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Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby knightedfeline » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:45 pm

How would setting limits be unfair? The scalper can still do what he wants, but this way doesn't effect the market in his territory.

If we've got a person that is scalping as we have defined, or a person that scalps, all it means is that he's got to come back the next day. This actually gives people a chance to get the item for their kid and for themselves. It would mean a scalper would actually have to work. How is this bad?
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby dinogeist » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:50 pm

knightedfeline wrote:How would setting limits be unfair? The scalper can still do what he wants, but this way doesn't effect the market in his territory.

If we've got a person that is scalping as we have defined, or a person that scalps, all it means is that he's got to come back the next day. This actually gives people a chance to get the item for their kid and for themselves. It would mean a scalper would actually have to work. How is this bad?


I don't care enough about this thread anymore to continue it any further.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby F Prime » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:13 pm

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deathy wrote:
knightedfeline wrote:How would setting limits be unfair? The scalper can still do what he wants, but this way doesn't effect the market in his territory.

If we've got a person that is scalping as we have defined, or a person that scalps, all it means is that he's got to come back the next day. This actually gives people a chance to get the item for their kid and for themselves. It would mean a scalper would actually have to work. How is this bad?


I don't care enough about this thread anymore to continue it any further.


You said that before your last two posts. :)

But, playful kidding aside, I don't see a problem with the notion of restrictions. However, I don't think it would ever happen.

There is no impetus for anyone on the selling side to do this...they would rather see their product sold, to whomever, rather than warming shelves out of the interest of fairness.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby knightedfeline » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:14 am

If there were enough people, to write in and tell the companies, they'd listen.

We're a fanbase. That's always important to a company. If we band together on an issue, they will listen. No the items wouldn't fly off the shelf, but they're items that are going to sell anyway. The difference being instead of selling all at one time, they sell them throughout the day. Gee, that's a big difference isn't it?

Fairness is part of being American. At least it used to be.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby F Prime » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:26 am

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knightedfeline wrote:If there were enough people, to write in and tell the companies, they'd listen. We're a fanbase. That's always important to a company. If we band together on an issue, they will listen.


I see your point...I would love to agree, but I am on the fence about how they would act.

knighted feline wrote:No the items wouldn't fly off the shelf, but they're items that are going to sell anyway. The difference being instead of selling all at one time, they sell them throughout the day. Gee, that's a big difference isn't it?


No need to get snarky. :) I see your point, I am just saying that they think with their capital. There is a chance that the toys wouldn't all sell. If scalpers make up a large enough base and they aren't interested in returning day after day to buy them all up the toys may shelf-warm in some areas.

I am not saying that would happen..I have no idea. I am just tossing out possibilities that the companies may consider.

knighted feline wrote: Fairness is part of being American. At least it used to be.


Now you sound like a socialist. :)

Unfortunately, fairness and succeeding in a capitalistic market are often, but not always, at odds with each other. :(

This makes Mister Terrific cry. But what does he know...he's only third smartest. :)

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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby knightedfeline » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:43 am

F Prime wrote:I see your point...I would love to agree, but I am on the fence about how they would act.


I'd love for you to elaborate on your point, please?

F Prime wrote:No need to get snarky. :) I see your point, I am just saying that they think with their capital. There is a chance that the toys wouldn't all sell. If scalpers make up a large enough base and they aren't interested in returning day after day to buy them all up the toys may shelf-warm in some areas.


Honestly, the only toys I see shelf warm are the ones no one wants. Ones like the excessive amount of movie Primes for DOTM, or ones they make too many of. And in all fairness, those are the kind that always self warm.

F Prime wrote:Now you sound like a socialist. :)


Well, if making certain that everyone gets a chance at the American dream, if making certain that the majority of this nation gets it's voice heard over the ruling class, if that means I stand up for people's right to make choices for themselves, and it means standing up against those who would tell me what I can and can not do makes me a socialist, then I'm a socialist, doc. posting.php?mode=quote&f=27&p=1293115#

F Prime wrote:Unfortunately, fairness and succeeding in a capitalistic market are often, but not always, at odds with each other. :(


Not always. Capitalists want their products bought by everyone, not just one small group. They make more money that way. It's the market that determines who can and can not. Thing is the capitalism in the US is screwed up because not enough are following the market and what it wants. The market has been saying for twenty years, faster, more fuel efficient, safer cars, but the big companies have been selling bigger, slower, gas guzzling cars and lost their share of the market to Toyota, Kia, and Hundai. They produced SUVs with the belief that that's what American's wanted, and yet they kept losing ground to foreign competitors. The people that bought the SUVs were status seeking people and not the majority of the market. There are many examples of this in the US market, and part of is because we've cut back on the regulation that the market needed and because there's too many people that run these corporations that think, "We tell them what they want," which is communism.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby F Prime » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:04 pm

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knightedfeline wrote:
F Prime wrote:I see your point...I would love to agree, but I am on the fence about how they would act.


I'd love for you to elaborate on your point, please?


I think my main point was elaborated on later...I will comment below.

knighted feline wrote:
F Prime wrote:I see your point, I am just saying that they think with their capital. There is a chance that the toys wouldn't all sell. If scalpers make up a large enough base and they aren't interested in returning day after day to buy them all up the toys may shelf-warm in some areas.


Honestly, the only toys I see shelf warm are the ones no one wants. Ones like the excessive amount of movie Primes for DOTM, or ones they make too many of. And in all fairness, those are the kind that always self warm.



Agreed, with the current set-up. However, this is with scalpers buying multiple copies of certain figures and I am couching this conversation purely in terms of figures that are difficult to find and, hence, are off the shelves. I have no idea what would happen if things were limited (I want to be clear about that). However, in this context it doesn't seem like more figures would be sold.

knighted feline wrote:
F Prime wrote:Now you sound like a socialist. :)


Well, if making certain that everyone gets a chance at the American dream, if making certain that the majority of this nation gets it's voice heard over the ruling class, if that means I stand up for people's right to make choices for themselves, and it means standing up against those who would tell me what I can and can not do makes me a socialist, then I'm a socialist, doc. posting.php?mode=quote&f=27&p=1293115#


Sorry, that was just a joke, not a serious comment. I am a self-identified socialist myself. It was not meant to spark a debate regarding socialism and whether you really are one or not.

I often make that comment when someone says everyone deserves a fair chance. :)

knighted feline wrote:
F Prime wrote:Unfortunately, fairness and succeeding in a capitalistic market are often, but not always, at odds with each other. :(


Not always. Capitalists want their products bought by everyone, not just one small group. They make more money that way. It's the market that determines who can and can not. Thing is the capitalism in the US is screwed up because not enough are following the market and what it wants. The market has been saying for twenty years, faster, more fuel efficient, safer cars, but the big companies have been selling bigger, slower, gas guzzling cars and lost their share of the market to Toyota, Kia, and Hundai. They produced SUVs with the belief that that's what American's wanted, and yet they kept losing ground to foreign competitors. The people that bought the SUVs were status seeking people and not the majority of the market. There are many examples of this in the US market, and part of is because we've cut back on the regulation that the market needed and because there's too many people that run these corporations that think, "We tell them what they want," which is communism.


I know not always...hence my saying often, but not always. I understand that in many instances capitalists want a larger audience and not a smaller, but in this case it seems like we are targeting figures that are already selling out completely (hence the issue with being hard-to-find). So, here, it doesn't seem like getting a broader audience would increase sales.

I agree re: cars, btw. I have been saying that for years. Not sure I agree that telling them what to think is communism...it may be a consequence of certain implementation schemes for communism...but that is a different debate, and one for which I am poorly prepared/capable. :)

I guess my main point is that we seem to be discussing an issue where the items are already at "maximum sales", so changing the system won't increase sales. From a money-making point of view there is nothing to be gained from changing the set up.

At least, that is how I see it...I don't often think in terms of marketing and I know woefully little about business so I could easily be missing many, many things.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby dinogeist » Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:40 pm

Knightedfeline,No one cares enough about scalpers to write letters to their elected officials. even if they cared they wouldn't waste their time doing so because they know the end result would result in nothing & their spare time would be wasted.

Scalping toys isn't illegial,so why are we making such a big fuss over it? their are far worse things going on in this world then scalping toys.

No one cares enough about scalping to march down To the nations capital nor write our elected officials letters to create anti-scalping laws.

Their are more transformers fans selling TF toys for profit than you realize. like some botcon attendees & club members.

I've personally sold a few retail TF toys for profit on the secondary market. Last year I sold 3 Transformers animated Rodimus Minors for profit. This year I sold 6 TRU Hasbro MP Rodimus Prime toys for profit. I tried selling a RTS Deep dive for profit but no one wanted it,so I returned it & got my money back.

I went to the TRU Facebook page,then printed out the 20% off on all items times 6 & only paid $47.99 for my hasbro TRU Rodimus primes. I sold them all for around $67 to $81.

I recently ordered 2 Amazon.com Unicron's,I might keep one or sell both for profit. my plan here is to sell my misb armada unicron & sell these 2 amazon unicron's,so I can use the profit money to get myself the takara 2010 unicron.

The TRU.com web page offers fee shipping for items over $75. So in order to get this free shipping. I had to buy 4 DOTM $29.99 HA Roadbusters. I sold 2 on the secondary market & the buyers paid around $34 each. I kept 2,one to keep Misb & the other to open up & display.
I didn't care if I made a profit or not as long as I got my money back & my ebay & paypal fees also got paid.

I sold all 6 Hasbro MP Rodimus Prime toys to help pay for the the one I bought for myself & I was keeping. I also used the profit money to help pay for my gas. because these TRU stores of mine are 50 miles away round trip.

I don't see the problem in selling toys for a profit if the demand is their. I'm already at the store,so I might as well grab a few extra to sell for profit. to help pay for my gas,time & my own copy of the item I plan to keep & i'm scalping.

I use to be anti-scalping but now I just don't care anymore. instead of complaining about the scalpers,i've joined them.

I use to get all upset & bent out of shape about not being able to get the botcon exclusive toys. because I couldn't afford to pay double or tripple price on the secondary market.

Now instead of getting upset about the botcon scalpers,I realize their only toys & MORE IMPORTANTLY THEIR JUST REPAINTS & not new molds.

I'm sorry,It's first come first serve. if someone if faster than someone else getting to the store. or if someone does his research a bit better like calling the stores to find out when trucks get delivered. or like looking at sightings on TF sites to guess when his store might receive the item. THEN that person who was faster & did more researh deserves as many toys he feels like buying that day.

If someone arrives last at the store & does less research then he gets what's currently left at the store.

Those botcon scalpers put in a lot of work getting those convention toys. like paying for travel exspenes, like gas or a airplane flight ticket. hotel fees,food exspenses,time & energy. those botcon scalpers deserve as many convention toys TFCC allows them to grab. if others are not willing to do the same then they have the option of not buying or paying profit prices for the botcon items. If TFCC is allowing this to happen & giving their blessing. then the attendees buying multiples convention exclusives are doing no wrong.

Scalpers are not going to go away. no amount of angry fan threads is going to scare them away nor make them have a change of heart. because their not doing anything illegial. if it's okay for wall street to buy stocks at a low price then sell stock at a high price. it's okay for fans to buy toys at a low price & sell them at a high price.

These fan rage threads accomplish Zero. just because some people are scalpers or casual low level scalpers it doesn't mean they deserve to be mocked or deserve to treated differently. everyone deserves to be treated fairly here in the fandom. wanting laws put on scalers is wrong & against most countries people's rights acts. everyone deserves to get treated equally & fairly.

Sorry,created anti-scalpers laws & restrictions just so others can get toys or whatever is cruel & against the laws of most countries. what most are basically asking to create is laws to treat others they don't like like scalpers,to get treated inferior or less of a person.

FWIW,Some Target stores in America have taken it upon themselves to treat toy collectors more inferior than regular parents & kids. some target stores have managers that train their employees to recognize a collector & deny him service. like looking for a item in the back stock room or answering his questions in a polite professional detailed manner. THESE TARGET STORES THINK ALL COLLECTORS ARE SCALPERS.
These target stores don't know how to seperate the two categories of collector & scalper.

I saw a few threads on the internet last month about Target store exclusive leadfoot. I did my home work,I looked at the sightings threads & saw dozens of fans went to the store & got leadfoot. I went to the target web site & entered in the ITEM number & it revealed my 4 local stores had leadfoot in stock. I went to my local starget store & the magnager & employees denied me service because they were anti-collector & refused to sell me the item.

I had to call the target consumer affair phone number & report all the managers & employees at my local target that were denying me service & treating me inferior to others. just because I'm OVER 18 years of age & i'm a collector doesn't give store managers nor employees the right to discriminate against me nor treat me like less of a person than others.

The end situation was the taget consumer affair guy caught the manager in a lie & told me he was in the wrong & a team of corporate target big bosses were going to my local target to investigate why they took it upon themselves to discrimate against collectors.

The target consumer affair person on the phone had to call another target & have them put the item on hold for me at customer service. I got my item at the other store but had to travel 20 miles one way & 40 miles round trip in order to get the item.

NO,before anyone asks or thinks,I had ZERO plans on wanting to sell leadfoot for profit. I wanted it for my collection & that was it.

Some target stores discrimate against collectors for various reasonas like as follows: (1) they think adults rob/steal away the kids childhoods. because they think collectors buy up all the toys & kids grow up faster & more angry because they couldn't find their desired toys on store shelves. (2) some target stores have managers & employess going anti-collector & go out of their way to refuse collectors service. refuse collectors proper polite & detailed customer service. Most store mangers/employees who go anti-collector think all collectors are scalpers & their is no difference.

Does anyone who is a fan/collector & not a scalper. want anti scalper laws be put in place. like restictions on how many items you can buy that day or being treated inferior or getting discrimate treatment or getting less customer service. Most know target can't properly seperate scalpers from collectors. so who's to say other stores will receive better training nor care to seperate a collector from a scalper.

What if anti-scalper laws were created. like restrictions on items or discrimate policies. what if you weren't a scalper & felt like buying 2 of the item you like,one to keep misb & the other to put on a display shelf. would it be fair for you to have to return the next day or week or when ever your allowed to return under the anti-scalper laws. what if you live 40 miles away round trip from the store. would it be fair to ask you to return another time & waste all that gas,time & energy. If your not a scalper how would you as a collector who doesn't scalp toys feel like getting treated like as scalper under the new anti-scalper laws,because managers & employees don't believe your a collector & not a scalper. what if the anti scalper laws allowed managers/employees to kick out scalpers from the store because they raised their voice a bit too high,what if you were a collector & got confused for a scalper? how exactly would you prove your a collector & not a scalper? would it be worth you paying lawyer fees & such?
ALL THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IF THEIR WERE NO ANTI-SCALPERS LAWS CREATED.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby knightedfeline » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:01 pm

First I never said anything about Anti-Scalping laws. I said, "Contact Businesses." All I'm looking for is a little customer Service.

Secondly, I said that scalping *may be* illegal depending on the state. If I'm not mistaken on this, my business allows that only 25 units be sold per month or a certain amount of money to be transacted to be classified as a business. It changes depending on the state.

The worst example of scalping I have seen was in '93 at a convention. Dealers were given 20 comics of a pre-release as part of their admission cost. There were about 1000 comics that were going to be sold to fans. When time came to sell to the fans, they were sold out in about 2hrs. The line had been up since 6AM and about 12 people bought the vast majority of the comics. Working as with a dealer at the time, I found out quickly that those twelve people had been hired by dealers to get the comics. The fans found out before the convention was over and it created a huge mess.

Also people put aside money for the conventions, so their money is available and accessible to make these big purchases. Basically they're not out any money, they've put into it.

Also businesses that go own brick and mortar stores that are basically self paying permanent storage facilities. These business also there to give credibility, and brand recognition for the owner. A smart businessman makes far more at a convention than he ever spends out. There are also a few tricks that stores have started doing, like getting their employees to get individual ebay or whatever accounts and have them say stuff like, "I'm getting rid of my collection," and "I don't know anything about these toys," and then sell the merchandise that way.

Okay, now no longer playing Devil's Advocate for anti-scalpers I've got to clarify something on a personal note. You actually bought 6 RPs and sold them to cover the price for one? Are you nuts? Not only that but you did research to find out this stuff? Are you kidding me?
Look I'm the kind of collector that gets one or two things a month and that's it. Doing things that way I've managed to build myself a nice little collection. If it's not in the budget I don't get it. I'm even the kind that doesn't mind spending time to rebuild a figure. I've spent 19 years doing that for just one. To me that's what makes this such a fun hobby.
I'm just saying though that all that time you spent researching, chasing down and buying these figures you could have been doing ANYTHING else. Do you realize you're not even covering your overhead? Do you realize the money and resources you wasted just to do that? Look at it this way, you're not getting paid for your research time, your driving time or the time it takes to complain to the company. Now I could understand if you've got a day set aside to do all that running, or if you happen to be in the area, but that forty miles that's what about an hour of time you could have been doing, I don't know, anything else? All that time you spent researching, searching, buying, driving you could have been doing anything else. (If it was me I'd rather be biking, watching cool toons, talking with my lady. Maybe that's just me.)
A person whose sole business is doing this I could understand, but to just do this to cover your cost for one figure doesn't make sense. You lose money even if you sell them all just to cover for the cost of gas. Look at it this way; you're not getting paid for your research, searching, buying, driving and prepping for the the net sale. I think that's why some scalpers charge so much is they're actually covering their costs for all the extra work. If you just add up all that time and multiply that by minimum wage, you'll see what I mean. In the time that you spent doing all of that, you could have worked a 5-15hr job that would have paid you more, and more than covered the cost of the one Rodimus you bought. I'm sorry, but this is the one part about scalping I just don't understand. Maybe I'm naive.

Also, I'm sorry you had to deal with Target in that way. I personally boycott them because they support anti-gay organizations.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby dinogeist » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:28 am

knightedfeline wrote:First I never said anything about Anti-Scalping laws. I said, "Contact Businesses." All I'm looking for is a little customer Service.


You clearly said via your replies in this thread. you wanted the stores & goverment to enact scalper laws. that would make it harder for scalpers or people to buy more than one item per day. then you gave a snarky comment about scalpers having to do more work like keep comming back day after day to stock up on the item. these are clearly anti scalper laws & anti-scalper comments you wrote.

knightedfeline wrote:
Secondly, I said that scalping *may be* illegal depending on the state. If I'm not mistaken on this, my business allows that only 25 units be sold per month or a certain amount of money to be transacted to be classified as a business. It changes depending on the state.
.


But why should scalping be illegial at ALL?? why should others be treated inferior or less of a person. all because you & others don't like what they do or who they are.

knightedfeline wrote:The worst example of scalping I have seen was in '93 at a convention. Dealers were given 20 comics of a pre-release as part of their admission cost. There were about 1000 comics that were going to be sold to fans. When time came to sell to the fans, they were sold out in about 2hrs. The line had been up since 6AM and about 12 people bought the vast majority of the comics. Working as with a dealer at the time, I found out quickly that those twelve people had been hired by dealers to get the comics. The fans found out before the convention was over and it created a huge mess.


These dealers did no wrong,they were given 20 comics for free by the convention organizers. since their was no limit put in place by the convention owners. the 12 buyers did nothing wrong,nor did they do anything illegial.

knightedfeline wrote:Also people put aside money for the conventions, so their money is available and accessible to make these big purchases. Basically they're not out any money, they've put into it.

Also businesses that go own brick and mortar stores that are basically self paying permanent storage facilities. These business also there to give credibility, and brand recognition for the owner. A smart businessman makes far more at a convention than he ever spends out. There are also a few tricks that stores have started doing, like getting their employees to get individual ebay or whatever accounts and have them say stuff like, "I'm getting rid of my collection," and "I don't know anything about these toys," and then sell the merchandise that way. .


I don't understand what your trying to say here in these 2 paragraphs.so well just move on along to other paragraphs in your reply.

knightedfeline wrote:Okay, now no longer playing Devil's Advocate for anti-scalpers I've got to clarify something on a personal note. You actually bought 6 RPs and sold them to cover the price for one? Are you nuts? Not only that but you did research to find out this stuff? Are you kidding me?


Please don't insult me by calling me "NUTS". I don't mind debatting with on-line TF fans as long as things are kept civial,respectful & polite.

I needed to do the research anyways because I was interested in getting one Hasbro TRU Rodimus Prime for my personal collection to keep.

what's wrong with doing research like checking out sightings threads. calling the TRU store each week to find out if the item was in stock & asking what day the trucks arrive. I was prepared & it paid off as I got my item before others beat me to the punch.

you clearly didn't do any research & thus you don't own a TRU Hasbro MP Rodimus Prime toy yet.

What I did with the profits of the multiples of toys I sell is none of your business. as long as it paid for my gas & Paid for my free rodimus,I'm satisfied.

knightedfeline wrote: Look I'm the kind of collector that gets one or two things a month and that's it. Doing things that way I've managed to build myself a nice little collection. If it's not in the budget I don't get it.


I only bought 5 TF toys this year within a 10 month time frame. Since it's not illegial to scalp toys in order to get yourself a free toy with the profits. I did no wrong nor did others who do the same thing.

knightedfeline wrote:I'm even the kind that doesn't mind spending time to rebuild a figure. I've spent 19 years doing that for just one. To me that's what makes this such a fun hobby..


I'm only 27 years old & lack the patience & desire to do this. I would have had to start when I was 8 years old to do this.

knightedfeline wrote:I'm just saying though that all that time you spent researching, chasing down and buying these figures you could have been doing ANYTHING else.


I had to do the research anyways to get the one figure for my personal collection. I got the other 6 Because I was in the store anyways.

un-like yourself you did no research thus you still don't own a Hasbro TRU Rodimus Prime toy. instead your using your valuable spare time replying to threads complaining that scalpers & others cleaned out your stores of the item you were looking for.

It would have been far more efficent to spend 5 hours of your valuable spare time to do the research before the toy hit your stores. INSTEAD YOUR NOW using THAT 5+ HOURS RESEARCH TIME replying in threads about why you dis-like scalpers & you want anti-scalpers laws in place. so the scalpers don't clean out your stores of a item you like.

knightedfeline wrote:Do you realize you're not even covering your overhead? Do you realize the money and resources you wasted just to do that? Look at it this way, you're not getting paid for your research time, your driving time or the time it takes to complain to the company. Now I could understand if you've got a day set aside to do all that running, or if you happen to be in the area, but that forty miles that's what about an hour of time you could have been doing, I don't know, anything else? All that time you spent researching, searching, buying, driving you could have been doing anything else. (If it was me I'd rather be biking, watching cool toons, talking with my lady. Maybe that's just me.)


Do you realize you spent hours/days/weeks,complaining about scalpers cleaning out your store on the internet. you could have transferred that time into research instead of complaining.

I work a 50+hours work week at UPS. When I do toy hunts its either before work or after work or on my lunch hour or my two 15 minute breaks. I have plenty of time to spend with my family & friends as I do toy hunts on my free time at work.

AGAIN,Your making fun of me wasting 5 hours of my spare time doing the research to get my Hasbro TRU Rodimus toy. we'll guess what at least I bought the toy & have it.

You basically chose the oppossite to do no research,get no toy. complain for hours on the internet afterwards that the scalpers cleaned out your stores. at the very least my wasted time got me the toy.

knightedfeline wrote:A person whose sole business is doing this I could understand, but to just do this to cover your cost for one figure doesn't make sense. You lose money even if you sell them all just to cover for the cost of gas.


So now your making fun of me & others for not being full fledged 100% scalpers? so now it's wrong to be low level & we need to be higher level. please mind your own business what others do in their private lives.

AGAIN,I needed to do the research & waste time+gas going to the store buying the one MP Rodimus,I needed for my collection. So while I was their,I bought 6 more to make the profits help pay for my gas & get my toy for free.

I made $120 in profits from selling all 6 Hasbro TRU Rosimus prime toys. because I also went to the TRU.com facebook page & printed out 6 20% off coupons. The $120 paid for my free toy,my gas & all my sales taxes,ebay fees & paypal fees. I also got some money left over.

knightedfeline wrote:Look at it this way; you're not getting paid for your research, searching, buying, driving and prepping for the the net sale.


If given the option,I'd chose option #1. I'd rather do the 5+hours of research & get the item before others beat me to the punch. Rather than chosing the 2nd option you've clearly chosen,do no research,get no item & waste 5+hours of your valuable time complaining all over the internet scalpers beat you to the punch & you want anti-scalpers laws created by either the goverment,states or created by stores.

At some point you clearly wasted gas & time driving to the store also. only to find out that the scalpers cleaned out the stores of the item you wanted.

At the very least all my wasted gas+time,got me the toy. as I did the research & kept calling the store & knew the item was in stock before I drove to the store.

knightedfeline wrote:I think that's why some scalpers charge so much is they're actually covering their costs for all the extra work. .


these scalpers don't know you,their not a family member of personal friend. so it's given they'd want to be re-imbursed for their time+gas+ebay fees+paypal transcaction fees,box & bubble wrap fees.

knightedfeline wrote:If you just add up all that time and multiply that by minimum wage, you'll see what I mean. In the time that you spent doing all of that, you could have worked a 5-15hr job that would have paid you more, and more than covered the cost of the one Rodimus you bought. I'm sorry, but this is the one part about scalping I just don't understand. Maybe I'm naive.


I make over $25 per hours being a UPS package car driver. I don't know what your trying to imply but I'm not un-employed.please lets try to discuss the topics in the thread. without going off topic & trying to discuss or insult people's personal lives.

AGAIN,ME & YOU,chose to do two totally different options with our 5+hours worth of spare casual time. I chose option one,which was doing the research,calling the stores to find out what day the trucks arrived. calling the stores everyday to find out if the item was in stock. using the sightings section to guess when the item would arrive at my store. my research paid off as I went to the store & got a hasbro TRU MP Rodimus toy in my personal collection.

You chose option two,which involved no research & then complaining for 5+hours of your spare valuable time on the internet. that scalpers cleaned out your store & wanting anti-scalpers laws put in place by the goverment,states or by the stores. this 2nd option has no toy as others who did the research got the toys.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby donnie_707 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:26 am

well......atleast we now know who NOT to buy from(--->points at deathy). seriously deathy.....you need a new hobby(or atleast a new way of making money lol). put it this way. i flip cars on the side. the last car I sold will be able to get me ALL the TFC hercules figures(2 of each if i so choose). collecting TFs is a hobby for me. theres really no SHORT term way to make a good amount of money.(unless fansproject makes more add-ons for that ugly toy that no one wanted but you bought anyways*bruticus im lookin at you*) youre spending all that time scalping just to be able to pay for ONE MP rodimus? :BANG_HEAD: i just dont get scalpers sometimes....
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby dinogeist » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:57 am

donnie_707 wrote:well......atleast we now know who NOT to buy from(--->points at deathy). seriously deathy.....you need a new hobby(or atleast a new way of making money lol). put it this way. i flip cars on the side. the last car I sold will be able to get me ALL the TFC hercules figures(2 of each if i so choose). collecting TFs is a hobby for me. theres really no SHORT term way to make a good amount of money.(unless fansproject makes more add-ons for that ugly toy that no one wanted but you bought anyways*bruticus im lookin at you*) youre spending all that time scalping just to be able to pay for ONE MP rodimus? :BANG_HEAD: i just dont get scalpers sometimes....


So your against toy scalpers because they buy low & sell high.

but it's okay for you to buy cars low & sell them high?

please mind your own business of what I & others do in our personal lives.

I'm here to discuss the TF related topics. not go off-topic & delve into our private lives.

please stop attacking & insulting me based of what you think I do in my private life. you don't even know me & your making assumptions & gueeses on what I do in my personal life. then your taking it a step further by belieiving all your guesses/assumptions & mocking/insulting me in my private/personal life.

I don't care you flip cars on the side for profit. as this is off topic & i'm here on a transformers message board to discuss transformers related discussion.

please,stop the insults,I haven't insulted you & never will. because I read the seibertron.com board rules & I will try my hardest to obey all the rules. I will also try my hardest to treat every seibertron member with 100% respect.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby knightedfeline » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:17 am

Okay, first of all this has gotten out of hand and if anyone knows deathy tell him I DON'T KNOW ANY WHO DONNIE IS! I know he's blocked me, but I'm going to write this in case a friend of his talks to him and let's him know I'm not this Donnie person. Knighted Feline is who I am and that's it. Just check out me DA site http://knighted-feline.deviantart.com

To me this is and has been a friendly discussion. I looked at this as a bunch of pals getting together and discussing something. I don't look at this as a meeting of professional collectors being a bunch of a-holes and elitists. Tell him also, to read more closely to what people write and stop projecting what he thinks others are saying on to what is actually said.

deathy wrote:
knightedfeline wrote:First I never said anything about Anti-Scalping laws. I said, "Contact Businesses." All I'm looking for is a little customer Service.


You clearly said via your replies in this thread. you wanted the stores & goverment to enact scalper laws. that would make it harder for scalpers or people to buy more than one item per day. then you gave a snarky comment about scalpers having to do more work like keep comming back day after day to stock up on the item. these are clearly anti scalper laws & anti-scalper comments you wrote.


Government has no business in this. I never said anything of the sort. Read thoroughly and don't skim the page.

deathy wrote:
knightedfeline wrote:
Secondly, I said that scalping *may be* illegal depending on the state. If I'm not mistaken on this, my business allows that only 25 units be sold per month or a certain amount of money to be transacted to be classified as a business. It changes depending on the state.
.


But why should scalping be illegial at ALL?? why should others be treated inferior or less of a person. all because you & others don't like what they do or who they are.


Because it's operating a business without a licence. It's also known as tax fraud. I was trying to look out for the people who scalp.

deathy wrote:
knightedfeline wrote:The worst example of scalping I have seen was in '93 at a convention. Dealers were given 20 comics of a pre-release as part of their admission cost. There were about 1000 comics that were going to be sold to fans. When time came to sell to the fans, they were sold out in about 2hrs. The line had been up since 6AM and about 12 people bought the vast majority of the comics. Working as with a dealer at the time, I found out quickly that those twelve people had been hired by dealers to get the comics. The fans found out before the convention was over and it created a huge mess.


These dealers did no wrong,they were given 20 comics for free by the convention organizers. since their was no limit put in place by the convention owners. the 12 buyers did nothing wrong,nor did they do anything illegial.


Actually it was wrong, because the dealers were asked to not get any more of the comics. (sorry I left out that detail, but I thought that it was implied with the fact that the dealers were already given some that they weren't allowed to sell at the convention.) Please don't confuse morals and ethics.

deathy wrote:
knightedfeline wrote:Also people put aside money for the conventions, so their money is available and accessible to make these big purchases. Basically they're not out any money, they've put into it.

Also businesses that go own brick and mortar stores that are basically self paying permanent storage facilities. These business also there to give credibility, and brand recognition for the owner. A smart businessman makes far more at a convention than he ever spends out. There are also a few tricks that stores have started doing, like getting their employees to get individual ebay or whatever accounts and have them say stuff like, "I'm getting rid of my collection," and "I don't know anything about these toys," and then sell the merchandise that way. .


I don't understand what your trying to say here in these 2 paragraphs.so well just move on along to other paragraphs in your reply.



I'm saying that businesses are easy as most people seem to think. There's more going on that most pay attention to. Again, I'm just trying to make people more aware.

deathy wrote:
knightedfeline wrote:Okay, now no longer playing Devil's Advocate for anti-scalpers I've got to clarify something on a personal note. You actually bought 6 RPs and sold them to cover the price for one? Are you nuts? Not only that but you did research to find out this stuff? Are you kidding me?


Please don't insult me by calling me "NUTS". I don't mind debatting with on-line TF fans as long as things are kept civial,respectful & polite.


To me this isn't an insult. In my area of the country this is the same as asking "What are you thinking?"

deathy wrote:I needed to do the research anyways because I was interested in getting one Hasbro TRU Rodimus Prime for my personal collection to keep.

what's wrong with doing research like checking out sightings threads. calling the TRU store each week to find out if the item was in stock & asking what day the trucks arrive. I was prepared & it paid off as I got my item before others beat me to the punch.

you clearly didn't do any research & thus you don't own a TRU Hasbro MP Rodimus Prime toy yet.


Nor do I have plans to get one. To me it's a non-issue. I don't care if I ever see one, because it means very little to me in the big scheme of things. If I wanted one, I would have bought one, but I DON'T CARE! Why do people think everyone else is just like them?

deathy wrote:What I did with the profits of the multiples of toys I sell is none of your business. as long as it paid for my gas & Paid for my free rodimus,I'm satisfied.


You're the one that brought it up. That makes it open for discussion. And no, you did not get a "free" Rodimus. You paid for it. Just like you paid for the others, but instead actually saving for it and putting aside the money for it, you bought extras so you could convince yourself you got it for free. When it comes down to the finances you covered the initial cost, that's not the same as free, because you didn't get paid for the research (even if it was research you did for yourself), you didn't get paid for the posting to e-sites and you didn't get paid for the advertising if you did any. This is what I'm trying to point out. You Lost Money. If you're looking at this as a "business" then look at it that way and not as a hobby.

deathy wrote:I only bought 5 TF toys this year within a 10 month time frame. Since it's not illegial to scalp toys in order to get yourself a free toy with the profits. I did no wrong nor did others who do the same thing.


And think of the free time you could have had if you just bought the toy for yourself?
But who are you trying to convince, yourself or others.

deathy wrote:
knightedfeline wrote:I'm even the kind that doesn't mind spending time to rebuild a figure. I've spent 19 years doing that for just one. To me that's what makes this such a fun hobby..


I'm only 27 years old & lack the patience & desire to do this. I would have had to start when I was 8 years old to do this.


I've been doing it since I was twelve. Age has nothing to do with it. It's just an excuse.

deathy wrote:I had to do the research anyways to get the one figure for my personal collection. I got the other 6 Because I was in the store anyways.

un-like yourself you did no research thus you still don't own a Hasbro TRU Rodimus Prime toy. instead your using your valuable spare time replying to threads complaining that scalpers & others cleaned out your stores of the item you were looking for.

It would have been far more efficent to spend 5 hours of your valuable spare time to do the research before the toy hit your stores. INSTEAD YOUR NOW using THAT 5+ HOURS RESEARCH TIME replying in threads about why you dis-like scalpers & you want anti-scalpers laws in place. so the scalpers don't clean out your stores of a item you like.


Again, if you actually read what I was saying, it doesn't phase me. You could sit there and burn it in a fire and I wouldn't care. I'm not obsessive over my toys like you seem to be. I happen to be writer who's trying to get back in the habit of writing and building his speed up again.

deathy wrote:Do you realize you spent hours/days/weeks,complaining about scalpers cleaning out your store on the internet. you could have transferred that time into research instead of complaining.

I work a 50+hours work week at UPS. When I do toy hunts its either before work or after work or on my lunch hour or my two 15 minute breaks. I have plenty of time to spend with my family & friends as I do toy hunts on my free time at work.


Obviously you've read way too many anti-scalping pages. I started this page to look at both sides. I tried to make suggestions for both and I've tried to give scalpers something to think about, that I know a couple I've talked to, in person, and in the stores never thought of themselves.
BTW if you do an internet search, even on your 15min break, that's using company time and money. You can and I have seen people get in trouble for that. Just so you're aware. Being professional means leaving such things at home and for home.

deathy wrote:AGAIN,Your making fun of me wasting 5 hours of my spare time doing the research to get my Hasbro TRU Rodimus toy. we'll guess what at least I bought the toy & have it.

You basically chose the oppossite to do no research,get no toy. complain for hours on the internet afterwards that the scalpers cleaned out your stores. at the very least my wasted time got me the toy.


If you actually read and understood what I was saying, I wasn't making fun. At this point, again I point this out in a friendly manner, you are acting like a child. This is the third time you've essentially said, "Neener, neener I've got one and you don't."

deathy wrote:So now your making fun of me & others for not being full fledged 100% scalpers? so now it's wrong to be low level & we need to be higher level. please mind your own business what others do in their private lives.


Again, you misinterpret. You seem to think I'm making fun of you. I've never made fun of you. I was trying get you to look at the big picture. I was trying to point out the failing in your logic and the logic of a few others, and pointing out that it would make more sense to be an actual business person instead of a hobbyist, but if you can't see this, then obviously you shouldn't run your own business.

deathy wrote:AGAIN,I needed to do the research & waste time+gas going to the store buying the one MP Rodimus,I needed for my collection. So while I was their,I bought 6 more to make the profits help pay for my gas & get my toy for free.

I made $120 in profits from selling all 6 Hasbro TRU Rosimus prime toys. because I also went to the TRU.com facebook page & printed out 6 20% off coupons. The $120 paid for my free toy,my gas & all my sales taxes,ebay fees & paypal fees. I also got some money left over.


Well, then in this instance, you might actually have made money.

deathy wrote:If given the option,I'd chose option #1. I'd rather do the 5+hours of research & get the item before others beat me to the punch. Rather than chosing the 2nd option you've clearly chosen,do no research,get no item & waste 5+hours of your valuable time complaining all over the internet scalpers beat you to the punch & you want anti-scalpers laws created by either the goverment,states or created by stores.
At some point you clearly wasted gas & time driving to the store also. only to find out that the scalpers cleaned out the stores of the item you wanted.
At the very least all my wasted gas+time,got me the toy. as I did the research & kept calling the store & knew the item was in stock before I drove to the store.


This is the fourth time you've pulled the "Neener Card."

deathy wrote:I make over $25 per hours being a UPS package car driver. I don't know what your trying to imply but I'm not un-employed.please lets try to discuss the topics in the thread. without going off topic & trying to discuss or insult people's personal lives.


You're the one that's talking about getting a toy for "free." What I've tried to point out is that you're not getting it for for free and you're not covering all of your costs. You're not even seeing the additional costs you're giving yourself. I'm not insulting anyone's personal life. What I'm trying to point out is that if you're that worried about money for a figure, then I was trying to suggest a way that might prove more beneficial for you because you've said repeatedly, "I got my figure for free," which as I've said many times you haven't.

deathy wrote:AGAIN,ME & YOU,chose to do two totally different options with our 5+hours worth of spare casual time. I chose option one,which was doing the research,calling the stores to find out what day the trucks arrived. calling the stores everyday to find out if the item was in stock. using the sightings section to guess when the item would arrive at my store. my research paid off as I went to the store & got a hasbro TRU MP Rodimus toy in my personal collection.

You chose option two,which involved no research & then complaining for 5+hours of your spare valuable time on the internet. that scalpers cleaned out your store & wanting anti-scalpers laws put in place by the goverment,states or by the stores. this 2nd option has no toy as others who did the research got the toys.


And again, read don't skim, I'm not the same as you, this is the fifth time for the "Neener Card," and for me this is about writing, not about complaining.

As I said in addressing you personally. I generally get the figures I want. SCALPERS RARELY EVER EFFECT ME. I was playing Devil's Advocate. The time I'm spending on here is me trying to make friends. I don't consider talking over something I don't understand until I do understand it a waste.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby knightedfeline » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:45 am

Just as side note to anyone else. I started this post with the idea that I could come to understand both sides of the issue better, and I am finding more clarity as well unexpected aspects. One I never new this was such a touchy subject for scalpers. It seems that some even try to convince themselves they're not doing anything wrong because they keep repeating it like a mantra. They even go out of their way to read as many anti-scalping posts as possible so they can defend themselves, when if they really felt that way they wouldn't read them at all. I know that the scalped have hurt feelings about it and it's easier to understand their side of it, than the scalper. It's also good to know that some scalpers know how they effect others. I have tried to be as objectionable as possible and play Devil's Advocate when necessary. It is not my goal to bring disharmony, but to bring greater understanding. I do hope this helps.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby dinogeist » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:27 am

Knightedfeline,calling someone "NUTS" is a insult in all the states in America. you appear to be over 20 years old & you know better. stop making weak excuses & sugar coating stuff because it's a further insult to the one you first insulted.

Calling someone "Nuts" is basically making fun of someones mental stability.

I Read the seibertron.com rules on this site. & insults are not tolerated here. they can get you warnings & then banned.

If I & others have to follow the seibertron.com rules then so does everyone else.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby dinogeist » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:05 pm

knightedfeline wrote:Just as side note to anyone else. I started this post with the idea that I could come to understand both sides of the issue better, and I am finding more clarity as well unexpected aspects. One I never new this was such a touchy subject for scalpers. It seems that some even try to convince themselves they're not doing anything wrong because they keep repeating it like a mantra. They even go out of their way to read as many anti-scalping posts as possible so they can defend themselves, when if they really felt that way they wouldn't read them at all. I know that the scalped have hurt feelings about it and it's easier to understand their side of it, than the scalper. It's also good to know that some scalpers know how they effect others. I have tried to be as objectionable as possible and play Devil's Advocate when necessary. It is not my goal to bring disharmony, but to bring greater understanding. I do hope this helps.


1-You clearly created this thread because you were affected by scalpers in your area.

2-these types of Scalper threads most of the time are fan rage threads with fans venting over hatting on scalpers because they beat them to the store & cleaned it out of a desired item they wanted.

3- nothing in your counter replies was repectful. respecful replies don't go out of their way to delve into people private lives & mock every second of their actions with clever insults & below the below remarks/insults. example: calling someone Nuts or saying they waste their time & barely make over minium wage for their efforts.

4- you want anti scalpers laws passed & put in place buy the stores or states. like having stores watch over buyers & prevent them from buying more than one item per day to defeat the scalpers efforts. then you joked they'd have to return back every day & do more hard work to stock up on the item. that treats scalpers infeior & less of a person than others. we had those discriminative/racist/sexist laws in America decades/centuries ago & we got rid of them because they were wrong. and now your asking for those laws to return for scalpers who are a group of people you clearly don't like.

4a-basically if these anti scalpers laws got put in place. the stores/states won't know the difference between a collector nor scalper. as a collector is sometimes a scalper too. do we as collectors or scalpers deserve to get refused service,denied a item or made un-confortable when we walk into a store because were being watched by the store due to the anti-scalper laws put into place.

5-Scalpers are not doing anything wrong since it's not illegial to buy more than one item at a store & sell it for profit. the whole world works on the buy it low & sell it high thing. like gas companies,corporations,wall street stock brokers,bank,loans,mortage companies,etc..

6- Scalpers already pay tax. scalpers buy the items at stores & pay their fair share of state sales tax at the store they bought the item from. expecting anyone to pay double sales tax is against the laws of this country. scalpers don't ask ebay buyers to pay tax. so scalpers are not getting re-imbursed for their store sales tax. therefor scalpers already paid their share of taxes to uncle sam.

7-Scalpers have feelings too. Their are more collectors who are also scalpers then you realize. everyone deserves to be treated with proper & fair respect. no one deserves to get put thru the wringer,mocked or insulted here on the seibertron.com message boards all because some are affected by scalpers because they beat you to the store & cleaned it out of a item you wanted. insulting or mocking or demeaning anyone here on the seibertron.com message boards is not toelerated for whatever reason & can result in warnings & bans happening.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby alternator77 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:12 pm

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scalpers have feeling to


so do little kids who will miss out on items they cant find because someone bought all of them up at one store to help pay for one. :roll:

i could care less if i cant find an item but it gets under my skin when an grown ass adult takes that opportunity from a friggin kid man! a kid seriously thats just sad.
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Re: Scalping: A Look at the Market Effect

Postby Blurrz » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:58 pm

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I'm closing this thread because many of you have taken this personally rather than professionally. May this be a reminder that when threads are creating to ensue opinions on others, there's going to be other opinions from people on the other side. Bottomline, scalpers will always exist simply because we are born into a society that is ruled by how much money one has. If you have a problem with that, then turn the other cheek, and be the better man on the inside. There are far worse things in this world than this.
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