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Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:26 pm**

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Not being American or in America, some references escape me so I hope you can enlighten me.

I don't really understand some of these accusations of political correctness/ incorrectness when there are traits seen in shows of these sort.

Some examples:

1. Skids and Mudflap - the furore due to the gold tooth, the language "e.g. capping yo ass") etc brings up slave past? Would Megatron's/ Starscream's "Come here, boy" also evoke this?

2. Wreckers and Rednecks - I know nothing much about Rednecks beyond the racist stereotypes. But it started confusing me when some toy reviewers mentioned the connection, especially the mullets. Are mullets associated with rednecks exclusively? Because I know of friends who are coloured be they black or Asian, who also wear that style.

3. The Dreads - I thought it was obvious that they were given a Jamaican feel. Does that make it a racist slur? To me I thought they were super cool, especially on the highway...reminded me of some clips of really good Jamaican Parkour practioners I've seen in action: somersaulting, vaulting, handspringing etc with dreads blowing in the air.

When you watch a movie, you'll see good guys, you'll see bad guys. If a bad guy is black, is that racism? And hence translated to the Transformers setting, where certain robots take on certain traits, it becomes a direct attack?

For example, in the Star Wars prequels, the Nemoidians were given Asian accents. Being Asian myself, while I may not have liked the decision, it was a long way towards feeling the film makers were deliberately casting racial slurs. After all why would they think to alienate at least half the paying movie going world?

Even more ridiculous to me have been claims like
- Jet Li as a villain in Lethal Weapon 4 = racist against Chinese
- Cyril Raffaeli in Die Hard 4 = racist against French

Perhaps someone can explain more because it confuses me when these discussions come up. Some seem like total non sequuntur to me.

No, It's no that I think any of it's "Racist" It's the fact that some others do. They think the twins were a racial steriotype. No they were not! I know pelenty of people who talk the same way they do! And they're white, black, hispanic, asian, and others I don't even recognize! It's Ebonic Ghetto talk, An up and coming thing for almost everone in maerica nowadays, but if two giant robots talk all "gangsta" people of a certain color may get offended. No one bitched about jazz! Even barricade is portrayed as "Black" In more than color, and no one points it out.
the twins were just durogatory, and thats what people noticed.

As for the Wreackers, they wernt rednecks, they were Irish, actually. Sure Irish nascars can be connected racially with drinking and all that, but no one will call that, because it's not a purposely made connection. even if it is, so what? I HATE living in a world were your favorite things can be ruined by political correctness.

as for the dreads,

Twitchythe3rd wrote:Jamacian wasn't the first thought when I saw the Dreads. Mine was "holy ****, it's a robot Predator."

That just about sums it up nicely.
as for those weird movements they made on the freeway, that was because it was recycled footage from the movie "The Island", and if you don't beleive me, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7kcqB3thJM

Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:14 pm**

BeastProwl wrote:As for the Wreackers, they wernt rednecks, they were Irish, actually. Sure Irish nascars can be connected racially with drinking and all that, but no one will call that, because it's not a purposely made connection. even if it is, so what? I HATE living in a world were your favorite things can be ruined by political correctness.

Actually, only one of the Wreckers was Irish, One was Scottish, and one was a Cockney (London accent)

Twitchythe3rd wrote:Jamacian wasn't the first thought when I saw the Dreads. Mine was "holy ****, it's a robot Predator."

Same here - i never considered Jamaican until i read it here. I still don't.

Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:51 pm**

i thought the twins were dropped because they were shyte.

i personally didnt like them at all as i found them bloody annoying and took WAY too much screen time up that couldve been used beefing up the other characters.

we learned nothing of sideswipe or arcee and jolt was bearly in it at all

maybe its because im not american either and arent as obsessed with racism like they seem to be.

when i saw the dreads my first thougt wasnt "hey theyre jamacan" it was "someones gonna gets sued ! " for ripping off the predator franchise

Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:30 pm**

BeastProwl wrote:as for those weird movements they made on the freeway, that was because it was recycled footage from the movie "The Island", and if you don't beleive me, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7kcqB3thJM

Holy SH-T!

Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:49 pm**

Bonecrusher27 wrote:
BeastProwl wrote:as for those weird movements they made on the freeway, that was because it was recycled footage from the movie "The Island", and if you don't beleive me, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7kcqB3thJM

Holy SH-T!

But in all fairness to Bay, plenty of directors and producers use recycled footage. It cuts costs, it's usually overlooked by the audience, and in the grand scheme of things, it don't mean jack.

It's a smart fiscal move.

Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:58 pm**

The recycled footage is also due to the original filming of the scene involving the accident of Gabriela Cedillo. Anyways, back on topic... In which I feel that this discussion is getting nowhere. Impress me with intellectualism and not assumptions, and get this topic back on track, thank you.

Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:00 pm**

Autobot032 wrote:
Bonecrusher27 wrote:
BeastProwl wrote:as for those weird movements they made on the freeway, that was because it was recycled footage from the movie "The Island", and if you don't beleive me, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7kcqB3thJM

Holy SH-T!

But in all fairness to Bay, plenty of directors and producers use recycled footage. It cuts costs, it's usually overlooked by the audience, and in the grand scheme of things, it don't mean jack.

It's a smart fiscal move.

Agreed. My amazement was that there would be fans sharp enough to see it, and even take the time to do a splice by splice comparison. (I haven't watched the Island) Youtubers are amazing people!

Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:40 pm**

Autobot032 wrote: The Wreckers won't be looked down upon because they're based on WASP people. (White Anglo-Saxons) If anything, people will applaud the filmmakers for having them in.

First of, i loved the Wreckers. Probabaly my favorite characters in DOTM. I felt there accents were fitting, but am I the only one who thinks they were given the scotish accents so people in no way shape or form could claim they were stereotypical nascar fans?

Autobot032 wrote:Political correctness? In these films? No. Sly made a good point about the Dreads in another thread, and he's onto something. I went to see the film a second time, and during the Mexican Standoff scene, some members of the audience murmured "Whoa, dude's an alien Jamaican!" and other references towards Jamaicans. I got it right away, the first time I saw the film, but I didn't feel it was blatant. After Sly's thread and seeing it a second time, I see it plain as day.

Political Correctness and Bayverse? No. Sorry.

1.- I remember when Sly made the initial coment of waiting for someone to make a racial conection with the dreads because they were black and ran fast. I think it was more a joke than anyhing (BUt with him, you can never be to sure

)

2.- Had he, or the audience memeber made that coment, would you have ever made that conection yourself? And to be fair, i don't see anything derogatory about them anyhow. If anyhing, running faster than Camaro SS and Corvette Stingray is an honor! :lol:

But one thing i can't agree with is Bay being politicly correct. For me, having the twins removed from the movie was a perfect example of this. Wether or not you like/dislike the twins or agree with their behavior, bay and Co. recieved alot of flack. Story wise, it would have made much more sence to include them in some shape or form, but instead, because of a select few, they felt it would just be eaiser to cut them out intirely.

Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:56 pm**

I personally found nothing disrespectful in the second movie as far as the twins go. I won't say the assertions were ridiculous, but I think people read WAY TOO MUCH into that situation. Just like people are with this movie. Jamaican? Wow. Just wow.

Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:28 pm**

Actually, they reminded me more of predator...

Bonecrusher27 wrote:

3. The Dreads - I thought it was obvious that they were given a Jamaican feel. Does that make it a racist slur? To me I thought they were super cool, especially on the highway...reminded me of some clips of really good Jamaican Parkour practioners I've seen in action: somersaulting, vaulting, handspringing etc with dreads blowing in the air.

Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:32 pm**

Prime Riblet wrote:I personally found nothing disrespectful in the second movie as far as the twins go. I won't say the assertions were ridiculous, but I think people read WAY TOO MUCH into that situation. Just like people are with this movie. Jamaican? Wow. Just wow.

Agreed 100%. People will see what they want to see.

Posted: **Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:44 pm**

It was the decent thing to do, not like Lucas, that gave some sense to Jar Jar (someone gullible enough to talk into the senate favouring Palpatine) until the 3rd episode, after being annoying along three movies (note: not because of any racist stereotype, just because he was incredibly annoying )...

BeastProwl wrote:But why remove them?

Posted: **Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:12 am**

5150 Cruiser wrote:
Autobot032 wrote: The Wreckers won't be looked down upon because they're based on WASP people. (White Anglo-Saxons) If anything, people will applaud the filmmakers for having them in.

First of, i loved the Wreckers. Probabaly my favorite characters in DOTM. I felt there accents were fitting, but am I the only one who thinks they were given the scotish accents so people in no way shape or form could claim they were stereotypical nascar fans?

Oh, so did I. And I wonder about the accents too. I mean, everything but the voices were there. It was almost too perfect...

5150 Cruiser wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:Political correctness? In these films? No. Sly made a good point about the Dreads in another thread, and he's onto something. I went to see the film a second time, and during the Mexican Standoff scene, some members of the audience murmured "Whoa, dude's an alien Jamaican!" and other references towards Jamaicans. I got it right away, the first time I saw the film, but I didn't feel it was blatant. After Sly's thread and seeing it a second time, I see it plain as day.

Political Correctness and Bayverse? No. Sorry.

1.- I remember when Sly made the initial coment of waiting for someone to make a racial conection with the dreads because they were black and ran fast. I think it was more a joke than anyhing (BUt with him, you can never be to sure )

2.- Had he, or the audience memeber made that coment, would you have ever made that conection yourself? And to be fair, i don't see anything derogatory about them anyhow. If anyhing, running faster than Camaro SS and Corvette Stingray is an honor!

But one thing i can't agree with is Bay being politicly correct. For me, having the twins removed from the movie was a perfect example of this. Wether or not you like/dislike the twins or agree with their behavior, bay and Co. recieved alot of flack. Story wise, it would have made much more sence to include them in some shape or form, but instead, because of a select few, they felt it would just be eaiser to cut them out intirely.

1.) Sly? No, you can never be too sure.

2.) Making the connection... Yeah. Sadly. Crankcase reminded me of one of the vampires from the Twilight saga. (You see him in the previews) Red eyes and everything. Hmm...was Bay trying to make one of them instead? Dang it. Now that's gonna rattle around in my head.

3.) Bay? Political Correctness? I dare say nay. Bay laughs in the face of PC. I commend him for it. I'm a little tired of the whole PC thing. The labels allow you to say the worst possible thing in the nicest way. I'd much rather people quit pulling their punches and let it all out.

Posted: **Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:12 am**

Autobot032 wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:
Autobot032 wrote: The Wreckers won't be looked down upon because they're based on WASP people. (White Anglo-Saxons) If anything, people will applaud the filmmakers for having them in.

First of, i loved the Wreckers. Probabaly my favorite characters in DOTM. I felt there accents were fitting, but am I the only one who thinks they were given the scotish accents so people in no way shape or form could claim they were stereotypical nascar fans?

Oh, so did I. And I wonder about the accents too. I mean, everything but the voices were there. It was almost too perfect...

5150 Cruiser wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:Political correctness? In these films? No. Sly made a good point about the Dreads in another thread, and he's onto something. I went to see the film a second time, and during the Mexican Standoff scene, some members of the audience murmured "Whoa, dude's an alien Jamaican!" and other references towards Jamaicans. I got it right away, the first time I saw the film, but I didn't feel it was blatant. After Sly's thread and seeing it a second time, I see it plain as day.

Political Correctness and Bayverse? No. Sorry.

1.- I remember when Sly made the initial coment of waiting for someone to make a racial conection with the dreads because they were black and ran fast. I think it was more a joke than anyhing (BUt with him, you can never be to sure )

2.- Had he, or the audience memeber made that coment, would you have ever made that conection yourself? And to be fair, i don't see anything derogatory about them anyhow. If anyhing, running faster than Camaro SS and Corvette Stingray is an honor!

But one thing i can't agree with is Bay being politicly correct. For me, having the twins removed from the movie was a perfect example of this. Wether or not you like/dislike the twins or agree with their behavior, bay and Co. recieved alot of flack. Story wise, it would have made much more sence to include them in some shape or form, but instead, because of a select few, they felt it would just be eaiser to cut them out intirely.

1.) Sly? No, you can never be too sure.

2.) Making the connection... Yeah. Sadly. Crankcase reminded me of one of the vampires from the Twilight saga. (You see him in the previews) Red eyes and everything. Hmm...was Bay trying to make one of them instead? Dang it. Now that's gonna rattle around in my head.

3.) Bay? Political Correctness? I dare say nay. Bay laughs in the face of PC. I commend him for it. I'm a little tired of the whole PC thing. The labels allow you to say the worst possible thing in the nicest way. I'd much rather people quit pulling their punches and let it all out.

EXACTLY! Who cares? If there was SOME way to go back in time and bring the twins back, I would. Political Correctness, though, like you said, Isn't exactly an exercise for Bay, did, In my honest Opinion, get the twins kicked off stage.

Posted: **Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:42 pm**

delighted twins were kicked off the movie

a victory for political correctness

Posted: **Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:40 pm**

shamone wrote:delighted twins were kicked off the movie

a victory for political correctness

And a lose for continuity.

Posted: **Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:34 pm**

5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote:delighted twins were kicked off the movie

a victory for political correctness

And a lose for continuity.

im sorry bu there is only response to that

:lol:

Posted: **Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:06 pm**

shamone wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote:delighted twins were kicked off the movie

a victory for political correctness

And a lose for continuity.

im sorry bu there is only response to that

You're not sorry. Stop it. You're an instigator and you know it.

You have no right to mock his opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but he's entitled to it without having to be treated in this manner.

Posted: **Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:29 pm**

shamone wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote:delighted twins were kicked off the movie

a victory for political correctness

And a lose for continuity.

im sorry bu there is only response to that

You complain about people being condencending and disrespectfull and this is your response. Right dude.

Now what i find funny is by your response your basicly saying there is a continumity problem in the movies, constantly bring the movies down for it, yet you support it (continuity) by removing the twins intirely.

Guess its ok as long as its to your benifit.

Autobot032 wrote: You're not sorry. Stop it. You're an instigator and you know it.

You have no right to mock his opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but he's entitled to it without having to be treated in this manner.

Thanks.

What gets me is if you don't like the Twins why wouldn't you want to see them get killed? In the book didn't take the hits for Bumble Bee and the other Autobots? (Minus Ironhide of course) At least it would have been an honorable death

Posted: **Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:15 pm**

5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote:delighted twins were kicked off the movie

a victory for political correctness

And a lose for continuity.

im sorry bu there is only response to that

You complain about people being condencending and disrespectfull and this is your response. Right dude.

Now what i find funny is by your response your basicly saying there is a continumity problem in the movies, constantly bring the movies down for it, yet you support it (continuity) by removing the twins intirely.

Guess its ok as long as its to your benifit.

Autobot032 wrote: You're not sorry. Stop it. You're an instigator and you know it.

You have no right to mock his opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but he's entitled to it without having to be treated in this manner.

Thanks.

What gets me is if you don't like the Twins why wouldn't you want to see them get killed? In the book didn't take the hits for Bumble Bee and the other Autobots? (Minus Ironhide of course) At least it would have been an honorable death

Too true. I can't remember which twin died first, but one of them jumped in the path of the blast to save Bumblebee. The other, enraged by this, tackles Sentinel, gets a few good whacks in before, during and after being shot with the barrel in his mouth. He crumbles and Sentinel brushes him away like nothing had happened and continues his rampage.

People hated the twins so much, they didn't want them to have a hero's redemption. They wanted them gone, no matter the cost. Their hatred is out of control.

Posted: **Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:44 am**

Its a shame they were removed, because what happens in the novel would of been a perfect redemption for them both.

Posted: **Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:34 am**

If people had problems with the Twins before, painting them black and killing them off probably wouldn't come across as "redemption."

Posted: **Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:31 am**

I've never minded the Twins. I guess I see them more as part of a much broader stereotype than some people do--they're just Two Stupid Guys to me. Bill and Ted, Beavis and Butthead, the nontalking Darryl brothers from the Newhart show (the third brother was relatively 'bright' by comparison), the two twits from the Dumb And Dumber movies, hell, even Cheech and Chong, if you want to go back that far...all examples of Two Stupid Guys and their relationships to one another or their specific racial types or even their species don't much matter. Two Stupid Guys should not be confused with Two Dumb Gals or The Idiot Couple or the more solitary, case-by-case Bimbo and Bozo stereotypes.

Stupidity doesn't necessarily negate courage either. Chalk me up as another person who would've enjoyed watching the Twins go out in a dissolve of glory fighting Sentinel Prime.

Posted: **Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:41 pm**

I think it would've been good to show their deaths to show how evil and dangerous Sentinel is.

Noideaforaname wrote:If people had problems with the Twins before, painting them black and killing them off probably wouldn't come across as "redemption."

If they died heroically enough, that could "redeem" them in some people's eyes.

Posted: **Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:47 pm**

Optimus1138 wrote:I think it would've been good to show their deaths to show how evil and dangerous Sentinel is.

Noideaforaname wrote:If people had problems with the Twins before, painting them black and killing them off probably wouldn't come across as "redemption."

If they died heroically enough, that could "redeem" them in some people's eyes.

It would have in mine, especially if they got the audience to bond with them alittle first! they would be warriors by this point in time,and if it was anything like Q's death, then I would have cried, probably.

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