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Now You're Thinking With Plot Holes

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Now You're Thinking With Plot Holes

Postby Capt.Failure » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:01 pm

A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.
-Wikipedia definition of plot holes


Has everybody got that? Ok, good. Now we can begin.

So more than a few threads have been derailed over discussion of the plot of the previous two films. Let's redirect that energy hear to save other threads the trouble. Quite simply the trouble is accusations of plot holes by people who frankly do not know the definition of the term.

What counts as a plot hole? As the above quote dictates it's something that goes against the logic of the established plot, or blatantly leaves out information relevant to the plot. Amazingly, this thread will discuss both films...Transformers, and Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen.

The sad truth about what people consider plot holes is that it can be influenced by bias. If you didn't like the film you'll see plot holes everywhere, usually fueled by inability or refusal to pay attention due to said dislike. Due to this we'll use what is listed at the Transformer's Wiki pages on the two films for examples. What we will not be listing are as follows due to thier common nature in any and all films:

1) Technical errors
2) Factual errors (getting the names and numbers of military equipment wrong, etc)
3) Continuity errors with no bearing on the plot (cups changing from glass to plastic between shots, etc)
4) Errors in sattelite continuities (books, comics, etc)

With that out of the way, let's begin.

Transformers (2007]
Barricade seems to disappear after the highway scene, as he is never shown again in the movie or the sequel.


A continuity error, at least if he doesn't show up in the third film.

Also unclear is why the military thought they could smuggle the All Spark out of town on a slow-moving helicopter, when fast-flying guys like Starscream and Megatron were around and well aware of the cube's location.


Agreed that helicopters are far too slow for evacuating anything in the given scenario, but at the same time only those who'd been at the Hoover Dam knew of the true threat so this is acceptable.

Why didn't Bumblebee use the All Spark to restore himself as Frenzy had done? Most likely because he was unaware the Allspark had such healing properties.


I've always wondered this myself. Rule of Drama was probably in play as well.

Fans have speculated that Starscream actually participated in the F-22 attack run on Megatron. While there's no concrete evidence either way, it doesn't make much sense for him to be destroying the jets beforehand if he's just going to turn around and help them in their mission a few seconds later. When asked about it, screenwriter Roberto Orci explicitly refused to address this theory since it would pose a plot thread for the sequel.


A deliberate Shrug of God rather than a continuity error. To be fair, there's no reason for him not to attack them either.

For that matter, the fact that Starscream completely incapacitates Ironhide and Ratchet (they're absent from the last eleven minutes of the fight) is not made clear. When we last see them, they are falling down, but Ironhide is still talking and moving.


While Ironhide did sound injured, they could have done a better job with this.

Epps emphatically states that F-22 pilots would never fly between buildings, as they'd just observed Starscream doing. Yet a few minutes later, that's exactly what the real F-22s do.


Yeah that one was pretty bad. :BANG_HEAD:

The denizens of Mission City are remarkably well-composed considering that global communications networks have been shut down. You'd think there'd be a bit more "panic in the streets"... especially with all the audible explosions, and people fleeing from previous battlegrounds. Yet nobody ever panics until those freaking giant robots come literally crashing into the next nearby building. You'd think the girl whose steering wheel is brought to life by the Allspark would have bigger problems than Sam denting her car... such as those giant robots fighting everywhere. Weirdness censor doesn't even begin to describe this.


Gonna agree with this one. The film does not take into account the reactions of people to a global crisis.

Mission City itself.


This one's more complex, and something that's bugged me. Mission City seems to become Los Angeles between the two films but I'll put that plot hole here. I wouldn't be surprised if Paramount wanted to avoid flak from people sensetive to scenes of city destruction in a post-9/11 world, so they invented a fictional city. In the original script it was actually Las Vegas.

That's it for the first film. RotF will be in the next post. For a list of other errors not pertaining to the plot, check here: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers_%282007%29#Errors and http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Mission_City

Please hold your responses until I've posted the second half...
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Re: Now You're Thinking With Plot Holes

Postby Capt.Failure » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:15 pm

And now for the big one...

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
Most of the NEST and American soldiers are seen using small-caliber arms such as assault rifles, machine guns and sniper rifles against the Decepticons, despite the previous film establishing that "high-heat" sabot rounds were the only means of penetrating Decepticon armour. Even if they somehow figured out how to make small caliber ammunition achieve the "high heat" required to damage Decepticon armour, it is extremely unlikely that such low-powered weapons would do any meaningful damage that warrants such widespread usage. After all, in real life, you can't kill a tank with a machine gun, well, unless you're in G.I. Joe.


The guns they carry, upon inspection, appear heavily modified. It's not beyond reason they modified their guns to carry specialized high heat ammo.

The notion that a big metal box (containing a complex electronic mechanism shouting to be released) would ever make it through airport luggage screening is a bit on the implausible side. The novelization of the film attributes this to Mikaela's Epic Hotness distracting the guard into just letting her through; she also claims that the box contains expensive mechanic's tools which might look strange in an x-ray. Neither explanation is present in the film itself, however.


In a film with a reputation for it's poor humor (which even I didn't like) this is simply Rule of Funny, and does not fall into the realm of a plot hole.

When Alice attacks Sam and his friends, the box Wheelie is imprisoned within is taken along, but the box is not seen when Mikela and Leo escape from the foundry in Bumblebee (the box should still be inside the wreckage of the car Mikaela hotwired at the college).


This is a plot hole. Can't argue that.

Given the Autobots are part of NEST and are dependent on the US Air Force for transportation around the world, it is not clear why Major Lennox had to be alerted to the fact the Autobots were on the east coast of the United States. Do the Autobot normally go on unexplained joyrides?


This was made with the assumption that the Autobots are forced to stay on Diago Garcia. There's no evidence to suggest they have to if they keep a low profile.

Where does Mikaela get the padding and gauze to bandage up Sam's hand?


One can easily assume Simmon's box of equipment for busting into the museum a few minutes earlier.

When Jetfire teleports to Egypt, Wheelie is seen landing by him, but disappears until the group reaches the border guards. After they arrive at the pyramids, Wheelie is seen rolling in with the quartet of humans, but is never seen again.


The other true plot hole in the film. Wheelie seems to be a magnet for these. :P

There's no rational reason for Simmons to climb the pyramid after Devastator. It looks like he's enabling the Navy ship to "fire on his position", which is useful when the firer can't see the target. However, as we find out just before the railgun is fired, the ship can see the pyramid. (And railguns are line-of-sight weapons, anyway.) So, Simmons didn't need to climb; he could have stayed someplace safe, called the ship, and told them, "Take a look at the pyramid, and shoot the giant robot tearing it up." It's also hard to believe he wasn't crushed by the flood of pyramid stones, which at one point are raining down on all four sides of the structure.


This would also hold up if it wasn't totally in character for Simmons to do something this stupid just to be in the middle of the action. As for the falling debris, no doubt he got lucky.

But we're not done yet. It's time for everyone's favorite fallback complaint: Geographical Errors!

And those are...

...not going to be listed. Why? Because short of making map writers cringe, how did they effect the continuity of the film? Sure there isn't an airplane graveyard behind the Air and Space Museum. Sure the Pyramid of Giza isn't located on the Gulf of Aqaba. I don't deny such errors are in the film, mostly due to me being neither blind nor stupid. But I'm not gonna make accusations that the film's plot falls apart because of it, because it didn't. Remember the definition of a plot hole from the first post. The geographical issues do not fall under such classification.

This thread is now open for discussion.

Edit: Whoops, forgot sources. All info about RotF's errors came from http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Revenge_of_the_Fallen_%28film%29

Had Michael Bay's editing skills there for a moment I guess. ;)
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Re: Now You're Thinking With Plot Holes

Postby dirk2243 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:14 pm

Motto: "If you don't believe me, just ask me.....I'll tell you all about it."
I liked both movies, but I'd only like to hit on Wheelie here

When interrogated as to why he was there, he screamed he was dead without the shard, there gonnna whack me without the shard....etc, etc..... and his small size. I'd hide out too in the middle of a showdown in the desert especially if I'd switched sides earlier from con to autobot.

Also, rail guns aren't on ships like that at this current time. This was probably mostly for dramatization of the movie.
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Re: Now You're Thinking With Plot Holes

Postby Wing Saber II » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:17 pm

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A thing i'd like to ask about:
Wasn't Whellie one of the Transformers created by the shard in Sam's house?
If so, How does he have a mission, and how is he already a Decepticon?
If not, why would they send him to get the shard? He's small, so he can be easily defeated, and he's loud and not to smart, so he wouldn't be good for sneaking in and grabbing it
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Re: Now You're Thinking With Plot Holes

Postby dirk2243 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:21 pm

Motto: "If you don't believe me, just ask me.....I'll tell you all about it."
Wing Saber II wrote:A thing i'd like to ask about:
Wasn't Whellie one of the Transformers created by the shard in Sam's house?
If so, How does he have a mission, and how is he already a Decepticon?
If not, why would they send him to get the shard? He's small, so he can be easily defeated, and he's loud and not to smart, so he wouldn't be good for sneaking in and grabbing it


No, he drove up and scanned the bag that had the shard in it. Then reported it to soundwave who told her to follow her. I believe soundwave did similar to Wheelie as he did ratchet, but thats just my opinion how he got there?
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Re: Now You're Thinking With Plot Holes

Postby Capt.Failure » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:25 pm

dirk2243 wrote:Also, rail guns aren't on ships like that at this current time. This was probably mostly for dramatization of the movie.


Yeah, I didn't list that since it's a common belief (at least what I've seen) that if the military is testing a "prototype" than that means they've already wheeled out a working variant. Didn't we have SR-71's in the air years before they "debuted" for the first time? Understandable, of course, since they ran classified missions.

Plus in the film Simmons still called the railgun a prototype.
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Re: Now You're Thinking With Plot Holes

Postby dirk2243 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:31 pm

Motto: "If you don't believe me, just ask me.....I'll tell you all about it."
Capt.Failure wrote:
dirk2243 wrote:Also, rail guns aren't on ships like that at this current time. This was probably mostly for dramatization of the movie.


Yeah, I didn't list that since it's a common belief (at least what I've seen) that if the military is testing a "prototype" than that means they've already wheeled out a working variant. Didn't we have SR-71's in the air years before they "debuted" for the first time? Understandable, of course, since they ran classified missions.

Plus in the film Simmons still called the railgun a prototype.


Good call. I'll push that believe button there
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Re: Now You're Thinking With Plot Holes

Postby Capt.Failure » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:53 pm

dirk2243 wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
dirk2243 wrote:Also, rail guns aren't on ships like that at this current time. This was probably mostly for dramatization of the movie.


Yeah, I didn't list that since it's a common belief (at least what I've seen) that if the military is testing a "prototype" than that means they've already wheeled out a working variant. Didn't we have SR-71's in the air years before they "debuted" for the first time? Understandable, of course, since they ran classified missions.

Plus in the film Simmons still called the railgun a prototype.


Good call. I'll push that believe button there


It's like alot of the "plot holes" in RotF. Wheelie aside, nothing accused of one holds up under scrutiny and most others are technical and factual errors, which are not plot holes by definition of the term.

Take using the railgun on Devestator. Why not shoot the Sun Harvester with it? A few things easily come to mind:

1) Railguns currently can only fire one shot before the barrel needs to be realigned completely.
2) Simmons said it was a prototype (see above)
3) Despite the situation, I'm sure Egypt wouldn't take kindly to US Navy ships firing Mach 7 tungsten slugs into a major historical landmark.

All the above listed don't take much thinking to fill in the plot hole, same with the other ones for RotF. If anything, the first film had way more actual plot holes.
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Re: Now You're Thinking With Plot Holes

Postby dirk2243 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:52 pm

Motto: "If you don't believe me, just ask me.....I'll tell you all about it."
Here is a question I have. Not so much a hole, but perhaps a forgotten detail? Megs was offline underwater and I'm assuming Brawl, Blackout, and perhaps Bonecrusher were close by. Did they have to really kill the little one for parts? Couldn't just look around?
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Re: Now You're Thinking With Plot Holes

Postby Capt.Failure » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:06 pm

dirk2243 wrote:Here is a question I have. Not so much a hole, but perhaps a forgotten detail? Megs was offline underwater and I'm assuming Brawl, Blackout, and perhaps Bonecrusher were close by. Did they have to really kill the little one for parts? Couldn't just look around?


Always figured that Decepticons are just jerks and Scalpel was a bit of a sadist.
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