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5150 Cruiser wrote: Couple of things..
First, the whole problem with that aurgument is no one ever bring up the first comics for source material. Its always G1 and the stories of G1.

"no one ever bring up the first comics for source material"???I do all the time, I'm sure I'm "some one".

And I have seen many others bring it up.And even if they dont, its irrelevant, fact is comic was first, it doesnt matter if its mentioned in debates.

the point is the source material (whitch includes the comics)just wasn't very good in terms or stories, plot, dialogue and everything else many complain about the movies.

the think is that the comics did indeed have its share of good examples of "good stories, plot, dialogue and everything else"

It may not have been 100% of the time, but it was at least close to half.

Second,.."Deep thinkers??" I'm sorry, but early TF comics were anything but that.

I said they had matrial the appealed to deep thinkers, and they did.

And when exactly did they come out? According to what i could find out, they came out roughly the same time the series did.

you need to do better research.

Marvels US G1 TF #1 was released/first went on sale on May 22 1984.

The G1 cartoon pilot first aired in the US on September 17, 1984...........almost 4 months later.

Even if there were a couple good stories, and deep thinking, that's very little (if any) good material to take from. Thats like saying..
"Ya, i know we had a hundred or so bad, corny stories, but there were one or two really good ones. The movie writers should have taken material from those two stories."

there were more then a few, but even if, as I pointed out, the idea of taking a product out of 1 medium and bringing it to a major film is based on the idea of doing it better then it has been donr.

So, I dont see the flaw in thinking they should have tried to improve on what those 2 stories had done.......as your senerio suggest.

(at least nothing swe inspiring).

whats "awe inspiring" would differ depending on who you ask.............and again, I down see anyone asking for awe inspiring "stories, plot, dialogue and everything else"

Autobot32 ,and you are wrong.When it comes to source material, TF fiction has had quite a few good examples to go by.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Autobot32 ,and you are wrong.When it comes to source material, TF fiction has had quite a few good examples to go by.

Then i guess were just going to have to agree to disagree. They were what they were. 80's comics made to apeal to young kids. Now that's not bad. They did there job and they did it well. But there stories weren't ground break, nor did they apply to any deep thinkers. But one things for sure..

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:whats "awe inspiring" would differ depending on who you ask..............

And that's pretty much been my point though this whole debate. What you might concider good stories, better writing etc.. Is largely subjective.

5150 Cruiser wrote: Then i guess were just going to have to agree to disagree. They were what they were. 80's comics made to apeal to young kids. Now that's not bad.

agreeing to disagree is cool, but Marvel hasnt, in genarl, ever marked their comics for kids only, and the TF comic from Marvel doesnt break from that. Marvel target the G1 comic at teens, or as they like to call them "young adults".

And that's pretty much been my point though this whole debate. What you might concider good stories, better writing etc.. Is largely subjective.

and even in that, good writing, good acting, is mensurable.

I havel seen anyone ask for an Oscar level acting performance, or a story/script that is awe inspiring.

But we at least deserved not to have a character repeat the same line

NatsumeRyu wrote:Yeah, that's something like what I meant to say. Basically, we're looking for the people who work on a smaller budget, because I find they tend to be more passionate beyond the money.

I can understand that. Also, I suspect that a reduced budget would also shift focus away from the summer blockbuster market; and in turn, reduce pressure to produce a more mercenary end product.

Autobot032 wrote:A better script is fine, I have no problem with that, but the movie going public and their money clearly prove our desires aren't even on the companies back burner, and more likely nowhere near the place to cook food.

I think at its simplest, the problem is this: Michael Bay can be held directly responsible for both the poor directorial quality of the three Transformers films, and their phenomenal financial success; his ability to deliver the latter ensures that his failure to correct the former will go unquestioned by the monetarily motivated likes of Hasbro and Paramount. The future involve of Michael Bay, or a Michael Bay-like director, strongly suggests that critical quality issues will go unaddressed.

Autobot032 wrote:"mercenary bent" I...like that. I really do. That's pretty good. We can hope all we want, there's nothing wrong with it, no laws against it, etc. My problem is, I hate to see so many people get their hopes up so high, only to have them dashed on the rocks below. And they will be dashed. HARD.

Indeed; at this time, there does not appear to be any evidence to suggest that a change in directorial direction will occur - ergo, we can expect more of the same. I think I bring the matter up because I find some fans positing that the current focus on financial success somehow negates criticism of the films in general - a stance I disagree with both on logical grounds, and because I believe it is important that someone, somewhere attempts to maintain high expectations.

Autobot032 wrote:DOTM should give you hope. It shows they're trying to branch out and go places they hadn't gone before, emotionally.

I do agree that Dark of the Moon represented the zeitgeist of the learning curve for Bay and his crew; however, I also worry that certain elements - such as the character fatalities - were more indicative of a desire to round out the trilogy, and not necessarily suggestive of an effort to heighten the emotional stakes per se.

Autobot032 wrote:Maybe I'm too much of a realist, I don't know, but that's how I see it. What we've gotten so far has exceeded my expectations on some fronts, failed on others. It's just what I've come to expect.

I can understand that; it's a sensible position to undertake. By contrast, I'm an idealist - although I recognize the potential futility of my position. Still, I have to try - I might lack direct agency, but at least I can provide a voice of reason...

5150 Cruiser wrote: My point was more in lines of Autobot32's. I'm not in any way opposed to better writing, script etc. If they can make it work while still keeping the action then great. My point was while many felt the script, plot and story was lacking in the movies, I did not. As did many others. I felt for the most part they were just fine and did not only what they were supposed to, but exceeded.

Thank you for clarifying matters; you have greatly improved my understanding of your position. Suffice to say, I do not agree with your assessment of the presence of the critical qualities under discussion within the Transformers trilogy; however, I do respect your stance. Perhaps we can discuss the matter in a new thread.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:again thank you.

That's what I'm here for.

I don't know if anyone else saw this but I figured I'd post it.

UPDATE: Bay himself has spoken out about directing TF4, and though the studios are pushing for his involvement, Bay is still weighing his options:


Right now I’m not decided on Transformers 4… Studio’s are passing rumors but I’m not sure what I’m doing? I know I’m going to do Pain and Gain early spring but that’s it for right now. I’m leaving all my options on the table. I’ve got several Studio meetings in the next two weeks.

What we do know is that there’s already a rough plan in place for the film since producer Don Murphy already came out and said the next film would not be a prequel and that it would continue the franchise’s focus on human characters in an effort to kickstart a second Transformers trilogy. According to Vulture, this remains true and TF4 will “delve deeper into Transformers canon to mine older characters and lore.” One of their insiders says the following that we can take as a hint:


”Regular people might not care about bringing out a character like Sentinel Prime. But believe me, fans of the series cared.”

Fans who saw Transformers: Dark of the Moon understand that it would be difficult to continue the series as is due to how of the characters ended up by the story’s conclusion. We can therefore expect radical changes and plethora of new characters, perhaps even mining stories from some of the other animated television series.

Expect Transformers 4 to release in summer 2014.

The whole story was found here.

Blackmoon wrote:I don't know if anyone else saw this but I figured I post it.

UPDATE: Bay himself has spoken out about directing TF4, and though the studios are pushing for his involvement, Bay is still weighing his options:


Right now I’m not decided on Transformers 4… Studio’s are passing rumors but I’m not sure what I’m doing? I know I’m going to do Pain and Gain early spring but that’s it for right now. I’m leaving all my options on the table. I’ve got several Studio meetings in the next two weeks.

What we do know is that there’s already a rough plan in place for the film since producer Don Murphy already came out and said the next film would not be a prequel and that it would continue the franchise’s focus on human characters in an effort to kickstart a second Transformers trilogy. According to Vulture, this remains true and TF4 will “delve deeper into Transformers canon to mine older characters and lore.” One of their insiders says the following that we can take as a hint:


”Regular people might not care about bringing out a character like Sentinel Prime. But believe me, fans of the series cared.”

Fans who saw Transformers: Dark of the Moon understand that it would be difficult to continue the series as is due to how of the characters ended up by the story’s conclusion. We can therefore expect radical changes and plethora of new characters, perhaps even mining stories from some of the other animated television series.

Expect Transformers 4 to release in summer 2014.

The whole story was found here.

Cool. Bring it.

Autobot032 wrote:Now see? You and I would do just fine. It might get heated a time or two, but we're on the same page when it comes to the respect issue. I commend you for being able to admit that on the board, in a topic such as this.

Absolutely. To be sure, the live-action movies have a certain polarizing quality (a problem inherent to mainstream adaptations of subculture material, I suspect); however, this aspect is often and unnecessarily exacerbated across the boards by new and old fans alike. There is no reason as to why we can't conduct ourselves civilly and, in the true spirit of debate (as opposed to pointless polemics), learn a little about one another in the process.

So Michael Bay was just confirmed to direct Transformers 4 in 2014. And the enitre fandom cried to their mommies that it's just not fair and that Michael Bay's the Antichrist and that, oh, it's a given that it will suck, but I say...

CALM THE FRAG DOWN

No director is in complete control of every aspect of a movie. In most movies, there's a thing called a script, which writes down every line of dialogue and everything that happens in the movie. And the great thing is, it's usually written by completely different people. And IMBA* the first movie got by on a funny, realistic script from the best pair of blockbuster screenwriters out there: Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman. The second movie failed because it was rushed after the writers' strike, and that's that.

We know who the director will be. We know nothing about who the writers will be. Unless Michael Bay decides he's Orson Welles now and has to direct, write, and star in all his movies, we have very little to worry about. For all we know, Charlie Kaufman is gonna turn around and write the most mind-blowingly brilliant piece of Transformers fiction ever written. Something not even good old MB could completely ruin. So get a grip.

*I don't use IMO. I use IMBA (I May Be Assassinated).

I'm sick of the whining too. It's been going on for 5 years and most of it is crap. "Optimus has flames so I'm going to make death threats on Michael Bay." "Ironhide isn't red so the movies suck just because of that." I've heard less whining from fat kids on a diet.