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Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

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Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby El Duque » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:23 am

Motto: "I ain't got time to bleed!"
Weapon: Gattling Gun
The folks over on The Spacebrigde facebook page have put together two deleted scenes from the 1986's The Transformers: The Movie. The scenes have been reconstructed using the original storyboards. The first scene involves the Autobots rebuffing Devastator's attack on Autobot city. The second depicts the original and more graphic Ultra Magnus death scene. Check them out below.


Here is a video I made of one of the deleted scenes from the 1986 Transformers movie. It's made using a set of production used storyboards I own. I have included a section of the film either side so you can see where it would have fit in. I believe this scene was animated as it exists in very late production notes & music was written to accompany it. It was cut as Nelson Shin felt it ruined the flow of Primes attack leading up to his battle with Megatron. Ultra Magnus, Tracks, Sideswipe & Red Alert were picked to attack Devastator as they all have rocket launchers. It also explains what Megatron was looking at when Prime found him. Hope you like.




This is a deleted scene from the 1986 Transformers Animated movie, recreated from a set of production used storyboards. In the storyboards Ultra Magnus had a much more barbaric death at the hands of the Sweeps. As you can see in the video, he is literally pulled apart. This scene was animated but removed due to concerns over the violence. There are many clues in the film that this scene should still be there. The audio matches this version exactly, Magnus sounds like he is being pulled apart. You see the Sweeps fire out 4 solid beams towards Magnus. Finally Galvatron catches the Matrix when it falls perfectly into his hands from above.


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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby triKlops » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:06 am

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wow, this was really awesome to see. :grin:
would love to know how the storyboards were obtained and compiled.
really interesting video regardless!
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby agentk9 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:11 am

odd how these werent included as extra deleted scenes on the dvd. :BOOM:
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby The Arc » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:14 am

I'm pretty sure the storyboards were included on the DVD.Maybe they were a easter egg.
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Samsonator » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:16 am

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what I'd love to see is some talented animator reproduce these scenes with fluid, full colour animation... that would be boss.
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Darth Bombshell » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:43 am

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agentk9 wrote:odd how these werent included as extra deleted scenes on the dvd. :BOOM:


The first one was. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's a direct rip from the DVD content.
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:58 am

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Weapon: Saber Blade
Being adapted from an earlier draft of the movie, that's exactly how Ultra Magnus died in the Marvel Comics adaptation of the movie.

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Darth Bombshell wrote:
agentk9 wrote:odd how these werent included as extra deleted scenes on the dvd. :BOOM:


The first one was. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's a direct rip from the DVD content.
Yeah, the old Rhino DVD had some gallery images of some (but not all) of these storyboards.
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby King Slick » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:18 pm

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That would explain the later scene of the Junkions rebuilding Ultra Magnus whom looks more like he was torn apart rather than blown apart.
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Megatron Wolf » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:53 pm

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wasnts primes shootout suppose to be longer too? To bad there will never be an extended version with all the extra scenes thrown in.
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby bionic_radical » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:34 pm

Yeah, i think Dirge was supposed to sneak up on Prime and gets his face put into the floor. Also i remember something about someone (Brawn?) originally being torn apart and eaten by insecticons. Another was a battle with Trailbreaker and his forcefield protecting everyone while he qnd Wheeljack were trying to figure out how to defend the city. There was supposed to be an aerial battle with Powerglide supported by Warpath on the ground, and i think Windcharger got thrown up in the air and dissected. Its been so long since I read the original script.
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Cyber Bishop » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:52 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:Being adapted from an earlier draft of the movie, that's exactly how Ultra Magnus died in the Marvel Comics adaptation of the movie.

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.


I was just about to post this..
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Bumblevivisector » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:38 pm

bionic_radical wrote:Yeah, i think Dirge was supposed to sneak up on Prime and gets his face put into the floor. Also i remember something about someone (Brawn?) originally being torn apart and eaten by insecticons. Another was a battle with Trailbreaker and his forcefield protecting everyone while he qnd Wheeljack were trying to figure out how to defend the city. There was supposed to be an aerial battle with Powerglide supported by Warpath on the ground, and i think Windcharger got thrown up in the air and dissected. Its been so long since I read the original script.

Yeah, Dirge tackling Optimus actually did get animated; I remember seeing that at Botcon 2000 amidst all those extra storyboard sequences, shortened versions of which ended up on the Rhino DVD. I think Windcharger getting torn up by Cyclonus's armada in mid air first came to light when that early draft of the script was released through the Disciples of Boltax blog, but I'm not sure about the other stuff you mentioned in between, except that Wheeljack, Blaster and some other '84-'85 'bots stayed behind outside the ruins of the Autobot city after Galvatron's forces melted it down in that same draft.

Say, anyone know if that draft is still available anywhere online? It was stored on Megaupload, which naturally ended when the RIAA talked the feds into that illegal raid. (Sorry if I'm taking sides where I shouldn't, but no way did anyone have the right to crush their whole site, and we all united against SOPA/PIPA back then right?)

Much as I'd love to see more than just that one "lost" animation sequence turn up, I've got a feeling it's just our collective wishful thinking. Then again, that extended cut of Metropolis was found intact in a vault, so who knows?
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Neurie » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:42 pm

IVe seen that book at the owners hosue and how it was come by.

Not my place to say but it was above board.

Theres other tid bits in there which are interesting. The book is in pretty good condition and hopefully the other bits will come to light soon when the owner feels like sharing a bit more :)
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:40 am

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Bumblevivisector wrote:Yeah, Dirge tackling Optimus actually did get animated; I remember seeing that at Botcon 2000 amidst all those extra storyboard sequences, shortened versions of which ended up on the Rhino DVD.


can you prove that?

I dont mean to sound rude, but in the 20+ years, I've seen plenty of claims of animated scenes such as the one you pointed out, but no one can ever provide any proof.

I think Windcharger getting torn up by Cyclonus's armada in mid air first came to light when that early draft of the script was released through the Disciples of Boltax blog,


are you sure you mean Windcharger, because he was intended to die earlier in the film.

but I'm not sure about the other stuff you mentioned in between, except that Wheeljack, Blaster and some other '84-'85 'bots stayed behind outside the ruins of the Autobot city after Galvatron's forces melted it down in that same draft.


again, those shots took place durring Megatrons attack , not Galvatrons
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby michael alex kawa » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:42 am

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The videos are awesome ,yes I have seen the storyboards ,but seeing the placement ,and hearing the voices made them better .So awesome of the people at Spacebridge to share . :grin:
As for the Devastator :CON: scene ,it would of ruined the flow of the epic battle between Optimus :BOT: and Megatron :CON: ,just an opinion .It would of been epic ,but not placed right .
As for the Ultra Magnus :BOT: scene ,that would of been so much better ,wish they used it .
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Red 50 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:04 am

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Weapon: Twin Sonic Cannons
So, what? Magnus being torn up is too brutal, but a mass-genocide of Lithonians, execution by feeding to sharkticons and acid pool aren't?

Actually I think those two scenes would have been quite logical to retain.
And Magnus's tearing can't be as horrifying as Optimus's death, right?
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:14 am

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Red 50 wrote:So, what? Magnus being torn up is too brutal, but a mass-genocide of Lithonians, execution by feeding to sharkticons and acid pool aren't?p.


well think about it.

Its not like we really saw those scenes.

We didnt "ACTUALLY" see any Lithonians die, we saw their planet eaten, we saw one of their people have his ship sucked into Unicron.

Same can be said for the one that got executed, we saw the Sharkticon leap twards him, but we didnt see him get ripped apart.

And Magnus's tearing can't be as horrifying as Optimus's death, right?


a slow fade to death vrs being ripped to shreads..........sorry, being ripped apart takes the cake
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:13 am

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As for the attack on Devastator, I wish they would have kept it in, it would have counter-balanced his assault on the city earlier, as well as explained why the Constructicons were dinged up on Astrotrain, even though they were still able to merge. Well, almost.
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Cloudraker_Fastlane » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:14 am

From what I can remember the scene you guys are refering to where Dirge jumps Prime was actually going to take place after the constructicon vs Magnus and co scene. It was mentioned in a DVD edition of the movie in the UK a while ago. After Megs says 'why throw away your life so recklessly', you see Prime get up from a kneeling position and say 'thats a questions you should ask yourself Megatron'. Prime was actually getting up from slamming Dirges head into the ground.

Hope that helps
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Mixsound » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:01 pm

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Let's FLY!!" -- says Crusade Prime, our newest leader."
When Megatron and the Decepticons boarded the Autobot shuttle on its way to Earth, didn't BlueStreak or Prowl have a horrible death with him being shot and his blue optics breaks and fire comes out of this mouth AND eye sockets? I thought I was that as a kid on a local TV station once back in the day.
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby XDMan » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:52 pm

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Witnessing Red Alert's death: Poor S2 dude died so quickly.

Witnessin Manus's death: :SICK: How graphic!

Now any word on Mirage's death?
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Bumblevivisector » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:58 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Bumblevivisector wrote:Yeah, Dirge tackling Optimus actually did get animated; I remember seeing that at Botcon 2000 amidst all those extra storyboard sequences, shortened versions of which ended up on the Rhino DVD.


can you prove that?

I dont mean to sound rude, but in the 20+ years, I've seen plenty of claims of animated scenes such as the one you pointed out, but no one can ever provide any proof.

I'd be skeptical too, but since cell phone video functions weren't as common then and I still couldn't find it on YouTube just now, the closest thing to proof would be if anyone else around here remembers attending that same presentation. I know it was 2000 in Fort Wayne, since that's the only Botcon I was fortunate enough to attend. I concur with Clouudraker_Fastlane that it was right in the middle of that Op/Meg exchange; he showed more than just the few seconds of Dirge, and it seemed seamless. I'm guessing the guy with that binder with the storyboards has it, since they were in the same presentation, but I don't remember his name. Hopefully he can legally release it someday.

Incidentally, the full TFTM screening at the nearby theater that year had another few seconds of footage possibly never seen on home video: a bit of Blaster's radio mode synching up with other equipment before sending his distress message to Optimus. Everyone in the theater went bonkers, leaving us even more pissed off at an incredibly sloppy jump-edit that left a few seconds out of the Cassette-fight-to-"City-Under-Siege" transition a minute later.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Bumblevivisector wrote:I think Windcharger getting torn up by Cyclonus's armada in mid air first came to light when that early draft of the script was released through the Disciples of Boltax blog,


are you sure you mean Windcharger, because he was intended to die earlier in the film.

but I'm not sure about the other stuff you mentioned in between, except that Wheeljack, Blaster and some other '84-'85 'bots stayed behind outside the ruins of the Autobot city after Galvatron's forces melted it down in that same draft.


again, those shots took place durring Megatrons attack , not Galvatrons

I'm not sure what "shot" you're referring to for Wheeljack and Blaster; the scene I'm talking about was the oddest duck in that whole draft, with no analog in the actual movie, occurring just after both shuttles are shot down in space. (I'll quote it below for clarity) Yes, Windcharger and Wheeljack both died during Megatron's attack in the finished film. I keep referring to stuff in that early script that likely got nixed long before the first storyboards, since that's what bionic_radical was referring to when he said Windcharger was thrown in the air and dissected. You know, the draft with all manner of "life-sparks" but no Matrix, the pre-Predacon Anibots who form Dragon Beast, and Unicron consistently called "Ingestor" while sucking energy out of Earth through a "straw of cold light" touching down on Autobot City.

Is that 1985 draft still available anywhere? Shame if it's not, but I found my copy, and here's a cut and paste (with a few inexplicable errors on the part of my computer that I'll leave unedited) of the part where Windcharger and Gears die next to Blaster, during the Galvatron assault which was so different as to be apocalyptic, with Autobot City being melted down:

Pages 64 and 65:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANOTHER ANGLE - GEARS
as Cyclonus swoops past and BOMBS GEARS TO PIECES, the force of
the blast THROWS tiITNDCHARGER UP and away from cover
BLAS~R
Gears ! Oh, man ..•.
(looks up)
HIS P.O.V. - WINDCHARGER
as several of Cyclonus' planes JET THROUGH HIM, ~RING HIM TO
PIECES which rain down on Blaster's position
BLAS~R
as arm, ~eg , torso of Windcharger rain down
BLASTER
I think the time has come to
hide my pride and •..•.. run!
Blaster RUNS followed by Mirage and other in Autobot party as
they dodge behind rubble and duck as WALL OF CITY COMES FALLING
in the way of their pursuers and we
CUT TO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And here's the scene outside Autobot City's ruins later on. It's an odd dead end, as this script never does get back to Earth, which along with several hand-corrections makes me think this was at least a second draft:

Pages 91-93:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A ROADS IDE IN THE HOUNTAINS OF EARTH - NIGHT
in the distance we see the fiery glow of burning remains of Autobot
City and the COLD RAY "FEEDING STRAW" extending down from somewhere
in space. A beat and we CHANGE ANGLE TO SHOW APPROACH OF SCOURGE
AND SliEEPS in vehicular mode. Scourge is in mid-transform position,
his head sticking up from his vehicle, leading the ominous procession
which is accompanied by a BLEEPING, SCANNING NOISE as A SliEEP
ANTENNA TURNS AND BEAMS SONIC WAVES HERE AND THERE, COVERING THE
AREA. SOl~ OF BLEEPS BECOMES FASTER AND HIGHER PITCHED
ON SCOURGE
SCOURGE
Life forms sensed! Eliminate
at once!
ANOTHER ANGLE -ON SWEEPS VEHICLES
as theY suddenly RUN UP OVER SIDE OF ROAD AND TURN, OPENING FIRE
in FLAMETHROWER LIKE BLAST at LINE OF TREES AND OLD STONE FARM
BUILDING IN THE SHADOWS. BUILDING EXPLODES AND TREES BURN AND
CRACKLE as section of wall FALLS TOW'ARD CAMERA AND WE CLOSE IN ON
OLD "SKELETON" OF DECEPTICON
which is now a flaming HULK as it FALLS FORWARD AND CLUNKS APART
in a HISSING PUDDLE OF WATER, STEAM AND DEBRIS RISING as the
head SEPARATES AND AN EYE ROLLS OUT and across dirt to
SCOURGE'S HAND
where Scourge, now in humanoid mode, scoops it up and looks at
it. The Eye BLINKS back at him.
SCOURGE
One of our Troopers. He must have
been terminated yesterday.
(tosses the eye to
a Sweep)
Take it back to the spare parts
bank. A functioning unit may
have need of it!
(shouts)
Sweeps, Transform!
Scourge TRANSFORMS followed by Sweeps vehicles and they ROLL OFF.
HOLD ON ROADSIDE A BEAT then CHANGE ANGLE as Blaster pops up from
hiding accompanied by other Autobots including Sunstreaker.
92
BLASTER
Those ugly suckers '11 be back!
We got to keep rollin' until we
can put together enough muscle
to boot their bustle! Yeah!
(turns, looks off,
reacts, drawing weapon)
They doubled back to attack!
Sunstreaker and other Autobot survivors crouch, ready for battle,
weapons drawn, as SOUND OF APPROACHING VEHICLE DRAWS CLOSER
THEIR P.O.V. - SHADOWY TREES ON OTHER SIDE OF FIELDS - NIGHT
as DARK VEHICLE HURTLES TOWARD CAMERA and then almost fills screen
BLASTER (V. O. )
Mess 'em up!
ANOTHER ANGLE - SHOWING MYSTERY VEHICLE TO BE WHEELJACK
as Wheeljack TRANSFORMS to humanoid mode
WHEELJACK
Bold it!
Blaster, Sunstreaker and other Autobots react happily, adlibbing,
"Wheeljack! ... He's still functioning .....Bey, Wheeljack~" etc.
BLASTER
Wheeljack! I figured you got
incinerated in the city! I sure am
glad to be respondin' to your
image on my optic readout circuitry!
Yeah!
WHEELJACK
(grimly)
You might not be so thrilled when
you hear what I've got to say....
(a beat to regain
his composure)
I've been tracking the shuttles .
Ultra Magnus and the Dinobots .
ever since they blasted off, and .
(lowers his head)
SUNSTREAKER
Well, go on! I hate suspense! Are
they all right?
(a beat, understands, hangs head)
93
BLASTER
(to Wheeljack)
You could be wrong, Jack!
WHEELJACK
(shakes his head)
The Decepticons used moleculon
devices. There's no mistaking the readouts ....
Adlib reactions of sadness and sorrow ... "Ultra Magnus .. everybody ...
lost!" etc.
BLASTER
(a beat, then with
resolve)
I don't believe in readouts -
I believe in hope! So, far as
I'm concerned, everybody that
counts is still operational
somewhere~ Now let's get·us gone
whilst the gone-in' is good!
(shouts)
Roll, you Autobots!
ANOTHER ANGLE
as Autobots shout adlib "Roll:" "You got it:" etc. and some TRANSFORM
and start moving out as a SHUDDER GOES THROUGH THE LANDSCAPE,
the FIELDS AND HILLS UNDu~TE and there is a HUGE , SUBMERGED
ROAR AND CRACKING SOUND and then, all is still.
SUNSTREAKER
(brea thlessly)
Wha,'/O .what was that?
WHEELJACK
The earth!s reaction to the
Decepticon energy drain .....
If depletion continues at its
present rate, this planet will
self-destruct within the next
forty eight hours.
On Blaster's reaction and reaction of others, the EARTH AGAIN
UNDULATES, SHUDDERS AND CRE..2\KES OMINOUSLY AS WE
CUT TO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, at least it acknowledged many of the Autobots who survived both attacks on the city as not simply disappearing.

Someone please tell me at least one TF fan site still has the PDF of this script! It was huge news back in 2010, so I can't believe it's already faded from fandom's consciousness 2 and a half years later.
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:40 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Bumblevivisector wrote:I'd be skeptical too, but since cell phone video functions weren't as common then and I still couldn't find it on YouTube just now, the closest thing to proof would be if anyone else around here remembers attending that same presentation.


Again, not gto sound rude, but even if others claimed they remembered what your speek of I wouldnt believe it with out solid proof.

And heres the reason why,do you know how many fans claim they remember the G1 cartoon coming out before the G1 comic books?

To this day they swear up and down that the cartoon was first

Sorry peoples memories cant be trusted to solve these questions.

Incidentally, the full TFTM screening at the nearby theater that year had another few seconds of footage possibly never seen on home video: a bit of Blaster's radio mode synching up with other equipment before sending his distress message to Optimus.


Sorry friend, but that post makes me question your memory even more.

Blaster connecting to other equipment has been part of every home video release,Here are pics taken from my very 1st vhs tape of the film
before he connects
Image

as he connects [note the 2 gold/yellow parts connected to his sides]
Image

connected and transmitting
Image


and thanks for the reminder of thsat easrly script
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby Bumblevivisector » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:57 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Bumblevivisector wrote:Incidentally, the full TFTM screening at the nearby theater that year had another few seconds of footage possibly never seen on home video: a bit of Blaster's radio mode synching up with other equipment before sending his distress message to Optimus.


Sorry friend, but that post makes me question your memory even more.

Blaster connecting to other equipment has been part of every home video release,Here are pics taken from my very 1st vhs tape of the film
before he connects
Image

as he connects [note the 2 gold/yellow parts connected to his sides]
Image

connected and transmitting
Image


Yes, of course that's been in every cut. That's why I didn't say connecting, I said synching, but yes, I should have clarified what I meant: after Blaster connected with the chair, it cut to some sort of readout, possibly on the same console he uses to swivel his chair just before Perceptor pops up, for about 3 seconds, then to his sending the message as usual. It's tougher to describe than the Dirge-tackle, or even remember the details of since it wasn't an extra "thing" happening beyond his synching with the communications equipment, but there was a collective "...the HELL?!?" from the audience seeing something they didn't expect.

I have no idea if that particular copy of the film was shown at any other conventions (The Men In Black supposedly had a copy that they ended up not being able to show at Transcon '97 because they couldn't get permission or something) or how the politics of different movie cuts works (I've heard tell of scenes in TV showings of 'The Goonies' and 'Legend' that have never been included in home video releases, but haven't done any homework on those). I'd love to see proof show up too. As for comparison with other unverified memories of stuff from theatrical TFTM showings, I'll just finish by saying that unlike that rumored Optimus's-body-crumbling-to-dust scene detailed on TFWiki, both the Dirge and Blaster footage would fit into the home video cuts rather than replacing anything.

No, I'm not trying to convince you or show-off or anything, since that would require some pics I don't have. Just relating what I saw since it's relevant to the topic. As it's been 12 and a half years between these storyboards' appearance at BoCon 2000 and these 2 lovely recreations, I'm confident we'll see proof of the Dirge scene any...decade now. (sigh)
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Re: Reconstructed Deleted Scenes from The Transformers: The Movie

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:57 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Bumblevivisector wrote:Yes, of course that's been in every cut. That's why I didn't say connecting, I said synching, but yes, I should have clarified what I meant: after Blaster connected with the chair, it cut to some sort of readout, possibly on the same console he uses to swivel his chair just before Perceptor pops up, for about 3 seconds, then to his sending the message as usual.


thanks for making youyrself clearer..............but you'll forgive me if I dont take your word on it alone

and I'm not accusing you of anything, I just dont believe that these particular scenes are out there,.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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