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Say what you will about Michael Bay!!!

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Transformers 3 is scheduled to be released on July 1st, 2011. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

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Re: Say what you will about Michael Bay!!!

Postby G1 Smoketreader » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:04 am

Motto: "Continue building from within,attack your designated target,defend everyone."
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Capt.Failure wrote:
Evil_the_Nub wrote:
shamone wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:
G1 Smoketreader wrote: How could someone making a childrens movie allow Marijuana to be taken by the main characters Mother?


Because Transformers being for children is a limit you arbitrarily impose on it.


yes imagine arbitrarily imposing that mantle on a movie based on a toyline, based on a cartoon, based on a toyline, based on a cartoon, based on a toyline for children

and then a movie that is marketed towards children, how dare you suggest that its a movie for children.

It may not be exclusively for children, but it is their target market.

Robocop, Aliens, and Terminator all had toylines and those were certainly not kid movies. The Transformers movies are marketed for general audiences, not a specific age group. That's why we have a rating system, so people will know beforehand what kind of content a movie has.


In short: the arguement that Transformers is soley for children and films/series should be developed around that doesn't have a leg to stand on.


(Just read the bold to keep it short)
If the leg is taken away, Yes.
I do wish to argue that Teenagers are still Kids. Altho laws begin providing rights to folks at age 18, the true coming of age is not and has not been observed to happen until age 21 in plenty of cultures and traditions.Do what you like with that but even the brain is not fully developed until age 21.


I don't know the English word to help me express myself. There is a Greek slang word, Provlepe,(pro-vle-PEH) meaning to foresee foreseeably, or to be foreseeably foreseeable.I believe M.Bay should have been Provlepe about the nature of the final cut of that scene.The scene itself should also have been Provlepe to him.On what grounds? On the grounds of context.On the grounds of looking after someone elses kid or at least helping them to do it on their own.On the grounds of common moral courtesy and decency.It depicts a mother ignoring everything around her as soon as she comes into contact with drugs, and being observed at her happiest in 3 films when she takes them.There is what explanation for a parent to explain? Desire. Escape. Otherwise boredom.

People have argued about the ratings of these films and what good parents should know.What about what a good director should know and think?What about what a proper toymaker should DO?.It's okay for them or is it neglect?

Governments all around the world are either making commercials themselves which educate the whole family on which rating means what, or demanding that TV stations do it to be considered worthy of their social position.Everyone walks into the cinema knowing what to expect from the rating.Even 'bad' Parents.They are expected to be provlepe on an issue.They are expected to be ready to discuss an issue.

The depiction of Sams Ma taking drugs, IMO is Ambush.It not only has no business in this film or in the story, but is inserted out of context with what else is going on.The resignation to the fact that a parent has to be confronted with it and then handle it alone is nothing other than the excercising of sociopolitical immunity.There should have at least been a provided physical (for lack of better term) handhold for the parents to start talking from.An event to SHOW to the kid saying "it stems from here", a reason for her to do that which was appropriate to the movie, justifiable to/of the thought patterns of the character and considerate of the sensory intake of the audience: a degree of cooperation in the finality of the explanation of the event from the depicters quarter.I do not feel one was provided.They (we) were just left with the depicted event on a whim to include it.

Robocop (toy line later) showed Drug use, unavoiodably (because it's part of the Mythos and therefore should not be taken out of it), as did Batman (Toyline first)(Scarecrow) and Spiderman (Toyline first)(the Venom suit).Ratchet (Toyline first) also walks into power lines, which IMO is a drug reference and depiction of drug use, albeit veiled.

Note that I am not complaining about Ratchet.

Why?
In my view, which of course is one view amongst many,Robocop (contemporary for its' Era, outdated now) simply gave Punks Nuke.At the time of filming, generic Punks, just like Zeds crew from Police Academy 2(?) had no reason to explain their motivation.They were Punks and behaved that way.There was a reason for the depiction of drug use in the story-from everything relying ultimately on Robocop to a reflection of how dangerous a (proper Human) Cops' job can be to the depiction of corporate and syndicate corruption in the upper social echelons. There is something there to tell a Kid or an adult.In short, a consequence is depicted.

Batmans Scarecrow? I am not confident that he is depicted to suffer a consequence specifically for drug use.Drug use itself, is, however, depicted here as something that causes horror, dementia, suffering, torture.There is something there for a kid to see for itself, and a handle/foothold (the suffering aspect) is provided for parents to start working/talking from.

Spiderman is depicted as very happy (but not his happiest) when he and the Venom suit adopt each other.(I personally treat it all as a vague reference to the overall issue of Drugs, like Ratchets Powerline event-it's there permanently as soon you see it, it's not if you don't).Spiderman is arguably the most powerful when in the Venom suit.I wouldn't say there is a depicted consequence in the graspable, material package, but he goes on to lose things all over the place, from the adherence to the last advice of his Uncle (basically treasure) to Mary Jane to whetever anyone else would list.

Ratchet walks into Power lines accidentally.That's a good enough motivation for me to be happy with it.In actuality the observation that a TF would do that is more realistic than not (tho sensors should have detected the lines).His (and also "our" good friend, Ironhide, provides some degree of consequence through his unenthused response).Furthermore it is established that standard electricity doesn't really have the effect of a weapon on TFs.Absolutely fine for me.It gives more than one result than furthers the story and Ironhides attitude is a good enough consequence to move along with.

Why I brought up Sams Mum is this: Sam Witwicky is the Vessel for each TF viewer to bring himself into the story.He is there to be identified with.His family could have been a broken one-this has been done before (but usually with consolidation at the end).Some would say it is a breaking one.
Sams' Parents are a depiction of contemporary parents.No argument.The film had to somehow be tweaked away from just small child Audiences.No Argument.Even Disney films have DISGUISED adult dialogue or dialect here and there.Therefore, it is both appropriate to accept adult references in a Kids film and a contemporary art both to insert and to notice adult entertainment in a kids' flick.As such, it should be appreciated as any other Art will be.No argument.
In the specific case of Sams Mum, she is depicted as being her happiest (IMO) when on the stuff.Others have the right to disagree, but I feel she is not even happier when her own son is 'ressurected' (tho in all fairness, she wisens up as a character when she has to let go of Sam-I see and acknowledge that story arc).She defends that stuff against the Father figure,(and I'm not importing chauvanism here but family unity,please acknowledge) has no character motivation to take it in order to help herself complete the adventure in some boosted way and leaves the Parent (of the kid watching the show), In my Opinion, Ambushed.Why should the parent have walked in expecting to have to deal with the specific portrayal as it stands?

Going beyond the 'little' kid to the teenager: The whole event just reminds the highschooler what to look for in Uni.This was the second most watched movie in the world when it was released, I believe.


In short: The rating is a flimsy excuse for the decision to leave everyone out on a branch when justifying Sams Ma.She didn't NEED the cookies.She WANTED them.NOBODY forced her but she took them basically in front of her family.The moviegoers training (to know ratings)is a flimsy excuse for the context, content and message of said event to be left uncriticized.It is OUTSIDE of provlepe expectations for the rating to be left unable to explain Sams Mas actions in a positive way without being derogatory towards either her character profile or else the moviemakers,which is unfair to actual mothers in her position. One man refused to (bother) adjust(ing) a situation exposed to billions (after DVD watching also) just because.Nobody stopped him.He didn't try to stop himself.He didn't give a.
Within context of my first post: He didn't want to tone it down.He doesn't know how and, doesn't care how, and he knows it's no skin off his back anyway so he won't search how, because he never did this for YOU.Next to what he contributed, he caused a lot of damage. Therefore, altho TFs were going to be brought to life for us anyway, they were brought to life at a great cost.The fandom alone is in partisan war over how to justify a man who does not justify himself.Was it worth it? Hasbro had a list of 20-odd Autobots and 12-odd Deceps from G1 alone, ready to go,of which 5 vs 6 were originally marketed in TF1.Was that worth it? The Kids could have had a toy who was a theoretician (Skids) who instead became a written off no-show.Was that worth it?
Furthermore, there IS a consequence to everything we do-we just pay less attention to the good consequences and the invisible ones.


DISCLAIMER: I have been away and will be away again for a long while.I will not be present to continue contributing to this conversation so i'm basically out of whatever direction it takes and what new points will be raised.After discussing all this with my wife and some friends, we decided it would be a good deed to leave this counter-opinion posted anyway for younguns to see both sides.Point being I'm not trying to ride a High horse at other posters expense or stand on their shoulders.Everyone is right.We figured if we honestly care about this issue then leaving behind some visibly guarded advice on our take would be a good deed.I repeat that this doesn't mean the rest of the opinions are wrong.That's all.Keep having fun, Gang.
"Everyone has a hobby.Even people who say they don't still have one under another name.If we're sick,injured, we still go to it and get down to see how it is.If it needs something, we bring it,make sure the attention is perfect.It exercises our care and protection and gives us back philosophies.It's a living thing to us,and is the most perfect way to teach a young person how to be towards a living thing. It's something that should never be taken away."
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Re: Say what you will about Michael Bay!!!

Postby TylerDante69 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:48 am

So the U.S. Government found a giant robot on the moon and yet Sector 7, the organization that founded Megatron decades ago and reverse engineered him to make all the tech we use today, HAD NO IDEA about the moon secrets!! Agent Simmons had no clue!!

It's a secret that a few people in the government wants NO ONE TO KNOW....EVEN the experts of Tranformers...Sector 7.


Well if Bay can force the audience to believe that the Government can cover up the LA Giant Robot Battle with thousands of witnesses then I guess he can force this one too.
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Re: Say what you will about Michael Bay!!!

Postby Burn » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:17 am

TylerDante69 wrote:Well if Bay can force the audience to believe that the Government can cover up the LA Giant Robot Battle with thousands of witnesses then I guess he can force this one too.


Bay didn't write the script.

Not sure why people keep thinking he did ...
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Re: Say what you will about Michael Bay!!!

Postby TylerDante69 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:00 am

Well i know Orci wrote it....but Bay and Spielberg were equally responsible for overseeing it.

They read the script and story and still approved it.


Since this is a Michael Bay film....he will be the poster boy and figurehead taking the blame even though it was Orci who was the one who did not do his homework.
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Re: Say what you will about Michael Bay!!!

Postby Counterpunch » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:04 am

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I'll say, I liked Michael Bay's movies.

Haters gonna' hate but I make wine from tears.
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Re: Say what you will about Michael Bay!!!

Postby vegetacron » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:44 am

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At least in Revenge of the Fallen we never had Seaspray falling in love with mermaids.


^ This. Hey, Mermaids are hawt!
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Re: Say what you will about Michael Bay!!!

Postby Screamfleet » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:14 am

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Burn wrote:
TylerDante69 wrote:Well if Bay can force the audience to believe that the Government can cover up the LA Giant Robot Battle with thousands of witnesses then I guess he can force this one too.


Bay didn't write the script.

Not sure why people keep thinking he did ...


If he had an issue with the script, he could have demanded a rewrite.
Thing is, he couldn't during certain points of ROTF, cause of the strike. It's rumored, he had a hand in story elements of ROTF. As they filmed without a script, and have said so several times. So, he had to invent something for himself to film. He's not credited as such, as it would in a way mean he was a scab.
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Re: Say what you will about Michael Bay!!!

Postby Phategod1 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:04 pm

vegetacron wrote:Yes, Micheal Bay is an absolute badass for creating a set of movies for the '2000s generation' that has brought in uber amounts of money to the franchise and has made all sorts of good G1 stuff happen in the background. For that, i would like to dry hump his leg. The man has revitalized the franchise and opened the doors with opportunities for us older G1 fans, inadvertently. He is a master, like no other.

-BUT- (Please do not read past this point if you are a bayformer fan)

I hate the man for how crappy the movies were and believe me, they could have been done without the 80s "camp" that you are describing up there and still 'smoked' MB's crapfest. The art style is about a 50/50 for me. I like it some days and others i absolutely hate it. I think the art style could have been easily forgiven if he would have created an epic story telling adventure here, that made sense. But he sold a "Transformers meets Bad Boys meets Pearl Harbor" and for that, i hope he "diaf", even tho im not mean enough to light the match. But ya know what really jumps in my god damn jimmies and just **** launches me into a near frenzy of hatred that i can't bear to unleash on any nearby bayformer fan? Is that all these **** morons, like Spielberg keep saying what a great sotryteller Micheal Bay is. This guy couldn't tell a story if his life depended on it and here he is, shittin up my god damn hobby with his piss poor skill at makin movies.


Amen on the inviso text
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