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Peer Pressure

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Peer Pressure

Postby Diem » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:01 pm

So this is going to be one of those serious threads that I fart out from time to time. In this case I want to talk about peer pressure.

Actually pressure might not be the right word. But we all remember when we were kids and there was that one rich kids in the neighbourhood whose parents would buy him all the combaticons while we made do with the Swindle with the broken arm that we got at a yard sale. Fair enough, he was just one kid. And no doubt he would end up dying choking on his own smugness while we lived long lives.

But now, thanks to the internet, we live in a huge neighbourhood. Awareness of what we might be missing out on grows as we can now discover every nugget of information about a figure months or even years before it is released. Also between 3rd Party, imports and collector figures like the Masterpiece line our average expenditure is sky-rocketing. But perhaps the biggest issue is social media. Any time a figure comes out that is close to or beyond our means and leaves us just salivating we can expect to see dozens of people casually saying "pre-ordered."

Is anyone else feeling a little overwhelmed?

Every Botcon is of course a lottery. A whim of FunPub's location can make the difference about whether we go or not. But if we don't go we can expect to hear a huge amount about the awesome things we're missing. The recent Fort Max is another example, really showing the difference between the haves and have-nots. Maybe it's just simple jealousy on my part but I severely envy anyone who is in the position that they can arbitrarily drop $350 on a toy without a second thought. In my case the desire to own what is literally the most sought-after grail in this hobby is just, JUST stronger than the strong sense of unease I feel at the idea both of having to pull together enough cash for frivolities in this economy and the conscious knowledge that I would be spending that much on what is just a play thing.

Actually, how much of that is desire, and how much of that is just me wanting what all the rich kids in the neighbourhood have?

There are of course easy solutions. Stay off the social media. Take a deep breath and say "It's all just toys." And of course I'm not criticizing anyone who IS able to buy anything they want. I'm sure you worked hard or got lucky to get where you are today. And ultimately I'm not going to get into a position where I am buying things I can't afford. But I just wanted to know if anyone else feels like they are getting sick of being the kid with the broken Swindle.

(also, on a totally unrelated note I added items for sale that are awesome, please click my sig below)
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Andrius » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:18 pm

I think you're spot on. I've definitely seen an uptick in my spending as I've gone from casually browsing sites like Seibertron to being a "member" of the community. Sure, there're an ever-growing number of exclusives, reissues, and 3rd party products competing for my cash and space. But I find myself more concerned with not missing out on something, particularly if it gets some fair praise from my "peers".

While trying to keep on top of everything, I think that some of us are secretly hoping that the pace of new product release slows a bit. Sadly, I'm doubtful that this dependence on an external shift will lead to the results we desire.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby BeastProwl » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:31 pm

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I feel the same way a lot of the time. I picked a heck of a series for it to be my first time completing a cast, because I never have before, unfortunately. And with the way the TF Prime line is being treated, I just don't have the scratch. But I'm on my way, gradually. But when it comes to things like Fort Max and FE Bulkhead, I just have to look on and drool. There's always a little sign that says "You can look, but you can't touch!"
That's basically my whole collecting habit in a nutshell.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Period » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:39 pm

I somewhat agree with you on this. I work so hard to make the money that I do, but I refuse to buy Transformers with credit cards. So, if I don't have the money, I don't get depressed or anything, I just wait until I can afford things I want. It does help to limit your scope to certain things. I will say that it does get frustrating though to have the money and not be able to find things.

When I see people talking about how they drop hundreds of dollars on toys, but can't afford to eat for the week, month or year is just plain silly and it actually makes me laugh. If you can't afford things, then you shouldn't be spending money on them. It's not worth going into debt over, starving over or breaking a relationship over.

Also, I refuse to believe that toys can make you happy. They are just items that we buy. They can't love us back. They can bring about happy memories and such, but only because we tie certain events to certain things. As I say to myself quite often, "You can't bring them with you when you die."

I also will say that I can't understand the urge and desire to buy Fort Max, especially at the price he's going for. I'm only 27, but my older brother and I had him when we were kids. Is he cool? I guess, but he is a huge brick. He's a big Transformer that takes up space and honestly in my eyes isn't worth the dough he goes for today. If we still had him, I would have sold him off promptly. He just isn't worth it to me. Maybe that's because I had him.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Blurrz » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:44 pm

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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Erailea » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:47 pm

I feel ya, somewhat.

I'm one of the people that pre-ordered Fort Maxx but it was only because it was on BBTS. If I can't scramble the cash together by the month before it's release, I'm going to have to cancel it. At a glance I'm pretty sure I can muscle it together since it's 5 months away (well, 5 until my deadline anyway), but one never knows what emergencies or distractions will come up. It does, however, mean that I can't buy a whole slew of other figures I would have otherwise purchased.

I still have that yearning to get a bunch of other things - MP Sideswipe, PRID Vehicon, Ironhide, Rumble, MP-16, MP 'Cracker - and it doesn't help when you see so many others saying they've gotten or will be getting them, but... that's life. It's a bit painful, but there nothing one can do about it, short of winning the lottery. Doesn't mean I can't be a bit jealous though.

One thing I will say about being strict on the budge thing is - it makes you sit down and think about what figures you truly want. I find I often see pictures of something and really want it, like so many others, but after a while I just don't care anymore. Bruticus is a prime example. I wanted him really badly when images of him first hit, but by the time SDCC rolled around I just didn't give a crap (even before all the issue with the figure came out). Same with the GDO's... Springer is still a little tempting, but he's at the bottom of the list of characters I care to obtain right now.

Just a matter of setting one's priorities, so to speak. You'll always want something someone else has, but it's more important to be happy with what you have and strive for those things you truly want. For me, Fort Max took precedence over MP Sideswipe and will keep me from buying several other figures between now and April, but, hey, sacrifices come with the territory, so long as they are smart ones anyway and not things like cheating yourself on food or not paying bills for a toy.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby RodimalToyota » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:00 pm

Peer pressure?

never felt that, only feel wallet pressure when too many awesome concepts hit the online retail world.
I would say I like the instant connection, instant knowledge, and instant sale that the internet has brought to us. It allows me to budget, which items are more important to not miss out on first and foremost.

Items that I can sense, or know will skyrocket, I will buy first, while others I will wait on as they most likely will stay at the retail level. Also It's not about how much money, it's how much stuff. I'll never need a room full of TF's, and anything I put a lower value on I sell.


and peer pressure is the wrong word.. No one is coming up to you saying...

BUY MP10 dude, or i'll call you lame!"
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby MGrotusque » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:00 pm

I wanted too get FM. Money isn't an issue for me but what stopped me from pulling the trigger is that it's 350 for a bran new figure. When Brave Max was released it was only 89 bucks or somethin. This figure isn't worth 350 to me. MAYBE 200.......at the most.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Diem » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:36 pm

z-span wrote: He just isn't worth it to me. Maybe that's because I had him.


Just to tell a little story, I grew up in the UK. People here may or may not know but the UK really got the bum end of the Transformers deal. Shockwave was never released there. Perceptor or Blaster? Forget it. Roadbuster or Whirl? Nope. The Predacons. Nada. No Swoop. How do you leave out just one member of a 5-man team?!?

But most pertinently there was no Fort Max. And this wasn't just a simple "you can't have", Hasbro pretty much Room 101'ed Fort Max out of existence. If the toy catalogs released in the UK were to be believed Scorponok's most deadly rival was...Metroplex. Yeah.

One Christmas, I must have been about 7 or 8 my parents took me and my cousins on a similar age to London to see the Christmas lights and along the way, to blow our Xmas dough, we stopped at Hamleys, a world class, famously expensive toy store unique to that city. While there, I saw something in one of those look-but-don't-touch glass cases. It took me a few minutes to figure out what it was since I only had a crappy memory of a crappy animation model to work with but I soon realized that I was looking at the head of Fortress Maximus and the hulking great thing behind it was the body. And my own head exploded. A toy that wasn't a toy? I felt like Agent Mulder when he first saw actual aliens, except that show wasn't around yet, so I felt like someone discovering something he hoped existed but he knew didn't.

Years later I would discover the truth through the magic of the Internet. That Fort Max had been released, though not in the UK. That a very limited release had been made in the UK but only through Hamleys. That it was the biggest, most sought-after TF there was. That my odds of owning one were about the same as my odds of owning the moon.

And now, here we are.

Erailea wrote:
I'm one of the people that pre-ordered Fort Maxx but it was only because it was on BBTS. If I can't scramble the cash together by the month before it's release, I'm going to have to cancel it. At a glance I'm pretty sure I can muscle it together since it's 5 months away (well, 5 until my deadline anyway), but one never knows what emergencies or distractions will come up.


I'm playing it the same way. This is the only chance we have, I suspect. Once the preorders are done the price will skyrocket, though not to quite the insane level of actual G1 Maxes.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Rodimus Prime » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:48 pm

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Peer pressure has never been a problem for me when collecting. I have never wanted a figure just because someone else was boasting about getting it. It comes down to 2 things: do I like the figure? and Can I afford the figure? Neither of those is influenced by any other person. I did pre-order Fortress Maximus, mainly because I had 1 before and I was forced to sell him to survive when I became homeless about 7 years ago. Yeah, the money I got for him helped me get through some tough times, but I haven't been able to get another 1 due to his high prices online, until now. I am most likely going to get him not because anyone else considers him a "grail" but because he was a cherished part of my collection to begin with. However, I am getting a little sour on him now, not because of the price, but because I don't have space. I was so elated when I saw that he will be re-released, all common sense went out the window, and I just had to have him. But now? Not so sure. That's why I'm glad for pre-order. If it was Buy It Now, I'd be out of $350, and a huge albeit cherished figure with nowhere to be displayed. It's all about common sense. Maybe your instincts should tell you when it comes to the financial aspect, but no matter what, let your own desire and sense of responsibility dictate your collection, not your supposed need to keep up with anyone else.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby DJrasmo » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:28 pm

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First of all...cant believe I am the first one to say; "you jelly?". LOL.

/ahem.

Anywho, seems to me OP wasn't really opining (see whut I did thar?) about peer pressure, per se. Personally I dont feel any pressure from this community at all, even when I see posts about Duque's entire 3-wall collection or Kanrabat's latest haul...all that stuff has, is, and always will be more about giving up props for people and supporting each others collection habits (like, 10 steps for robot nerds!). Aside from that its basic exchange of opinions and information about the community (releases, reviews, etc).

Seems to me OP has a bad case of teh jellys, in all honesty...but you gotta remember that's a fact of life. Everyone has a reason to be jealous of someone else, whether its a cooler car, higher paying job, hotter wife, etc. Maybe its just the fact that I am one of the "have's" as opposed to the "have nots"...but his post, as I read it, basically boils down to him complaining about how members of this community talking about their collections/collecting makes him feel bad.

Well, tough rocks pal. I don't have 1/10 the amount of figures Duque has, but I don't go getting my panties in a bunch and being all like "could you not post those pics please...makes my epeen feel real small..." When I see people who have rare and/or expensive bots (especially those few around here who have the entire MP line), I ignore that giant Big Gulp of Hatorade and realize that, either they have made sacrifices in their lives to be able to afford it, or they have made good decisions and worked hard in life so the don't need to sacrifice.

I feel almost NO competition around here at all...and I have NEVER read a post by someone and gotten the inclination that they were being haughty or snobbish, rubbing some new acquisition in the forum community's faces. Admittedly, there is a little bit of a "bragging" undertone occasionally...but I mostly attribute that to excitement brought on by "shiny new toy" syndrome than anything else.

Also, since this thread has quickly degenerated into a Fort Maxx debate...I am firmly in the Negative on him, scorponok and tripticon, for three reasons:
1. In the series, the characters basically sucked anyways. All three were the Keanu Reeves of the TF universe.
2. The toys Sucked also...thats right, with a capitol S. The originals were big, bulky, had crappy articulation/posability, the transformations mostly sucked (I am looking at YOU, tripticon!), and they broke more often than not.
3. I am intelligent enough to understand that, in this case, these companies are not pricing a toy based on the value of the actual merchandise, cost of production, etc. Fort Max is basically half a dozen square blocks of plastic that stick together and rotate around a little...how much production cost could that be? I could design him on Shapeway. The reason these people are charging $350 for him is because they are trying to sell nostalgia...and I find it insulting that a company would put out a chitty product with a ridiculous price tag because they assume I am an emotional sucker.

Now, Omega is a different story...HE had a personality, actual backstory, and depth within the series.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Diem » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:58 pm

DJrasmo wrote:
Anywho, seems to me OP wasn't really opining (see whut I did thar?) about peer pressure, per se.


Yeah, I admit it wasn't quite the right turn of phrase, but I couldn't think of a better way to put it.




Well, tough rocks pal. I don't have 1/10 the amount of figures Duque has, but I don't go getting my panties in a bunch and being all like "could you not post those pics please...makes my epeen feel real small..." When I see people who have rare and/or expensive bots (especially those few around here who have the entire MP line), I ignore that giant Big Gulp of Hatorade and realize that, either they have made sacrifices in their lives to be able to afford it, or they have made good decisions and worked hard in life so the don't need to sacrifice.


You're totally misreading what I'm saying. I have never asked anyone to stop posting anything and never would. If I feel jealous the impetus is up to me to back away. And I already said that I understand that other people worked hard to be in that position and that no criticism is levied against them.

I feel almost NO competition around here at all...and I have NEVER read a post by someone and gotten the inclination that they were being haughty or snobbish, rubbing some new acquisition in the forum community's faces. Admittedly, there is a little bit of a "bragging" undertone occasionally...but I mostly attribute that to excitement brought on by "shiny new toy" syndrome than anything else.
Agreed. I have never encountered a bragger and I don't really want to.


1. In the series, the characters basically sucked anyways. All three were the Keanu Reeves of the TF universe.

I have to disagree with this. The Rebirth is a fantastic story, partly because of the epic feel that the escalation of giant giant robots brought to the scene. Neither of the giant robots are especially well characterized but then it is a 3-part 80s cartoon that introduced a good 50 or so characters.

The Japanese cartoon? Both of the above giants have amazing characterization with Fortress as a far more pragmatic and uncompromising leader than previous Primes and Scorponok manipulating and deceiving everyone.

The Marvel comic? I admit I don't like the Spike/Max characterization but the Scorponok/Zarak contrast is great.

2. The toys Sucked also...thats right, with a capitol S. The originals were big, bulky, had crappy articulation/posability, the transformations mostly sucked (I am looking at YOU, tripticon!), and they broke more often than not.


Of course they were big and bulky! That was the point! Who the hell wants a city that isn't big enough to hold their other figures. And yes, they weren't articulated, but that's like criticizing the SNES for not having 3D games; it was the norm at the time and the technology wouldn't allow for it. Even today too much articulation would be counterproductive on a figure that huge. I admit that those are relevant factors now, but sometimes nostalgia is more important than gimmickery. As (I assume) a toy collector you must understand that.

And I have never heard of cityformers being any more breakable than their smaller brethren. Maybe you were too rough on them?

3. I am intelligent enough to understand that, in this case, these companies are not pricing a toy based on the value of the actual merchandise, cost of production, etc. Fort Max is basically half a dozen square blocks of plastic that stick together and rotate around a little...how much production cost could that be? I could design him on Shapeway. The reason these people are charging $350 for him is because they are trying to sell nostalgia...and I find it insulting that a company would put out a chitty product with a ridiculous price tag because they assume I am an emotional sucker.


You don't seem to know what you're talking about at all here. Currently Fort Max is $330 on BBTS. That figure includes the markup that BBTS makes their profits on, AND the cost of shipping and importing such a large item in large quantities when they could be making a bigger mark up on tiny items like Revoltech. Then there's the strength of the yen compared to the dollar. Add that to the fact that this is a collectors' item, not a toy, and the amount produced will be far lower accordingly. When a Deluxe class figure sells at Botcon for $50 you should understand how expensive a smaller run is. Don't forget that in Japan living space is at a premium so buying a figure this size will be very daunting for a lot of people; the price reflects that risk. And finally the original Fort Max was produced at a time when petroleum was more plentiful and the toy industry was at its absolute strongest and it still cost $100 in MID-EIGHTIES' money.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby FortMacs » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:12 pm

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Cant say ive ever fealt any kind of peer pressure from anyones posts or collection pics.

for me it usually comes from watching youtube...all the reviews of expensive or hard to find items.

most of the videos make me really want what ever the video was about...then i check ebay and think well i probably wont ge that unless im really lucky.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby datguy86 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:02 pm

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I like this topic. While admittedly all of my collecting is based on the principle of buy it now it won't be there later; I do sometimes feel the need to keep up with the Joneses.

Primarily I collect because it's what I do. But I pull an early trigger on a lot of items due to the PS1 version of Valkyrie Profile. For those who aren't into games, the PS1 version of VP is among the most expensive PS1 US releases evar. It fetches a few hundred dollars. A year after its release I held a copy in my hands for $20 and put it down. I have not been able to find a decent copy for under $100 since (though I haven't looked in quite some time). The same with the Universe line - picking up figures I missed then is now costly. I should have picked them up closer to release.

Third party products make me want to keep up with the Joneses. I see other people enjoying these and would like to join in too, but as a collector of Transformers and video games my hobbies are costly as it is.

Beyond that I limit myself to series. I want all of Prime and the Generations line; both of which are currently in focus. I want the NA released MP figures because they're amazing. And I have plans for Cyberverse so I collect that. This holiday season has seen a lot of Prime and Generations exclusives occur; which is costly. With Encore releases I tend to pick up what I missed out on as a kid - and Fort Max is definitely one of those releases.

So yeah - collect what you want, but sometimes it's best to pull the trigger now than it is later.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Diem » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:09 pm

datguy86 wrote:
So yeah - collect what you want, but sometimes it's best to pull the trigger now than it is later.


This is another concern of mine. This is literally the only time this toy will be available for this low a price again, in a year or two this figure will be at at least the $500-600 mark.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby fenrir72 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:54 am

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Weapon: Plasma Cannon
Been collecting tfs not because of peer pressure. Ever since the pilot episode back in 1985 (when it first aired in my country), I got hooked.

What I get from our peers here about are the massive info dump on trends, what to and what not to do in collecting. Do I envy my peers? Human nature allows for it thus......well, collections like Ryan's is a standard :BOWDOWN: I want to emulate, more like a pipe dream, but hey, we all are allowed to dream no? :lol:

I don't allow peer pressure to go out of hand though. My target figures are finite (that's why I only focus on G1 and a few MPs or something that arouses my fancy :grin: and of course economics.)

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And thanks btw Diem for the fast replies.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Diem » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:10 am

fenrir72 wrote:
What I get from our peers here about are the massive info dump on trends, what to and what not to do in collecting. Do I envy my peers? Human nature allows for it thus......well, collections like Ryan's is a standard :BOWDOWN: I want to emulate, more like a pipe dream, but hey, we all are allowed to dream no? :lol:


Well Ryan managed to make a career out of owning Transformers. Obviously that's a reason to complete work on our voodoo dolls of him but fair go to him for making a success of what he loves.



And thanks btw Diem for the fast replies.


No problem. I hope we can cut a deal in the future.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:11 am

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Diem wrote:The Rebirth is a fantastic story


...


I think I just had a stroke.

I understand you're entitled to your opinion, but I had to say something. Rebirth is so inadequate when it comes to the story of the Headmasters and Targetmasters, especially considering how good the Japanese Headmasters and the comics versions of the story were. If those hadn't existed, maybe Rebirth could pass, but this way? It's kinda sad knowing its wasted potential. I do understand it was made that way because the cartoon was canceled, but then they should have just left it alone and ended it with the Return of Optimus Prime. But, there were toys to be sold, so of course the promotion had to be done. But that's the only purpose I see to "season 4."
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Mykltron » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:46 am

Motto: "If I win again I'm still the champion. If you win HAH! that's just impossible.

Weapon: tea cup."
I'm not feeling the pressure. I salivate over certain things but I take the time to consider whether or not the price is worth it for the play value it'll give me. Fort Max for example takes up way too much space and won't keep me occupied for long so no, I wouldn't buy him for more than £50 and even then I'd think I was paying too much for something I wouldn't really play with.

I feel grateful that I can afford this hobby at all. Yes, I wish I had more money to spend on it but then maybe I wouldn't appreciate the figures I have as much.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:02 am

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
No peer pressure at all. I buy only what I like and what I can afford.

I don't care if, for example, a thousand people tell me they bought Encore Sixshot, and that he's the most awesomest toy ever. To me, he's a brick with six rather forced alt modes, and I won't be buying him.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:01 am

"peer pressure", eh?

I have to admit, sometimes fandom hype makes me want things. Like all the Fort Max hype. I have no room for him, no connection to the character ... but the years if hype kinda makes me want the reissue. This is also true for 3rd party items, I see a bunch of people with PE's Arcee and I kinda want her, despite havign a great Arcee already.

Lucky for me, I can afford what I want with some budgetry. So I don't feel jealous, although I occasionally feeel some regret over passing some things over. Only a little regret, though. I tend to stick to my guns on how I feel about figures, so I just recite the reasons why I didn't buy so-and-so and I feel fine again.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Diem » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:26 am

Rodimus Prime wrote:
Diem wrote:The Rebirth is a fantastic story


...


I think I just had a stroke.

I understand you're entitled to your opinion, but I had to say something. Rebirth is so inadequate when it comes to the story of the Headmasters and Targetmasters, especially considering how good the Japanese Headmasters and the comics versions of the story were. If those hadn't existed, maybe Rebirth could pass, but this way? It's kinda sad knowing its wasted potential. I do understand it was made that way because the cartoon was canceled, but then they should have just left it alone and ended it with the Return of Optimus Prime. But, there were toys to be sold, so of course the promotion had to be done. But that's the only purpose I see to "season 4."


At the risk of going off topic, you'll have to go back and tell my 6-year-old self that it isn't awesome but he won't be able to hear you over watching his scratched VHS copy for the 2000th time.

I do agree that it's a terrible shame that a season had to be condensed into a five-parter, and then into a three-parter. But despite that I would say that the franchise is better off for it existing and that it's a way more satisfying ending than Return Of Optimus Prime.

Sure, with adult hindsight it's easy to see the pacing and animation issues that plagued that three parter but I would still argue that The Rebirth is an excellent story. It has a 3-act structure that is smooth and condensed. Act one: introduce all characters and plot. Act two: the bad guys win, with a giant bloody scorpion and Galvatron takes Cybertron. Act three GIANT GIANT ROBOT BATTLE, happy endings all around, stinger for the future episodes (that sadly never came).

Given the huge number of characters introduced it does a good job of getting a lot of the personalities across with dialog and actions rather than exposition (with the exception of the infamously awkward but undeniably memorable Punch/Counterpunch scene). The script is very sharply written for a cartoon of the period and everyone gets their turn at being awesome. Do you not feel a little shiver of excitement when the 5 new Headmasters step out into the middle of a Decepticon camp, confident they'll win against twice as many foes? When Spike, knowing his son has been kidnapped BUILDS A GIANT FORTRESS ROBOT and personally flies it into Decepticon space, leading an Autobot pacifist to fight off the Horrorcons and Decepticon Targetmasters, before holding his own against a rampaging warlord wh has already captured or defeated all other Autobots? When the Autobots, rallied by the arrival of Prime think they've won, only for a city to literally rise up from the ground and turn into a scorpion? When Snapdragon bites Daniel and throws him to the floor (YAAAAAAAAAAY)?

I'd certainly argue whether or not Rebirth is better than Headmasters. They're both excellent, while suffering from a few plot holes. They're both great examples of epic space opera. And they're both the wrong length (Rebirth is shorter than it should be, Headmasters is longer than it should be). But Rebirth is SOOOOO much better than the Marvel Headmasters mini-series it isn;t even funny. Rebirth is exciting, has a satisfying ending and the reason for the introduction of the Headmaster gimmick was well justified. Marvel Headmasters is slow, dull, and makes no goddamn sense.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby RhA » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:00 am

Motto: "BRING ME DANGER!"
Diem wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:
Diem wrote:The Rebirth is a fantastic story


...


I think I just had a stroke.

I understand you're entitled to your opinion, but I had to say something. Rebirth is so inadequate when it comes to the story of the Headmasters and Targetmasters, especially considering how good the Japanese Headmasters and the comics versions of the story were. If those hadn't existed, maybe Rebirth could pass, but this way? It's kinda sad knowing its wasted potential. I do understand it was made that way because the cartoon was canceled, but then they should have just left it alone and ended it with the Return of Optimus Prime. But, there were toys to be sold, so of course the promotion had to be done. But that's the only purpose I see to "season 4."


At the risk of going off topic, you'll have to go back and tell my 6-year-old self that it isn't awesome but he won't be able to hear you over watching his scratched VHS copy for the 2000th time.

I do agree that it's a terrible shame that a season had to be condensed into a five-parter, and then into a three-parter. But despite that I would say that the franchise is better off for it existing and that it's a way more satisfying ending than Return Of Optimus Prime.

Sure, with adult hindsight it's easy to see the pacing and animation issues that plagued that three parter but I would still argue that The Rebirth is an excellent story. It has a 3-act structure that is smooth and condensed. Act one: introduce all characters and plot. Act two: the bad guys win, with a giant bloody scorpion and Galvatron takes Cybertron. Act three GIANT GIANT ROBOT BATTLE, happy endings all around, stinger for the future episodes (that sadly never came).

Given the huge number of characters introduced it does a good job of getting a lot of the personalities across with dialog and actions rather than exposition (with the exception of the infamously awkward but undeniably memorable Punch/Counterpunch scene). The script is very sharply written for a cartoon of the period and everyone gets their turn at being awesome. Do you not feel a little shiver of excitement when the 5 new Headmasters step out into the middle of a Decepticon camp, confident they'll win against twice as many foes? When Spike, knowing his son has been kidnapped BUILDS A GIANT FORTRESS ROBOT and personally flies it into Decepticon space, leading an Autobot pacifist to fight off the Horrorcons and Decepticon Targetmasters, before holding his own against a rampaging warlord wh has already captured or defeated all other Autobots? When the Autobots, rallied by the arrival of Prime think they've won, only for a city to literally rise up from the ground and turn into a scorpion? When Snapdragon bites Daniel and throws him to the floor (YAAAAAAAAAAY)?

I'd certainly argue whether or not Rebirth is better than Headmasters. They're both excellent, while suffering from a few plot holes. They're both great examples of epic space opera. And they're both the wrong length (Rebirth is shorter than it should be, Headmasters is longer than it should be). But Rebirth is SOOOOO much better than the Marvel Headmasters mini-series it isn;t even funny. Rebirth is exciting, has a satisfying ending and the reason for the introduction of the Headmaster gimmick was well justified. Marvel Headmasters is slow, dull, and makes no goddamn sense.


:lol: Add the HM series from Japan into the mix and we can sadly conclude that being a Headmaster means that you're gonna be A) overhyped and B) do not get to have an awesome story.

Which bring us back to the Fort Max hype- That Mastersword wouldn't have even have dented my interest without that stupid, boring, ill-transated cartoon.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby TulioDude » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:34 pm

Motto: "Never doubt the awesomess."
Weapon: Energo-Sword
I know that feel.
It feels werid sometimes to see people go like"Oh,that was released only on Japan?Oh its simple,I will just import them all at once!"


As for pressure you kinda feel it for some figures,like when i bough Leader Jetfire,i knew it would harder an i would go through nore hassle to get him.


But there is positive side to this like written earlier,it makes you think about what are you buying.
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Re: Peer Pressure

Postby Flux Convoy » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:40 am

Motto: "Chaos... is coming!..."
I pressure me into buying. It's a rare thing when someone changes a decision I've made on a figure. The hobby has certainly gotten more expensive and harder to stay on top of. I do it for my own enjoyment though. As far as singling out Fortress Maximus, I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. I want it, I will manage the money for it and that's that. Yeah, it's pricey. Collecting Transformers has never been nor will it ever be cheap. We all define our own parameters. We choose whether or not to get sucked in by hype.
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