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Looks like it'll be another movei I'll be avoiding for the TF movie franchise.

I don't doubt there are some people who want an exact copy of G1, but by the same token the current franchise hasn't been much better (I've been reading the comic adaptations which thankfully avoid most of Bay's idiotice toilet humour). The problem with the designs, to use a pictorial reference to take it out of the "Geewunner vs Bayformer" usual pidgeon-holing is that in human terms they are best represented as this:



Seriously, some kind of lquid metal skin ablative sking with colour changing properties on top of the designs (think Derek Yaniger's artistic style with the Cybertronain empire TFs), instead of a forcefield, would have been much more in line with the comics while giving it a "real world" translation. Yet instead of this, it was "this looks cool" over substance.

Likewise the story. The irony is that while the "Geewunner vs Bayformer" debate was raging on, IDW gave us the dead-Furmanverse which did everything which Murphy and co claimed they wanted to do while treating the idea seriously instead of taking valuable screen time away for "Sam's happy time".

This franchise badly needs a reboot. DOTM by all accounts was close to where things should have been at to begin with, but sadly it was saddled by the previous two movies. At some point they need to admit that they only found their feet with the 3rd movie, and let the first 2 fade into obscurity like Warner Bros had the good sense to do with Batman Forever and Batman and Robin.

Couple things.

1. Way, way too many dollars being made to contemplate the reboot regardless of quality. If you want a reboot you have to hope the 4th movie fails miserably just like you had to hope DOTM fails miserably just like you had to hope ROTF failed miserably just like you had to hope TF 2007 would fail miserably.

All things considered. None of those things have happened. You can still put all your eggs in the basket of hoping TF4 fails miserably. All things considered the problem for the people who want to see the franchise fail under this current regime is in fact the fact that it has a fan following under its current regime. Proof? The dollars it makes. Which means the next thing you have to hope for is the casual fan stops coming which again hasn't happened yet.

2. Batman and Transformers is apples and oranges.

People naturally wanted Batman to go back to its darker roots after Forever/Robin. I don't think there was crow of people who wanted another Forever/Robin/Adam West style Batman.

Transformers doesn't have the dark lore to stand on. What it does have is better constructed humor than the toilet humor featured mostly in ROTF/DOTM. While DOTM had less of the toilet humor. When it presented itself it served to derail any significance of key scenes before or after.

I think if Bay could tone down the crude humor and construct it better. The movies will be fine. There are serious moments in all 3 films. The problem by and large is the ridiculous humor.

Then comes the question of does Bay actually ADD this humor in himself or are the powers that be at Paramount telling him his movies are 'too dark' and need more humor to offset. The problem with that is its hard to believe Bay would let that happen. Cause then he would look like a puppet for the studios. Which in fairness, maybe he is.

AND if he is. Then you know you need someone in the chair whose not a studio puppet.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Slashercon wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Gorechyld wrote:Oh dear god that is a horrible picture! What the hell IS going on with her neck, that picture makes her look like she has no shoulders!

Honestly, I don't care who comes back. I don't hate Micheal Bay, I actually enjoy how he made the Transformers organic/robotic organisms and brought a sense of "realism" to the franchise. I mean lets face it, had they gone the GEEEEEEEEEEWOOOOOOOON! route, it probably would have been unconvincing and utterly retarded. Don't get me wrong, I love my G1 continuity but come on. If people can accept the complete and utter bullshit that was Transformers Animated, then why so much hate for Bayformers? Animated took the characters and turned them into ugly, unlikable Japanimation garbage. The characters were all over the place, the story was crap...actually was there a story? All I ever saw of it was goddamn "filler" episodes. Now I'll admit, there is NO excuse for the lame humor and crappy characters like Mudflap and Skidz, but I can't say I was ever disappointed in any of the Transformers movies. It was what it was supposed to be, a story with over arching drama that slowly spoon fed us into climactic battle scenes with giant ass robots. And the movie delivered that each and every time, so again why all the hate? Aside from some of the designs I mean, cause I'll also openly admit I HATED Starscreams wedge of cheese design. But otherwise I think they all worked out fairly well.

Exactly. Though I will say I was a bit dissapointed with DOTM. I expected it to be leaps and bounds better than ROTF, but I thought it was only slightly better. DOTM had no real robot-to-robot fights like the forest battle in ROTF, and it didn't really have me guessing about what would happen, because everything was basically laid out from the beginning. And there where no parts where I actually felt the movie. Unlike in ROTF, I almost cried when Optimus died. You just don't do that! But DOTM totally made up for it with its abundance of explosions though.

When Optimus died in ROTF, I ROLLED MY EYES IN DISGUST knowing that he would only be revived by the end of the movie. Predictable crap. And as for the constant hate on Transformers Animated... the show is/was great!! The designs resulted in the toys and figures being probably the most accurate transformations, alternate modes and body proportions in a a cartoon/movie toyline. And as for the story, you NEED to watch all of the seasons as something always gets to another point. And As much as I love the movies (TF1 FTW), You would have to be a crazy lugnut inspired moron to say that they were perfect (You want perfection, go watch the Wizard of Oz). They had many "problems", whether there were some that were small to an extent (voiceless transformers), and others that "ruin" the franchise for others ("racists stereotypes", "wrong colors", etc.). (I get tired of the word ruin.) Their is a difference between preferring something else and being selfishly bias.

ANYWAY, back to the ACTUAL topic. AS I said before, I don't know what to think or say until it comes from Hasbro themselves.

Perfection, like your belief there were racist transformers and wrong colors, is subjective I'm afraid. Optimus dieing and coming back was predictable to you, a long time fan, but someone new to Transformers isn't aware of the almost traditional death/ressurection of Prime and Megatron. It's ironic you bring up selfish bias in your post since it was full of it.

Only one problem with your comment: At the time, I was only a fan of transformers for several months before I saw ROTF, if you want to call that long term. (I feel special again.) And i think you mistook my comment wrong a little. I meant to imply that OTHER people complain about racist transformers and wrong colors, not me, as i believe that on both accounts, they are false.

ReDPATH wrote:Couple things.

1. Way, way too many dollars being made to contemplate the reboot regardless of quality. If you want a reboot you have to hope the 4th movie fails miserably just like you had to hope DOTM fails miserably just like you had to hope ROTF failed miserably just like you had to hope TF 2007 would fail miserably.

All things considered. None of those things have happened. You can still put all your eggs in the basket of hoping TF4 fails miserably. All things considered the problem for the people who want to see the franchise fail under this current regime is in fact the fact that it has a fan following under its current regime. Proof? The dollars it makes. Which means the next thing you have to hope for is the casual fan stops coming which again hasn't happened yet.

The sooner they do the better short of a reboot. The fact is that the lore there has just been ignored in favour of a shallow giant robot movie instead of what it could have been.

ReDPATH wrote:2. Batman and Transformers is apples and oranges.

People naturally wanted Batman to go back to its darker roots after Forever/Robin. I don't think there was crow of people who wanted another Forever/Robin/Adam West style Batman.

Transformers doesn't have the dark lore to stand on. What it does have is better constructed humor than the toilet humor featured mostly in ROTF/DOTM. While DOTM had less of the toilet humor. When it presented itself it served to derail any significance of key scenes before or after.

I get what you're trying to say here, but honestly, I have to question how much of a long term fan you've been or how well read you are as a fan when you say this kind of thing, as the entire Marvel comics run makes your entire point about darker lore, completely moot. You sound like you haven't been exposed to it, in which case I would highly recommend rectifying that deficiency in fan knowledge- you'll well and truly thank me for it later.

ReDPATH wrote:I think if Bay could tone down the crude humor and construct it better. The movies will be fine. There are serious moments in all 3 films. The problem by and large is the ridiculous humor.

Then comes the question of does Bay actually ADD this humor in himself or are the powers that be at Paramount telling him his movies are 'too dark' and need more humor to offset. The problem with that is its hard to believe Bay would let that happen. Cause then he would look like a puppet for the studios. Which in fairness, maybe he is.

AND if he is. Then you know you need someone in the chair whose not a studio puppet.

Actually I seem to remember it being a case of it being all Bay and that the studio couldn't/wouldn't reign him in, according to Don Murphy.

Bowspearer wrote:Looks like it'll be another movei I'll be avoiding for the TF movie franchise.

I don't doubt there are some people who want an exact copy of G1, but by the same token the current franchise hasn't been much better (I've been reading the comic adaptations which thankfully avoid most of Bay's idiotice toilet humour). The problem with the designs, to use a pictorial reference to take it out of the "Geewunner vs Bayformer" usual pidgeon-holing is that in human terms they are best represented as this:



Seriously, some kind of lquid metal skin ablative sking with colour changing properties on top of the designs (think Derek Yaniger's artistic style with the Cybertronain empire TFs), instead of a forcefield, would have been much more in line with the comics while giving it a "real world" translation. Yet instead of this, it was "this looks cool" over substance.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying, but it sounds like you want alien robots to look more human by giving them some kind of color changing liquid skin? If they were doing Beast Wars that would be a good idea, but it sounds weird for robots that turn into vehicles to have a liquid coating. That's more in line with Terminator.