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crazyray wrote:Right for the Headmasters, but a lot have not seen that storyline so for us unfortunate, just trying to bridge the gap.

The Headmasters is post-season 3, not part of the season 2-movie gap.

And, now that it's on DVD in the U.S., there's little stopping one from going out and buying it to watch.

Where could I find this on DVD in the US???

crazyray wrote:Where could I find this on DVD in the US???

Anywhere that sells DVDs. I've seen it at Target, Wal-Mart, Toys'R'Us, Best Buy, MovieStop, I think even at Kmart.

Here's the Amazon.com listing.
http://www.amazon.com/Transformers-Japanese-Collection-Hiroko-Emori/dp/B004UFE2XM/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1332256029&sr=1-1

And a trailer.

Thank you Saberblade! I have NEVER seen that before in any location. I suppose I'll have to keep my eyes a little more peeled.

Oh, and so I don't look like a complete MAH-ROON:

i know Huffer was confirmed dead, but we never actually see him die. That is what I am working on, a story giving these Autobots never seen again (In the US continuity) an honest death.

However my free time is short. Been working on since 2009. Something concrete should be in place by 2020 !

crazyray wrote:Thank you Saberblade! I have NEVER seen that before in any location. I suppose I'll have to keep my eyes a little more peeled.

Though it's out now, I'm waiting for the complete boxed set of The Headmasters, Chōjin Masterforce (Super-God Masterforce), and Victory. The full set is already available on Shout! Factory's website, but I'm waiting for the retail release.

Although, this will be the third time I get these three series since I own both the complete DVD box set of all three from Metrodome (which I imported from the UK), and the downloaded fansubbed episode releases from TV-Nihon. And, frankly, all three releases are imperfect.

There's also the DVD set released by Madman in Australia, but I didn't get it since it's basically the same as the UK Metrodome release (complete with all that set's imperfections), only with some different bonus content and some (beautiful) new cover artwork.

Sabrblade wrote:

crazyray wrote:Is it commonly accepted that Skyfire was blowed up real good in Dark Awakening?

No. That was likely just a jet that used his animation model.

And, he's shown alive and well in The Headmasters.

crazyray wrote:I'm am working on a story to bridge the gap between the last episode of Season 2 and the Animated Movie and I need to know if he should get a death scene or not.

The Japanese have filled in a lot of the gap between season 2 and movie, so there is fiction that exists between the two.

crazyray wrote:And while we're at it...can we name charecters that were not seen in the movie AT ALL and generally accepted they died? Such as...

Trailbreaker
Sideswipe
Gears
Inferno
Red Alert
Blue Streak
Hoist
Grapple

Who else am i forgetting? I have notes elsewhere on another computer, but would like to get a concensus...

Huffer was confirmed dead in "Dark Awakening". Though, many season 1 and 2 character showed up alive a well in The Headmasters.

The Headmasters also claims that Optimus Prime died while being casually shot during battle without any Autobot really caring.

So I wouldn't really look towards Headmasters to find out what happened to US continuity characters, especially considering that in Japanese continuity, The movie takes place between eason 3 and HEadmasters.

Dead Metal wrote:The Headmasters also claims that Optimus Prime died while being casually shot during battle without any Autobot really caring.

That was just quick summarizing of events to get people who hadn't seen FSRLTF and 2010 up to speed on things. it wasn't a literal representation of events.

Dead Metal wrote:So I wouldn't really look towards Headmasters to find out what happened to US continuity characters, especially considering that in Japanese continuity, The movie takes place between eason 3 and HEadmasters.

Um, what? The movie takes place between seasons 2 and 3 in Japan just as it does in America. It's set in 2005 in the Japanese dub just like in the English version. Only real difference being that season 3 is set in 2005-2006 in the U.S. but in 2010 in Japan.

crazyray wrote:Is it commonly accepted that Skyfire was blowed up real good in Dark Awakening? I'm am working on a story to bridge the gap between the last episode of Season 2 and the Animated Movie and I need to know if he should get a death scene or not.

And while we're at it...can we name charecters that were not seen in the movie AT ALL and generally accepted they died? Such as...

Trailbreaker
Sideswipe
Gears
Inferno
Red Alert
Blue Streak
Hoist
Grapple

Who else am i forgetting? I have notes elsewhere on another computer, but would like to get a concensus...

"commonly/generally accepted as dead" by who??

Sorry, but unless its seen or said..........its fan fiction.

Dead Metal wrote:The Headmasters also claims that Optimus Prime died while being casually shot during battle without any Autobot really caring.

Sorry, but I never got that messege.

So I wouldn't really look towards Headmasters to find out what happened to US continuity characters, especially considering that in Japanese continuity, The movie takes place between eason 3 and HEadmasters.

Ahhhhhhhh, excuse me?

It may have been released after season 3, but continuity wise, its my understanding that the film takes plase after Season 2 and Scramble city.

as far as it goes and this is what i can interpret how the continuity goes:

Season 1/Fight Super Robot Life
Season 2/ " "*
Scramble City (really a filler for the Japanese episodes, but does partially explain the introduction of Magnus & the rest of the Movie/Season 3 cast. Although it would be wise to note, especially to the more enigmatic of the forum, that Galvatron - Cast as a reformatted Megatron in the Movie - shows up as a regual rank and file trooper/New Lieutennant to Megatron in the First part of the short feature. AND, in other news, the second part of Scramble City was really a stop motion toy featurette that was pretty much a marketing slogan - or just a 15/20 minute stop motion advert)
Animated Movie
Season 3 (Transformers 2010)
Season 4 (Rebirth Mini Movie)
The Headmasters (Japanese Season 4)
Super God Masterforce (Japanese Season 5)
Victory (Japanese Season 6 - The final G1 animated season)

The japanese phased out the fourth season because they had their own headmasters - and a better line to it too because it makes better sense for there to be mini robots with big bodies. I certainly had a bit of a time of it - especially that I'm older (and because it wasn't explained how the head-forming worked, until Masterforce made it more plausible with the Masterforce Bands) - trying to figure it out.

In terms of continuity, the japanese tailored their episodes to be more cohesive in terms of story arc, so in the long-run, if someone was killed off in the series, or written off in the movie, the Japanese made sure that it carried on with the future episodes of the series.

That being said however, they didn't end G1 by not producing any more animated episodes, but they had a wealth of information in the literature (during and following the series that they had), and especially after the final episode for Victory where they went on to bring back Prime/Convoy as Star Convoy - Battlestars I beleive its called - with Rodimus Prime becoming his micro-master companion (The appearance of the first Minicon Companion perhaps?), and they went from there with another manga only series - i think it was Zone with the introduction of Dai Atlas, and then finally we had Gen2.

~pause for breath~

Is it me or do the japanese have a better grasp of story structures for a toy promotional line? Ok lets take Beast Wars, Beast Machines and the recent Transformers Prime out of the equation as they were definately more story/event driven because they took what happened in previous episodes and ran with it to drive the later episodes!

However, SabrBlade, do you think the American release of the "Japanese Three" would be superior to the UK/Austrailian releases? Ok I will give you that there is the time to learn from the Mistakes of the previous releases, but what do you think would make it a superior version?

Not looking for a war, just your thoughts on why? Or is there something you know that your not telling us?

this is making my brain hurt

Baneblade wrote:as far as it goes and this is what i can interpret how the continuity goes:

Season 1/Fight Super Robot Life
Season 2/ " "*
Scramble City (really a filler for the Japanese episodes, but does partially explain the introduction of Magnus & the rest of the Movie/Season 3 cast. Although it would be wise to note, especially to the more enigmatic of the forum, that Galvatron - Cast as a reformatted Megatron in the Movie - shows up as a regual rank and file trooper/New Lieutennant to Megatron in the First part of the short feature. AND, in other news, the second part of Scramble City was really a stop motion toy featurette that was pretty much a marketing slogan - or just a 15/20 minute stop motion advert)
Animated Movie
Season 3 (Transformers 2010)
Season 4 (Rebirth Mini Movie)
The Headmasters (Japanese Season 4)
Super God Masterforce (Japanese Season 5)
Victory (Japanese Season 6 - The final G1 animated season)

Cartoon-wise, this is how the G1 continuities are officially laid out:

U.S. G1 cartoon continuity
Season 1
Season 2
TF The Movie
Season 3
Season 4
Season 5 (Optimus and Tommy scenes only)

Japanese G1 cartoon continuity
FSRLTF
Scramble City: Hatsudō Hen
TF The Movie (Japanese dub)
2010
The Headmasters
Chōjin Masterforce
Victory
Zone

And that's only counting cartoons and movies. When you add in the supplementary material like manga and such, you get a ginormous amount of stuff in these timelines. But, after Zone came the non-cartoon franchises of:

Return of Convoy
Operation Combination
G-2

Baneblade wrote:The japanese phased out the fourth season because they had their own headmasters - and a better line to it too because it makes better sense for there to be mini robots with big bodies. I certainly had a bit of a time of it - especially that I'm older (and because it wasn't explained how the head-forming worked, until Masterforce made it more plausible with the Masterforce Bands) - trying to figure it out.

The phased out The Rebirth because they heard it was only going to be three episodes long, and they wanted to keep going. So, they created their own series instead.

They still dubbed The Rebirth into Japanese for the home video releases, but they didn't air it on TV.

Baneblade wrote:In terms of continuity, the japanese tailored their episodes to be more cohesive in terms of story arc, so in the long-run, if someone was killed off in the series, or written off in the movie, the Japanese made sure that it carried on with the future episodes of the series.

Some characters who died in the G1 movie (like Ironhide and Prowl), show up alive in certain episodes of The Headmasters. The Japanese didn't get the G1 movie until 1989. The only deaths they were aware of in that film were Optimus, Megatron (reformatted as Galvatron), and Starscream. While the Japanese dub of "Dark Awakening" (Kage no Convoy, "Convoy's Shadow") did list off the same deceased Autobots as those mentioned yb Daniel in the English version, apparently someone goofed and forgot that, despite not getting the movie in 1986, Ironhide, Prowl, etc. had been mentioned as being dead. Whoops.

Baneblade wrote:That being said however, they didn't end G1 by not producing any more animated episodes, but they had a wealth of information in the literature (during and following the series that they had), and especially after the final episode for Victory where they went on to bring back Prime/Convoy as Star Convoy - Battlestars I beleive its called - with Rodimus Prime becoming his micro-master companion (The appearance of the first Minicon Companion perhaps?), and they went from there with another manga only series - i think it was Zone with the introduction of Dai Atlas, and then finally we had Gen2.

After Victory came Zone, then Return of Convoy (A.K.A. The Battlestars), then Operation Combination, and then G-2 (as opposed to the American "G2").

Baneblade wrote:Is it me or do the japanese have a better grasp of story structures for a toy promotional line? Ok lets take Beast Wars, Beast Machines and the recent Transformers Prime out of the equation as they were definately more story/event driven because they took what happened in previous episodes and ran with it to drive the later episodes!

Super Link (Energon) would disagree with you.

Baneblade wrote:However, SabrBlade, do you think the American release of the "Japanese Three" would be superior to the UK/Austrailian releases? Ok I will give you that there is the time to learn from the Mistakes of the previous releases, but what do you think would make it a superior version?

Not looking for a war, just your thoughts on why? Or is there something you know that your not telling us?

The U.s. DVDs? Superior? SLAG, NO!!! The U.S. DVDs are hardly what I'd call "superior" to those released by the UK and Australia! The only thing they got going for them is that the U.S. DVDs seemed to have fixed a few errors made by the subtitles of the UK/AU DVDs. In every other regard, however, the UK/AU DVDs beat the snot out of the U.S. DVDs! I despise the subtitles of the U.S. DVDs, for their being so ethnocentric, xenophobic, and unjustly bigoted!

crazyray wrote:this is making my brain hurt

you don't know the half of it.

Sabrblade wrote:I despise the subtitles of the U.S. DVDs, for their being so ethnocentric, xenophobic, and unjustly bigoted!

Examples, please?

I am contemplating buying the US-release of the 3 series, though I have a 6-disc set I got from Malaysia. I'm assuming it's the Jap version. It plays well and I haven't noticed any subtitle mistakes, and the packaging is pretty good. I don't want to buy an inferior set.

Sabrblade wrote:

Baneblade wrote:as far as it goes and this is what i can interpret how the continuity goes:

Season 1/Fight Super Robot Life
Season 2/ " "*
Scramble City (really a filler for the Japanese episodes, but does partially explain the introduction of Magnus & the rest of the Movie/Season 3 cast. Although it would be wise to note, especially to the more enigmatic of the forum, that Galvatron - Cast as a reformatted Megatron in the Movie - shows up as a regual rank and file trooper/New Lieutennant to Megatron in the First part of the short feature. AND, in other news, the second part of Scramble City was really a stop motion toy featurette that was pretty much a marketing slogan - or just a 15/20 minute stop motion advert)
Animated Movie
Season 3 (Transformers 2010)
Season 4 (Rebirth Mini Movie)
The Headmasters (Japanese Season 4)
Super God Masterforce (Japanese Season 5)
Victory (Japanese Season 6 - The final G1 animated season)

Cartoon-wise, this is how the G1 continuities are officially laid out:

U.S. G1 cartoon continuity
Season 1
Season 2
TF The Movie
Season 3
Season 4
Season 5 (Optimus and Tommy scenes only)

Japanese G1 cartoon continuity
FSRLTF
Scramble City: Hatsudō Hen
TF The Movie (Japanese dub)
2010
The Headmasters
Chōjin Masterforce
Victory
Zone

And that's only counting cartoons and movies. When you add in the supplementary material like manga and such, you get a ginormous amount of stuff in these timelines. But, after Zone came the non-cartoon franchises of:

Return of Convoy
Operation Combination
G-2

Baneblade wrote:The japanese phased out the fourth season because they had their own headmasters - and a better line to it too because it makes better sense for there to be mini robots with big bodies. I certainly had a bit of a time of it - especially that I'm older (and because it wasn't explained how the head-forming worked, until Masterforce made it more plausible with the Masterforce Bands) - trying to figure it out.

The phased out The Rebirth because they heard it was only going to be three episodes long, and they wanted to keep going. So, they created their own series instead.

They still dubbed The Rebirth into Japanese for the home video releases, but they didn't air it on TV.

Baneblade wrote:In terms of continuity, the japanese tailored their episodes to be more cohesive in terms of story arc, so in the long-run, if someone was killed off in the series, or written off in the movie, the Japanese made sure that it carried on with the future episodes of the series.

Some characters who died in the G1 movie (like Ironhide and Prowl), show up alive in certain episodes of The Headmasters. The Japanese didn't get the G1 movie until 1989. The only deaths they were aware of in that film were Optimus, Megatron (reformatted as Galvatron), and Starscream. While the Japanese dub of "Dark Awakening" (Kage no Convoy, "Convoy's Shadow") did list off the same deceased Autobots as those mentioned yb Daniel in the English version, apparently someone goofed and forgot that, despite not getting the movie in 1986, Ironhide, Prowl, etc. had been mentioned as being dead. Whoops.

Baneblade wrote:That being said however, they didn't end G1 by not producing any more animated episodes, but they had a wealth of information in the literature (during and following the series that they had), and especially after the final episode for Victory where they went on to bring back Prime/Convoy as Star Convoy - Battlestars I beleive its called - with Rodimus Prime becoming his micro-master companion (The appearance of the first Minicon Companion perhaps?), and they went from there with another manga only series - i think it was Zone with the introduction of Dai Atlas, and then finally we had Gen2.

After Victory came Zone, then Return of Convoy (A.K.A. The Battlestars), then Operation Combination, and then G-2 (as opposed to the American "G2").

Baneblade wrote:Is it me or do the japanese have a better grasp of story structures for a toy promotional line? Ok lets take Beast Wars, Beast Machines and the recent Transformers Prime out of the equation as they were definately more story/event driven because they took what happened in previous episodes and ran with it to drive the later episodes!

Super Link (Energon) would disagree with you.

Baneblade wrote:However, SabrBlade, do you think the American release of the "Japanese Three" would be superior to the UK/Austrailian releases? Ok I will give you that there is the time to learn from the Mistakes of the previous releases, but what do you think would make it a superior version?

Not looking for a war, just your thoughts on why? Or is there something you know that your not telling us?

The U.s. DVDs? Superior? SLAG, NO!!! The U.S. DVDs are hardly what I'd call "superior" to those released by the UK and Australia! The only thing they got going for them is that the U.S. DVDs seemed to have fixed a few errors made by the subtitles of the UK/AU DVDs. In every other regard, however, the UK/AU DVDs beat the snot out of the U.S. DVDs! I despise the subtitles of the U.S. DVDs, for their being so ethnocentric, xenophobic, and unjustly bigoted!

crazyray wrote:this is making my brain hurt

you don't know the half of it.

heh brain hurting is really when you look aat every single bit of the transformers continuity including the us and uk comics, then you are in for a head hurting.

I should have pointed out that, when i listed the seasons in breakdown, i was including both the japanese and western transformers series in the listings - i should make myself a lot more clearer next time.

But what i was trying to say, was that the Japanese story arcs were more cohesive and less "episode by episode", but i forgot about that when you mentioned the fact that they didnt get the movie until the late 80's i remembered the fact that Ironhide and prowl do show up in Headmasters, and also wheeljack is very much alive and present in victory when they reformat God Ginrai into Victory Leo - yet the movie shows him dead and busted in the missile launcher bay as Arcee deposits a very dead windcharger as they get ready to counter attack devastator - who, incedentally, is the only combiner that actually shows up in the movie, no stunticons, no airial bots, no combaticons...kind of odd that...

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:I despise the subtitles of the U.S. DVDs, for their being so ethnocentric, xenophobic, and unjustly bigoted!

Examples, please?

This entire thread - http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=79234

Rodimus Prime wrote:I am contemplating buying the US-release of the 3 series, though I have a 6-disc set I got from Malaysia. I'm assuming it's the Jap version. It plays well and I haven't noticed any subtitle mistakes, and the packaging is pretty good. I don't want to buy an inferior set.

You got a bootleg set (probably ripped from the UK or AU DVDs or TV-Nihon fansubs). Japanese DVDs don't have English subtitles.

Baneblade wrote:heh brain hurting is really when you look aat every single bit of the transformers continuity including the us and uk comics, then you are in for a head hurting.

Very true.

Baneblade wrote:I should have pointed out that, when i listed the seasons in breakdown, i was including both the japanese and western transformers series in the listings - i should make myself a lot more clearer next time.

I got that. I was just separating the two since they're different continuties. Like, G1 season 3 isn't the same continuity as 2010.

Baneblade wrote:But what i was trying to say, was that the Japanese story arcs were more cohesive and less "episode by episode",

The first arc of The Headmasters, the first half of Victory, the first arc of Car Robots, the first half of Micron Densetsu, and some early episodes of Galaxy Force were all standalone, filler episodes that started the plot at each episode's beginning and finished it by each episode's end (can't say for certain about Beast Wars II or Neo, as I haven't seen them all yet). Though, when I mentioned Super Link before, it's not that that series all had filer episodes, but that it simply didn't have any real cohesion to it's story, period. It had an overarching plot, just one that incomprehensible.

the thing that always bugged me the most about the movie was not seeing them take down devestator during the autobot city fight. we wont talk about me crying for most of the movie.......I was 6 the first time.......or me crying now.....shut up my wife still loves me ?

Sabrblade wrote:The first arc of The Headmasters, the first half of Victory, the first arc of Car Robots, the first half of Micron Densetsu, and some early episodes of Galaxy Force were all standalone, filler episodes that started the plot at each episode's beginning and finished it by each episode's end (can't say for certain about Beast Wars II or Neo, as I haven't seen them all yet). Though, when I mentioned Super Link before, it's not that that series all had filer episodes, but that it simply didn't have any real cohesion to it's story, period. It had an overarching plot, just one that incomprehensible.

what you mean the one that started in Super Densetsu Micron Legend Transformers and ended in Super Link, and spilled over into Galaxy Force - i.e. the whole unicron trajectory that simply spilled into one long winded mess that was Super Link, which culminated with the creation of a black hole that threatened the entire galaxy, and the only thing that could stop it was the reactivating of cybertron into Primus?

or (yes wait for the collossal gasp)

the fact that we got the Unicron Trilogy - which had more plot holes in there than a block of swiss?

I suppose - in the grand scheme of things - nothing is plot hole/continuity error free...

DAMMIT!!!

Baneblade wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The first arc of The Headmasters, the first half of Victory, the first arc of Car Robots, the first half of Micron Densetsu, and some early episodes of Galaxy Force were all standalone, filler episodes that started the plot at each episode's beginning and finished it by each episode's end (can't say for certain about Beast Wars II or Neo, as I haven't seen them all yet). Though, when I mentioned Super Link before, it's not that that series all had filer episodes, but that it simply didn't have any real cohesion to it's story, period. It had an overarching plot, just one that incomprehensible.

what you mean the one that started in Super Densetsu Micron Legend Transformers and ended in Super Link, and spilled over into Galaxy Force - i.e. the whole unicron trajectory that simply spilled into one long winded mess that was Super Link, which culminated with the creation of a black hole that threatened the entire galaxy, and the only thing that could stop it was the reactivating of cybertron into Primus?

or (yes wait for the collossal gasp)

the fact that we got the Unicron Trilogy - which had more plot holes in there than a block of swiss?

I suppose - in the grand scheme of things - nothing is plot hole/continuity error free...

DAMMIT!!!

.......

.......

Say what?

All I was saying is that Those series each had filler episodes without any real plot until the plot got going afterward.

And with Super Link/Energon, while it did have an overarching plot, it was one that was so poorly put together that it just wasn't understandable. I got that it was "Decpeticons wanna revive Unicron, and the Autobots wanna prevent that," but that's a very broad way of putting it as the specifics of it all were so overtly complicated that just didn't resemble a coherent story. And when the whole deal with Unicron was over, the story kept going and ultimately amounted to nothing really noteworthy happening at all.

Sabrblade wrote:.......

.......

Say what?

I think I just gave Sabrblade an anurisim!

crazyray wrote:this is making my brain hurt

Let's put this simply. Hasbro and Takara. As far as Hasbro and Sunbow was concerned, nearly everyone from seasons one and two were dead by the time season three ended. Those who were seen alive, but didn't speak, were animation errors caused by Akom and Studio Ox. This includes the Insecticons, Skyfire, Brawn and Gears. Errors in the movie were the result of not having a master list and story changes made midway through the production. As far as Takara and Toei was concerned, they just put in whoever they knew for certain and those they didn't, they just winged it. Hence we see Prowl, Wheeljack, Skyfire, Sideswipe, Tracks and Sunstreaker. Interesting though, Wheeljack and Perceptor weren't named in the scripts and episodes featuring them, as I understand it.

After watching the movie lastweek on the Hub can anybody explain why all the Dinobots appeared in the movie except for Snarl yet he's seen in a few episodes during season 3?

dinobot-fan-88 wrote:After watching the movie lastweek on the Hub can anybody explain why all the Dinobots appeared in the movie except for Snarl yet he's seen in a few episodes during season 3?

He was, for some unknown reason, left out of the movie's script.

Though, he isn't completely absent from the film, appearing in three shots ( the first two of which are in the same scene):

dinobot-fan-88 wrote:After watching the movie lastweek on the Hub can anybody explain why all the Dinobots appeared in the movie except for Snarl yet he's seen in a few episodes during season 3?

he was in the film, watch more closely.
EDIT Sabe beat me to it

crazyray wrote:Is it commonly accepted that Skyfire was blowed up real good in Dark Awakening? I'm am working on a story to bridge the gap between the last episode of Season 2 and the Animated Movie and I need to know if he should get a death scene or not.

And while we're at it...can we name charecters that were not seen in the movie AT ALL and generally accepted they died? Such as...

Trailbreaker
Sideswipe
Gears
Inferno
Red Alert
Blue Streak
Hoist
Grapple

Who else am i forgetting? I have notes elsewhere on another computer, but would like to get a concensus...

I myself can think of a few Autobots and Decepticons that weren't seen in the movie.

Autobots
Powerglide
Seaspray
Omega Supreme
Cosmos

Decepticons
All of the Stunticons

That's all I can think of for now but I'm sure that I'm still missing some.

Sabrblade wrote:

dinobot-fan-88 wrote:After watching the movie lastweek on the Hub can anybody explain why all the Dinobots appeared in the movie except for Snarl yet he's seen in a few episodes during season 3?

He was, for some unknown reason, left out of the movie's script.

Though, he isn't completely absent from the film, appearing in three shots ( the first two of which are in the same scene):

Thanks for filling me in on that...Not sure how I missed him?