Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Burn wrote:Don't forget because "they can do better"!

Yeah. To give up being part of a near-trillion dollar movie studio because of artistic differences. I'm sorry to say, but there's no amount of self-discipline or elitism this side of Ralph Waldo Emerson or the Dalai Lama that can make me, them or anyone else in this world do that. Remember people, $$$. It's the bottom line. And what makes Bay so successful is that not only does he understand this fact of life, he embraces it and thrives on it like Chuck Norris does on his victims' pain and suffering.

And that just gave me another idea: a movie starring Chuck Norris and directed by Michael Bay.

Rodimus Prime wrote:And that just gave me another idea: a movie starring Chuck Norris and directed by Michael Bay.

Five years ago, when that was still funny, maybe. Now? Eh, find a new meme, make a movie about that.

I love all three movies but a fourth movie isn't really possible in my eyes. Every Decepticon was killed, the only way you could continue the series is by preditably bringing elements from season 3 of G1. Or you could come up with a new story but this is Michael Bay we're talking about.

At the end of the day, the last one made a billion dollars, so they won't just leave it like this. Hopefully they will go through with a fourth film but take advantage of its potential. I heard that even Peter Cullen would like to see another movie. For the time being we got Prime and Fall of Cybertron so I'm not going to run out of stuff to do.

Shadowman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:And that just gave me another idea: a movie starring Chuck Norris and directed by Michael Bay.

Five years ago, when that was still funny, maybe. Now? Eh, find a new meme, make a movie about that.

Yeah, Chuck Norris is getting old. Still gave me a chuckle, which made it worth posting.

In the previous 3 movies, did Bay work for a fee or a percentage of the box office?

KikXel wrote:I love all three movies but a fourth movie isn't really possible in my eyes. Every Decepticon was killed, the only way you could continue the series is by preditably bringing elements from season 3 of G1. Or you could come up with a new story but this is Michael Bay we're talking about.

At the end of the day, the last one made a billion dollars, so they won't just leave it like this. Hopefully they will go through with a fourth film but take advantage of its potential. I heard that even Peter Cullen would like to see another movie. For the time being we got Prime and Fall of Cybertron so I'm not going to run out of stuff to do.

The story is far from over. A brilliant writer could come up with something fresh. Something we haven't thought of.

A good writer could take elements of G1 as mentioned, introduce Gaivatron, Cyclonus and Scourge. Or Jhiaxus from G2. Or a new character. Plus, not all of the grunt drone Decepticons were destroyed. Only the crews in Chicago were pulled back into the event horizon, it didn't show the entire planet.

Sentinel Prime and crew departed Cybertron during the war. Who's to say Decepticons didn't do the same? Makes it very easy to introduce Jhiaxus as A032 said.

Burn wrote:Sentinel Prime and crew departed Cybertron during the war. Who's to say Decepticons didn't do the same? Makes it very easy to introduce Jhiaxus as A032 said.

I've said it before...I think you can open up a new can of mythos by simply asking the question, "Why did the Fallen turn on the other Primes?" What if it wasn't on philisophical differences? I would submit that you can have a powerful but subtle voice whispering in his ear, turning him away from his brethren with promises of ultimate power and rule. Maybe the other Primes ignored the voice, but he was susceptible. And so he turned. And as such you can begin a story about how Unicron contacted the Fallen and swayed him with promises of power. Unicron can create new characters easily, but the conflict will be the presence of the solar needle on Earth.

First-Aid wrote:

Burn wrote:Sentinel Prime and crew departed Cybertron during the war. Who's to say Decepticons didn't do the same? Makes it very easy to introduce Jhiaxus as A032 said.

I've said it before...I think you can open up a new can of mythos by simply asking the question, "Why did the Fallen turn on the other Primes?" What if it wasn't on philisophical differences? I would submit that you can have a powerful but subtle voice whispering in his ear, turning him away from his brethren with promises of ultimate power and rule. Maybe the other Primes ignored the voice, but he was susceptible. And so he turned. And as such you can begin a story about how Unicron contacted the Fallen and swayed him with promises of power. Unicron can create new characters easily, but the conflict will be the presence of the solar needle on Earth.

I'm pretty sure they made that clear in ROTF. He dd it because he wanted to harvest energon from the sun and he hated humanity, so he turned on his brothers because they wouldn't let him.

SlyTF1 wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

Burn wrote:Sentinel Prime and crew departed Cybertron during the war. Who's to say Decepticons didn't do the same? Makes it very easy to introduce Jhiaxus as A032 said.

I've said it before...I think you can open up a new can of mythos by simply asking the question, "Why did the Fallen turn on the other Primes?" What if it wasn't on philisophical differences? I would submit that you can have a powerful but subtle voice whispering in his ear, turning him away from his brethren with promises of ultimate power and rule. Maybe the other Primes ignored the voice, but he was susceptible. And so he turned. And as such you can begin a story about how Unicron contacted the Fallen and swayed him with promises of power. Unicron can create new characters easily, but the conflict will be the presence of the solar needle on Earth.

I'm pretty sure they made that clear in ROTF. He dd it because he wanted to harvest energon from the sun and he hated humanity, so he turned on his brothers because they wouldn't let him.

I never really saw a hatred of humanity there. Contempt, yes, but not hatred. And my question would be this: why would he want to harvets energon so desperately that he would turn against the other Primes?

Personally I'm disappointed Bays doing the fourth, theres plenty of talent out there and, although DOTM was the best up to now, it had too many Bay-isms in there, all the human scenes were like L'oreal adverts, JUST SHOOT THE DAMN DIALOGUE MICHAEL!! However, where do we go with the 4th??... well I wouldn't be averse to a Dinobot/Beast Wars theme running paralell on another world, Prime intercepting a distress beacon from Maximals and heading to a jungle planet, think Predators with Autobots!!!.. they could get rid of their vehicle modes for this film once they hit the jungle..think of the amount of toys you could shift here Hasbro??

First-Aid wrote:I never really saw a hatred of humanity there. Contempt, yes, but not hatred. And my question would be this: why would he want to harvets energon so desperately that he would turn against the other Primes?

It could be that he didn't like having to skip over planets just to protect species he (Most likely) viewed as inferior, and Earth was where he decided he's not going to follow that rule anymore.

JOP wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Michael Bay is driving a car. He's keeping it from crashing. It's hard to do that when the car is built by Orci, Kurtzman, Rogers and Kruger. They didn't give it brakes, or a steering wheel, so it's impossible for Bay to control the car. And before anyone says "Well, he shouldn't have driven the car to begin with." Well, like us, he was mislead. He was given a pat on the back and told "Enjoy!"

Your analogy is fallacious. A more accurate analogy would be: Michael Bay is in charge of a project to build a new car. Many other people contribute to the design and construction of this car; some have more responsibility, some less. All answer to Michael. Orci, Kurtzman and Kruger are responsible for the design of the engine. Unfortunately, the design they turn in is sub-par; however, it is retained. A number of people criticize Michael Bay for allowing a faulty engine to be incorporated into the vehicle; his defendants propose that the blame for the engine lays primarily with the engine designers, and not with the project manager that signed off on it.

Yeah... the blame still lies mostly with the guys who designed a bad engine. The designer of the whole car has to worry about whether the frame should be steel or aluminum, will the airbags deploy correctly, should the seats be made of leather, does anyone still drive a stick shift anymore, where to install the flux capacitor, etc... if you show him an engine that seems to work well enough on the factory floor, then that has to be good enough for him, and it's not his fault if the thing explodes 2 minutes after leaving the parking lot.

First-Aid wrote:To be fair to Orci and Kurtzman, they have given us the gem that is Transformers: Prime,

...which, thankfully, they didn't write a single word of...

as well as a wonderfully geeky reboot of Star Trek.

...which, like the RotF, is an incredible amount of fun while you're watching it as long as you pretend to not notice the absolutely ridiculous plot holes and contrivances.

I don't blame them for ROTF, I actually hold the deadline accountable.

True. You can only blame them for TF07.

SlyTF1 wrote:

First-Aid wrote:ROTF was bad plot-wise

How?

http://io9.com/5301898/michael-bay-fina ... e=true&s=i

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/bon ... 2_faqs.php

Rodimus Prime wrote:And that just gave me another idea: a movie starring Chuck Norris and directed by Michael Bay.

I would SO pay to see that!

cotss2012 wrote:http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/bonus_robs_transformers_2_faqs.php

While I do agree ROTF is a bad movie, most of the stuff he says in there is just really stupid.

EDIT: NM

Shadowman wrote:

cotss2012 wrote:http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/bonus_robs_transformers_2_faqs.php

While I do agree ROTF is a bad movie, most of the stuff he says in there is just really stupid.

Oh really?

So how do the Decepticons plan to get the symbols, I guess?
Well, the Decepticons have very cunningly created a hot chick robot who they enrolled in the same college and put in the same astronomy class as Sam. And they made her a huge slut.

Wait.
Waiting.

There's a slutty Decepticon?
Yeah, she's a real ho. The Decepticons apparently have an incredibly powerful slut-making program, because she has it down, man. Anyways--

Didn't Sam touch the shard and get the symbols stuck in his head on his first day of college?
Yes.

So the Decepticons made a slutty robot to attend his college and enrolled her in classes and put her in on-campus housing just in case Sam ended up being important at some point in the future?
Apparently. It was an elaborate plan, but it sure paid off.

How so?
Well, not at all. The slut-bot made out with him for a little bit then immediately tried to kill him, neither for any apparent motive or gain.

Yes, there is stupidity here, but it's not coming from the article's author.

cotss2012 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

cotss2012 wrote:http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/06/bonus_robs_transformers_2_faqs.php

While I do agree ROTF is a bad movie, most of the stuff he says in there is just really stupid.

Oh really?

Ya really.

Are there honestly 46 new Transformers in the movie?
I have no **** clue. It's impossible to tell most of them apart except for Optimus and the Racist Twins (there's another yellow Autobot who I constantly thought was Bumblebee). There could be 46, or there could be 12. I honestly would believe 12 if someone had said that.

What does that even mean? How does he just think it's Bumblebee? Was calling him Bumblebee not enough, did they have to paint a big sign on him saying "THIS IS BUMBLEBEE"?

Why is this scary? All he wanted was the Allspark, and now it's gone.
...because he has a boss! He's called the Fallen, because he's so evil! He has an evil plan to use a machine on Earth to blow up the sun and make energon! Or something! It's not very clear.

It's extremely clear. Destroy the sun, make Energon. Hell, they even explain why he's called The Fallen, both in this and in War Within. And also Exiles but I'm trying not to bring Aligned into this.

And why couldn't an Autobot translate these symbols?
Because Bumblebee is mute and the Racist Twins are poor black robots from the slums of Cybertron who never learned how to read. It's a sad commentary on Cybertronian society. Like The Wire, actually.

Which is why Bumblebee could also read them...no, wait, he couldn't either. Nor could Wheelie. They needed an ancient Transformer to read the ancient Cybertronian text. And he'd have realized this is he paid any sort of attention.

I actually didn't read past the first page. Too much stupid for my brain to handle.

Then please, help yourself to some highlights.

So that other mysterious reason that the Decepticons wanted Sam's brain? It's because it contains some very vague clues about the Matrix of Leacdership, which is the device that turns on the sun-exploding machine. The Fallen needs the Matrix to blow up the sun and get his Energon.

Hold on. That's what the Matrix of Leadership does in the movie?
Yes. Works the sun-exploding machine.

I'm fuzzy on how "Leadership" covers that.
I didn't name it. But it does sound a little nicer than "Matrix of Blowing Up the Goddamn Sun."
If I may continue, in order to protect the Earth, the 6-7 other Prime hid the Matrix on Earth and made a tomb with their own bodies. Isn't that cool?

...
...

No. No it is not. If they wanted to protect Earth, why did they leave the Matrix on the planet? They're a space-faring race, they could have hid it anywhere in galaxy! Second of all, what the **** does making a tomb of their own bodies do? Shouldn't they have stayed alive to protect the Matrix? Or finish off the Fallen? Or just not die and leave Earth and the entire Transformer race in jeopardy?
Uh...

And why hide the Matrix at all? Don't they need Energon to survive? Didn't they say they go to other lifeless planets? These idiot Primes just doomed their whole species for no **** reason whatsoever! No wonder the Decepticons are so pissed.

What follows is the most spectacular part of the movie, as Sam and Mikaela try to run the several miles back to the military camp during a massive Decepticon attack where the military has dropped Optimus Prime's corpse.

Why is that awesome? They could drive back in one of the Autobots and be there in a minute or two.
They don't do that.

What?
They walk.

Of course they do. And I assume the Autobots just mysteriously disappear again until a second before a Decepticon is about to kill Sam.
Yes. Exactly.

Sam dies, though.

Really?
Yeah, for a little while. But then the Transformers in heaven send him back because he still has work to do.

**** you.
I'm serious.

**** you. There's no way.
It's true. The 6-7 Primes are there in the clouds like Mufasa's head in The Lion King, and tell Sam he's awesome and he needs to live again so he can bring Optimus back to life.

Why on earth would anyone make a film about giant robots but have myriad scenes of some random douchebag's first day of college?
I don't have the faintest clue.

Why does Sam's mom buy and consume a pot brownie?
Well, Sam's mom was in a coma for the last 30+ years, which explains how she had never heard of marijuana, and why she didn't understand the consequences of eating it even after her husband specifically told her it was a pot brownie (Sam was unfortunately conceived and born during this period). A better question is why any college student in America would be selling pot brownies at an on-campus bake sale, let alone to a middle-aged woman.

A lot was made of how Shia the Beef's hand injury was written into the film. How was this done?
Well, sometimes Shia had a huge bandage on his hand, and sometimes he didn't.

That doesn't sound "written in" at all.
Well, no actual words are used to explain it. It might be more accurate to say it "shows up sometimes."

Why would a robot need to fart, pee, or vomit? And why would it need testicles?
Michael Bay does not understand what a robot is.

What is the point of the character of Sam's college roommate, and why the **** does he stay for the entirety of the movie?
I have no clue. He's not comedy relief, because that's covered by 90% of the Transformers themselves. He technically leads the Beef to John Turturro, but surely there could have been another way to do that. Besides, Turturro just leads them to Jetfire anyways. It's all extraneous.

Why can only a Prime kill the Fallen? Why can Jetfire teleport? Why can the Fallen wave a staff and make **** fly around? Why do actual cars and Autobots get sucked into Devastator's maw, but John Turturro and that other kid can run around?
Because... because **** YOU, that's why.

If you had to pick a single scene that exemplifies Michael Bay's utter disdain for story and continuity, what would it be?
When five Decepticons sink to the bottom of the ocean to retrieve Megatron's corpse. A submarine tracks five "subjects" going down, and when they get there, one of the Decepticons is killed to give parts to Megatron. 5 -1 +1 = 5, right? No, because the sub somehow tracks "six" subjects coming up. Not only is this very basic math, this is the simplest of script errors. It could not possibly have been more than one page apart in the script. And yet Michael Bay either didn't care to notice or didn't give a ****. "Math? Math is for pussies. My movies are about **** blowing up, man."

Could you sum up the film in one line of its dialogue?
"I am standing directly beneath the enemy's scrotum."

That's all fine and dandy. It doesn't change the fact that some of the things he says are just really damn stupid and make it look like he didn't even watch the movie.

So cotss2012's latest attempt to convince us to hate the Bay movies (clearly we must be too stupid to think for ourselves if he's making this much effort) is to quote some keyboard warrior most people probably wouldn't give a toss about.

Funny.

Uh, wrong. Read the whole exchange. SlyTF wanted evidence that RotF had a crappy plot. I linked to said evidence. Then Shadow decided "I didn't even finish the first page of one of the articles that you linked to, but I'm going to dismiss all of it anyway", so I cited some highlights.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to hate Bayformers, I'm just trying to convince you that they have stupid, horrible plots. There's a difference, you know. For example, The Chronicles of Riddick had a pretty lame plot, but I absolutely loved that movie anyway just because it was pure "Rule of Cool".

cotss2012 wrote:Uh, wrong. Read the whole exchange. SlyTF wanted evidence that RotF had a crappy plot. I linked to said evidence. Then Shadow decided "I didn't even finish the first page of one of the articles that you linked to, but I'm going to dismiss all of it anyway", so I cited some highlights.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to hate Bayformers, I'm just trying to convince you that they have stupid, horrible plots. There's a difference, you know. For example, The Chronicles of Riddick had a pretty lame plot, but I absolutely loved that movie anyway just because it was pure "Rule of Cool".

You could have picked better articles. Like, ones where the first point doesn't express uncertainty as to which one Bumblebee is, or keeps saying they don't explain certain things that are actually well explained.

The plot of the movie is fine. The movies worst flaws are all in dialogue, and the attempts at humor. Not even all the dialogue, most of it. Jetfire, for instance, is a is a crotchety old ball of Win, and I actually really liked this incarnation of Wheelie. Most of the returning humans (Simmons and NEST in particular) are fine. The rest of the new characters, ah, not so much.

cotss2012 wrote:Uh, wrong. Read the whole exchange. SlyTF wanted evidence that RotF had a crappy plot. I linked to said evidence.

No, you linked to an OPINIONATED article.

Answer me this truthfully. Do you understand the following sentence?

"Opinion does NOT equal fact".

I'm just trying to convince you that they have stupid, horrible plots. There's a difference, you know. For example, The Chronicles of Riddick had a pretty lame plot, but I absolutely loved that movie anyway just because it was pure "Rule of Cool".

O.P.I.N.I.O.N.

Wanna keep debating this? Go right ahead. All you do each time is discredit and embarrass yourself.

Were I stand?
Movie 1- Practically Perfect

Movie 2- I actually laughed at alot of those jokes I now think are dumb, balls and all. My main dealio was WTF Were did Barricade run off to? Maggy? Glen? Anyone? No? Ok then...

Movie 3- Were are the twins? Were's Jolt? were's the surviving Arcee bikes? Leo? Hey, they didn't really explain mikaila leaving very well. It's been four years? Ok, so what? How did it happen? were'd the "We discovered an alien race together and survived the apocolypse TWICE and are planning to get married and risk our lives for eachother" POOF, Gone. I'm guessing emotional stress? How did soundwave become a mercedes exactly? He was a truck last I checked, Oh well, put one and the other together, imagination... OH! Barricade Cameo! *DEAD* aww...
OK.
In alot of ways, TF3 was the GREATEST of the three, but also the worst, as it had the most flaws! I mean, so many missing characters, both bot and human, explained in the comics or not, not everyone can read them ya know, Jolt's dead? How would I know that unless I saw it on the big screen, huh? I mean, to people who don't know the comics exist, that can be VERY Complicated (Of course, if they know enough about who's who and why, they should know about the comics, like me) But that doesn't mean they've actually even held one! I havn't, Iv'e just seen certain pages online, that's how I know Jolt's dead, and in TF4, expect MORE of this. Mirage/Dino will be gone because the voice actors dead, Rest his Soul, and the bots iminent demise will probably be explained in a game or a comic book that I won't be able to ever read or play due to poor funds and lack of a game system because my PS3 Crashed Dammit!
:/rant/

Characters randomly and inexplicably disappearing, and those that reappear die abruptly? That sounds awfully familiar...

Shadowman wrote:You could have picked better articles. Like, ones where the first point doesn't express uncertainty as to which one Bumblebee is, or keeps saying they don't explain certain things that are actually well explained.

Tough talk coming from someone who read less than 1/4 of the given material.

Shadowman wrote:The plot of the movie is fine.

Which one? The first had about an hour of meaningless pseudo-plot about computer viruses and barbecued gators that ultimately went absolutely nowhere. The second was.. well, the storytelling was so beyond horrible that I didn't even have the chance to catch the smaller plot holes because my brain was constantly reeling from the barrage of huge plot holes. The third seemed good enough for a while, but then the entire last hour was just random footage from Battle: Los Angeles. So... which one had a plot that you'd call "fine"?

Shadowman wrote:Jetfire, for instance, is a is a crotchety old ball of Win, and I actually really liked this incarnation of Wheelie.

Jetfire is an annoying attempt at comic relief and his G1 cartoon counterpart is easily a hundred times more worthy of the silver screen ever being seen or heard from again.

Shadowman wrote:Most of the returning humans (Simmons and NEST in particular) are fine.

True... "useless but inoffensive" is easily preferable to "useless and offensive".

Burn wrote:No, you linked to an OPINIONATED article.

Answer me this truthfully. Do you understand the following sentence?

"Opinion does NOT equal fact".

Do you understand the following sentences?

"A forum is a place for people to express opinions"

"A plot that is nothing more than a 2-and-a-half-hour-long parade of contrivances, coincidences, contradictions, holes, potty humor, and irrelevant nonsense is basically a crap worthless plot"