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Sabrblade wrote:True, but those are key factors in the matter.

Can't disagree there, though I still maintain that for a show to be good all elements have to be present. If it was just good acting and storytelling, it might as well e an audiobook or something similar.

Sabrblade wrote:Would hand-drawn animation not also be able to express these little bits as well? They aren't exactly something that can only be done with CG.

I think it would be entirely possible, but less likely to happen. The 3D CGI just makes it feel a lot more intense, and a lot more real.

Sabrblade wrote:And would you still find the show as entertaining if the score was less on the "epic orchestra" side and more on the "action-y heavy metal rock and roll" side?

Personally probably not quite as much, but that's down to my own tastes-it would still be a great show make no mistake.

Henry921 wrote:

Bouncy X wrote:i don't get this trend lately of having cartoons last 2 or 3 seasons and then end them...only to have a new "version" start up shortly after. whats wrong with cartoons lasting 5 to 10 seasons like any normal show?

like in this case in particular, it was apparently a well performing and obviously well received show so why end it? and when end it so prematurely with a half season and then a movie? why not at least give it a full season like the first two? and this seems to have happened to all the Transformers show that have come since G1.

The goal of any TV series is 65 episodes for syndication, so the show can be shopped around to additional networks that want to air it. Now that Prime has hit that milestone, Hasbro could continue but no longer needs to do so. While they might make money off additional seasons, they'll make more money if they have two shows that both make it to syndication they can then shop around. If the shows are thematically connected, they have an additional selling point, and an interested network could pick up both.

Win-win-win for Hasbro that way, rather than just one solitary win.


I'm interested in what Orci's planning and eagerly await more info. Assuming they're continuing from Prime, I still see a lot of potential plot to work with.

In addition to this the core target audience is children whose tastes change as they grow up. Think about yourself as an 8 year old compared to a 13 year old. Your tastes are totally different and you might not really follow a kids tv show and want to buy toys to play with beyond a certain window.

Any new viewers reaching the right age where they can jump on the show might not like the fact there is a whole backstory spanning several years to catch up on.

While this sucks for adults who enjoy the show we are sadly not who the show is marketed for

ArmadaPrime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Would hand-drawn animation not also be able to express these little bits as well? They aren't exactly something that can only be done with CG.

I think it would be entirely possible, but less likely to happen. The 3D CGI just makes it feel a lot more intense, and a lot more real.

Energon, RobotMasters, Cybertron, and Go! also feature CGI Autobots and Decepticons, yet they are almost completely incapable of displaying any kind of emotional/behavioral expression whatsoever, with this instance being one of the sole exceptions of all four shows outside of any super-deformed gag moments.

Conversely, Animated had no CGI whatsoever and its cast was extremely emotive and expressive, showing an enormous amount of behavioral quirks and emotions.

It's not the medium of the animation that matters, but the directorial decisions put into it. The CGI of Prime (and Beast Wars and Beast Machines) was so expressive because it had such a strong directorial staff, whereas the CGI of the four other series I mentioned did not have as strong a directorial staff (or at least had directors with completely different creative visions from those of Prime that they didn't feel the need to let the CGI be as expressive).

skyshadowprimus wrote:

Henry921 wrote:

Bouncy X wrote:i don't get this trend lately of having cartoons last 2 or 3 seasons and then end them...only to have a new "version" start up shortly after. whats wrong with cartoons lasting 5 to 10 seasons like any normal show?

like in this case in particular, it was apparently a well performing and obviously well received show so why end it? and when end it so prematurely with a half season and then a movie? why not at least give it a full season like the first two? and this seems to have happened to all the Transformers show that have come since G1.

The goal of any TV series is 65 episodes for syndication, so the show can be shopped around to additional networks that want to air it. Now that Prime has hit that milestone, Hasbro could continue but no longer needs to do so. While they might make money off additional seasons, they'll make more money if they have two shows that both make it to syndication they can then shop around. If the shows are thematically connected, they have an additional selling point, and an interested network could pick up both.

Win-win-win for Hasbro that way, rather than just one solitary win.


I'm interested in what Orci's planning and eagerly await more info. Assuming they're continuing from Prime, I still see a lot of potential plot to work with.

In addition to this the core target audience is children whose tastes change as they grow up. Think about yourself as an 8 year old compared to a 13 year old. Your tastes are totally different and you might not really follow a kids tv show and want to buy toys to play with beyond a certain window.

Any new viewers reaching the right age where they can jump on the show might not like the fact there is a whole backstory spanning several years to catch up on.

While this sucks for adults who enjoy the show we are sadly not who the show is marketed for

And yet that didn't stop Dragonball, One Piece, TMNT, Batman TAS and its associated spinoffs.

All of which were comics before being turned into shows. Not that any of that has anything to do with your argument, just kinda putting it out there.

njb902 wrote:All of which were comics before being turned into shows. Not that any of that has anything to do with your argument, just kinda putting it out there.

Transformers was a comic series in the months before its original cartoon came out.

Though, for TMNT, its original cartoon barely resembled its original comics, as most of the cartoon was completely original material rather than material adapted from the comics.

In other words, they're going to do the same thing Marvel did when they canceled Spectacular Spider-Man and Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Ultimate Spider-Man isn't horrible, but it sure isn't on the level of it's predecessor. And Avengers Assemble isn't that bad either, but still not on the same level of the previous show. The intensity has been dialed way way back and so far they're pretty successful.

GodMagnus wrote:In other words, they're going to do the same thing Marvel did when they canceled Spectacular Spider-Man and Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Ultimate Spider-Man isn't horrible, but it sure isn't on the level of it's predecessor. And Avengers Assemble isn't that bad either, but still not on the same level of the previous show. The intensity has been dialed way way back and so far they're pretty successful.

Prime was at a much higher level than Spectacular Spider-Man and Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes were.

Spectacular Spider-Man felt like it was on par with Animated (cartoony art style with awesome storytelling).

Sabrblade wrote:

Metrosuplex wrote:The new cartoon will aim to capture kids like TMNT has, and I , quite frankly, hope it fails.

Baka! If the new TF cartoon is as any bit as good as the current TMNT cartoon, that would frankly be a godsend to the TF brand. That TMNT cartoon is so good it's universally beloved by Turtles fans of all ages.

1) You're quoting me out of context. Shame.
2) Simple Japanese insults? Really? So you think it's okay to insult people in Japanese? Cabron?
3)Kids are as fickle as the f*cking moon. If you want to capture kids, make a tablet game... OH WAIT! HASBRO IS BUYING APP GAME COMPANIES! HOLY SH*T! Seriously, my comment should be read like this: the adult fans have stuck with the franchise and spent more money than the kids. The kids outnumber adults, but the kids do not buy the toys... the adults do. Adult parents who know the brand and have stuck with it (or are returning to it, "for their kids' sake"). And I've said this before: kids like adult things. That's why they play Call of Duty, despite the graphic intensity and language. I.e. you can sell things to adults and still entertain kids, whereas you do NOT see many adults buying kid things (i.e. do you play Pokemon, almost 20 years later? And if you do, are you as impressed as when you were 9?).

Sabrblade wrote:

Metrosuplex wrote:

njb902 wrote:
Kids are their real customers.

I expected you to say something a little better than that!

Why do you say kids are the real customer? Is it because Hasbro told you?

Always have been, always will be. That's just the way it is.

The adult customers just make up a fraction of their consumer market. The majority is made up of either kids or parents buying for their kids.

The parents who are buying are old customers - i.e. the buying chain goes through the old fans almost any way you look at it. Parents are comfortable with brands they recognize, and TF is clearly banking on some of that nostalgia, as so many other companies are. Hasbro is really quick to deny the adult fanbase size, but they're also suspiciously fixated on kids, and their choice of selling ALL BB AND OPTIMUS does not give one much confidence that they have ANY IDEA about actual marketing/sales figures. In other words, Hasbro is incompetent for having so much unsold crap on shelves, and then putting the same crap up and expecting different results - you can't really trust them to know much about their customers, IMO.

Sabrblade wrote:For me, it's not because they weren't the stars, it's that they simply were not interesting for the most part. In Animated, both were very fascinating characters full of so much life and energy, but they weren't the stars either. It was a group effort of Optimus, Bumblebee, Bulkhead, Ratchet, Prowl, and Sari who were all stars equally.

I enjoy Prime so much that I don't notice these things. What growth did the characters in BW have, for example? That was an insane roller coaster of characters who didn't change much at all (if at all). How about G1? Did BB get wiser by the end? The only characters that grew were Rodimus (and this was out of a stupid need to replace Optimus with... Hot Rod Optimus - a new sculpt, same personality) and the human characters... sort of.

Anyway, I think some better examples would be nice, as all of these statements of character development seem kind of... personal and subjective. Maybe you guys would be better off expressing HOW you wanted these characters to change in Prime.

One other side note: the characters in Prime are portrayed as older and war-battered. They're the last survivors, and we get some back-story with some (i.e. young Arcee was a little different with Tailgate versus Cliffjumper versus Jack). The fact that you don't see phenomenal "growth" is kind of a sign of their age and seen-it-all experience. Plus, the "growth" is really aimed more at their relationship with humans (and each other). So they DO grow as characters, in that their relationships develop and strengthen over the course of the show... all of this is GOOD writing, so I don't understand why you guys are hung up on it.

But yeah, BB and Grandpa/Optimus are written like crap.

Sabrblade wrote:

Megatron Wolf wrote:son of a bitch, the hope of finally getting a good TF series has been shot down yet again. Well lets just hope Prime gets a personality this time around and the kids arent annoying. Oh & for the love of god lose the bayformer look. But on another note why do we need a kid friendly transformers, isnt that rescue bots job?

Silly Wolf, TFs are for kids.

HAHAHAHAH! Nice. They should throw some Trix into the show, just to remind us! Maybe a rabbit-robo to taunt the collectors, too! HAHAHA!

Sabrblade wrote::HEADHURTS:

*sigh*

It's threads like this that seriously make me wish that Transformers: Prime never existed.

My top shows are 1) PRime, 2) G1, and then 3) BW. Which is to say, those are the three shows I've watched in entirety! But I still love Prime, even if Animated ends up better. All this Prime hate/criticism only makes me appreciate it more. And Miko is one of the cutest characters to ever pop out of a TF program - haters be damned!

Metrosuplex wrote:And I've said this before: kids like adult things. That's why they play Call of Duty, despite the graphic intensity and language. I.e. you can sell things to adults and still entertain kids, whereas you do NOT see many adults buying kid things (i.e. do you play Pokemon, almost 20 years later? And if you do, are you as impressed as when you were 9?).

Uh we buy Transformers, Star Wars, Marvel/DC, TMNT, etc.. toys. I know more people that are around my age that buy toys than ever before. Most of the users here are 18+ and we all share a common bond, we all buy and love Transformers toys/items. So I think that says that adults do buy kid things.
And I know quite a few adults that play Pokemon, travel to the regional tournaments and still love the game more now because it has evolved so much through the years.