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Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Transformers 3 is scheduled to be released on July 1st, 2011. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby Burn » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:52 pm

Hi. >:oP
(Should I be worried that Mindvvipe knows my sleeping schedule?)
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby vectorA3 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:45 pm

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No. stop. Stop. STOP. Time to let go of the reins Bay, let someone else direct the next Transformers. Shut up Mark W. Shut up. Nuff said.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby Wheelie Prime » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:45 pm

Wow, that’s an excessively aggressive reply. You’re very quick to take offense. Let me be clear: I’m not claiming a superior perspective or trying to offend you. So can we please refrain from immediately sinking to calling one another ignorant? Nobody’s saying that people who enjoy these movies are ignorant. It’s not necessary to tell me to keep my opinions to myself. That’s not constructive. Nor do you have to point out that every paragraph I write contains opinions. But it’s okay, you made some good points here and there, so I will indeed correct myself.

On the stories, what I’m saying is that we know that there are factors that contribute to qualitatively strong storytelling, and that these principles can be read and understood by anyone. You’re twisting my words to say that I’m saying you’re stupid and must not understand screenwriting if you like these movies. Or something like that. No. I’m just offering a basis for discussion other than “I liked the story/I didn't like the story," namely an answer to the question: “how do you define what makes a good story?" That’s not the same thing as saying it’s dumb to enjoy these movies. That would be absurd. I’m talking about all the technical and logical problems of the movies, in the story, the editing, the lighting, the special effects, etc. Yes, obviously many people don’t see them or ignore them and are able to thoroughly enjoy the movies, but that doesn’t mean these movies don’t have issues.

On the differences between franchises, again, not trying to offend. I’m saying that when we look at other franchises, it’s my opinion that it’s too bad that the Transformers franchise was given a director who was immediately so bent on creating his own vision of Transformers without immersing himself in the source material. Not saying you’re stupid, just saying it’s my opinion that such a divided fan base (on this topic) may attest to the fact that Transformers fans weren’t quite as fortunate in this respect as others.

On Marvel fans, they may well be more mature and intelligent than Transformers fans. I concede that point because I don't have the numbers. But I don’t see why that would necessarily boil down to a qualitatively poorer movie. After all, the target audiences for both these movie franchises are more or less the same.

As to whether not hating the films’ characters means hating Transformers, you’re right. Not what I wanted to communicate. What I meant was, if you like Transformers, like Decepticons, and like the movies, I still don’t see why you would be happy Bay made most of the Decepticons growling mutes, many of them without alt modes. I’m saying, if you like Devastator, of course you don’t have to hate movie Devastator, but that doesn’t mean it’s stupid to have hoped for something more than what we got or to be disappointed.

As I wrote earlier, if you are able to overlook their flaws and enjoy the movies, good. But just two plot holes? It would be trivially easy for you to spend five minutes to Google it and find a number far greater than that. Personally, I am simply disappointed by the quality of the films and that is not a controversial opinion. We’re talking about movies that have an average IMDB rating of 6.4, an average Rotten Tomatoes rating of not 38%, and were mostly panned by critics. But fine, you don’t appreciate the term “sucked." We’ll just have to say they lacked the necessary qualities for the audience and critics to appreciate them more thoroughly (Fact).

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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby SlyTF1 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:41 am

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Am I the only one who senses the possibility of a sort of... change of heart in Bay here? A revelation would probably be an even better word. I love the TF movies to death, but who's to say that Bay didn't slack on them thinking that they're just near-3 hour toy commercials instead of actual movies. From the sound of things, Bay being at the ride opening opened his eyes and he now understands that there are people who actually enjoy the movies A LOT. Perhaps he will actually try harder to give the people what they wanted from the first 3 movies because of that revelation. I don't know if I'm just talking out of my ass, but I'm curious to see whether or not my theory about Bay's dedication and effort in these movies is true.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby Autobot032 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:29 am

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SlyTF1 wrote:Am I the only one who senses the possibility of a sort of... change of heart in Bay here? A revelation would probably be an even better word. I love the TF movies to death, but who's to say that Bay didn't slack on them thinking that they're just near-3 hour toy commercials instead of actual movies. From the sound of things, Bay being at the ride opening opened his eyes and he now understands that there are people who actually enjoy the movies A LOT. Perhaps he will actually try harder to give the people what they wanted from the first 3 movies because of that revelation. I don't know if I'm just talking out of my ass, but I'm curious to see whether or not my theory about Bay's dedication and effort in these movies is true.


You bring up a very good point. But don't be surprised if this is met with resistance, because it will be. Trust me.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby Capt.Failure » Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:20 pm

Autobot032 wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:Am I the only one who senses the possibility of a sort of... change of heart in Bay here? A revelation would probably be an even better word. I love the TF movies to death, but who's to say that Bay didn't slack on them thinking that they're just near-3 hour toy commercials instead of actual movies. From the sound of things, Bay being at the ride opening opened his eyes and he now understands that there are people who actually enjoy the movies A LOT. Perhaps he will actually try harder to give the people what they wanted from the first 3 movies because of that revelation. I don't know if I'm just talking out of my ass, but I'm curious to see whether or not my theory about Bay's dedication and effort in these movies is true.


You bring up a very good point. But don't be surprised if this is met with resistance, because it will be. Trust me.


Of course it will be. If the Transformers fanbase has proven anything to me over the years it's that they're conservative, immature, and don't know what they want. This doesn't just stem from the films, but every new entry in the franchise. The films are just a more recent example.

TRUK NOT MUNKEY!!! anyone?
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby MINDVVIPE » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:30 pm

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Capt.Failure wrote:[quote="Autobot032]
You bring up a very good point. But don't be surprised if this is met with resistance, because it will be. Trust me.[/quote]

Of course it will be. If the Transformers fanbase has proven anything to me over the years it's that they're conservative, immature, and don't know what they want. This doesn't just stem from the films, but every new entry in the franchise. The films are just a more recent example.

TRUK NOT MUNKEY!!! anyone?[/quote]


You guys done stroking each other
s' ego?

To reply to what SlyTF1 actually said:
That could be possible, and I would be happy about it. He's taking a step in the right direction with Mark, so lets see.
The fact that he noticed so many people like the ride frightens me instead, as it seems like he is even more aware of people's love for anything transformers, and sees even further monetary potential for continued franchising of TF. As I said way before though, if it leads to more generations figures, whatever.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby NTESHFT » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:24 pm

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MINDVVIPE wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:[quote="Autobot032]
You bring up a very good point. But don't be surprised if this is met with resistance, because it will be. Trust me.[/quote]

Of course it will be. If the Transformers fanbase has proven anything to me over the years it's that they're conservative, immature, and don't know what they want. This doesn't just stem from the films, but every new entry in the franchise. The films are just a more recent example.

TRUK NOT MUNKEY!!! anyone?[/quote][/quote]

You guys done stroking each other
s' ego?

To reply to what SlyTF1 actually said:
That could be possible, and I would be happy about it. He's taking a step in the right direction with Mark, so lets see.
The fact that he noticed so many people like the ride frightens me instead, as it seems like he is even more aware of people's love for anything transformers, and sees even further monetary potential for continued franchising of TF. As I said way before though, if it leads to more generations figures, whatever.[/quote]



Good point there, MINDWIPE.

We can sit here and beat each other down over the loves and hates of Bayformers forever, but what does it really matter since it's going to happen, regardless. Same as you I've i may not be the biggest fan (by a long shot) of the past movies or the future ones to come granted that I'm sure they will be like the ones before, but it is keeping Transformers alive, and hopefully will help to bring out some I will like, such as the Generations, that I do like..........i try my best to be the "glass half full" kind of guy, myself.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby Burn » Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:29 pm

headsortails wrote:We can sit here and beat each other down over the loves and hates of Bayformers forever, but what does it really matter since it's going to happen, regardless.


What matters is that I told people to get off the whole "Bay Movies - Good or Bad?" debate about two pages ago because it's the same old debate that plagues virtually EVERY news thread relating to the movies and has gone on for the last five years AND NO NEW ARGUMENTS ARE PRESENTED!

Oh ... and obviously I was ignored too.

By multiple people.

Thanks for the respect guys. Good to know I have it.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:12 pm

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SlyTF1 wrote:Am I the only one who senses the possibility of a sort of... change of heart in Bay here? A revelation would probably be an even better word. I love the TF movies to death, but who's to say that Bay didn't slack on them thinking that they're just near-3 hour toy commercials instead of actual movies. From the sound of things, Bay being at the ride opening opened his eyes and he now understands that there are people who actually enjoy the movies A LOT. Perhaps he will actually try harder to give the people what they wanted from the first 3 movies because of that revelation. I don't know if I'm just talking out of my ass, but I'm curious to see whether or not my theory about Bay's dedication and effort in these movies is true.



Taking into account what Mindvvipe said, I think it can go one way or the other, but I'm somewhat optimistic about this.

In DOTM, Bay did make an effort to remedy some of the problems with the previous two movies--more involvement of the TF's in the actual plot, , less military "carpet bombing to solve everything" nonsense, etc. I actually like the guerrilla style tactics they employed to bring down the Cons.

Here's hoping.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby vectorA3 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:17 am

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I mean, just look at what a change in directors did for G.I. Joe. Retaliation was much better than ROC. Don't get me wrong, I like Sommers and enjoyed watching ROC, but Joe 2 was truer to the source material. Of course, having a 4 yr. wait between movies helped greatly too. (AKA not rushing the &%^$ out of a trilogy & making films during a strike) Looks like Paramount is in no hurry with GI Joe and Star Trek, which is fine, but as a TF fan I am very upset that the franchise was treated as garbage that didn't deserve the time, careful planning and effort that other properties -regardless of studio, get. Quality was clearly sacrificed for making a quick buck and a happy medium could've been reached, but no effort was made to do it. This isn't too much to ask.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby flyingKnuckleduster » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:19 am

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vectorA3 wrote:I mean, just look at what a change in directors did for G.I. Joe. Retaliation was much better than ROC. Don't get me wrong, I like Sommers and enjoyed watching ROC, but Joe 2 was truer to the source material. Of course, having a 4 yr. wait between movies helped greatly too. (AKA not rushing the &%^$ out of a trilogy & making films during a strike) Looks like Paramount is in no hurry with GI Joe and Star Trek, which is fine, but as a TF fan I am very upset that the franchise was treated as garbage that didn't deserve the time, careful planning and effort that other properties -regardless of studio, get. Quality was clearly sacrificed for making a quick buck and a happy medium could've been reached, but no effort was made to do it. This isn't too much to ask.


Agreed. Jon M Chu was a fan in GI JOE and it showed in the movie. I understand the money generated from these films fund other projects, but it doesn't mean you have to create mindless content. End of the day money talks, I hope one day a live action film is made that will rival the 1986 movie.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby vectorA3 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:37 pm

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100% agree. Again, I like Sommers and he was able to bring on a great actor for Zartan (Arnold Vosloo). Bay clearly didn't watch enough G1 to capture the real essence and heart of TF imo. But the writers and producers are partially to blame too. The 2007 film I'll maintain is the best of the 3, then DOTM, then ROTF.

Btw, saw Retaliation for the 2nd time last night. Still great on 2nd watch. Can't wait for the bluray. Firefly was wicked. Fave character in that one
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby DTR69 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:24 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:
DTR69 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
DTR69 wrote:I can speak for everyone here, yes I am talking on your behalf, tell me i am wrong. We all had the fantasy and dream that we thought would never happen, we all dreamt the day when a live action transformers movie would hit the screens. But it has happened in the worse way possible.


I stopped reading right there. You do not speak for everyone and you damn sure don't speak for me. You can just stop that line of thinking right there, pal.


So when you was a kid playing with transformers you never wished that they ould make a live action movie. You never wondered what it would be like if transformers were real. It's not about the movie its about wondering what they would really be like. Thats what playing with toys is all about, your imagining that it's real, you take on the roll, and for that brief moment in your head magic happens. I never used to play with my toys I used to line them up and stare at them, but it was going on in my head. I did play with transformers a few times, but when you line them all up and then prime says roll out, after you have transformed a few it's tea time, so I used to play with expendable toys that i could throw abouut and break, Transformers were to pretty to play with I loved looking at them and imagining.


Of course I wondered what it might be like, and hoped we'd get an adaptation one day. However you are the one here speaking for me, telling me that the results of a live action adaptation aren't what I wanted when, and I know this must rustle your jimmies something fierce, I enjoyed the hell out of them and consider them a worthwhile adaptation and a solid entry in the franchise as a whole.

I'll reiterate: You don't speak for me, let alone everyone.



The only person putting words in other peoples mouths is you. If you are going to make a comment on what I have said please read what I have said before you accusse me of something I didn't do.

I never said what your thoughts and feelings about the outcome of the movie were. All I said was that I speak for everyone regaurding the fact that we all dreamt of a Transformers live action movie. Yes I am going out on a limb and speaking for people becuase it's true, even if the actual thought of transformers and live action movie weren't on the money, in one way or another we all wondered what Transformers would look like in real life, and a live action movie is one way of that thought becoming more physical and real. When we play that is part of the thought process, we are bringing our play to life in our heads.

Like you said you stopped reading after I said I speak for everyone. If you didn't jump the gun you would of realised that I was just refering to the obvious fact and what is a childhood dream of all of us, and if it isn't you have no reason on being on this site.

What's even more weird is that MINDVVIPE corrected you straight after and pointed out that I was just stating the obvious, and wasn't refering to anything apart from the obvious. I then confirmed that MINDVVIPE was right in what he pointed out, I then explained what I ment. You are still accussing me of stating what your feelings and views are on the Live action movies that have been made, and that I am wrong in saying that everyone who was brought up loving Transformers, would dream of a Live action movie or even what Transformers would be like if they were real.

[/quote]

Capt.Failure wrote:With the personality you've displayed I consider that a blessing.

DTR69 wrote:Remeber When transformers came out there were also Go-Bots. Go-Bots was not good, and transformers were better. I enjoy watching the Transformers movie, but I hate it as a Transformers movie, yes it's fun to watch but I expected more. And so should you, thats why you are here and not on a Go-Bots site. We all love transformers lets not fight. It's bay we should kiil lol.
I think people need to realise that enjoying the film doesnt mean that you like it, but to say that thie films are a perfect outcome is ridiculous, and thats why people are harsh to people that back bay. Can anyone one really say that the films were the best they could of been, just becuase you like the movie doesn't mean you thought it was great, it shouldnt be people who hate the movie and people who love it, I hate the movie but i will still watch all of them becuase they are still fun, but not what I was hoping.
Bay is a smurf and you will get looked down at if you think he's the right person for the job. It's not being ignorant to other people opinions, sometimes there is a right and wrong answer and the answer is Bay is wrong.


And now you're confirmed for a troll. Should have known.



And now you are getting real personal and attacking my personality. And then you call me a troll, and again I was stating the obvious. If I was to start saying Hitler is a great guy, would people respect my opinion and say that there is no right or wrong answer. The fact is I would be entitled to my opinion but the fact is he wasn't a great guy, and people would look down on me and think that I wasn't very smart for defending his actions. Bay is not Hitler but anyone who says Bay is great at what he does is not going to be respected and is certainly not going to be thought of as someone who knows what they are talking about.
But lets not get enjoying the movie mixed up with being dissapointed that the movie didn't reach it's full potential. I watched all the movies and I will watch anymore that are made. I weven enjoyed watching them, but as Transformers movies I hate them. Anyone who knows about movies knows that Bay isn't going to deliver an action movie that is anything more than an action movie. There is no point in trying to argue or defend Bay. And people need to stop defending bay, just becuase you like dthe movie doesn't mean that Bay done a good job, and it doesn't mean you have to defend him to defend the fact you liked th emovie.
YOU CAN STILL HATE BAY BUT LIKE THE MOVIE.

So basically your reply to my comments is, I am faulse for stating something that is true and you agree with, and after someonelse pointed it out to you and I then explained to you. You then make up some stuff for good measure, then after I say I enjoyed the movies but hate them as TF films, you then state that it will annoiy me to hear that you enjoyed the movies.
I personally think you are just looking for an argument. You only see what you want to see, even after being explained to several times, you then make stuff up. You have called me and other people ignorant, and faulsely accused me of stuff I havent done.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby Autobot032 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:30 pm

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Alright, you two. This is getting out of hand and I foresee there being some problems if this continues. I want both of you to go back to your corners and stop this. If this continues, warnings might have to be handed out because it is getting personal, words are being put in other's mouths and people are speaking for one another.

None of that is respectful, none of that is civil, none of that adheres to what we stand for here.

Please stop, this is the last time I'm going to be nice about it.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby DTR69 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:17 pm

Wheelie Prime wrote:Wow, that’s an excessively aggressive reply. You’re very quick to take offense. Let me be clear: I’m not claiming a superior perspective or trying to offend you. So can we please refrain from immediately sinking to calling one another ignorant? Nobody’s saying that people who enjoy these movies are ignorant. It’s not necessary to tell me to keep my opinions to myself. That’s not constructive. Nor do you have to point out that every paragraph I write contains opinions. But it’s okay, you made some good points here and there, so I will indeed correct myself.

On the stories, what I’m saying is that we know that there are factors that contribute to qualitatively strong storytelling, and that these principles can be read and understood by anyone. You’re twisting my words to say that I’m saying you’re stupid and must not understand screenwriting if you like these movies. Or something like that. No. I’m just offering a basis for discussion other than “I liked the story/I didn't like the story," namely an answer to the question: “how do you define what makes a good story?" That’s not the same thing as saying it’s dumb to enjoy these movies. That would be absurd. I’m talking about all the technical and logical problems of the movies, in the story, the editing, the lighting, the special effects, etc. Yes, obviously many people don’t see them or ignore them and are able to thoroughly enjoy the movies, but that doesn’t mean these movies don’t have issues.

On the differences between franchises, again, not trying to offend. I’m saying that when we look at other franchises, it’s my opinion that it’s too bad that the Transformers franchise was given a director who was immediately so bent on creating his own vision of Transformers without immersing himself in the source material. Not saying you’re stupid, just saying it’s my opinion that such a divided fan base (on this topic) may attest to the fact that Transformers fans weren’t quite as fortunate in this respect as others.

On Marvel fans, they may well be more mature and intelligent than Transformers fans. I concede that point because I don't have the numbers. But I don’t see why that would necessarily boil down to a qualitatively poorer movie. After all, the target audiences for both these movie franchises are more or less the same.

As to whether not hating the films’ characters means hating Transformers, you’re right. Not what I wanted to communicate. What I meant was, if you like Transformers, like Decepticons, and like the movies, I still don’t see why you would be happy Bay made most of the Decepticons growling mutes, many of them without alt modes. I’m saying, if you like Devastator, of course you don’t have to hate movie Devastator, but that doesn’t mean it’s stupid to have hoped for something more than what we got or to be disappointed.

As I wrote earlier, if you are able to overlook their flaws and enjoy the movies, good. But just two plot holes? It would be trivially easy for you to spend five minutes to Google it and find a number far greater than that. Personally, I am simply disappointed by the quality of the films and that is not a controversial opinion. We’re talking about movies that have an average IMDB rating of 6.4, an average Rotten Tomatoes rating of not 38%, and were mostly panned by critics. But fine, you don’t appreciate the term “sucked." We’ll just have to say they lacked the necessary qualities for the audience and critics to appreciate them more thoroughly (Fact).

“I am quite experienced with what makes a good story." Correct yourself.
“Such a reasonable argumemt." Correct yourself.
“Your right." Correct yourself.


You hit the nail on the head, I'm so happy you mentioned a couple of things that I pointed out before the first movie got aired. You are right it's all about the respect given to the franchie and how it's handled. Marvel movies have been made with alot of respect to the original franchise. I personally can see loads of differences between the films and the comics, yet there is alot more respect given to what makes the franchise what it is. Bay set out to fix aload of things that weren't broken.
For a start there's the whole design and look of the transformers. This is another argument altogether, but if you look at all the iterations of the Transformers universes, they have eveolved alot over the years, and I am not a fan of most of them, but at the end of the day they are all obviously Transformers and maybe poorly designed, but they are obviously from the Transformers franchise.
Bays transformers, are radically different, so different to the point where they are unrecognisable as transformers.
Why is this such a problem. The problem is Transformers are not the only transforming robots out there. The problem is transformers is loved by aload of people, and the characters are unique looking and the franchise as a whole has a certain look that has been adered to over the years. The whole point of the movie is to cash in on the Transformers popularity and take what makes transformers popular and bring it too life and present it to an already established audience and a potentialy new fanbase.

Lets look at some other franchises that have been brought to life.

Mortal Kombat Vs Street Fighter : Live Action movies.
Street Fighter was a big Budget flop compared to Mortal Kombat which was a lower budget attempt but which was more true to the Mortal Kombat franchise than the Street Fighter movie was to it's franchise. Both movies weren't great but Mortal Kombat gave better justice and represented it's franchise far better than Street Fighter which was modified and changed alot, and it was loosing and altering key elements which was it's downfall.

Super Mario Vs Tomb Raider : Live Action Movies.
Again Super Mario was totaly altered for the big screen where as Lara croft was recognisably Lara croft from the video game. If a franchise has key elements that won't work on the big screen then maybe it shouldn't be made for the big screen becuase then it's a different product altogether.



So basicaly the evidence shows that when a Live action movie of a franchise and stays true to the key elements from story to design and looks, then the finished product will have those elements that made the franchise popular in the movie, and if done well will make for a good film and a good representation of the franchise. When the elements are removed or altered drasticaly for the big screen then the evidence shows almost no good can come from it.

It's not just about making a good film it's about doing justice to a franchise, and taking what makes the franchise popular and putting that on screen, if you ignore those elements than essentialy you are putting a different product on screen.


The reason Bay altered the look we all know wasn't becuase the look wouldn't work on big screen, there are plenty of fan made cgi clips showing that it works fine, obviously there would be refinement, there are design features and limitations to the toys becuase they are toys, so people who say g1 wouldn't work are contradicting themselves and not realising that G1 is a concept, rather than some blocky toys, they have the best designs in the whole franchise it's just a pitty they had production limitations unlike todays incarnations. the same way the movie toys are altered becuase of limitations, is the same way the limitations in g1 designs and other TF universes, would be altered and removed when designed for big screen.

Bay didn't have faith in the look that transformers have lived with for all these years, and more importantly, he didn't have faith that Transforming robots would wow an audience, not unless you took that stement and put it on steroids. Bay made the transformers over the top, thousands of moving bits just to show off how far cgi has come. Even thedesigners said the transformation didn't make real sense, THe actual transformation was eye candy. The actual process is cut at one point , so the actual transformation wouldnt work, so there are 2 models one for the transformation to altmode, which just goes into a mess, and in the mess it's cut to another model which is a mess which transforms into the alternative mode. All that mess is just eye candy. And I would have been much more impressed with a design that had a working transformation and one that had less going on so you could actually focus on it's beauty. Just like the rest of the film constant flasing cut scenes is very flash but thats it, you don't get a chance to admire and take in all the effects.


And yes to everything else you have said. I think I actually enjoyed the movie a bit more than you, but as a Transformers movie I hated it. ANything with giant robots no matter how poorly designed they are has some enjoyment factor for me. But I saw so much potential in the concept of a Transformers live action movie, and Bay didn't deliver. Why can't people who like the movie accept the fact that bay can't deliver on something he is no good at. Just becuase people love/like the film doesn't mean they have to defend bay. If I was to slate Germany, you don't defend Hitlers actions. Hitler is factualy a bad man, you can not argue that point, so when you defend bay you automaticaly loose the argument. When people say that people who hate what bay has done are ignorant, it's not an opinion you are challenging it's a fact. And people are hating the fact that Bay has underwhelmed them with the movies.
The fact that alot of people could have done a better job than Bay, means that people are justified with wanting to see better results. It's so odd that people who are making these comments are on a Transformers FanSIte and they obviously have a passion for TransFormers, but are quite happy to settle for rubbish. On top of settling for less, why attack people who are passionate about wanting the best from a franchise that they love.

Lastly, it's us people who are the so called haters of the movie, that are actualy being respectful and polite. It's the people who love the movie that are calling the haters names and saying they are worng about having an opinion, especialy when certain opions are almost fact. At least us haters can explain ourselves and break it down. And the reason we write so much waffle is becuase you all clearly don't get it, it's not an argument we are looking for. And why are we wrong for having an opinion just becuase it's different from yours. And why are facts and opinions being blurred.

We should expect more, I don't want to enjoy a Transformers Live action movie, I want to be blown away.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby DTR69 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:29 pm

Autobot032 wrote:Alright, you two. This is getting out of hand and I foresee there being some problems if this continues. I want both of you to go back to your corners and stop this. If this continues, warnings might have to be handed out because it is getting personal, words are being put in other's mouths and people are speaking for one another.

None of that is respectful, none of that is civil, none of that adheres to what we stand for here.

Please stop, this is the last time I'm going to be nice about it.


I haven't got a problem with anyone, I just don't like being accussed of things I haven't done, it has been explained already.
It's obvious that we are passionate about transformers, and we are obviously passionate about the Live Action movie, so to say that people are wrong for being disapointed and o have such negative opinions about something we all expected alot from. Just becuase people liked the movie, doesn't mean that people who hate the mvoie are challenging those who liked the film. Everyone deep down, wants the best from and for Transformers. It's not the movie the problem is with, the problem is that the movie was a representation of our passion, and the attack isn't with those who like the movie. People who are being offended by peoples negative opinions need to understand that the negativity isn't towards them, and they need to understand that the negativity isn't towards the movie, it's towards the subject matters use in the movie, but that's just part of it, I am only stating a few things that I have noticed that i and others agree on, but I enjoyed the movie, others out right hate the movie, but I hate the fact that it's a representation of TFs more than they hate the movie lol. The fact is that people should try and find out what it is that they are assuming is a challenge to them. It's not black and white it's not peole who like and don't like the movie, it's far more complex than that.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:02 pm

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DTR69 wrote:For a start there's the whole design and look of the transformers. This is another argument altogether, but if you look at all the iterations of the Transformers universes, they have eveolved alot over the years, and I am not a fan of most of them, but at the end of the day they are all obviously Transformers and maybe poorly designed, but they are obviously from the Transformers franchise.

I've been a Transformers fan for as long as I can remember and I've never liked the simplistic designs. They're supposed to be robots, but because the designs are so simple the cartoons always had to cheat with the transformations. Parts would shrink away to nothing while other parts would show up out of thin air. The movie designs are exactly what I've been wanting to see since G1. Transformers that look like they actually transform, instead of morphing from one form to another.
Lets look at some other franchises that have been brought to life.

Mortal Kombat Vs Street Fighter : Live Action movies.
Street Fighter was a big Budget flop compared to Mortal Kombat which was a lower budget attempt but which was more true to the Mortal Kombat franchise than the Street Fighter movie was to it's franchise. Both movies weren't great but Mortal Kombat gave better justice and represented it's franchise far better than Street Fighter which was modified and changed alot, and it was loosing and altering key elements which was it's downfall.

Super Mario Vs Tomb Raider : Live Action Movies.
Again Super Mario was totaly altered for the big screen where as Lara croft was recognisably Lara croft from the video game. If a franchise has key elements that won't work on the big screen then maybe it shouldn't be made for the big screen becuase then it's a different product altogether.



So basicaly the evidence shows that when a Live action movie of a franchise and stays true to the key elements from story to design and looks, then the finished product will have those elements that made the franchise popular in the movie, and if done well will make for a good film and a good representation of the franchise. When the elements are removed or altered drasticaly for the big screen then the evidence shows almost no good can come from it.

The movies are true to the key elements. Alien robots that change into vehicles are in a war that comes to Earth. The Autobots are the good guys and the Decepticons are the bad guys. Transformers has rarely been deeper than that.
The reason Bay altered the look we all know wasn't becuase the look wouldn't work on big screen, there are plenty of fan made cgi clips showing that it works fine, obviously there would be refinement, there are design features and limitations to the toys becuase they are toys, so people who say g1 wouldn't work are contradicting themselves and not realising that G1 is a concept, rather than some blocky toys, they have the best designs in the whole franchise it's just a pitty they had production limitations unlike todays incarnations. the same way the movie toys are altered becuase of limitations, is the same way the limitations in g1 designs and other TF universes, would be altered and removed when designed for big screen.

Bay didn't have faith in the look that transformers have lived with for all these years, and more importantly, he didn't have faith that Transforming robots would wow an audience, not unless you took that stement and put it on steroids. Bay made the transformers over the top, thousands of moving bits just to show off how far cgi has come. Even thedesigners said the transformation didn't make real sense, THe actual transformation was eye candy. The actual process is cut at one point , so the actual transformation wouldnt work, so there are 2 models one for the transformation to altmode, which just goes into a mess, and in the mess it's cut to another model which is a mess which transforms into the alternative mode. All that mess is just eye candy. And I would have been much more impressed with a design that had a working transformation and one that had less going on so you could actually focus on it's beauty. Just like the rest of the film constant flasing cut scenes is very flash but thats it, you don't get a chance to admire and take in all the effects.

You seem to be hung up on the designs. I don't see how changing the designs of the Transformers is any different from Ironman. Have you seen what his suit looked like in the early comics? It was horrible, it looks like plumbing parts on yellow spandex. That would look awful in a live action movie.

And yes to everything else you have said. I think I actually enjoyed the movie a bit more than you, but as a Transformers movie I hated it. ANything with giant robots no matter how poorly designed they are has some enjoyment factor for me. But I saw so much potential in the concept of a Transformers live action movie, and Bay didn't deliver. Why can't people who like the movie accept the fact that bay can't deliver on something he is no good at. Just becuase people love/like the film doesn't mean they have to defend bay. If I was to slate Germany, you don't defend Hitlers actions. Hitler is factualy a bad man, you can not argue that point, so when you defend bay you automaticaly loose the argument. When people say that people who hate what bay has done are ignorant, it's not an opinion you are challenging it's a fact. And people are hating the fact that Bay has underwhelmed them with the movies.
The fact that alot of people could have done a better job than Bay, means that people are justified with wanting to see better results. It's so odd that people who are making these comments are on a Transformers FanSIte and they obviously have a passion for TransFormers, but are quite happy to settle for rubbish. On top of settling for less, why attack people who are passionate about wanting the best from a franchise that they love.


Right here you're stating opinions as fact. You're telling us that the movies are factually bad and we shouldn't like them.

Lastly, it's us people who are the so called haters of the movie, that are actualy being respectful and polite. It's the people who love the movie that are calling the haters names and saying they are worng about having an opinion, especialy when certain opions are almost fact. At least us haters can explain ourselves and break it down. And the reason we write so much waffle is becuase you all clearly don't get it, it's not an argument we are looking for. And why are we wrong for having an opinion just becuase it's different from yours. And why are facts and opinions being blurred.

I've seen far more insulting, condescending, hyperbolic posts from those who hate the movies than from those who liked them. Things like "These movies are cinematic abortions", "If you like them you aren't a real fan", "I could make a better movie in my sleep" and worse.
We should expect more, I don't want to enjoy a Transformers Live action movie, I want to be blown away.

You're expecting too much. Something is always going to fall short when you set your sights way too high.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby MINDVVIPE » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:36 pm

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Since we're talking about designs, the classics/generations figures have it down, and so does IDW and the game. The movies didn't have to look G1, but they could have looked closer to those versions, and I would have liked that better. I will say I do like some of the movie figures, as they definitely bring something new and interesting to my collection. I mix my collection into one universe anyway, and having figures from different lines makes them look more naturally diverse.
Off topic, but I wish we got some of the alien races that are featured in the comics, would be sweet.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby Capt.Failure » Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:39 pm

MINDVVIPE wrote:Off topic, but I wish we got some of the alien races that are featured in the comics, would be sweet.


I keep suggesting that Quintesons should show up. Give them the eldritch horror angle, maybe rewrite them as the heralds of Unicron.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby Burn » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:44 am

MINDVVIPE wrote:Since we're talking about designs,


Actually we're suppose to be talking about Bay and Wahlberg and what they were saying about TF4.

But people seem hell bent to ignore the wishes of staff members instead of just taking it to threads where the topics are much more suited as it would attract other people and create an even more interesting discussion.

At least that's how I see it, but what do I know? >:oP
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby njb902 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:02 pm

I wonder if mark will still be bulked up or if he is going to lose the weight from pain and gain?
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby DTR69 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:09 am

Evil_the_Nub wrote:
DTR69 wrote:For a start there's the whole design and look of the transformers. This is another argument altogether, but if you look at all the iterations of the Transformers universes, they have eveolved alot over the years, and I am not a fan of most of them, but at the end of the day they are all obviously Transformers and maybe poorly designed, but they are obviously from the Transformers franchise.

I've been a Transformers fan for as long as I can remember and I've never liked the simplistic designs. They're supposed to be robots, but because the designs are so simple the cartoons always had to cheat with the transformations. Parts would shrink away to nothing while other parts would show up out of thin air. The movie designs are exactly what I've been wanting to see since G1. Transformers that look like they actually transform, instead of morphing from one form to another.
Lets look at some other franchises that have been brought to life.

Mortal Kombat Vs Street Fighter : Live Action movies.
Street Fighter was a big Budget flop compared to Mortal Kombat which was a lower budget attempt but which was more true to the Mortal Kombat franchise than the Street Fighter movie was to it's franchise. Both movies weren't great but Mortal Kombat gave better justice and represented it's franchise far better than Street Fighter which was modified and changed alot, and it was loosing and altering key elements which was it's downfall.

Super Mario Vs Tomb Raider : Live Action Movies.
Again Super Mario was totaly altered for the big screen where as Lara croft was recognisably Lara croft from the video game. If a franchise has key elements that won't work on the big screen then maybe it shouldn't be made for the big screen becuase then it's a different product altogether.



So basicaly the evidence shows that when a Live action movie of a franchise and stays true to the key elements from story to design and looks, then the finished product will have those elements that made the franchise popular in the movie, and if done well will make for a good film and a good representation of the franchise. When the elements are removed or altered drasticaly for the big screen then the evidence shows almost no good can come from it.

The movies are true to the key elements. Alien robots that change into vehicles are in a war that comes to Earth. The Autobots are the good guys and the Decepticons are the bad guys. Transformers has rarely been deeper than that.
The reason Bay altered the look we all know wasn't becuase the look wouldn't work on big screen, there are plenty of fan made cgi clips showing that it works fine, obviously there would be refinement, there are design features and limitations to the toys becuase they are toys, so people who say g1 wouldn't work are contradicting themselves and not realising that G1 is a concept, rather than some blocky toys, they have the best designs in the whole franchise it's just a pitty they had production limitations unlike todays incarnations. the same way the movie toys are altered becuase of limitations, is the same way the limitations in g1 designs and other TF universes, would be altered and removed when designed for big screen.

Bay didn't have faith in the look that transformers have lived with for all these years, and more importantly, he didn't have faith that Transforming robots would wow an audience, not unless you took that stement and put it on steroids. Bay made the transformers over the top, thousands of moving bits just to show off how far cgi has come. Even thedesigners said the transformation didn't make real sense, THe actual transformation was eye candy. The actual process is cut at one point , so the actual transformation wouldnt work, so there are 2 models one for the transformation to altmode, which just goes into a mess, and in the mess it's cut to another model which is a mess which transforms into the alternative mode. All that mess is just eye candy. And I would have been much more impressed with a design that had a working transformation and one that had less going on so you could actually focus on it's beauty. Just like the rest of the film constant flasing cut scenes is very flash but thats it, you don't get a chance to admire and take in all the effects.

You seem to be hung up on the designs. I don't see how changing the designs of the Transformers is any different from Ironman. Have you seen what his suit looked like in the early comics? It was horrible, it looks like plumbing parts on yellow spandex. That would look awful in a live action movie.

And yes to everything else you have said. I think I actually enjoyed the movie a bit more than you, but as a Transformers movie I hated it. ANything with giant robots no matter how poorly designed they are has some enjoyment factor for me. But I saw so much potential in the concept of a Transformers live action movie, and Bay didn't deliver. Why can't people who like the movie accept the fact that bay can't deliver on something he is no good at. Just becuase people love/like the film doesn't mean they have to defend bay. If I was to slate Germany, you don't defend Hitlers actions. Hitler is factualy a bad man, you can not argue that point, so when you defend bay you automaticaly loose the argument. When people say that people who hate what bay has done are ignorant, it's not an opinion you are challenging it's a fact. And people are hating the fact that Bay has underwhelmed them with the movies.
The fact that alot of people could have done a better job than Bay, means that people are justified with wanting to see better results. It's so odd that people who are making these comments are on a Transformers FanSIte and they obviously have a passion for TransFormers, but are quite happy to settle for rubbish. On top of settling for less, why attack people who are passionate about wanting the best from a franchise that they love.


Right here you're stating opinions as fact. You're telling us that the movies are factually bad and we shouldn't like them.

Lastly, it's us people who are the so called haters of the movie, that are actualy being respectful and polite. It's the people who love the movie that are calling the haters names and saying they are worng about having an opinion, especialy when certain opions are almost fact. At least us haters can explain ourselves and break it down. And the reason we write so much waffle is becuase you all clearly don't get it, it's not an argument we are looking for. And why are we wrong for having an opinion just becuase it's different from yours. And why are facts and opinions being blurred.

I've seen far more insulting, condescending, hyperbolic posts from those who hate the movies than from those who liked them. Things like "These movies are cinematic abortions", "If you like them you aren't a real fan", "I could make a better movie in my sleep" and worse.
We should expect more, I don't want to enjoy a Transformers Live action movie, I want to be blown away.

You're expecting too much. Something is always going to fall short when you set your sights way too high.


You are totaly missing the pint and missinterpreting what I'm saying.
1: I'm not saying that the movies are bad full stop and that no one can like them. I even stated that I enjoy watching them. But the difference is as action movies they are fun, but as far as Bay is concerned, and his represenation of transformers, it's a fail. It's not about people enjoying the movie, it's about the fact that it could of been more true to the franchise with less of Bays influence.
2: Of course Ironmans suit has evolved and so has transformers, but the evolution isn't in keeping with the franchise. Look at the masterpiece line, see how that is refined, it's still from blocky g1 toys, but refined. The live action movie transformers don't transform, read what the designers have said about there transformation, it's all show, they cant technically go from one form to the other. The live action transformations have moving parts just to show off, it's totaly unecessary, and they actualy make the design weaker, as skimpy parts break off alot easier than fewer thicker parts, they should just transform as much a sthey need to no more and no less. The g1 cartoon isn't part of my defence as thats why I wanted a live action movie, becuase the way the cartoon cut corners etc.And as for morphing, why does bumblebee have the power to transform from one car to another in a second, and the same for all of them when they land and choose an alt mode, they can all magicaly morph, but they then have to mechanicaly move parts to transform, why don't they do there morphing trick again. Thats cutting corners. Bay or whoever couldn't think of a way to fit that showed how they got there alt modes, so they just magicaly change.
3: I'm not expecting to much, I was blown away from the animated movie.

Again all the points you make I have explained already, thats why I write so much becuase I'm covering all angles.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby vectorA3 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:57 am

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No more Bay. 4 films is enough. Give a new or different director a chance. I really don't want him on in producing capacity as well, but this will probably still happen.

Bay reinvigorated the franchise, made it very flashy -for better or for worse, combined the live-action well with the CG and provided spectacle. However, the 2nd movie was rushed and suffered severely with all of its jumping around, and all of the films (minus the first) did not have character development/needed a better story. Mindless action not as good as meaningful character driven action. 20-30 min. could've been cut out of ROTF and DOTM as well. Unnecessary, useless, junk. Too much human involvement. A little too much objectification of women was a problem as well. A strong female character was not introduced until DOTM - Frances McDormand's character (Director Mearing).

We've heard all of these nitpicks over and over, but as TF fans we all want films we can be proud of such as the Nolan Batman films and Marvel films. It's hard to defend the Bay films (if you love TF as much as I do and hate to see it being disparaged) when you know there are many mistakes/missteps.

Also, imo, the G.I. Joe films are doing the property better justice and I'm happy for Joe fans. I'm a fan as well.

Wahlberg --shut up & stop bugging Bay to direct more TF films!

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Michael Bay and Mark Wahlberg Talk Transformers 4

Postby TripleHHH28 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:50 pm

Michael Bay - "Dwayne's hurt tonight. He was pushing it too hard. [He] needs to grow up and stop wrestling 300-pound men."

Annonymous Response

"Hmmm John Cena is 250 and Punk is 220 pounds, the last 300 pound man that Rock faced was in 2003. Michael Bay needs to shut the hell up and know his damn role, just because he directed one movie that had Rock starring in it doesn't mean he can tell Rock what to do and interfere in his personal life."

Couldn't of said it better myself. Also, maybe Michael Bay should stop making movies for 2 year olds, and grow up himself.
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