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I'd hazard a guess that our friends have incorrectly labelled these very weak story elements as plot holes simply because there's no familiar common term for them that comes to mind. Make of that what you will.

I'm curious as to why you'd bring this up again though. Are you a glutton for punishment or just love fanning the flames?

Barricade was in Revenge of the Fallen, just for a moment. He was the one who grabbed Sam's parents off the street in Paris.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Barricade was in Revenge of the Fallen, just for a moment. He was the one who grabbed Sam's parents off the street in Paris.

Sure looked like a drone to me. At least when you compare its face to the other drones.

That's what i thought at first, then I did the whole slow motion pause-play on the DVD and it looked just like Barricade, though not black and white.

I thought his head looked exactly like Grindors head. look at Grindor's head right before Prime rips it in 2 during the forest scene and then again at the parents abductor.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Epps emphatically states that F-22 pilots would never fly between buildings, as they'd just observed Starscream doing. Yet a few minutes later, that's exactly what the real F-22s do.

Yeah that one was pretty bad.

When Starscream arrived, there was no fighting yet, so there was no reason for the fighters to fly so low. However, IIRC, when the real F-22s were flying between buildings, the battle had started, and there would be more of a reason to fly low, such as so that they could get better shots at the Decepticons.

dirk2243 wrote:Here is a question I have. Not so much a hole, but perhaps a forgotten detail? Megs was offline underwater and I'm assuming Brawl, Blackout, and perhaps Bonecrusher were close by. Did they have to really kill the little one for parts? Couldn't just look around?

They may well have used some parts from the other Decepticons, such as Brawl's tank treads. It's possible that they needed "fresher" parts, as well. Brawl, Blackout, and Bonecrusher had all been killed while fighting, so they would all have been damaged. The Doctor could have needed parts that were damaged on all of the corpses down there.

call them plot holes, call them gaps in logic they exist

Explanations like, rule of drama, rule of comedy arent really explanations but excuses.

As for other plot holes/gaps in logic

- how come bumblebee couldnt detect the pretender

- why did the primes sacrifice themselves if they were the only ones who could stop him

- how does one become a descendent of a prime. How do TF's propogate / (i dont want bay to answer that one)

- Why did they place the matrix, the key to the sun eater, so close to the sun eater.

- why did sam and the warrior goddess decide to walk a few miles to prime, when bee was beside them and could have driven them in a matter of minutes

- what was bee doing from that point until he turned up later to protect sam

- why did simmons need to climb the pyramid to say fire on my co-ordinates. surely the great pyramids of giza's co-ordinates would be pretty well known

- why didnt they destroy the sun eater as opposed to devestator. The rason being egypt wouldn tlike it. They just entered egypt without permission, there was already a diplomatic incident in place.

- how did the population of mission city/la all get MIB mind zapped in order for the TF's to be a secret. likewise the citizens in Shanghai

shamone wrote:call them plot holes, call them gaps in logic they exist

Explanations like, rule of drama, rule of comedy arent really explanations but excuses.

As for other plot holes/gaps in logic

- how come bumblebee couldnt detect the pretender

- why did the primes sacrifice themselves if they were the only ones who could stop him

- how does one become a descendent of a prime. How do TF's propogate / (i dont want bay to answer that one)

- Why did they place the matrix, the key to the sun eater, so close to the sun eater.

- why did sam and the warrior goddess decide to walk a few miles to prime, when bee was beside them and could have driven them in a matter of minutes

- what was bee doing from that point until he turned up later to protect sam

- why did simmons need to climb the pyramid to say fire on my co-ordinates. surely the great pyramids of giza's co-ordinates would be pretty well known

- why didnt they destroy the sun eater as opposed to devestator. The rason being egypt wouldn tlike it. They just entered egypt without permission, there was already a diplomatic incident in place.

- how did the population of mission city/la all get MIB mind zapped in order for the TF's to be a secret. likewise the citizens in Shanghai

Not all are plotholes, more of....just require re-watching again.

Bumblebee did detect the Pretender. He doused her with antifreeze and made her bump her head on the dashboard.

Why did they walk instead of take bumblebee..... Sam told him to be the decoy and draw the decepticons away. (Mostly Starscream since he was shooting at them) which is what he was doing until he showed up later also.

The MIB clearing the citizens minds thing....ehhh, it's like in the begining of the movie where they were posting the Shanghi video and got scooped. People that hadn't actually seen it could be thinking it's a conspiracy theory. (like people believe about 9-11) And the UFO thing. do they exist or no?

Your other points have some valid excuses, but in the end it's a movie.

Tekka wrote:I'd hazard a guess that our friends have incorrectly labelled these very weak story elements as plot holes simply because there's no familiar common term for them that comes to mind. Make of that what you will.

I'm curious as to why you'd bring this up again though. Are you a glutton for punishment or just love fanning the flames?

It's because the vast majority of people who comment on this don't know what they're talking about. While some elements of the film's stories are indeed weak they're a far cry from a plot hole as the term is defined (see the top of the first post).

shamone wrote:call them plot holes, call them gaps in logic they exist

Explanations like, rule of drama, rule of comedy arent really explanations but excuses.

As for other plot holes/gaps in logic

You've just demonstrated that you don't know the difference between a plot hole and a trope. Now, on to your examples...

- how come bumblebee couldnt detect the pretender

She's an infiltrator, and we know Autobots and Decepticons can shield their energy signatures at times.

- why did the primes sacrifice themselves if they were the only ones who could stop him

"The Fallen was stronger than his brothers..." is a fact Jetfire outright states. It took a Prime's power combined with that of a Seeker to kill him for good. The original Primes combined could only take him down long enough to hide the Matrix. These are well known facts you chose to ignore.

- how does one become a descendent of a prime. How do TF's propogate / (i dont want bay to answer that one)

Transformer reproduction is never clearly defined in any of the sattelite media or other continuities. The movieverse only elaborates on the fact that the AllSpark is involved to some degree, but all Transformers it produces are feral. The fanboy in me wants to speculate transferal of an aspect of a "parent" spark is required to give the Transformer sentience, but I'll give you half this one.

- Why did they place the matrix, the key to the sun eater, so close to the sun eater.

1. The Fallen was right there.
2. They couldn't kill him.
3. It was do or die, and Earth hung in the balance.

- why did sam and the warrior goddess decide to walk a few miles to prime, when bee was beside them and could have driven them in a matter of minutes

We argued back and forth about this before, but upon a recent viewing of RotF this one falls apart as a plot hole even more. Simmons and Leo with the Twins, and 'bee by himself distracted Star Scream. Sam and Mikaela took off on foot. However, it wasn't until the pair approached the ruined villiage that the battle lines were drawn. Until that moment it appeared to be a clear sprint to Optimus and the soldiers.

- what was bee doing from that point until he turned up later to protect sam

The fact he's clearly trying to stay hidden indicates he was sneaking.

- why did simmons need to climb the pyramid to say fire on my co-ordinates. surely the great pyramids of giza's co-ordinates would be pretty well known

Did you read my second post? For Simmons it's something his character would do. The guy's insane, remember? I thought two movies established this.

- why didnt they destroy the sun eater as opposed to devestator. The rason being egypt wouldn tlike it. They just entered egypt without permission, there was already a diplomatic incident in place.

You don't know how railguns work. Prototypes used in testing right now require complete barrel realignment after a single shot, a process that takes hours. Considering the Sun Harvester was still burried mostly, Devestator was the obvious threat. Also I'm not sure you understand the political fallout of destroying a histoic landmark without permission, especially with the Egyptians and the Pyramids.

- how did the population of mission city/la all get MIB mind zapped in order for the TF's to be a secret. likewise the citizens in Shanghai

As demonstrated, money talks or in this case prevents talking. Sam's parents would basically get anything they wanted to keep quiet, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that the US government paid the entire city to keep their mouths shut. Though it's clearly becoming a problem considering how Galloway reacted.

dirk2243 wrote:

shamone wrote:call them plot holes, call them gaps in logic they exist

Explanations like, rule of drama, rule of comedy arent really explanations but excuses.

As for other plot holes/gaps in logic

- how come bumblebee couldnt detect the pretender

- why did the primes sacrifice themselves if they were the only ones who could stop him

- how does one become a descendent of a prime. How do TF's propogate / (i dont want bay to answer that one)

- Why did they place the matrix, the key to the sun eater, so close to the sun eater.

- why did sam and the warrior goddess decide to walk a few miles to prime, when bee was beside them and could have driven them in a matter of minutes

- what was bee doing from that point until he turned up later to protect sam

- why did simmons need to climb the pyramid to say fire on my co-ordinates. surely the great pyramids of giza's co-ordinates would be pretty well known

- why didnt they destroy the sun eater as opposed to devestator. The rason being egypt wouldn tlike it. They just entered egypt without permission, there was already a diplomatic incident in place.

- how did the population of mission city/la all get MIB mind zapped in order for the TF's to be a secret. likewise the citizens in Shanghai

Not all are plotholes, more of....just require re-watching again.

Bumblebee did detect the Pretender. He doused her with antifreeze and made her bump her head on the dashboard.

Why did they walk instead of take bumblebee..... Sam told him to be the decoy and draw the decepticons away. (Mostly Starscream since he was shooting at them) which is what he was doing until he showed up later also.

The MIB clearing the citizens minds thing....ehhh, it's like in the begining of the movie where they were posting the Shanghi video and got scooped. People that hadn't actually seen it could be thinking it's a conspiracy theory. (like people believe about 9-11) And the UFO thing. do they exist or no?

Your other points have some valid excuses, but in the end it's a movie.

he did say to bee act as decoy. next shot sees starscream hitting the emp, then landing on the pyramid beside megatron

i figured that was bee protecting mikeala more than detecting the pretender. if he did detect her that leaves an even bigger gap in logic. he knew she was a decepticon, so bumped her head and doused her gree n fluid, and left it at that. I think i would rather have pee wee herman as my protector than bee

the mission city stuff would have worked if starscream hit an emp, wiping out cameras, phones, etc. then it would rely on peoples memory and personal statement. although if there was a large enough consensus then it would be hard to deny.