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Recently I found one of the red versions of Bumblebee (a red Bumble, NOT Cliffjumper) at the Goodwill for a buck, the info on the foot says "Takara 1979-1983" and DOES NOT have the super imposed "Hasbro" label, but does have the rub-sticker (though that may have been stuck on him later) which leads me to be believe it is either from the original, pre-Transformers, Takara Japanese toy-line, or simply a Japanese version Bumblebee. I have to assume that he's fairly rare here in the US but either way, other then the fact that he exists, I haven't been able to find out any information about him. Anyone have any additional info concerning his general value or collectability? Anything would be awesome.

I'm pretty sure Red Bumblebees and Yellow Cliffjumpers made it out into the wild back in the day. Although strange looking, they are not unheard of.

A number Bumblebees where released red. It is more rare obviously. Dont know how much more valuable this would be. Look on eBay and see what they are going for. Also they had the South American TFs IIRC had lots of different colored Bees.

Thanks. Yeah, I know they made red Bumble's, but I'm really trying to find out if it's a pre Transformers/Hasbro model. (like I said it does not have the Hasbro logo, ONLY Takara)I've looked on ebay and such but those people seem to know less then I do.

Cool find. I wouldn't mind one myself.

ive got one of those, well 4/5th of one its misisng a foot/half the front bonnet.

Mine says takara 1980-1982

again no hasbro marker, but no rub sticker either (though since its older than me good chance its just fallen off)

Lack of Hasbro doesn't mean a thing about it being Japanese or not. Early Hasbro releases didn't have any Hasbro stampings on the toys either. Not sure when they started getting them, but there would've been plenty of Bumblebees out there in both colors long before that happened.

The rub sign thing would be a little weird, as those came later as well, but like you say, someone might've stuck that on later.

Dark Optimum Supreme wrote:Lack of Hasbro doesn't mean a thing about it being Japanese or not. Early Hasbro releases didn't have any Hasbro stampings on the toys either. Not sure when they started getting them, but there would've been plenty of Bumblebees out there in both colors long before that happened.

The rub sign thing would be a little weird, as those came later as well, but like you say, someone might've stuck that on later.

Actionable intelligence. Thanks.

Same goes for the date I suppose? (Which I type-o’d by the way. It actually says 1974-1983)

So, I guess the next question would be; is there ANY way to tell? I’d really like to find out if he was from the Microchange series. I do know that 1985 was the only year that they released both red & yellow versions with the rub sticker, if in fact it’s original, but I would be surprised if they actually released a toy in the states with out dated copyright details. (Though I assume with the explosion of demand for them at that time, they were likely stocking shelves with whatever they could.)

I'll sneak in and show this..

There are two Hong Kong eBay listings, with a Red and a Black/Police Bumblebee.
Police Black Loose Bumblebee

Red Loose Bumblebee

Va'al wrote:I'll sneak in and show this..

There are two Hong Kong eBay listings, with a Red and a Black/Police Bumblebee.
Police Black Loose Bumblebee

Red Loose Bumblebee

Thanks man, but my guys about 25 years older than those.

RustyRobotOil wrote:

Va'al wrote:I'll sneak in and show this..

There are two Hong Kong eBay listings, with a Red and a Black/Police Bumblebee.
Police Black Loose Bumblebee

Red Loose Bumblebee

Thanks man, but my guys about 25 years older than those.

Yeah, I gathered.

This was just my 0.0141944642 €

I have a red 'Bee, got him way back in the day (was on a regular Bumblebee card FWIW).

Fred's Variations page had a great breakdown on the Minibots, though the site's been eaten by scraplets.
Plug this address (http://geocities.com/futuristgroup/vminibots.html)into the Internet Wayback Machines though, and shoot for sometime in '09.

RustyRobotOil wrote:

Dark Optimum Supreme wrote:Lack of Hasbro doesn't mean a thing about it being Japanese or not. Early Hasbro releases didn't have any Hasbro stampings on the toys either. Not sure when they started getting them, but there would've been plenty of Bumblebees out there in both colors long before that happened.

The rub sign thing would be a little weird, as those came later as well, but like you say, someone might've stuck that on later.

Actionable intelligence. Thanks.

Same goes for the date I suppose? (Which I type-o’d by the way. It actually says 1974-1983)

So, I guess the next question would be; is there ANY way to tell? I’d really like to find out if he was from the Microchange series. I do know that 1985 was the only year that they released both red & yellow versions with the rub sticker, if in fact it’s original, but I would be surprised if they actually released a toy in the states with out dated copyright details. (Though I assume with the explosion of demand for them at that time, they were likely stocking shelves with whatever they could.)

The copyright dates refer not just to the mold, but to the Microman franchise as a whole, due to how Japanese copyright laws worked at the time.

And guys, you REALLY need to check TFWiki more often in such cases:

'Bee has a lot of minor variations. Throughout 1984 and 1985, Bumblebee was produced in both yellow and red (as was Cliffjumper), a move meant to "make the line look bigger" according to former Hasbro R&D Vice President George Dunsay. For his 1984 release, both color versions had an Autobot sigil on the roof/chest. In 1985, this was replaced by a rubsign. The rubsign remained on the 1986 release, though he was only released in yellow that year.

Put short, releasing him in red and yellow was intentional, and both had rubsigns for their 1985 release.

Hi, if it has the TAKARA in the Circle stamp you've got a microchange Bumblebee - the fact that it has an attached Rub sticker means it isn't the Overstocked Red bees that were repackaged because they had just a standard Faction sticker, hope this is helpful. If you're feeling Like a Puritan you could peel of the rub sticker off - burn it, buy yourself the rectangular sticker from repro labels to take him back to his original Microchange Glory! either way you have a great find there - Well done

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
And guys, you REALLY need to check TFWiki more often in such cases:

'Bee has a lot of minor variations. Throughout 1984 and 1985, Bumblebee was produced in both yellow and red (as was Cliffjumper), a move meant to "make the line look bigger" according to former Hasbro R&D Vice President George Dunsay. For his 1984 release, both color versions had an Autobot sigil on the roof/chest. In 1985, this was replaced by a rubsign. The rubsign remained on the 1986 release, though he was only released in yellow that year.

Put short, releasing him in red and yellow was intentional, and both had rubsigns for their 1985 release.

?

I did. That's why I said I knew he was only reased in both colors with the rubsign in 85.

Quantum Reflex wrote:Hi, if it has the TAKARA in the Circle stamp you've got a microchange Bumblebee - the fact that it has an attached Rub sticker means it isn't the Overstocked Red bees that were repackaged because they had just a standard Faction sticker, hope this is helpful. If you're feeling Like a Puritan you could peel of the rub sticker off - burn it, buy yourself the rectangular sticker from repro labels to take him back to his original Microchange Glory! either way you have a great find there - Well done

Awesome, thanks!