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Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

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Re: AZ's Pred vs Maxi Tournie Idea! Need help/suggestions/writer

Postby Kaijubot » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:29 pm

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Absolute Zero wrote:
Tammuz wrote:Sumo, though i'm not really sure about starlock.


I picked him for lack of another option.

Another planet the beasties could come from is Jungle Planet.


Ah, yes, good ol' Animatros.

Incidentally, why would the Maximals and Predacons (as factions) come from anywhere but Cybertron? If the new, more fuel effecient bodies were smaller than the previous ones it would make sense that they might adopt alt modes better suited to the size.
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Re: AZ's Pred vs Maxi Tournie Idea! Need help/suggestions/writer

Postby Psychout » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:30 pm

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The idea of the article I wrote was in the vein of the beast wars factions evolving whilst the ancients were all shut down.
Bearing in mind that the G1's would have brought the knowledge of earth based animals and such back with them it would have been stored in Cybertrons databanks until reactivated then, using the asteroid was the catalyst like Mt. St. Hilary erupting in the G1 cartoon, the databanks 'woke up' and reformatted everything using organics.
If that helps, feel free to use it...


My suggestion to AZ was to run the tourney between you guys to start, then involve the cross-gen missions using the G1's as 'war drones', and then when the matrix is 'redescovered' the ancients can wake up and get back to trashing the planet.

As a sidenote though; Writing a story involviong fan-made characters can be fun, but everyone has their own nuances as to how their characters should act, which is why I stayed away from it as much as possible and stuck to canons. For the article, I started with a ramble 3 pages long involving loads of different ones and just edited the hell out of it, kinda like this post... :lol:
DISCLAIMER: The above post clearly was meant to offend, and if you feel insulted by it, please use the 'close browser' button and discuss it with someone who knows not to take the internet seriously.
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Re: AZ's Pred vs Maxi Tournie Idea! Need help/suggestions/writer

Postby Absolute Zero » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:44 pm

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Crapy Story wrote:The ship breaks out of hyperspace. Fires burning where the engines should be. Scorch marks and holes cover the ship, the most heavy damage coming in the rear.

"We've lost main thrust and rear weapons. Sensors and nav as well." the robotic form at the helm reports.

"Use manuevering jets. Try to get us broadside for when they come out, then open with everything we've got." The captain responds.

The ship slowly begins to turn, but not fast enough as the second ship erupts into real space behind it and begins opening fire. The first ship beings to blindly return fire, mildly raking the second ship, but causing no serious damage, as the second crosses above the first ship.

More fireballs explode out of the first ship as it seems that at any moment, it might ultimately explode. Ultimately, a worse fate awaits it, as it begins falling into the metal planet below's gravity well.

The second ship follows behind, firing constantly. Not willing to simply assume that the planet will finish their job.

"Jettison all stasis pods. Arm forward facing missiles and eject them. If they're going to follow us down, lets make sure they die as well." The captain orders.

The second ship following behind doesn't slow, doesn't cease firing. Some of the stasis pods are blasted, others collide with the ship and are sent spiraling away. The missiles do their job and cripple the second ship, causing it to not be able to contol itself in the gravity well either.

Both ships begin their descent into the metallic world. The first crashing through what once was a spire amid a great city. The second slamming into the ground further away.

From orbit, the surviving stasis pods begin their decent down to the planet. Warriors inside ready to begin their war again on a new planet.


Meh. It sounded better in my head lastnight at 2 AM...
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Re: AZ's Pred vs Maxi Tournie Idea! Need help/suggestions/writer

Postby Absolute Zero » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:48 pm

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Kaijubot wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:
Tammuz wrote:Sumo, though i'm not really sure about starlock.


I picked him for lack of another option.

Another planet the beasties could come from is Jungle Planet.


Ah, yes, good ol' Animatros.

Incidentally, why would the Maximals and Predacons (as factions) come from anywhere but Cybertron? If the new, more fuel effecient bodies were smaller than the previous ones it would make sense that they might adopt alt modes better suited to the size.


My thinking was that because the beast factions where added before the restart, that they could be returning.

*edit* It's also not without presciedence. I know I spelled that wrong, but what I mean is it's happened before. There are other planets shown in some of the series having transformers, or atleast mechanical people on them. Granted, several where colonies that had left Cybertron before. Which was kinda my idea. The beast factions had left cybertron, evolved, and came back.

Psychout wrote:The idea of the article I wrote was in the vein of the beast wars factions evolving whilst the ancients were all shut down.
Bearing in mind that the G1's would have brought the knowledge of earth based animals and such back with them it would have been stored in Cybertrons databanks until reactivated then, using the asteroid was the catalyst like Mt. St. Hilary erupting in the G1 cartoon, the databanks 'woke up' and reformatted everything using organics.
If that helps, feel free to use it...


My suggestion to AZ was to run the tourney between you guys to start, then involve the cross-gen missions using the G1's as 'war drones', and then when the matrix is 'redescovered' the ancients can wake up and get back to trashing the planet.

As a sidenote though; Writing a story involviong fan-made characters can be fun, but everyone has their own nuances as to how their characters should act, which is why I stayed away from it as much as possible and stuck to canons. For the article, I started with a ramble 3 pages long involving loads of different ones and just edited the hell out of it, kinda like this post... :lol:


*edit 2* I'm not against it, I'd just wanted to try to reconcile pre-reset with the current game. I didn't want to ignore the time I'd spent as a Pred before the reset. But part of the reason I wanted as many people in on this who wanted to contribute, regardless of faction, is I don't want it to be my tourne. I want it to be HMW's tourney. I could probably have slapped some crap together and served it up by now on my own in all honesty. But that would defeat the purpose of running a tourne. It's about the community. And I don't particularly want to just do it on my own.

The main reason I went back and put up the original concepts and stuff was because maybe someone else will have a idea on how to make that work.

*edit 3* I really should have just quoted all this stuff at once...

Wingspan wrote:Now, last contribution for the moment - my preference would be the asteroid / meteor sparking something on Seibertron itself which begins the beast creation rather than either generation returning; the introduction of organic material on a world that's had time to heal from the G1 conflict which sparks the new creations. But that's primarily because I'm having difficulty imaging where either generation would return from; give me that and my opinion can easily be swayed.

Edit: On reading AZ's team I realize he deserve a nut-kicking for stating he cannot write and the meteor / asteroid bringing something would be interesting as, for those stories to hold, it would have to bring something human.


A asteroid/meteor falling on a world with no current life would need something more then a microbe I'd think. But I dunno.

Holy crap! Someone read my characters? I stand by my statement however. The characters I've posted have existed for at least 4 years now, and mostly evolved through RPing, though I've been off and on working on their world. Mostly off because my girlfriend (a way better writer then me) wont contribute like she said she would. My backstories don't need the meteor however, cause they had their souls ripped out of their bodies and became sparks for protoforms.
Last edited by Absolute Zero on Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: AZ's Pred vs Maxi Tournie Idea! Need help/suggestions/writer

Postby Kaijubot » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:07 pm

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Absolute Zero wrote:My thinking was that because the beast factions where added before the restart, that they could be returning.


Could be that the the pre-restart Beasties were the prototypes/test subjects of the process. Instead of the Beast factions returning, perhaps some kind of massive disaster made many more decide to undergo the "Maximal/ Predacon Upgrade" as warfare breaks out once more?

Not trying to disuade you if you prefer the idea of the Beasts returning, it just seems a bit odd to me is all.
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Re: AZ's Pred vs Maxi Tournie Idea! Need help/suggestions/writer

Postby Absolute Zero » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:31 pm

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Kaijubot wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:My thinking was that because the beast factions where added before the restart, that they could be returning.


Could be that the the pre-restart Beasties were the prototypes/test subjects of the process. Instead of the Beast factions returning, perhaps some kind of massive disaster made many more decide to undergo the "Maximal/ Predacon Upgrade" as warfare breaks out once more?

Not trying to disuade you if you prefer the idea of the Beasts returning, it just seems a bit odd to me is all.


I prefer it, but that doesn't mean that it's what has to be.

Oh! Idea! What if Psychout's meteor contained nanobots? It solves the problem of microbes reformmating transformers, and it directly connects to his story. The nanobots could have begun reformatting fallen warriors into beasties, and nanomachines can replicate or imitate organic flesh, depending on the source you reference, and protoforms, from what I read online (yah, real reliable I know) have a lot of nanobots in them. They build the body ontop of a base frame.
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Tournament Narrative

Postby Wingspan » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:50 pm

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General Replies

Where can I read backstory on the different histories in the various Beast timelines? Wikipedia told me that Gaea is a future earth - is this true?

AZ, I second your opinion that this should be HMW's tourney; the grand DB crash of doom deserves something magnanimous to establish the new story we all share.

I'm wanting to start the Max/Pred conflict a little differently though - I'd like them to crash in a state of peace or truce and have the influence of Seibertron lead to conflict. I'd also like to weave in their discovery of the G1ers history (and why they are all frozen) into the tournament.

*Aside* Tammuz's story is rather in-depth and could be a curious inclusion. I understand the 12 characters to be split-off-sparks but the persona of Tammuz is former human. So, would Tammuz be frozen as well? Could Tammuz be the one exception? Would be an interesting hook to get the G1ers woken up when the beasts find the Matrix - if collaboration is granted.

We still need to finalize how we want the Beasts to be revitalized on seibs (nanos, other evolution from another planet, future earth where the Bots/Cons performed a grand reset...) but here's a general outline to how we can write this history.

Proposed Narrative

Part 0 - Idle Peace
I'm thinking we run a narrative that's told beginning at the moment of the Matrix waking up the G1ers and bring the moments of time up to that through dialogue of characters and flashback. The first sentence could simply be "One bad shot" and the whole tourney builds to who fired that bad shot.

"You slaggin' fools! We had resolved this nonsense on Gaea and your power hungry.."
*explosion*
"Stow it fuzzball - we were not going to be subjects again; common enemies create new opportunities now. Until we trash these resurrected zombie relics lets hold on past differences."

Enter flashback to tell story of crash, introduction to Seibs, and a time of harmony. This would also tell of the discovery of the G1 stasis locked bodies and how both sides gathered them as a joint cleanup - this could be the catalysts for the initial peace. All this is a neutral setup to drive character inclusion in remaining segments based on tournament success.

Part 1 - War Resurrection
Let's re-use the Beast Wars (Cartoon) common ground that the Predacons are unsatisfied with being controlled subjects and that it's been so long no good history accurately records why the Fuzzies have dominance over Squishes. Conflict starts simply over territory - Preds want to have a designated area (e.g. state, country), Maxs decline, Preds establish anyway, Maxs start to push - then bang.

First part of the tournament would determine which Maxs push and which Preds push back.

Part 2 - History Revealed
Time (2-3 months) has passed. Top player of winning faction for second part (note: I did ask for some periods between collecting missions; these parts are generic and just indicate that tournament happens then results dictate story) were involved in a heavy conflict (need links for their sole-survivor / nearly lost missions to incorporate other characters) and damaged. In retreating from the field they venture for cover and, in accessing data banks to setup some security while repairs are done, some history is uncovered (the fall of Prime and Megatron, the leaderless factions, and the planet wide stasis).

We could then have this told as the winning team bringing the news back to the faction along with a proposal to search out revealed areas; in one of these areas the Matrix is discovered. (Describing the depth and destruction internal to Seibertron will be a challenge but worth it - as well as the remains of the former G1 leaders). (note: I know this isn't the Matrix on Day 1 but Day 2, but it sets up better I think)

Part 3 through X - Charred Metal
Recounting conflict in segments following each tournament part - by this point contributing teams will stand out and their characters (if they provide backgrounds / participate) can drive content. If not, then we'll apply their progress to chosen canon characters which best represent how things have progressed. (To Psychout, the Midget Mod, thanks for that point; writing this to our characters will only work with larger participation)

The matrix will begin to change hands - the first time it does let's write it as the attempt to use it as a weapon (based on the data bank review mentioned previously). Then it's fighting over to try and claim it (which leads to the "One Shot" which restarts the G1ers).

During this, we can arbitrarily choose to include the G1 missions as possibly counting as the two sides enable the fallen bodies as "drones"; since the Beasts will not have any ties to either side, every mission could count. However - we do not HAVE to include the G1 missions, it's an option. Doing so will mean writing in the re-animation and controlling of the drone bodies - any volunteer Mad Scientists on either side? If a consistent losing side can be identified, we can choose them to be the initiator (out of desperation) or it could be the current matrix holder (as a reward for holding the matrix). (reminder: Only the Beasts are competing, this is more so to let a broader mission pool be selectable for entry.)

Quantity of segments is determined by how long we run the tournament.

Part X+1 - One Fated Shot
We somehow determine who gets to be the hero / moron / fated fool who activates the Matrix and re-grants life to the G1ers, breaking their drone state. Narrative picks up from the moment it first began with the bickering Max/Pred and the last segment of the tournament (where we'll do something special to include more missions and the G1 missions) will be a big blowout with massive repercussions.

Edit: We could have the One Fated Shot be the last story we write, but have another tournament segment that follows with no additional story. It will let the story close at a good climax and then let the tournament missions have their own good conclusion.

Edit 2: As this can be broken down into segments, this opens up the possibility for contribution to a much broader group - not just AZ or I - making this truly a HMW event.
Last edited by Wingspan on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Proposed Tournament Scoring and Rules

Postby Wingspan » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:06 pm

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Proposed Tournament Scoring and Rules

I'm separating this conversation from the story conversation; even though the two are tied together I want to get dialogue on the two separately and we'll merge them together as needed.

Tournament Segments
To write an evolving narrative we'll need some time between segments. I recommend a 1 day on, 2 day off plan, like this...
-- Day 1 - Mission range selected, fighting and collection of missions occurs.
-- Day 2 - Collection and determining of current standings, writing of story drafts
-- Day 3 - Publishing of new story segments, publishing of next mission range
-- Lather, rinse, repeat until tournament completion.

This will also, since it's more a faction not personal tournament, let the respective groups collaborate, re-strategize, and prepare for the next wave. As the proposed story will span months it would make the tournament results more align (assuming collaboration occurs).

Tournament Scoring
As the mission generation for Max / Pred is buggered (in the sense that we're not guaranteed to get Max / Pred missions consistently) we can't just say "count all missions ending in 0 and 5"; Bots and Cons have such a higher quantity of missions (because of higher quantity players) it's not an issue for them.

Therefore I recommend that each participating player may submit one mission for each character during each tournament segment. If we want to compensate for those with less than 12 character teams, we can say a max of 10 missions per player. This seems like an appropriate balancing for the missions and lets more members participate (as you're fighting for one good mission, not a dozen). Each mission would be totaled for each character, and multiple players can submit the same mission and the total be counted for each.

Now I don't know how we'll balance if more of one faction joins (and therefore has more missions to submit) - suggestions?

Tournament Points
I know I'm repeating, but I recommend we use point scoring and we consider the Matrix as an adjustment to how points are scored. Originally posted here, I recommend the following.

Recommend Points wrote:Summed for each submitted mission, points can be scored as follows.

-- 1pt per kill
-- 3pt per participating character kill
-- 5pt per matrix holder character kill
-- Matrix holder team gets a +1pt bonus for each kill (to balance threat)
-- 2pt sole survivor
-- 2pt top of mission
-- 2pt bonus for 3+ kills (in 6 slot mission)
-- 5pt bonus for all kills (in 6 slot mission)


Clarifications - participating character means a Transformer belonging to a player who is actually competing; not all players will compete. Matrix holder means the player with the matrix - their whole team gives more points to the opponent and the whole team scores more points. Lastly, these points do not account for killing G1ers if we enable drone missions.

Tournament Win
Total points? Faction that won the most segments (e.g. games)? Weight both (e.g. segments count and max points wins 2 additional segments)? I'm open here.
Last edited by Wingspan on Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AZ's Pred vs Maxi Tournie Idea! Need help/suggestions/writer

Postby Absolute Zero » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:19 pm

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That's pretty awesome Wingspan.
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Re: AZ's Pred vs Maxi Tournie Idea! Need help/suggestions/writer

Postby Wingspan » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:26 pm

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Absolute Zero wrote:That's pretty awesome Wingspan.

Where's mah cookie? :)
Omnis enim, qui mala agit, odit lucem et non venit ad lucem, ut non arguantur opera eius; qui autem facit veritatem, venit ad lucem, ut manifestentur eius opera, quia in Deo sunt facta. Translation

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Re: AZ's Pred vs Maxi Tournie Idea! Need help/suggestions/writer

Postby Absolute Zero » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:37 pm

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Wingspan wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:That's pretty awesome Wingspan.

Where's mah cookie? :)


;_; the autobots beat me up and stole all mah cookies. Ah just bake'em too. Dere was hundreds of'em.
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Hunt the Renegades: Winner

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Re: AZ's Pred vs Maxi Tournie Idea! Need help/suggestions/writer

Postby Absolute Zero » Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:53 pm

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I went and tracked down Psychout's story, quoted it into the first post. I had said I had wanted to work off of that, then admittedly ran off on another tangent as ideas came to me. It's a good story and starting point. Also quoted Wingspan's outlines. Also good stuff.
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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Wingspan » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:27 pm

Motto: "Death is not the end."
Nice.
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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Redimus GTS » Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:44 pm

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Sorry I've had a long day and really cant be arsed ot read through the whole thread. Do we have any kinda date for this yet?
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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Wingspan » Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:53 pm

Motto: "Death is not the end."
Most definitely!! .... No, sorry, we don't.

a) Fuzz participation is unknown.
b) Bounty hunter should take priority - it was queued first.

So read the thread you blithy fool! You have time. ;;)
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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Redimus GTS » Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:14 pm

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But I is teh lazys
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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Absolute Zero » Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:30 am

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Fearless Echoes wrote:But I is teh lazys


Which is why I put most of the important stuff in the first post. I think the only thing I didn't add was what Wingspan wrote for rules, but those seemed pretty standard for tournies.
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You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
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Because the quitter never wins

SPL Round 1: Second Place
Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
Hunt the Renegades: Winner

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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Absolute Zero » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:09 pm

Weapon: Viper Pistol
Couple of thoughts I had.

Any mission with at least 4 combatants for each side should count. This way there will be a broader cross section of missions.

Anyone who levels down for the tournament will be DQed and any match they enter that would have qualified will be forfeit.

Instead of breaking it into literal days, 4 weeks. Week 1 will be "day one" week 2 "day too" and so forth. Saturday and Sunday can be used prepping the next chapter of the story.
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Warrior's Code wrote:You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins

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Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Wingspan » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:28 pm

Motto: "Death is not the end."
Absolute Zero wrote:Couple of thoughts I had.

Any mission with at least 4 combatants for each side should count. This way there will be a broader cross section of missions.

Good idea; but do we count all missions?

Absolute Zero wrote:Anyone who levels down for the tournament will be DQed and any match they enter that would have qualified will be forfeit.

Completely agreed; how do we track? But leveling down won't help - the point system I suggested is based on kills, not level.

Absolute Zero wrote:Instead of breaking it into literal days, 4 weeks. Week 1 will be "day one" week 2 "day too" and so forth. Saturday and Sunday can be used prepping the next chapter of the story.

That's a lot to break down in two days - and I frankly will have more time during the week; however I like having the segments translate directly to game time. Very clean.
Omnis enim, qui mala agit, odit lucem et non venit ad lucem, ut non arguantur opera eius; qui autem facit veritatem, venit ad lucem, ut manifestentur eius opera, quia in Deo sunt facta. Translation

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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Absolute Zero » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:17 pm

Weapon: Viper Pistol
Wingspan wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:Couple of thoughts I had.

Any mission with at least 4 combatants for each side should count. This way there will be a broader cross section of missions.

Good idea; but do we count all missions?


Not unless you know a way to automate it.

Wingspan wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:Anyone who levels down for the tournament will be DQed and any match they enter that would have qualified will be forfeit.

Completely agreed; how do we track? But leveling down won't help - the point system I suggested is based on kills, not level.


Leveling down makes you more deadly. You can build a pretty amped up level 1 for about 150k.

Wingspan wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:Instead of breaking it into literal days, 4 weeks. Week 1 will be "day one" week 2 "day too" and so forth. Saturday and Sunday can be used prepping the next chapter of the story.

That's a lot to break down in two days - and I frankly will have more time during the week; however I like having the segments translate directly to game time. Very clean.


After talking to Tammuz, if we do it like that, then we need to run it over the weekend to give the weekenders a chance to participate.

Most of the data will be/should be compiled daily, it's just the writing that'd need to be done. I don't think every battle will have to be translated into the story, if that's what you're worried about.
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Warrior's Code wrote:You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins

SPL Round 1: Second Place
Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
Hunt the Renegades: Winner

Dead in One-XBLive
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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Mogwai Prime » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:39 pm

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AZ I made this for you to put in the sig bar of whoever helps you run the tourney. All you have to do is let me know the dates and I will add it to the sig. If you want any changes let me know :)

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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Loki God Of Mischief » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:09 pm

That design looks really good, but I think it would look better if you included the faction symbols to the side of the faction names. In the unused negative space. I could be wrong though, but my instincts say it would look good.
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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Absolute Zero » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:48 pm

Weapon: Viper Pistol
I think next to the names might be a good place to have the start and end dates for the tournament.

*edit*

As for the dates... unless there's some complaints since it would be starting pretty soon after Tammuz's scalphunt ends, Jan 17 - Feb 11th.
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Sig by Dragonslayer

Warrior's Code wrote:You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins

SPL Round 1: Second Place
Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
Hunt the Renegades: Winner

Dead in One-XBLive
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Absolute Zero
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Posts: 5109
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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Mogwai Prime » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:07 am

Motto: "Live Free or Die!!!"
Weapon: Radar-Targeting Electron Assault Rifle
Absolute Zero wrote:I think next to the names might be a good place to have the start and end dates for the tournament.

*edit*

As for the dates... unless there's some complaints since it would be starting pretty soon after Tammuz's scalphunt ends, Jan 17 - Feb 11th.


How about this ... put the symbols in too:

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Re: Pred vs Maxi Tournament Working thread, 1st post updated

Postby Tammuz » Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:15 am

is that how you spell Predacons?
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