2015 yellow muscle car 201217a"
Rescan BUMBLEBEE T ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "MEDIX DOC-BOT Transformers Rescue Bots 2012 Playskool 191206a"
MEDIX DOC-BOT Tran ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "OPTIMUS PRIME Transformers Classic Heroes Team Rescue Bots Hasbro 2022 New"
OPTIMUS PRIME Tran ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "MEGATRON Transformers Earthspark Deluxe Mandroid wave Hasbro 2023 New"
MEGATRON Transform ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "OPTIMUS PRIME Transformers Rescue Bots Academy Featured Feature Playskool 2022"
OPTIMUS PRIME Tran ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Transformers EARTHSPARK Official Guidebook Paperback Simon Spotlight Book 2023"
Transformers EARTH ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Energize OPTIMUS PRIME COMMANDER-BOT Transformers Rescue Bots 2012 Playskool"
Energize OPTIMUS P ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Rescan OPTIMUS PRIME Transformers Rescue Bots Playskool 2017 New Truck Diaclone"
Rescan OPTIMUS PRI ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Energize OPTIMUS PRIME Transformers Rescue Bots PVC figure 2013 Playskool"
Energize OPTIMUS P ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "OPTIMUS PRIME COMMANDER-BOT Transformers Rescue Bots 2011 Playskool 191206a"
OPTIMUS PRIME COMM ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BUMBLEBEE Transformers Rescue Bots Academy Featured Feature Playskool 2021 New"
BUMBLEBEE Transfor ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Feature Bot OPTIMUS PRIME action figure Transformers Rescue Bots Playskool 2015"
Feature Bot OPTIMU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "CHASE Transformers Legacy United Deluxe Class Rescue Bots Hasbro 2024 New"
CHASE Transformers ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "CHIEF CHARLIE BURNS + RESCUE CUTTER Transformers Rescue Bots 2011 Playskool"
CHIEF CHARLIE BURN ...
* Price and quantities subject to change. Shipping costs, taxes and other fees not included in cost shown. Refer to listing for current price and availability.
Find the items above and thousands more at the Seibertron Store on eBay
Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #345 - The Roast
Twincast / Podcast #345:
"The Roast"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Saturday, March 9th, 2024

Featured Products on Amazon.com

These are affiliate links. We may earn commissions when you purchase items or services through these links.
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Legends Class Battleslash" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Deluxe Class Dinobot Sludge" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Deluxe Class Dinobot Slug" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Deluxe Misfire and Aimless" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Deluxe Class Blackwing" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Deluxe 20 Mercenary Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Deluxe Twin Twist and Flameout" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Deluxe Class Terrorcon Blot" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Deluxe Class Deception Off Road Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Titan Class Fortress Maximus" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Autobot Hot Rod and Firedrive" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Deluxe Class Swindle" on AMAZON