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Chaoslock wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:I'm not sure if this applies to the old cartoons, but in the newer ones wasn't Shredder just a machine controlled by tiny pink aliens?

I searched in the theme about a week ago, and Shredder in the new cartoon was: a. originally a human; b. the mentioned ultrom alien possessing a robot body that looks like Shredder; c. a computer program - all three of them battled the turtles and each other.

In the 2003 cartoon, the first Shredder shown in the series was revealed to be a Utrom criminal named Ch'rell masquerading as the human Oroku Saki, A.K.A. the Shredder.

He had taken the name of an ancient Japanese warrior of the same name, who had surrendered his soul to a Tengu demon that merged itself with his body back in Feudal Japan. This Demon Shredder had been defeated and sealed away in ancient times, not long before the Ultrom spacecraft containing Ch'rell was sabotaged by himself and crash-landed on Earth in Japan. Ch'rell heard of the Shredder's legend and took the name and mantle of the Shredder/Oroku Saki for himself. He established the Foot Clan in Japan and, centuries later, relocated to New York City, where he would come to the hated enemy of the Turtles.

After he was finally defeated by the Turtles, his adopted daughter Karai, in revenge for her father's disgraceful exile, took up the mantle of the Shredder for herself, to carry out her father's legacy.

Afterward, the Tengu demon Shredder was resurrected and made himself enemies both the Turtles and Karai, who were grudgingly forced to team up to stop his godlike reign of demonic tyranny. And after his defeat, the Turtles and Karai made peace with each other.

Upon return to the present day after their time-jump into 2105, the Turtles inadvertently brought back the sentient virus entity Viral with them (she was one of their enemies in the future). After a last battle against the Turtles, a weakened Viral retreated to cyberspace, seeking a source of power to revitalize herself. She stumbled onto a data storage container belonging to the Foot Clan.Upon trying to access it, she released a digital copy of Ch'rell's personality, which uploaded itself into Viral, overtaking and destroying her personality and reconstructing itself into the identity of the Cyber Shredder, who was trapped in cyberspace and would try every way possible to manifest his very being into the physical world. Until then, he could infiltrate and infect systems for his use, and eventually did reach the physical plane near the end of the series.

In the Turtles Forever movie, the 1987 cartoon Shredder accidentally wound up in the 2003 cartoon's universe due to a dimensional incident with his Technodrome during a recent fight against the 1987 cartoon Turtles. Seeing how there were now eight Turtles in this dimension, his decided to locate and summon the Shredder of this universe, which came up as being Ch'rell, the Utrom Shredder (the Demon Shredder was dead, Karai was no longer wearing her father's armor and title, and the Cyber Shredder had been destroyed). He teleported Ch'rell from his ice asteroid exile, rebuilt his armored suit, and teamed up with him (though, 2003 Shredder took command over 1987 Shredder due to 2003 Shredder being more "vicious, lethal, competent"). The Mirage Comics Shredder also made a cameo, but his appearance was brief, as he was knock off a building by the 1987 Turtles throwing trash cans at him.

DISCHARGE wrote:I just can't believe the creators of the TMNT signed off on the idea of making them aliens.

And there ya go. The creators are on board with the idea so if the "fans" want to be-head anyone it should be them.

Bay is just producing, not directing, so the blame can't be put on him anyhow. BUt i guess its just easier to hate on him.

5150 Cruiser wrote:Bay is just producing, not directing, so the blame can't be put on him anyhow. BUt i guess its just easier to hate on him.

He's still heavily involved (Producer is an important role in the story) and approves of this.

Burn wrote:In typical anti-Bay rage, the masses grab their pitchforks before understanding.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertain ... 8758.story

"Fans need to take a breath, and chill. They have not read the script. Our team is working closely with one of the original creators of Ninja Turtles to help expand and give a more complex back story," Bay wrote. "Relax, we are including everything that made you become fans in the first place. We are just building a richer world."

Oh and Bay's just producing, so blaming him for this is kind of silly as he's not directing, he's not writing, he's just producing. Point your pitchforks in a different direction.

This.

I dunno, the producers in movies have a lot of say in what goes in and what doesn't go into a film. Look at any movie Tim Burton has produced.

Also: John Peters wouldn't produce Wild Wild West unless it had a giant spider in it, and he got it!

Is it me or has mentioning Michael Bay become a sort of personality test? It's like as soon as his name is mentioned people with some certain gene get pissed off and start spewing bullcrap from their keyboards before they know whats going on. It's fascinating really, someone should do a study on that.

I do hate the idea of the turtle being aliens. I'd say that's on par with was done to the Mario Bros. movie. But I'm being calm and rational about it.

I've defended Bay through a lot of criticism on this website, but this....

What MIGHT disgust me most, is TMNT changed to Aliens would be TANT. TANT? It sounds like a ebonics/redneck hybrid word!

Hi All,

Now I know how much you guys cherish TF like I do, and there is always debate on the movies and what it did to this wonderful franchise of ours (good or bad). But general consensus is that Michael Bay, treated the franchise without respect.
This is not about TF ,so I don't want to go there.

This is about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
If you grew up in the 80s or 90s, and even the new TMNT shows, you may have strong emotions about the treatment of this also wonderful franchise. A franchise that inspired a generation.

If you haven't heard, Bay is on board for a TMNT movie project, and he's already started by claiming they're gonna be aliens. And asked fans to Chill out!

So I'm asking you all, who have connection with the TMNT universe, to voice your opinions on this. Or else it will end up being like TF. Feeling used and spat on (that's IMO).
The reason I'm bringing this up here, is that we, the TF fans were the first victims. We lost it, we were hit, and it would be worse if we see our little brother get hurt by this menace too.

Transformers 4 having Bay is already an issue.

But please don't allow this to happen to TMNT. I feel the childhood of many will be once again ruined.


If you guys have seen the southpark episode of Indiana Jones being violated by Lucas and Spielberg, and the so true message of that episode. Please don't let that happen to TMNT.

So what can we do to help TMNT fans?


This is an open thread, try not to make it a hate or flamewar. It's meant for support ( I think we need a TF support group btw)

Thanks
Bud

Bah, I ain't gonna complain. I'd go see it. Aliens or not, I'm interested.

I also find it funny and kinda want to give Bay my money as an act of solidarity.

We had different flavors of TMNT, why not alien? From all accounts, this sounds like a new universe, a reboot. I have no problem with that.

He's working with one of the creators, so if that guy's signing off on it, it can't be too bad.

If it were in the same universe, I could see the complaints, but this? Geez.

Hide your childhoods, they're raping everyone!

Sabrblade wrote:

RhA wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

RhA wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And taking into account the TMNT multiverse as established in the Turtles Forever movie, the concept of the Turtles being aliens simply CANNOT work, as all TMNT universes stem from the same source, in which the Turtles are mutated Earth turtles. Making them aliens simply violates the fundamental nature of their existence in this multiverse, otherwise they aren't "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", but instead are "Teenage Mutant Ninja Aliens" or Teenage Alien Ninja Turtles".

Aliens can't be turtles? We have tons of contradictions in te TF universe. It's fiction, anything can work.

The TMNT themselves can't be aliens if they're all tied to the original Mirage Turtles, who were indeed mutated Earth turtles. Recall when Shredder broke down thew 1987 and 2003 Turtles to their most basic elements to trace their substantial existence back to the Mirage Turtles. If he were to do the same with extraterrestrial TMNT, they wouldn't have those base elements due to not being of a similar nature to the Mirage Turtles. In every incarnation of the TMNT franchse, the Turtles have all been almost the exact same kind of lifeform. Being extraterrestrials would negate that with the ones in this movie.

True, but only if the previous series are regarded. This does not seem to be the case.

Of course the previous media would have to be regarded. Otherwise, they'd be better off making a completely new movie with non-preexisting characters and concepts.

If they want to make a new movie franchise about alien turtles who come to Earth and fight crime as ninjas, then by all means, they should go ahead and do so. Why, make it be a spoof or homage to the TMNT, with little references and such. But don't make it actually BE a TMNT movie, cuz that's not what TMNT is about.

They shouldn't simply rewrite the fundamental aspects of what makes TMNT be TMNT. Take those away, and it's not TMNT anymore. This is knockoff-level of diversity, here. The established origin formula in its most basic form (four baby turtles mutated into giant humanoid turtles who live in the sewers) has worked for every single incarnation of the franchise. If it's not broken, don't try to fix it.

A little change is okay. A lot of change to the point where the entire scheme of things is altered to an unfamiliar level is not okay.

...by you.

If a man-sized turtle (ha-hah) uses ninja skils to take down a robot ninja, I'm going to recognize it as a turtle. Backstory doesn't change that for me.

And again, why is this any more insane then the orginal backstory? It's a new twist on things, Splinter would probably say that change is not to be feared.

From a fellow transformers fan in the Allspark forum:

Dear TMNT Fans,

You have nothing to fear about Michael Bay ruining your precious turtles. Mostly because they will only appear in 15% of the entire TMNT film.
The plot will center mostly around the annoying boy wants girl, girl rejects boy, girl falls for boy, girl and boy banter over who-loves-who romance (insert puke icon)
Don't worry—Splinter will not offer the young lovers sagely advise; he'll be mute.

-censored this part- The most important thing here is that you will see lots of gratuitous panty shots, and slapstick human stupid.
Now that mutant turtles are a 'race', you will be introduced early to a pair or of 'new' turtles: Mario and Luigi, and hilarity will ensue when you laugh at their adorable antics and strangely offensive stereotype excuse-of-a-personalities.
And speaking of personality: Mike, Leo, Don and Ralph won't be doing much of either—speaking, OR personality. But they WILL be super cool and all badass with lots of explosions, shaky cam and dirt.

There will be endless dirt.

Enjoy.

With sympathy,
Your Transformer Fan Friends

Topics merged.

P.S. Still loling at the Bay haters unable to understand the concept of Producer and how it's not their fault, if that were the case we'd be hunting Don Murphy.

RhA wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

RhA wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

RhA wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And taking into account the TMNT multiverse as established in the Turtles Forever movie, the concept of the Turtles being aliens simply CANNOT work, as all TMNT universes stem from the same source, in which the Turtles are mutated Earth turtles. Making them aliens simply violates the fundamental nature of their existence in this multiverse, otherwise they aren't "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", but instead are "Teenage Mutant Ninja Aliens" or Teenage Alien Ninja Turtles".

Aliens can't be turtles? We have tons of contradictions in te TF universe. It's fiction, anything can work.

The TMNT themselves can't be aliens if they're all tied to the original Mirage Turtles, who were indeed mutated Earth turtles. Recall when Shredder broke down thew 1987 and 2003 Turtles to their most basic elements to trace their substantial existence back to the Mirage Turtles. If he were to do the same with extraterrestrial TMNT, they wouldn't have those base elements due to not being of a similar nature to the Mirage Turtles. In every incarnation of the TMNT franchse, the Turtles have all been almost the exact same kind of lifeform. Being extraterrestrials would negate that with the ones in this movie.

True, but only if the previous series are regarded. This does not seem to be the case.

Of course the previous media would have to be regarded. Otherwise, they'd be better off making a completely new movie with non-preexisting characters and concepts.

If they want to make a new movie franchise about alien turtles who come to Earth and fight crime as ninjas, then by all means, they should go ahead and do so. Why, make it be a spoof or homage to the TMNT, with little references and such. But don't make it actually BE a TMNT movie, cuz that's not what TMNT is about.

They shouldn't simply rewrite the fundamental aspects of what makes TMNT be TMNT. Take those away, and it's not TMNT anymore. This is knockoff-level of diversity, here. The established origin formula in its most basic form (four baby turtles mutated into giant humanoid turtles who live in the sewers) has worked for every single incarnation of the franchise. If it's not broken, don't try to fix it.

A little change is okay. A lot of change to the point where the entire scheme of things is altered to an unfamiliar level is not okay.

...by you.

If a man-sized turtle (ha-hah) uses ninja skils to take down a robot ninja, I'm going to recognize it as a turtle. Backstory doesn't change that for me.

And again, why is this any more insane then the orginal backstory? It's a new twist on things, Splinter would probably say that change is not to be feared.

I'm all for mixing a few things up to keep it fresh, but they're taking the mutant and turtle out of teenage mutant ninja turtles.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

RhA wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

RhA wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

RhA wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And taking into account the TMNT multiverse as established in the Turtles Forever movie, the concept of the Turtles being aliens simply CANNOT work, as all TMNT universes stem from the same source, in which the Turtles are mutated Earth turtles. Making them aliens simply violates the fundamental nature of their existence in this multiverse, otherwise they aren't "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", but instead are "Teenage Mutant Ninja Aliens" or Teenage Alien Ninja Turtles".

Aliens can't be turtles? We have tons of contradictions in te TF universe. It's fiction, anything can work.

The TMNT themselves can't be aliens if they're all tied to the original Mirage Turtles, who were indeed mutated Earth turtles. Recall when Shredder broke down thew 1987 and 2003 Turtles to their most basic elements to trace their substantial existence back to the Mirage Turtles. If he were to do the same with extraterrestrial TMNT, they wouldn't have those base elements due to not being of a similar nature to the Mirage Turtles. In every incarnation of the TMNT franchse, the Turtles have all been almost the exact same kind of lifeform. Being extraterrestrials would negate that with the ones in this movie.

True, but only if the previous series are regarded. This does not seem to be the case.

Of course the previous media would have to be regarded. Otherwise, they'd be better off making a completely new movie with non-preexisting characters and concepts.

If they want to make a new movie franchise about alien turtles who come to Earth and fight crime as ninjas, then by all means, they should go ahead and do so. Why, make it be a spoof or homage to the TMNT, with little references and such. But don't make it actually BE a TMNT movie, cuz that's not what TMNT is about.

They shouldn't simply rewrite the fundamental aspects of what makes TMNT be TMNT. Take those away, and it's not TMNT anymore. This is knockoff-level of diversity, here. The established origin formula in its most basic form (four baby turtles mutated into giant humanoid turtles who live in the sewers) has worked for every single incarnation of the franchise. If it's not broken, don't try to fix it.

A little change is okay. A lot of change to the point where the entire scheme of things is altered to an unfamiliar level is not okay.

...by you.

If a man-sized turtle (ha-hah) uses ninja skils to take down a robot ninja, I'm going to recognize it as a turtle. Backstory doesn't change that for me.

And again, why is this any more insane then the orginal backstory? It's a new twist on things, Splinter would probably say that change is not to be feared.

I'm all for mixing a few things up to keep it fresh, but they're taking the mutant and turtle out of teenage mutant ninja turtles.

So? During the run of the original cartoon the word 'ninja' was replaced by 'hero' over here. Semantics.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore

budmaloney wrote:I don't want to live on this planet anymore

Bye!

RhA wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:I'm all for mixing a few things up to keep it fresh, but they're taking the mutant and turtle out of teenage mutant ninja turtles.

So? During the run of the original cartoon the word 'ninja' was replaced by 'hero' over here. Semantics.

Despite their being called "heroes", they were still so obviously ninjas due to their fighting styles and training. Heroes can be ninjas without the term "ninja" being used.

Now had that cartoon had its visuals altered to the point at which the Turtles' fighting styles were something other than Ninjitsu or any non-Asian martial arts, then that would be too drastic a change as it changes the foundational nature of what they are: Ninjas.

Same goes for this aliens bit changing another foundational part of their nature: Mutants and/or Turtles.

I've never really liked TMNT but this news still makes me angry!

Leave it alone, Bay!

Accidental double post. Sorry.

budmaloney wrote:I don't want to live on this planet anymore

Start a trend, man! Take the rest with you!

t

5150 Cruiser wrote:

DISCHARGE wrote:I just can't believe the creators of the TMNT signed off on the idea of making them aliens.

And there ya go. The creators are on board with the idea so if the "fans" want to be-head anyone it should be them.

Bay is just producing, not directing, so the blame can't be put on him anyhow. BUt i guess its just easier to hate on him.

Yea, but is this a case of the creators actually being on board or a case of "Alan Moore is super exited about what we die with the V for Vendetta movie!"?

You know, when Bay says that he's working with "an original creator" of the ninja turtles, that could be anyone. I mean, unrealistically, he could be working with an inker for the comic, or the guy who did the shading. Or someone who had no final say in the origin of the turtles even but who did the original work.

Realistically though, it's probably the original writer. I wouldn't know to be honest, I havn't been following the story very closely except to watch fan reactions.