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New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby o.supreme » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:17 pm

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Randomhero wrote:Except this is the original cartoon where Sparks were not created for cannon yet.


OK Laser Core, or whatever you want to call it. The point is, whatever the source of a Transformers life in OTF Animated Canon, Megatron's would be brought to an end by Optimus. I *would* think a chest shot that pierced him all the way through (Ratchet, Prowl etc...)would be as fatal as blowing his head clean off (Ironhide). After all these aren't Zombies were dealing with... :-?
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby ZeroWolf » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:29 pm

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Let's now ponder where the rest of this will end up, there is several different scenarios that it could become.

That being said there is two things that will still happen.

-starscreams coronation. This is a setpoint in time apparently unless there a movie universe where megs had the sense to kill starscream before now.

-threat of the matrix. Unicron still wants that matrix gone, so he needs to get rid of prime this time, instead if just sending galvatron after ultra magnus
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby dragons » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:36 pm

I pay good money to this made into animated movie
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby o.supreme » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:41 pm

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
We will find out for sure next week. But there are many ways this could go:

1. Unicron could create his own new heralds in an attempt to destroy Optimus Prime and the Matrix.

2. Unicron "summons" Starscream in an attempt to do his bidding

-The point is, we are almost assured a *bad* ending. Optimus is injured and may not have the strength to use the Matrix against Unicron. A happy ending is ideal, but any time you disrupt the main time stream, for better or worse, its never a happy ending.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:06 pm

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Randomhero wrote:For people complaining about Megatron missing, he's beaten to a pulp in that fight with Optimus, both are really.
True, but, as mentioned earlier, the injured Megatron is given the same chance to shoot Prime from the same close distance in the Marvel version and successfully makes his shot count.

This is what happens in that version immediately after Prime's line about "sterner stuff":

Image

Megatron is down on one knee and is still able to hit Prime square in the chest.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby kurthy » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:17 pm

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Maybe we should change the name of this to 'What if Seibertron never died?'

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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby RodimusRex » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:35 am

ZeroWolf wrote:Let's now ponder where the rest of this will end up, there is several different scenarios that it could become.

That being said there is two things that will still happen.

-starscreams coronation. This is a setpoint in time apparently unless there a movie universe where megs had the sense to kill starscream before now.

-threat of the matrix. Unicron still wants that matrix gone, so he needs to get rid of prime this time, instead if just sending galvatron after ultra magnus


I've often wanted to see what a Unicron upgraded/reformatted Starscream would look like.

I can see a strong case to be made that Unicron would go to devour Cybertron in his quest for the Matrix, Starscream would beg for his life, and we'd get a Starscream herald of Unicron leading an army of sweeps in pursuit of the Autobots on Earth.

The temptation there would be to continue to play with Rodimus as the eventual chosen one after Optimus eventually falls... Or to kill off Rodimus completely. I think there's also bound to be a temptation to use the Quintessons and Junions in new ways.

I think my instinct would be to have "Galvascream" (Darkscream?) on one side (and, man, that seems like something we'd all want a toy of) and eventually have the Matrix get passed on, with or without Optimus eventually dying. I think I'd like to see Arcee, Kup, Grimlock, or Magnus get the Prime upgrade.

Arcee or Kup are the ones I'd find interesting because we don't expect it as much. But I really like the idea of a T-Rex with a trailer fused to its rear torso; that seems like a Transformers vs. G.I.Joe kind of concept and I think you have to maintain Grimlock as kind of dumb if you want to evoke the cartoon. Magnus Prime would be interesting to see mainly because it would be doubling down so heavily on the concept. Or, heck, go completely bonkers and have Wreck Gar become a Prime. There's a Fisher King vibe to be had there.

I think the really exciting potential of the toon universe and a what if of the movie (which you don't get as much from the IDW-verse) is the idea that characters go through certain TYPES or CATEGORIES of upgrade and in a "What If...?" story, you can have different characters get Unicron reformattings and a different character become a Matrix-boosted Prime.

Outside of the animated G1 continuity, you don't have nearly as much of that idea of "Unicron reformatting" or "Prime Upgrade" being a standard "magic transformation" that could be applied to different characters. That's the red meat in an alternate universe story like this.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby Ballistic90 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:41 am

For those that find Optimus killing Megatron to be out of character, remember that Megatron had directly (or indirectly) killed Prowl, Brawn, Ironhide, Ratchet, Windcharger and Wheeljack hours prior to Optimus arriving. I mean, he even says "One shall stand, one shall fall." He intended to kill Megatron as soon as the fight began.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby Sabrblade » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:42 am

Motto: "Can't do a job halfway. What's worth doing is worth doing well, I say."
Weapon: Saber Blade
"Dinobots, destroy Devastator!"

"Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost."

"One shall stand, one shall fall."

Prime seemed pretty intent on having some Decepticon casualties made that day, even if he himself failed to kill any of the Decepticons he mowed down and shot en route to his confrontation with Megatron.

At least here he expresses remorse for having to do what he must to stop Megatron in this comic ("Forgive me."). Movie Optimus as-seen-in-the-movies-themselves wouldn't have any such regrets.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby bluecatcinema » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:06 pm

Sabrblade wrote:This is what happens in that version immediately after Prime's line about "sterner stuff":

Image

Megatron is down on one knee and is still able to hit Prime square in the chest.


That actually seems pretty cheap, like all Megatron needed to do to beat Optimus was pull off something sneaky like that.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby Ultra Markus » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Motto: "“You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.” - Harvey Dent in The Dark Knight"
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wasn't the original plan to have optimus prime as powered convoy or similar to that but look more like optimus like instead of ultra magnus
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby ScottyP » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:04 pm

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Ultra Markus wrote:wasn't the original plan to have optimus prime as powered convoy or similar to that but look more like optimus like instead of ultra magnus
No, not at all. The first colors of Ultra Magnus seen in preview materials and animations were closer to the Diaclone scheme, but it was not meant to be Optimus. Speculation since I couldn't source this as a "fact": color scheme was changed to make him more distinct from Optimus.

Dr. Va'al is handling the site's review for this book, but I'm working on a lengthy post where I outline the immense disappointment I have in this book. It's just so, so bad.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:07 pm

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ScottyP wrote:
Ultra Markus wrote:wasn't the original plan to have optimus prime as powered convoy or similar to that but look more like optimus like instead of ultra magnus
No, not at all. The first colors of Ultra Magnus seen in preview materials and animations were closer to the Diaclone scheme, but it was not meant to be Optimus. Speculation since I couldn't source this as a "fact": color scheme was changed to make him more distinct from Optimus.

Dr. Va'al is handling the site's review for this book, but I'm working on a lengthy post where I outline the immense disappointment I have in this book. It's just so, so bad.

I will admit, it was nothing like I thought it was going to be :MAXIMAL:
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby Seibertron » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:22 pm

Motto: "'Til All Are One!"
Weapon: Twin Shock-Concussion Missiles
I was really looking forward to this book and even made a special trip today to the comic store to pick it up. Unfortunately, I was bummed after reading it.

The biggest things that irked me was how certain characters acted out of character ... particularly Ultra Magnus and Hot Rod. They weren't written as they had been characterized, and I didn't care for Springer saying "shut up" to Perceptor. While I liked Starscream getting an upgrade from Unicron, I thought it was silly that his name changed to Megascream. Overall, it seemed like someone's fan fiction somehow made it to printed form.

The artwork was pretty decent. It was better than I was expecting but there were some points where it seemed off.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:20 pm

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I was reading the wiki and the way Magnus and some of the others were portrayed were along the lines of the original movie script IE Magnus and Hot Rod not getting along. Although the characterizations was weird at points :MAXIMAL:
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Transformers: Deviations' Subtle Indictment

Postby ScottyP » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:32 pm

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Transformers: Deviations' Subtle Indictment
(Or: I Swear This Isn't a Site Article)
(Unless Va'al swoops in on Alpha Bravo and makes it so...)
(Which just happened.)


Note: This article is an editorial, and as such, it reflects the views of the authors and the author alone. Much like our reviews, top lists and other articles, it is not indicative of Seibertron.com, the site owner, or the staff.

The Transformers: Deviations one-shot came out this week and I was extremely excited about this book. I love the 1986 The Transformers: The Movie with a passion, and any addition to its lore, imagery, and self-contained universe is something I jump at with fervor.

There's a reason this movie has withstood the test of time. It's likely most accurate to say that there are a multitude of extremely good reasons this has happened and not just one on its own. From the iconic music (whether or not you enjoy it ironically being outside the scope of things here) to the sublime voice cast to animation that put the weekly TV series to shame, this movie's lasting appeal is one of a hundred factors responsible for the brand's sustained success. Success which, it should be noted, has far surpassed a majority (though not all) of the 80s and 90s nostalgia act properties that have gone away for a time then re-emerged into current pop-culture awareness. TF:TM as I'll call it a lot from here on out was the first time the brand evolved, and it did so in the most amazing way for me.

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I should really elaborate on some of those points in regards to TF:TM a bit more. First, to get it out of the way since I've already brought it up perhaps somewhat pointlessly, the music in TF:TM is a time capsule of everything 80s movie soundtracks did, for better or worse. This helps give the movie some lasting appeal. Since the ultimate point of this article is about a comic book which inherently doesn't get a musical element, that's all that will be said about that.

The voice cast for the original movie was comprised of a great mix of the talents from the Sunbow cartoon, interspersed with Hollywood stars such as Judd Nelson, Leonard Nimoy, Eric Idle, Orson Welles, and even the pop-culture star John Moschitta - the "Micro Machines Guy". Some could say it's odd to bring this up when setting the frame for why a comic disappointed me, and there's some merit to that. This said, the "voice" of a comic is found through elements such as the art, coloring, scripting, and even the letters. More on this later.

Same goes for the animation of TF:TM and the merits of bringing that up as a comparison element in this writing. While a comic is by the very nature of its own medium a static entity in visual presentation, recent works have set the bar extremely high for pencil, ink, flat, and coloring work, with outliers in quality usually relating more to stylistic choice rather than, well, any perceived quality.

Hopefully this has so far established the level on which I revere 1986's Transformers movie. If it didn't, hopefully that "revere" word tells you what the last few paragraphs may not have. I really, truly consider TF:TM to be that era's magnum opus for Transformers material, as it hits almost every beat in perfect harmony with what you'd expect out of Transformers while being simultaneously fun, scary, tragic, celebratory, uplifting, depressing, piquing, and imaginative.

Given this, works that have come out over the years which have expanded on or had fun with TF:TM have been both welcome and fantastic. We've had DVD commentaries expand greatly on the production and decisions made through out it. We've had the amazing material unearthed and preserved by Paul Hitchens, whose YouTube channel is the gift that keeps on giving. Then there was the 20th Anniversary's retelling of the movie from IDW Publishing. While more or less faithful to the original work, this gave us something extremely cool: a two-page spread showing Omega Supreme, Superion, and Defensor defending The Ark from a Decepticon attack staged by Menasor and Bruticus. Retcons can be dubious, but this one was quick, effective, and satisfying.

It hasn't all been perfect either. Let's not forget the "Battle in Space" toy pack-in comic from 6 years ago, which had additional canonical material involving Tracks, Grapple, and Warpath, and while that wasn't the best in production either it's also not something anyone wanted me to spend extra money on. The set cost the same as two deluxe toys did at the time anyway, and now I can imagine that those guys had something going on during all that. Autocracy also did some fun stuff with the iconic Optimus v. Megatron battle, though that was more homage (in fact) and Flint Dille apologizing (in tone) than anything else. Even then, that was also only dedicated to a few pages of a work that was setting out to accomplish something completely different.

I could keep listing examples of works inspired in ways good and bad by TF:TM for eons, but that's not what this is for. Suffice it to say that if you need any objective measure of its impact, look no further than the amount of times Transformers fiction will trot out lines such as "One Shall Stand, One Shall Fall."

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This all leads us to the announcement of Transformers: Deviations. Part of a series of one-shot comics for various properties for which IDW has licensing rights, the Transformers iteration of this little side non-canon "What If?" series was going to deal with The Transformers: The Movie and the pivotal battle between eternal rivals Optimus Prime and Megatron. As anyone reading this site is surely aware, Megatron not only defeats Optimus Prime, but kills him, albeit not right there on the spot. Optimus survives on an operating table long enough to pass the Autobot Matrix of Leadership on to Ultra Magnus. All the while, Hot Rod, the Autobot that many Transformers fans "blame" for Optimus' death just because he failed at run-in interference during that fateful battle, stands by observing.

The rest, is silence. Er, the rest is history. Sorry, Beast Wars Anniversary and all that on the brain.

Deviations' premise is set to have fun with history and imagine what would have happened had Optimus Prime lived through this encounter. This is immediately where disappointment started to creep in upon publication of the book's standard preview pages released online in advance of its print publication today. The most predictable thing to do is to say "well, guess Optimus would have killed Megatron if he hadn't died himself, right?" That's ok though, predictable stories can still be entertaining and there's still a whole world of interesting paths to take beyond that with the rest of the movie's material. Still, from the outset the book pigeonholes itself into path B leading to path C, when instead path B could have lead to paths D, E, F, G, 42, Z, Primax 1023.1 Alpha - really anything at all.

If you can't tell, my biggest gripe with this book is the story. I'll come back to it to wrap things up, but let's get the production elements out of the way.

The colors, letters, and in fact most all of the art is fantastically done and lives up to the legacy of TFTM to which it will be compared. These parts of the book's "voice" are, generally, very good. The disappointment sets in with a handful of pages/panels where the pencils and inks are just not the quality one would expect from a real talent like Tramontano. The inconsistency is even more glaring when I think about how really, truly beautifully done some other parts of this comic are. If this is due to deadlines happening then I can forgive.

Let's pause to consider some of the worst offenders in inconsistent style such as:
  1. Leaving off Astrotrain's wing upon takeoff on Page 6
  2. Ultra Magnus' downright weird looking glare on Page 7
  3. The entirety of pages 20 and 21
  4. The downright goofy looking Rodimus Prime in the last two panels of the book
If these were stylistic choices, then in my opinion they were poor ones. I could find more, but again, the production of the book outside of plot/story and dialogue really aren't the big issues that led to my disappointment.

It's the story. It's the characterization. Deviations stopped being a fun "what if" and turned into the worst kind of parody, and it did so in one glaring moment: the first time Ultra Magnus speaks. This is where the voice of the comic got overridden despite many of its other elements being sound. The message behind the voice wasn't of reverence, it wasn't of disregard for one factor (big as it may be) of the original story, it was one of bitter disregard for what had otherwise followed Optimus' death in TF:TM.

Image


If you're going to change an existing story based on one element, in this case Optimus Prime and Megatron's fates being swapped, and then choose to start things out en medias res then you better approach the setting of the rest ceteris paribus. Or at the very least, honor the little bit that came before that was not re-written. Magnus' first words to Hot Rod felt wrong. Off. They just weren't a thing this Ultra Magnus would say. Would Kup? Yes, so why didn't he?

Changing gears to paint my disappointment another way, I'll admit, I really did enjoy Megascream. I really wanted to like this book and I really tried to have fun with it. I kept trying to have fun with it when the Dinobots pre-emptively attacked the Sharkticons, or when the Decepticons combined just like Trailcutter told us they would for no reason, or when Unicron just sort of snacked on dead Decepticons such as Thundercracker and Skywarp instead of reformatting them.

Yet this is where the disappointment mounted and the book started to spiral into a bad place for me. For every Megascream there was cringeworthy dialogue meant to evoke TF:TM that instead bastardized the original intent of the words. For every Dinobot attack there was the underlying pointlessness of their presence on Quintessa and a potentially super fascinating storyline with Kranix of Lithone (which couldn't even get spelled correctly - and it was done twice so tell the wiki folks to put that one under "errors") that was dropped like a hot potato. For every Decepticon combiner there was confusing scene building accompanied with overly busy layouts. What Moon Base got eaten? One? I think? For every Unicron snack, there was the realization that this "What if" was not a well-informed, "pick up the ball and run with it" dream engagement for the author, it was an indictment on the movie I love so dearly.

"Indictment" is a rather strong word, and maybe it isn't the right one since I don't think there was any ill intent, but that's really how it came across to me emotionally. Clever dialogue turned shallow. Alien worlds humming with the otherworldly imaginings of Floro Dery instead used as mere set pieces for your Action To Come After These Messages. Fascinating, fun new characters like Springer and Arcee thrown into the Planet Junkion in a flaming, doomed Autobot shuttle, barely to be mourned. At least they got to show up at all, and at least then without having their characters assassinated.

That's the other part where I felt like this book was an indictment of its forebear: the complete and gratuitous character assassination of Hot Rod.

Image


If you didn't like Hot Rod as a kid, I understand. If you don't like him now, I understand. Hell, my wife doesn't like Hot Rod. "Hot Rod's a punk bitch" is probably what she'd tell you, or something to that effect. All the same, the best versions of Hot Rod through the years all make you "love him or hate him" but they keep one factor pretty consistent: he's competent and brave. While Deviations hits the brave factor, it does so while putting Hot Rod into the part of The Fool. The Hot Rod one should expect here is the one that yes, indeed, shot at the attacked shuttle carrying the Decepticons into Autobot City, but that Hot Rod knew what he was shooting at. That Hot Rod had a plan when trying to help Optimus while he fought Megatron, even if it backfired. That Hot Rod had a semblance of leadership skills, and could bank a shuttle into a safe crash onto Quintessa then regroup and find his friends, "And then save Cybertron!"

This Hot Rod insults fallen comrades, makes shuttle damage worse to the point where the thing explodes, has to be told to get Daniel to safety, then runs in and saves the day at the last minute by a stroke of luck and not of guts and will like the Hot Rod that defeats Galvatron within Unicron's innards. Then he dies so he can personally redeem his earlier failure, because he's so incompetent this time that he can't escape? What even happened there?

At the end of my reading of the book, I felt the tinge that every geek like me into any Sci-Fi property does from time to time of what's colloquially known as "nerd rage". I had to take a few hours to calm down from this to collect my thoughts on what exactly I didn't like, because I could certainly "nerd rage" for hours and not do anyone any good in the process.

But after some days of processing it and then re-reading my paper copy today, I was able to distill my disappointment and find its source. The author of this book was well intended, and was clearly just trying to have fun, but ultimately penned an indictment on one of the Transformers franchise's most important works. If you're going to just have fun, go hire Tom Scioli to do the art and go absolutely crazy, then I can follow the intention. The accompanying poor dialogue choices, inconsistent art, and sometimes positively confusing scene building makes this a book I won't look back fondly on, rebuy three times, and pine for years for more like Last Stand of the Wreckers, it makes it something I'll file away and never read again like Continuum.

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There's a certain subset of Transformers fans that will love this book. Some of them are on this site, hell even in this very thread. Enjoy it. This is your G1, the version that basically doesn't exist after early 1986. This book is for you and this post is my last word on it, because no one likes a hater.

But for me? I enjoy the rich history of all soon-to-be 32 years of The Transformers. Ups and downs alike, I can find something to enjoy. I found some things to enjoy in this book that I never want to read again! While I can appreciate the idea of Deviations, the execution of the book left me so bitterly disappointed that it led to a realization. That is this: the creative team behind The Transformers: The Movie all those years ago realized that the brand had to evolve or die. Optimus dying wasn't a choice, it was a necessity. Since it's NCAA Tournament season, we'll say the franchise had to "Survive and Advance". IDW has helped some of our favorite Generation One characters survive, by advancing and evolving the narrative scope and quality of their ongoing books. Deviations is an indictment on this progress as well, and looking on social media, the loud corner that wants "G1 back", despite it being here all along, often twice a month for the past decade, wants you to go buy this book in triplicate so you can vote with your dollars.

Do that if you want, but also realize the subtle indictment it implies.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby Seibertron » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:50 pm

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That was an awesome read and made me feel much better about my disappointments after reading the book. Great idea for a "what if" but ultimately it turned out to be a very poorly executed concept as a final product. Bummer ... here's hoping that they can learn from this!

Great article, Scott. ;)^ :KREMZEEK:
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby ScottyP » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:02 pm

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Seibertron wrote:That was an awesome read and made me feel much better about my disappointments after reading the book. Great idea for a "what if" but ultimately it turned out to be a very poorly executed concept as a final product. Bummer ... here's hoping that they can learn from this!

Great article, Scott. ;)^ :KREMZEEK:
Thanks! I was worried I got carried away and no one would read all of it.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:50 pm

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Interesting perspective, and well written too. I appreciate the read Scotty! :MAXIMAL:
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:56 pm

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I still kinda feel like I would like to see a version of the movie's story with Optimus not dying done in a way akin to what I wrote on Page 2 of this thread:

Sabrblade wrote:instead of Hot Rod jumping in to tackle Megatron before Megs could fire his gun at Prime, Hot Rod would jump in a second later than he did originally, allowing Megatron to shoot at Optimus, but with Hot Rod instead jumping into the line of fire and taking the shot meant for Prime.

Upon seeing Hot Rod take the shot and fall to the ground gravely injured, Prime would become enraged by Megatron and promptly beat him to a pulp, just as he did in the movie, leaving Megatron beaten and barely alive with Starscream ordering the Decepticons' retreat and Soundwave carrying away the fallen Megatron (who'd become Galvatron later).

Optimus would examine Hot Rod's unconscious body and swear to get him repaired, having been touched by Hot Rod's seemingly selfless act, never knowing the truth that Hot Rod wasn't really trying to take the shot meant for Prime, and instead had fumbled his attempt to tackle Megatron and be a hero, accidentally landing himself in the line of fire and thus feeling utter humiliation before blacking out.

The rest of the movie would play out with Optimus thinking highly of Hot Rod (after his being repaired), wanting to form a bond with the kid during the film's events (he'd go in the same shuttle as Hot Rod while Magnus would captain the other one), while Hot Rod would instead think of himself as having messed up his big hero moment like a fool, mistaking Optimus's being so nice to him as a way of teasing him for his fumble, and wanting nothing to do with Prime. The two would form a father-son type of bond that would eventually culminate in the two coming to terms with each other and Optimus personally passing the Matrix onto Hot Rod either during or following the film's climactic defeat of Unicron.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby RodimusRex » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:16 pm

I think this comic had its work cut out for it trying to adapt AND rewrite TF:TM in 35 pages. It was light fun; I'm not sure it was worth $5, especially as it felt more like an ad for the monthly than its own thing.

That, to me, is the difference between something like this and Transformers vs. G.I.Joe. TFvJoe was given a ton of room to take weird detours. This is basically limited to the confines of the movie and feels like a try-out project.

Full confession: I tried to pitch IDW on something similar to this when they took a packet from me. I had an elaborate idea for a twist involving TF:TM that was, ironically, halfway between this and the Shattered Glass "Another Light" club comic take on the movie. I can't remember if this was in the packet I actually sent in or not. The reality is, folks have similar ideas.

But my take was one where:

Optimus makes the more ruthless decision. He apologizes to Hot Rod (who's a hostage) and fires, killing Megatron and Hot Rod. The real divergence point we'd have here is not so much a specific moment so much as Optimus having a more ruthless character. If we had the space, I'd establish that this had to do with a very different encounter between Optimus, Dion, and Elita One with Megatron. But the divergence point would be that Optimus is not a very nice guy but more of a ruthless soldier, which I think is what some fans would like. And so he treats Hot Rod as a regrettable casualty but worth killing to take out Megatron.


With Megatron and Hot Rod dead, Starscream takes a dying Optimus. Starscream snags the Matrix and jettisons Optimus into space where Unicron reformats Optimus, Iron Hide, Wheeljack, and a few others into agents of evil, which works in part because this Optimus has a darker nature.

From there, the changes would get more chaotic since you have no obvious successor, Starscream with the Matrix, and Optimus killing his friends with gleeful Unicron-caused insanity, while a small voice in his head resists.

On the whole, I'd be looking at, ideally, a 3 to 4 part miniseries.

This comic was a solid effort for a one shot. I wasn't even bothered by Ultra Magnus or Hot Rod because I felt like a deliberate part of it was actively avoiding who they became later and amplifying the quirkiness of their first appearances.

But I'd have liked this better as a universe with its own chain of chaotic developments than a one shot, which felt to me like it was still chained at the hip to the movie. As a miniseries, maybe we could have had, say, Old Snake try to convert Megascream into a human or Devcon as a reluctant hero with a romance with Arcee. We might have had Nebulons resisting Unicron by fusing to Transformers in new ways.

As it stands, it felt like it was trying to hew awfully close to the movie, didn't have page space to deviate a whole lot, and felt like a lure to attract cartoon fans who don't read the monthly IDW stuff into reading it.

Also, the first few pages play this up as a tragedy but the body count isn't really any bigger than TFTM and the outcome is arguably better. I felt like the premise had an opportunity for chaotic twists that, outside of Megascream, the book didn't fully deliver on despite being well written and drawn. I would like this team to get a chance to do an alternate TF Universe where they have more space to flesh out ideas and a push to do more original concepts.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby Burn » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:22 am

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I agree with pretty much everything Ryan said, but as RodimusRex pointed out, it's biggest problem was trying to re-write the movie (which back in the day took four issues to tell) in 35 pages.

Characters were off. Story was rushed. Highlight was definitely upgraded Starscream (Megascream just doesn't work) and a toy like that would be impressive to have.

Otherwise ... after last weeks X-Files Deviation, this one tried to go too big and never made it.
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby Microraptor » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:32 am

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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby galvatron00 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:53 am

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Scotty P: Excellent write up. All of your points = win.

I read the comic yesterday morning, and I'm reading it again now. When I finished it yesterday I said aloud "that's it?!".

As others have pointed out, all previous renditions of TF:TM in comic form have taken more than one issue to convey the story. I understand they accelerated 20 minutes into the movie and started there, and then left out 10 minutes of reformatting/coronation and "Decepticons: to earth!", and maybe 10 minutes of back and forth between Junkion and Quintessa, but it was just weird to read and then be finished so quickly.

I agree with your statement that this brought G1 pre TF:TM back (even though notable characters still died).

I've also always referred to TF:TM as TF:TM, funny :lol:

I almost feel like I wasted my money. Almost :-D

So yeah, great job Scotty P ;)^
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Re: New IDW Comics Mini-Series 'Deviations' - What if... Optimus Never Died?

Postby o.supreme » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:52 am

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I haven't purchased the book *yet*. Hopefully its waiting in my saver in my local shop. Anyway... I appreciate the well informed commentary, and the professionalism of the opinions. It will be a shame if the ball was dropped as hard as it was. however I would place the blame solely on the creative team, not the original source. Several other comic brands have shown for years that you can do some amazing "what if" stories.

I only take a couple of exceptions....

1. In TF:TM- Megatron did not defeat Optimus Prime, I've never viewed it that way. It was a draw. Optimus died, and Megatron clearly would have if not for Unicron's intervention.


2. I personally do not believe Optimus Prime had to die in order for the TF brand to movie on. I respect the TF:TM writers bold choice, as it is one of the movies greatest strengths, but it wasn't a necessity. I have never been one to promote myself, as I am no great writer. But still, as I have mentioned several times. I had the idea of an entire fan-fiction series of time & universe traveling bots' almost 20 years ago, and one of the main stories was basically about the "rift" caused if Optimus had survived that day. And I can't believe, of all the myriad of fans, I'm the only one who postulated this idea before now.

3. "G1 one has been here all along" well... it has and it hasn't... There have been several "re-releases" of the toys, TRUE reproductions, which are about as authentic as you can get. Then there was TF:Regeneration 1 -Furmans attempt to bring proper closure to the Marvel Comic series. --What IDW has been doing for the past decade or so however, has been inventing a *new* G1. Kind of like JJ Abrams Star Trek. The characters in most cases do *not* match ther personalities they were given in the original comic, or animated series, which brings me to my final point.

4. Of all the media outlets for the original Transformers- The one that strikes the greatest resonance with me is the original animated series. Now this is not a debate on the quality of the series. Sure it is flawed, and yes I put on my very thick nostalgia glasses when I watch it (I watched 3 or 4 episodes just 2 days ago). But there has never been a proper continuation of it. In *my* mind (and I know I am in the minority). I quickly adopted the Japanese G1 series as the continuation I never got back in 1987, and if that's all I ever get, then I'm ok with that. But I've seen so many fan projects, and ideas indicating that there is a sizable amount of the fan community that would love to see some honest to goodness continuation of the original Hasbro/Sunbow animated Original Transformners series. Whether it is the 20 year gap between S2 and TF:TM, or Post Rebirth, I think this subset of fans (myself being one of them) would love to see this. THIS is the thing we are asking for THIS is the thing we have not seen in nearly 30 years. And whether it happens in print, or animated form, we patiently await any prospects in the near future. All the "G1 esque" Comics, or video games (which Devastation has come the closest to), cannot completely fill that void, cannot provide 100% satisfaction. So until then, we will patiently sit back, and wait, and still ask for it to happen.
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