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News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:50 pm

Shadowman wrote:I wasn't asking for ideas, I was asking for facts.

So now you want me to write a full story??

Not ideas for how they could alter him, I'm not looking for concepts.

Concepts and idea are the same thing.

It's a simple question:

Not in the way your wording it.

What puts Scarface/Ventriloquist on par with Batman's other villains?

How does one even begin to answer that question?"?

I'll say this, the Ventriloquist is one of Batmans most physiology complex characters.The split personality could be explored in depth as a contrass to Batman and his dual identity.

A dual personality would work as the main theme as whose in control, whose actually the master the puppet or the ventriloquist, and who is Batmans real face bruce or the mask.

Nolan could take the chance to explore a villain that's more about psychological depravity than physical harm, emphasize the fragile, damaged mind of Wesker in the movie giving it a scary psychological feel.This is a character that Nolan could develop into a deep, complex, full, sympathetic villain.

As for what you think of Batman's other villains: If you think Joker is ridiculous, you haven't read The Killing Joke.

You'd be wrong to make that assumption.

And the concept of a man, wearing make up or being disfigured, then spending the rest of his life playing tricks on socity is ridiculous.

But thats the beauty of comics, they make the ridiculous believable.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:31 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:How does one even begin to answer that question?"?

I'll say this, the Ventriloquist is one of Batmans most physiology complex characters.The split personality could be explored in depth as a contrass to Batman and his dual identity.

A dual personality would work as the main theme as whose in control, whose actually the master the puppet or the ventriloquist, and who is Batmans real face bruce or the mask.

Nolan could take the chance to explore a villain that's more about psychological depravity than physical harm, emphasize the fragile, damaged mind of Wesker in the movie giving it a scary psychological feel.This is a character that Nolan could develop into a deep, complex, full, sympathetic villain.

Okay, you have the psychological aspect down. That's about one half of a good villain. Now onto the other half: How is Scarface/Ventriloquist a direct threat to the people of Gotham and to Batman? A villain is not a villain if the hero can take him apart in two seconds, even if it is Batman.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And the concept of a man, wearing make up or being disfigured, then spending the rest of his life playing tricks on socity is ridiculous.

What you call "tricks" most people would call "murder," but I guess the principle is kind of the same.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:39 pm

Shadowman wrote:Okay, you have the psychological aspect down. That's about one half of a good villain. Now onto the other half: How is Scarface/Ventriloquist a direct threat to the people of Gotham and to Batman? A villain is not a villain if the hero can take him apart in two seconds, even if it is Batman.

I thought that was obvious when I suggested he'd be tied to the Falcone crime family.

After the events of the last film its conceivable that all the families are at war with each other.Wesaker could try to be taking full control.

Bear in mind, I'm not suggesting he be the only or even main villain.

What you call "tricks" most people would call "murder," but I guess the principle is kind of the same.

"murder" is the end result of his schemes, but I see where you going with that.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:37 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:After the events of the last film its conceivable that all the families are at war with each other.Wesaker could try to be taking full control.

That already happened. In TDK the various mob bosses are all in the aftermath of an apparently vicious war. Joker comes in, offering to help them with their Bat problem, but at the same time edges out each one of them, claiming all of their power as his own. By the climax, he's assimilated the majority of the mob.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:49 am

Shadowman wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:After the events of the last film its conceivable that all the families are at war with each other.Wesaker could try to be taking full control.

That already happened. In TDK the various mob bosses are all in the aftermath of an apparently vicious war. Joker comes in, offering to help them with their Bat problem, but at the same time edges out each one of them, claiming all of their power as his own. By the climax, he's assimilated the majority of the mob.

Not exactly.

True there was some "in fighting", but the families were not in a full out war with each other.

And what the Joker did fits into what I'm talking about.By the end of the film he took over some of the families, while the leaders of other may have been killed.

With the Joker now gone, it leaves a void.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:08 am

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:With the Joker now gone, it leaves a void.

Mafia politics aren't complicated. They'd have had a new leader by the end of the week.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:51 am

Shadowman wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:With the Joker now gone, it leaves a void.

Mafia politics aren't complicated. They'd have had a new leader by the end of the week.

Ummm, I cant begin to tell you how wrong you are.

News Credits: 767 · by **Dead Metal** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:58 am

This is what's always bugged me about the Batman villains, 90 % of them are all mob bosses with just a few handful that have "powers" and I've always thought they where kinda boring and exchangeable, well most of them. Then there is Spider-Man who has mob bosses, super-villains with powers, mob bosses with powers, monsters, aliens, lunatics who wear aliens, gods and normal guys with gadgets. And quite few of those are pretty well known by the general public, while Batman's villains are mostly unknown with just a select few famous ones who are constantly brought to public attention, like the Joker (probably the most well known comic book villain though), Penguin, Two-face, Cat-woman, Riddler, Freeze (ironically a generic no-name villain till Batman TAS happened).
the more I think about it I want Nolan using a villain who's never really been used outside of the comics and make him more unique, I mean it worked for Freeze and Riddler.

And you know what's hilarious, when I went to watch The Dark Knight in theatres I noticed a bit of confusion as to why the MARVEL movie logo wasn't shown during the opening as if to say all super heroes are Marvel comic characters. Oh I love the general public super hero fans. :lol:

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:50 pm

Dead Metal wrote:And you know what's hilarious, when I went to watch The Dark Knight in theatres I noticed a bit of confusion as to why the MARVEL movie logo wasn't shown during the opening as if to say all super heroes are Marvel comic characters. Oh I love the general public super hero fans.

Are you serious??

And that is interesting about Spidies baddies.

News Credits: 767 · by **Dead Metal** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:13 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:And you know what's hilarious, when I went to watch The Dark Knight in theatres I noticed a bit of confusion as to why the MARVEL movie logo wasn't shown during the opening as if to say all super heroes are Marvel comic characters. Oh I love the general public super hero fans.

Are you serious??

And that is interesting about Spidies baddies.

Yes I'm serious, over here the general public believes that Batman and Superman are Marvel characters. I believe it has something to do with the fact that most super hero movies released in theatres over the past 10 years have been Marvel movies.
The only people who know the difference are those that read superhero comics or are in constant contact with them.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:16 pm

Dead Metal wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:And you know what's hilarious, when I went to watch The Dark Knight in theatres I noticed a bit of confusion as to why the MARVEL movie logo wasn't shown during the opening as if to say all super heroes are Marvel comic characters. Oh I love the general public super hero fans.

Are you serious??

And that is interesting about Spidies baddies.

Yes I'm serious, over here the general public believes that Batman and Superman are Marvel characters. I believe it has something to do with the fact that most super hero movies released in theatres over the past 10 years have been Marvel movies.
The only people who know the difference are those that read superhero comics or are in constant contact with them.

Do you mind if I ask where your from?

News Credits: 767 · by **Dead Metal** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:37 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:And you know what's hilarious, when I went to watch The Dark Knight in theatres I noticed a bit of confusion as to why the MARVEL movie logo wasn't shown during the opening as if to say all super heroes are Marvel comic characters. Oh I love the general public super hero fans.

Are you serious??

And that is interesting about Spidies baddies.

Yes I'm serious, over here the general public believes that Batman and Superman are Marvel characters. I believe it has something to do with the fact that most super hero movies released in theatres over the past 10 years have been Marvel movies.
The only people who know the difference are those that read superhero comics or are in constant contact with them.

Do you mind if I ask where your from?

Germany.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:00 pm

Dead Metal wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:And you know what's hilarious, when I went to watch The Dark Knight in theatres I noticed a bit of confusion as to why the MARVEL movie logo wasn't shown during the opening as if to say all super heroes are Marvel comic characters. Oh I love the general public super hero fans.

Are you serious??

And that is interesting about Spidies baddies.

Yes I'm serious, over here the general public believes that Batman and Superman are Marvel characters. I believe it has something to do with the fact that most super hero movies released in theatres over the past 10 years have been Marvel movies.
The only people who know the difference are those that read superhero comics or are in constant contact with them.

Do you mind if I ask where your from?

Germany.

Good to know thanks.

News Credits: 4 · by **G1Sizzle** » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:27 am

Shadowman, have you ever seen the episodes of Batman: TAS with the Ventriloquist and Scarface? If not, I'd recommend you go have a look at them, and you'll see why sto_vo_kor thinks they'd make a great villain. Those episodes creeped me the **** out.

News Credits: 33 · by **Amelie** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:47 pm

Shadowman wrote:No one wants to see a movie about children being killed and tortured and I'm amazed you'd even suggest something so horrible.

It happens all over the world, all the time, and it really would give a character that real "evil" or insane feeling. Could give the character some read hard-core realism. Maybe child soldiers?

I'm not too bothered by the villian as long as the story holds water. They could have the Haribo Bear as long as the story didn't suck.

News Credits: 2 · by **Shadowman** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:18 am

Amelie wrote:
Shadowman wrote:No one wants to see a movie about children being killed and tortured and I'm amazed you'd even suggest something so horrible.

It happens all over the world, all the time, and it really would give a character that real "evil" or insane feeling. Could give the character some read hard-core realism. Maybe child soldiers?

Just because it's real doesn't mean it's a good idea to put it on the big screen. Even Star Wars cut away before Vader killed those kids, and any character who mentioned it afterwords was visibly disgusted by it.

by **victoryconvoy** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:23 pm

deathstroke and deadshot!!!!!!

News Credits: 3 · by **Midnight_Fox** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:08 pm

Shadowman wrote:
Amelie wrote:
Shadowman wrote:No one wants to see a movie about children being killed and tortured and I'm amazed you'd even suggest something so horrible.

It happens all over the world, all the time, and it really would give a character that real "evil" or insane feeling. Could give the character some read hard-core realism. Maybe child soldiers?

Just because it's real doesn't mean it's a good idea to put it on the big screen. Even Star Wars cut away before Vader killed those kids, and any character who mentioned it afterwords was visibly disgusted by it.

My problem with people suggesting him becoming a child killer would be because it steps on another DC villains toes: the original Toyman.

I still think it should be Black Mask and Penguin, even though Nolan said he'd never do Penguin(IIRC). The fact that both of them are canonical mob bosses who have run the entire city of Gotham make them perfect for the way Nolan does his organized crime centric version.

by **victoryconvoy** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:21 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 and shadowman need to write this movie!!
I just started reading up on this forum listening to them
argue about the script and who should be the bad guy in it
and I have to say that I think they have a pretty good idea
on what to do!!!I'm not kidding!!!I would lve to see the movie take place a month or two after the events of the dark night with a very dangerous gangwar for control of
Gotham.When I first heard the idea for the ventriliquist
I thought that was just f^cking stupid,but the more he was described i really like where the charecterization of him
was going............BTW...make second bad guy deathstroke or deadshot!!

by **victoryconvoy** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:27 pm

Shadowman wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:right..........like a villian wearing a burlap sack and useing a fear gas calling himseld "The Scarecrow" is more realistic .

Or like a guy wearing clown make up, calling himself the joker is more realistic.

IT WORKED!!!!PERIOD!!!!

Scarecrow was a psychology expert who used a biochemical weapon to cause intense frightening hallucination in his victims, and used that mask to spray the toxin, protect himself from it, and use it's visage to exacerbate the hallucinations. The Joker was a psychotic criminal genius who loved to cause panic and chaos, and had tons and tons of contingency plans, and above all else, wanted to prove that everyone is as deranged as he is.

Also, I can't believe you of all people forgot this, none of the characters took either of them seriously at first. Falcone was unimpressed with Crane's mask, and even Crane said it doesn't have an effect on sane people. Everyone though the Joker was ridiculous at first, too. No one took him seriously until he started making his really big power plays. Batman even thought he wasn't a threat at first. "One man or the entire mob? He can wait."

I agree with you, to an extent, though. Despite having somewhat unrealistic aspects, they were still portrayed realistically.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Neither were really realistic concepts till Nolan found a way.

How can you possibly portray a ventriloquist dummy as a realistic, threatening villain? I have an imagination, and I can make sense of just about anything. But if it's between a guy with a ventriloquist dummy and a man in hastily applied clown make-up holding a knife to my face chattering about why he's an insane criminal, guess which one I'm more intimidated by?

SAW THAT IS JUST A DUMMY EVERYONE IS SCARED OF THAT THING
at least i am

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Besides....the Ventriloquist and Scarface always employed others for those things.

Of course he does, almost all of Batman's villains do. But you may recall that Batman's best villains can also take him in a fist-fight.

which is why wolverine woul beat batman but that's another story

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:20 pm

victoryconvoy wrote:sto_vo_kor_2000 and shadowman need to write this movie!!
I just started reading up on this forum listening to them
argue about the script and who should be the bad guy in it
and I have to say that I think they have a pretty good idea
on what to do!!!I'm not kidding!!!I would lve to see the movie take place a month or two after the events of the dark night with a very dangerous gangwar for control of
Gotham.When I first heard the idea for the ventriliquist
I thought that was just f^cking stupid,but the more he was described i really like where the charecterization of him
was going............BTW...make second bad guy deathstroke or deadshot!!

Thanks for the good word.

Now I can see Deadshot in a Nolan film, but not Deathstroke.

News Credits: 3 · by **Midnight_Fox** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:23 am

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
victoryconvoy wrote:sto_vo_kor_2000 and shadowman need to write this movie!!
I just started reading up on this forum listening to them
argue about the script and who should be the bad guy in it
and I have to say that I think they have a pretty good idea
on what to do!!!I'm not kidding!!!I would lve to see the movie take place a month or two after the events of the dark night with a very dangerous gangwar for control of
Gotham.When I first heard the idea for the ventriliquist
I thought that was just f^cking stupid,but the more he was described i really like where the charecterization of him
was going............BTW...make second bad guy deathstroke or deadshot!!

Thanks for the good word.

Now I can see Deadshot in a Nolan film, but not Deathstroke.

Is it because Deathstroke is more a Titans villain or is it because of the amount of time Slade's beaten up the Bat?

Deadshot could work, but I think he'd be a bit more of a minor 3rd villain. On the same thinking(assuming we're thinking Deadshot hired to kill the Bat), they could throw in David Cain.

by **victoryconvoy** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:06 am

hell yea deathstroke has kicked the bats ass forever
feminde me who is davic kain

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:12 am

Midnight_Fox wrote:Is it because Deathstroke is more a Titans villain or is it because of the amount of time Slade's beaten up the Bat?

No its got to do with Slade just not fitting in to well with the style of stories Nolan has done so far.

And I'm really only aware of 1 good fight between these 2, and I wouldnt call it a beat downs on Bats by Slade, and I'm not aware of how many times [as you put it].Care to enlighten me?

by **The Legend** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:00 pm

Deadshot was featured in the Gotham Knights DVD that was supposed to bridge the gap from Begins to Dark Knight. Of course anything there can be retconed as Nolan wasn't involved in that project [as far as I remember anyway].