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megatron: maniac or patriot

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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby Optimus Primevil » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:58 pm

i think that megatron's methods were flawed but he does care about cybertron (mainly because he probably thinks it's HIS) because rather than leave and settle else where, he;d rather bring it back from ruin... then again they're cybertronians... kinda makes you look bad if you're a conquering empire and your home planet is a dump.


back then they were an empire...so would that mean they were expanding militarily?



and anyone get the joke based on the topic title?
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby Woede » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:35 pm

I would have to say he is a radical because he would give everything to get his Cybertron back for him to rule. If you are strictly loyal to cybertron then you would have to side with cybertron because prime keeps stopping the restoration of cybertron because in order to do so it would involve wiping out another race. Prime won't allow their war to effect any other races as much as he can but, Megatron will stop at nothing to get Cybertron back for him to rule. His intentions may have been pure in the beginning but complete power corrupts completely.
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby Chaoslock » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:53 am

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More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.

Hell, I heard somebody said that the prequel material shows the war only happening because Optimus was jealous to give Megatron the authority over the cybertronians that Prime got from Sentinel.
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby Bleak5170 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:04 am

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Chaoslock wrote:More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.



Huh? Megatron was responsible for completely decimating what was once a healthy, thriving planet, and the deaths of most of it's inhabitants. The only thing he cared about was tyranny and ruling everyone with an iron fist. He's the complete opposite of "patriotic". People who are patriotic love their country - they don't destroy it.
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby dirk2243 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:32 am

Motto: "If you don't believe me, just ask me.....I'll tell you all about it."
Bleak5170 wrote:
Chaoslock wrote:More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.



Huh? Megatron was responsible for completely decimating what was once a healthy, thriving planet, and the deaths of most of it's inhabitants. The only thing he cared about was tyranny and ruling everyone with an iron fist. He's the complete opposite of "patriotic". People who are patriotic love their country - they don't destroy it.


Yeah, how can you start a war on a peaceful planet in which you had 50% of the leadership in and call yourself a patriot? I'm thinking Dictator... power hungry.... selfish... jealous....etc, etc, etc
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:54 am

dirk2243 wrote:
Bleak5170 wrote:
Chaoslock wrote:More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.



Huh? Megatron was responsible for completely decimating what was once a healthy, thriving planet, and the deaths of most of it's inhabitants. The only thing he cared about was tyranny and ruling everyone with an iron fist. He's the complete opposite of "patriotic". People who are patriotic love their country - they don't destroy it.


Yeah, how can you start a war on a peaceful planet in which you had 50% of the leadership in and call yourself a patriot? I'm thinking Dictator... power hungry.... selfish... jealous....etc, etc, etc


most dictators are patriotic though

they beleive that there way is the only way for their country men to prosper and survive
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby dirk2243 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:53 pm

Motto: "If you don't believe me, just ask me.....I'll tell you all about it."
shamone wrote:
dirk2243 wrote:
Bleak5170 wrote:
Chaoslock wrote:More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.



Huh? Megatron was responsible for completely decimating what was once a healthy, thriving planet, and the deaths of most of it's inhabitants. The only thing he cared about was tyranny and ruling everyone with an iron fist. He's the complete opposite of "patriotic". People who are patriotic love their country - they don't destroy it.


Yeah, how can you start a war on a peaceful planet in which you had 50% of the leadership in and call yourself a patriot? I'm thinking Dictator... power hungry.... selfish... jealous....etc, etc, etc


most dictators are patriotic though

they beleive that there way is the only way for their country men to prosper and survive


Key there is "they believe"! and I'd say that only makes them patriotic in there own mind.
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:57 pm

dirk2243 wrote:
shamone wrote:
dirk2243 wrote:
Bleak5170 wrote:
Chaoslock wrote:More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.



Huh? Megatron was responsible for completely decimating what was once a healthy, thriving planet, and the deaths of most of it's inhabitants. The only thing he cared about was tyranny and ruling everyone with an iron fist. He's the complete opposite of "patriotic". People who are patriotic love their country - they don't destroy it.


Yeah, how can you start a war on a peaceful planet in which you had 50% of the leadership in and call yourself a patriot? I'm thinking Dictator... power hungry.... selfish... jealous....etc, etc, etc


most dictators are patriotic though

they beleive that there way is the only way for their country men to prosper and survive


Key there is "they believe"! and I'd say that only makes them patriotic in there own mind.


thats the point, patriotism is a stat of mind, its not tangible
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby paul053 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:27 pm

Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:47 pm

paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.


this
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:56 pm

paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.


this
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby dirk2243 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:26 pm

Motto: "If you don't believe me, just ask me.....I'll tell you all about it."
shamone wrote:
paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.


this


Prime himself says to Sentinel when he ask did they win the war he said no.

Patriotism is in the eyes of the beholder. Osama Bin Laden and his followers think there patriots. I do not share there same idea's and do not see them as patriots.

so....if you see megs as a patriot....thats your point of view...if not.....
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:34 pm

dirk2243 wrote:
shamone wrote:
paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.


this


Prime himself says to Sentinel when he ask did they win the war he said no.

Patriotism is in the eyes of the beholder. Osama Bin Laden and his followers think there patriots. I do not share there same idea's and do not see them as patriots.

so....if you see megs as a patriot....thats your point of view...if not.....


i think i see your point, but osama wouldnt consider himself a patriot,its not about nation for him tbf

but yeh hitler was a patriot
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby dirk2243 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:41 pm

Motto: "If you don't believe me, just ask me.....I'll tell you all about it."
shamone wrote:
dirk2243 wrote:
shamone wrote:
paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.


this


Prime himself says to Sentinel when he ask did they win the war he said no.

Patriotism is in the eyes of the beholder. Osama Bin Laden and his followers think there patriots. I do not share there same idea's and do not see them as patriots.

so....if you see megs as a patriot....thats your point of view...if not.....


i think i see your point, but osama wouldnt consider himself a patriot,its not about nation for him tbf

but yeh hitler was a patriot


I agree with you about hitler (in his mind) But for Osama it was about a religion which is idealy bigger right, then a country? Wanting Westerners out of Muslim countries? And yet, his thoughts wern't in line with actual Muslim teachings. I think (and my opinion) that he saw himself as a patriot for the Muslim cause, yet he seemed to shift his teachings around to fit his needs.

Reminds me a bit of Hitler.... Aryan race supremacy, Communism needs to be crushed.
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby shamone » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:49 pm

dirk2243 wrote:
shamone wrote:
dirk2243 wrote:
shamone wrote:
paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.


this


Prime himself says to Sentinel when he ask did they win the war he said no.

Patriotism is in the eyes of the beholder. Osama Bin Laden and his followers think there patriots. I do not share there same idea's and do not see them as patriots.

so....if you see megs as a patriot....thats your point of view...if not.....


i think i see your point, but osama wouldnt consider himself a patriot,its not about nation for him tbf

but yeh hitler was a patriot


I agree with you about hitler (in his mind) But for Osama it was about a religion which is idealy bigger right, then a country? Wanting Westerners out of Muslim countries? And yet, his thoughts wern't in line with actual Muslim teachings. I think (and my opinion) that he saw himself as a patriot for the Muslim cause, yet he seemed to shift his teachings around to fit his needs.

Reminds me a bit of Hitler.... Aryan race supremacy, Communism needs to be crushed.


im not saying osama wasnt following a cause, just that patriotism refers to nations. osama equivalent is probably a religious zealout

islam (his version) transcends nationhood as nations are seen as anti islam
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby Optimus Primevil » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:47 am

dirk2243 wrote:
shamone wrote:
dirk2243 wrote:
shamone wrote:
paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.


this


Prime himself says to Sentinel when he ask did they win the war he said no.

Patriotism is in the eyes of the beholder. Osama Bin Laden and his followers think there patriots. I do not share there same idea's and do not see them as patriots.

so....if you see megs as a patriot....thats your point of view...if not.....


i think i see your point, but osama wouldnt consider himself a patriot,its not about nation for him tbf

but yeh hitler was a patriot


I agree with you about hitler (in his mind) But for Osama it was about a religion which is idealy bigger right, then a country? Wanting Westerners out of Muslim countries? And yet, his thoughts wern't in line with actual Muslim teachings. I think (and my opinion) that he saw himself as a patriot for the Muslim cause, yet he seemed to shift his teachings around to fit his needs.

Reminds me a bit of Hitler.... Aryan race supremacy, Communism needs to be crushed.



@ dirk2243: your last statement is confusing...are you saying adolf in the name of aryan supremacy want to crush communism or are YOU saying communism needs to be crushed?

if we're on the subject of conflicting patriotism...thomas jefferson wanted freedom yet kept black slaves after the US gained their independence. freedom from the british yet keeping slaves? how about andrew jackson? He is praised as a protector of popular democracy and individual liberty for American citizens, but criticized for his support for slavery and Indian removal. The tea party movement...
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby dirk2243 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:55 am

Motto: "If you don't believe me, just ask me.....I'll tell you all about it."
no no....I was agreeing that Hitler saw himself as a patriot (but not the world nor I).

It's like, let me start this war, Go after countries I don't see as equals and call myself a genious/patriot.

"Megatron.... start a war on a peacful planet (that he is 50% in charge of) and the last movie he comes off so that people see this as a patriot?

I agree with ya. many "patriots" winning or loosing have some issues. Problem is the story usually goes to the winner.
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby Optimus Primevil » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:03 am

dirk2243 wrote:no no....I was agreeing that Hitler saw himself as a patriot (but not the world nor I).

It's like, let me start this war, Go after countries I don't see as equals and call myself a genious/patriot.

"Megatron.... start a war on a peacful planet (that he is 50% in charge of) and the last movie he comes off so that people see this as a patriot?

I agree with ya. many "patriots" winning or loosing have some issues. Problem is the story usually goes to the winner.


chinggis khan had a better excuse "as there is one God in heaven, there should only be one king on earth". he viewed all opposition not as equals but rebels to his rule and while the mongolians revere him akin to a god, the rest view him as a monster from hell...that or the punishment of God.

If you think about it, practically every version of the decepticons follow the strongest, the most ruthless individual (the g1 marvel comic has the lone exception...ratbat) and they follow only him (because they learned to fear power) and while movie optimus has the power and the ruthlessness... can he muster the ferocity needed to rein the remaining decepticons and bring them under his banner? and can he keep them under his thumb long enough that they'll be...i dunno, domesticated/civilized?
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby Firebrand » Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:06 pm

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In my opinion, they didn't make Megatron's character clear enough. Then again, all of his dialogue from the three movies could fit on one piece of paper.

Also in the third one, he seemed less of a tyrant and more of a Hobo with a Shotgun. I guess the idea of a prideful, powerful dictator got boring for Bay.
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby shamone » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:58 pm

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:In my opinion, they didn't make Megatron's character clear enough. Then again, all of his dialogue from the three movies could fit on one piece of paper.

Also in the third one, he seemed less of a tyrant and more of a Hobo with a Shotgun. I guess the idea of a prideful, powerful dictator got boring for Bay.


its sad that we have to instill motivation and character to the cons and bots because bay and the writers couldnt be bothered
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby Optimus Primevil » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:01 pm

is there one set of writers or are the writers different from one movie to the other? and does Michael even remember what happened to the previous movie that he does not notice the plot holes the new movie presents to the continuity?


did ANYONE tell Michael that the scripts doesn't make any sense continuity wise?
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Re: megatron: maniac or patriot

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:41 pm

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Optimus Primevil wrote:is there one set of writers or are the writers different from one movie to the other? and does Michael even remember what happened to the previous movie that he does not notice the plot holes the new movie presents to the continuity?


did ANYONE tell Michael that the scripts doesn't make any sense continuity wise?



Yes, yes they do. Are they perfect? No. But in all honesty, not every single aspect of the films are going to be explained in great detail. They just aren't. at some point, people need to fill in the blanks themselfs. And to point, i think this is supposed to be the case. Let the audience come up to their own conclusions and have their own views of the characters.

Decepticon_Vandal wrote:In my opinion, they didn't make Megatron's character clear enough. Then again, all of his dialogue from the three movies could fit on one piece of paper.

Also in the third one, he seemed less of a tyrant and more of a Hobo with a Shotgun. I guess the idea of a prideful, powerful dictator got boring for Bay.


In Megatron...Yes. We've seen him play this role before, so why not show his weaker side? Or maybe Megatron wasn't supposed to be seen as viliness as the last two movies since that role was filled by Sentinel? Meaning they wanted the Tyrannt dictator role to be dominated by the main vilian. Thats not to say that Megs didn't have his moments. He said himself that Sentinel was his "greatest accomplishment." So i don't know about you, but to corupt the Leader of the autobots with the ideals that goes against everything they've been fighting for for hunreads of years certianly shows power in my eyes.
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