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The pic with this next to MP Prime is a mock up. Bumblebee has a shadow, Optimus doesn't.

Rated X wrote:

xyl360 wrote:I may have bought this if they did it as a modern Beetle/Bug. That would fit in much better with a Classics collection than this old thing.

I gotta disagree. This is perfect for a classics collection. A lot of people are blinded by the theory behind the so called "classics" line. The alt modes were not modernized to give G1 a modern twist as many speculate. They were modernized to avoid paying licensing fees to various car and airplane companies. And of course Perceptor and Soundwave's alt modes were changed to be more fun for kids to play with. On a side note, the modern VW Beetle is a chick's ride. But the original VW Bug is very popular among hot rod enthusiasts and surfers.

Really? What about Kup? What about Optimus? Why was Prime's Voyager a completely different truck than G1 when his Deluxe figure was not?

Either way, basically ALL of the classics figures got a modern alt mode update, meaning this one does not fit in with the others.

Plenty of people like the VW Beetle/Bug, sure, I'm not arguing that they don't. I'm stating the FACT that it would not fit well with MY Classics collection, period, regardless of what Has/Tak has done with the other characters' alt modes or why they've done so.

xyl360 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

xyl360 wrote:I may have bought this if they did it as a modern Beetle/Bug. That would fit in much better with a Classics collection than this old thing.

I gotta disagree. This is perfect for a classics collection. A lot of people are blinded by the theory behind the so called "classics" line. The alt modes were not modernized to give G1 a modern twist as many speculate. They were modernized to avoid paying licensing fees to various car and airplane companies. And of course Perceptor and Soundwave's alt modes were changed to be more fun for kids to play with. On a side note, the modern VW Beetle is a chick's ride. But the original VW Bug is very popular among hot rod enthusiasts and surfers.

Really? What about Kup? What about Optimus? Why was Prime's Voyager a completely different truck than G1 when his Deluxe figure was not?

Either way, basically ALL of the classics figures got a modern alt mode update, meaning this one does not fit in with the others.

Plenty of people like the VW Beetle/Bug, sure, I'm not arguing that they don't. I'm stating the FACT that it would not fit well with MY Classics collection, period, regardless of what Has/Tak has done with the other characters' alt modes or why they've done so.

Testify!!! I know the more recent production VW Beetle is very female orientated, but the brand new (not even sure if it's on sale yet) Beetle would definitely work. It looks pretty badass actually.

well. the Classics Bee I have is fine. I'm really trying to get as many Minibots as I can in the Legends scale, and the BB I have in that size isn't completely terrible either. Don't really need this (might pick it up with a Goldbug paint job and head) but it's still something I'm far more likely to buy than any of the BumbleBay Hasbro toys clogging shelves.

xyl360 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

xyl360 wrote:I may have bought this if they did it as a modern Beetle/Bug. That would fit in much better with a Classics collection than this old thing.

I gotta disagree. This is perfect for a classics collection. A lot of people are blinded by the theory behind the so called "classics" line. The alt modes were not modernized to give G1 a modern twist as many speculate. They were modernized to avoid paying licensing fees to various car and airplane companies. And of course Perceptor and Soundwave's alt modes were changed to be more fun for kids to play with. On a side note, the modern VW Beetle is a chick's ride. But the original VW Bug is very popular among hot rod enthusiasts and surfers.

Really? What about Kup? What about Optimus? Why was Prime's Voyager a completely different truck than G1 when his Deluxe figure was not?

Either way, basically ALL of the classics figures got a modern alt mode update, meaning this one does not fit in with the others.

Plenty of people like the VW Beetle/Bug, sure, I'm not arguing that they don't. I'm stating the FACT that it would not fit well with MY Classics collection, period, regardless of what Has/Tak has done with the other characters' alt modes or why they've done so.

Well the deluxe Prime is G1, but The truck mode is sacrificed, to make the robot mode look so cool. I think the odd angles on the truck due to it’s transformation were enough to avoid paying a licensing fee. That is just my opinion. The voyager version was completely different so people buy both. Also, that’s just my opinion. As far as Kup and Blurr, I think Hasbro took a gamble that young kids would enjoy earth vehicles more than Cybertronian vehicle modes. That is unless those Cybertronian vehicle modes are being featured in a video game like WFC, which Kup and Blurr were not.

Hot Rod (Rodimus) on the other hand is a perfect example of how they didn’t bother to modernize the alt mode because the car doesn’t exist, thus no licensing fee is required. They could have made him a “not” Ferrari or “not” Maserati, but my guess is Hot Rod’s alt mode was just too iconic to mess with. The Prowl/Bluestreak/Smokescreen alt mode was almost 100% G1. They barely changed it up, just enough to avoid paying a licensing fee to Datsun/Nissan. The Starscream mold also has only minor differences to a real F-15 Strike Eagle. And the Ravage that came with Hound turned into a cassette, even though they never made a classics Soundwave that holds cassettes.

So yes, in my opinion I think the whole “neo” theory about the classics line is just a myth. I believe if Hasbro didn’t have to pay licensing fees, almost all classics figures would feature the original real life vehicles used in G1. I don’t know for sure, but I believe in 1984-85 the licensing fees were either a whole lot cheaper, or maybe Hasbro/Takara were exploiting legal loopholes that have since been closed. I always found it funny that most post 1986 movie figures featured Cybertronian alt modes or extremely futuristic earth modes. I’m not buying into the whole “It is the year 2005” crap. I think Hasbro/Takara got hit with a lawsuit from some car company and decided to stop using real cars. Maybe that’s why Encore hasn’t released everything pre 1986 by now. Once again, just my opinion. It does make sense.

Rated X wrote:Well the deluxe Prime is G1, but The truck mode is sacrificed, to make the robot mode look so cool. I think the odd angles on the truck due to it’s transformation were enough to avoid paying a licensing fee. That is just my opinion. The voyager version was completely different so people buy both. Also, that’s just my opinion.

Well, it's also a FACT that they have had 0 licensing issues re-releasing the original G1 mold countless times, nor are they having issues releasing MP-10, even in the US even though it's clearly the same truck as the original G1.

Rated X wrote:As far as Kup and Blurr, I think Hasbro took a gamble that young kids would enjoy earth vehicles more than Cybertronian vehicle modes. That is unless those Cybertronian vehicle modes are being featured in a video game like WFC, which Kup and Blurr were not.

Yes, that is a valid point, but they turned Scourge into something else (I'm guessing to have a more realistic aesthetic) and they pretty much left Cyclonus alone.

Rated X wrote:ot Rod (Rodimus) on the other hand is a perfect example of how they didn’t bother to modernize the alt mode because the car doesn’t exist, thus no licensing fee is required. They could have made him a “not” Ferrari or “not” Maserati, but my guess is Hot Rod’s alt mode was just too iconic to mess with. The Prowl/Bluestreak/Smokescreen alt mode was almost 100% G1. They barely changed it up, just enough to avoid paying a licensing fee to Datsun/Nissan. The Starscream mold also has only minor differences to a real F-15 Strike Eagle. And the Ravage that came with Hound turned into a cassette, even though they never made a classics Soundwave that holds cassettes.

Yes, all of that is quite true, but they could have easily made them all more G1 if they wanted to, especially Optimus/Ultra Magnus. Like I said, refer to MP-10.

Rated X wrote:So yes, in my opinion I think the whole “neo” theory about the classics line is just a myth. I believe if Hasbro didn’t have to pay licensing fees, almost all classics figures would feature the original real life vehicles used in G1. I don’t know for sure, but I believe in 1984-85 the licensing fees were either a whole lot cheaper, or maybe Hasbro/Takara were exploiting legal loopholes that have since been closed. I always found it funny that most post 1986 movie figures featured Cybertronian alt modes or extremely futuristic earth modes. I’m not buying into the whole “It is the year 2005” crap. I think Hasbro/Takara got hit with a lawsuit from some car company and decided to stop using real cars. Maybe that’s why Encore hasn’t released everything pre 1986 by now. Once again, just my opinion. It does make sense.

Myth or not is irrelevant, just LOOK at the toys. It isn't about why they did it, simply the fact that they DID. This is why an old VW Beetles doesn't fit in my Classics shelf. But if that doesn't bother you, then that's great, get it. I won't because to me, it stands out like a sore thumb.

As for lawsuits, even though we could have no real 'Lamborgini' in Classics for Sideswipe and his repaints, they did reissue the original G1 toy, which is a Lamborgini Countach, so I'm guessing either licensing doesn't apply to reissues, or their license to use that model still existed. That simply means that Hasbro obviously wanted to use the new Lamborgini for Classics/Generations Sideswipe, but couldn't, so they changed it just enough, otherwise they would have used the old Countach which they must have still had licensing for since they were legally allowed to reissue the G1 toy.

Rated X wrote:Well the deluxe Prime is G1, but The truck mode is sacrificed, to make the robot mode look so cool. I think the odd angles on the truck due to it’s transformation were enough to avoid paying a licensing fee. That is just my opinion. The voyager version was completely different so people buy both. Also, that’s just my opinion. As far as Kup and Blurr, I think Hasbro took a gamble that young kids would enjoy earth vehicles more than Cybertronian vehicle modes. That is unless those Cybertronian vehicle modes are being featured in a video game like WFC, which Kup and Blurr were not.

One, Deluxe Optimus looks shit in both modes.

Secondly, those aren't Cybertronian modes, they are supposed to be "future" toys, remember TF the Movie and season 3 took place in 2005 and 2006, back then the future, that's how they thought cars would look like in the "future".

Hot Rod (Rodimus) on the other hand is a perfect example of how they didn’t bother to modernize the alt mode because the car doesn’t exist, thus no licensing fee is required. They could have made him a “not” Ferrari or “not” Maserati, but my guess is Hot Rod’s alt mode was just too iconic to mess with. The Prowl/Bluestreak/Smokescreen alt mode was almost 100% G1. They barely changed it up, just enough to avoid paying a licensing fee to Datsun/Nissan. The Starscream mold also has only minor differences to a real F-15 Strike Eagle. And the Ravage that came with Hound turned into a cassette, even though they never made a classics Soundwave that holds cassettes.

Except that Hot Rod's alt-mode sorta exists, it was based on a concept car only it was "future-ised".

So yes, in my opinion I think the whole “neo” theory about the classics line is just a myth. I believe if Hasbro didn’t have to pay licensing fees, almost all classics figures would feature the original real life vehicles used in G1. I don’t know for sure, but I believe in 1984-85 the licensing fees were either a whole lot cheaper, or maybe Hasbro/Takara were exploiting legal loopholes that have since been closed. I always found it funny that most post 1986 movie figures featured Cybertronian alt modes or extremely futuristic earth modes. I’m not buying into the whole “It is the year 2005” crap. I think Hasbro/Takara got hit with a lawsuit from some car company and decided to stop using real cars. Maybe that’s why Encore hasn’t released everything pre 1986 by now. Once again, just my opinion. It does make sense.

Except that the normal cars seen in season 3 are also futuristic as in the world they live in.

G1 Optimus Prime wasn't based on one truck, he was a made-up model based on 2 or three different trucks. Classics Starscream is also based on two different models of jet fighter.

We also have an interview in which the head designer of Classics states that the idea behind the Classics line was to explore what the G1 toys would look like had they been made in the present (of 2006). Classics Bumblebee doen'T look like a Beetle, not even like a redesigned Beetle, because he's supposed to turn into a cheap small car teenagers would drive, the modern equivalent of the Beetle basically. Classics Bumblebee was also the first to be designed for the line.
http://pingmag.jp/2007/06/29/transformers/
This is fact.

Classics Hot Rod looks far more like the Dome Zero than the original animation model. Mores the pity.

xyl360 wrote: This is why an old VW Beetles doesn't fit in my Classics shelf. But if that doesn't bother you, then that's great, get it. I won't because to me, it stands out like a sore thumb.

I had a sore thumb recently but I just hid it between several fingers and it fitted in perfectly. No one even noticed!

xyl360 wrote:As for lawsuits, even though we could have no real 'Lamborgini' in Classics for Sideswipe and his repaints, they did reissue the original G1 toy, which is a Lamborgini Countach, so I'm guessing either licensing doesn't apply to reissues, or their license to use that model still existed. That simply means that Hasbro obviously wanted to use the new Lamborgini for Classics/Generations Sideswipe, but couldn't, so they changed it just enough, otherwise they would have used the old Countach which they must have still had licensing for since they were legally allowed to reissue the G1 toy.

Hello Masterpiece Sideswipe!
If the new blood at Hasbro are winning back the licensing from days of old then could we possible see a future Masterpiece Bumblebee in his classic VW Beetle mold?
Now that would be nice!

I read the article. I scrolled down all the way to the bottom, but couldnt find the part you were referring to describing the designers "vision" for the classics line. Is there a page 2 of the interview im missing ? If you are right, I do believe that licensing fees still played at least a small part in that classics "vision".

Also on MP-10 Prime, back in 1984 was it ever a real truck ? Anybody got pictures of the inspiration ? Ive seen the Ratchet van at Botcon 2011, but have never seen the actual G1 Prime Truck.

I display my classics collection in robot mode so the alt modes dont stress me. If I had a choice though, I would prefer the 1980's vehicles for nostalgic reasons. For me personally, it's increased articulation and cartoon accuracy of robot modes that made the classics line a success. It's about them actually being action figures instead of just "box figures" like their 80's predecessors. As far as the alt modes are concerned, I always thought they might as well be as cartoon accurate as the robot modes can be, but thats just me. We got the movie line for modern vehicles.