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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Fri May 11, 2012 8:13 pm

I don't think it's the fact that the body's "movie" makes it wrong here. I think it's more the "robot skeleton" thing Bludgeon had going on just doesn't work for a TF with a normal sort of face.

Every time I see that SG Magnus head it makes me really convinced it was supposed to be for a Scourge. It's still very Prime-like only twisted and evil. Everything Scourge is.

Also, I think it'd be helpful to have a Shattered Gladd subgroup under Convention exclucives. I mean, sure they're all in the greater botcon and club category, but it'd be nice to have them all together. Unlike most other sets it's a real theme that's been going on for quite a few years now.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Seibertron » Fri May 11, 2012 10:04 pm

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Stormrider wrote:
Mkall wrote:
Stormrider wrote:I'm not very impressed with the headsculpts of Soundwave, Gigatron, or Metalhawk.

I like Gigatron's head. It's a nice reference to Last Stand of The Wreckers. I only wish that the body asthetics could match the head to give us a proper Overlord.


I completely agree that the face reminds me of the Last Stand of the Wreckers. And I am with you - Gigatron's face and body do not go well together. One is cartoonish, the other is movie.


This face is a terrible Transformers face. It's not what his face looks like in LSOTW. The overall shape of the head is, but the face itself is proportioned very poorly. To demonstrate my point, I put this montage together of various headshots of Overlord/Gigatron from the LSOTW comics, the BotCon prequel comic, Overlord's original box art, and the Invasion box set artwork. It's obvious that the LSOTW face/head was what they were going for, but the end product just fails miserably. Not sure if the oddly angled eyes are what's wrong, or the long nose, or the way-too-human lips (which look terrible on Nick Roche's artwork as well), or way too large of a space between the nose and the upper lip (the philtrum) ... but altogether the face is just proportioned poorly. Maybe it's because I'm an artist and I can clearly see that the facial proportions are incorrect that this face bothers me so much. I see what they were trying to do, it just didn't work out well. They should've stuck with a traditional Transformer face.

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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Mkall » Fri May 11, 2012 10:21 pm

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Seibertron wrote:
Stormrider wrote:
Mkall wrote:
Stormrider wrote:I'm not very impressed with the headsculpts of Soundwave, Gigatron, or Metalhawk.

I like Gigatron's head. It's a nice reference to Last Stand of The Wreckers. I only wish that the body asthetics could match the head to give us a proper Overlord.


I completely agree that the face reminds me of the Last Stand of the Wreckers. And I am with you - Gigatron's face and body do not go well together. One is cartoonish, the other is movie.


This face is a terrible Transformers face. It's not what his face looks like in LSOTW. The overall shape of the head is, but the face itself is proportioned very poorly. To demonstrate my point, I put this montage together of various headshots of Overlord/Gigatron from the LSOTW comics, the BotCon prequel comic, Overlord's original box art, and the Invasion box set artwork. It's obvious that the LSOTW face/head was what they were going for, but the end product just fails miserably. Not sure if the oddly angled eyes are what's wrong, or the long nose, or the way-too-human lips (which look terrible on Nick Roche's artwork as well), or way too large of a space between the nose and the upper lip (the philtrum) ... but altogether the face is just proportioned poorly. Maybe it's because I'm an artist and I can clearly see that the facial proportions are incorrect that this face bothers me so much. I see what they were trying to do, it just didn't work out well. They should've stuck with a traditional Transformer face.

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Sorry, but IMO that montage (to me) validates my opinion of the head. They were going for a Roche-inspired head, and they mentioned that at the TCC panel IIRC, and they got all the elements more or less accurate: chin, lips nose, helmet. Given what they were aiming for I'd say they did a decent job of it. Now did they get a good homage to the Original Overlord? I think you and I can agree they didn't.

I don't mind, however, given that more and more my collection appears to be shifting towards IDW-styled figures; with Perceptor's sniper rifle and Kup's Cygar. Thus I think I'm just more accepting of it because of it.

I think the head's look could be improved with a better application of paint on the eyes. In your gallery, and my figure, the paint-apps are sloppy and there appear to be a slant-eyed look that could bely a more angry or determined visage which may or may not work well with the figure's face. We'll never know though.

TL;TR - I don't mind the head, you do mind the head; let's agree to disagree.

EDIT: In looking for pictures of G1 Overlord, there aren't many out there that I could find where the head is shown clearly aside from tfu.info's page. It could be the flash playing off the head, but I think there's lips on it as well. Thus until I'm proven wrong, I thus believe this to be a decent homage to the original Overlord, but not as good as it was to Nick Roche's
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Seibertron » Fri May 11, 2012 11:43 pm

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Definitely have to agree to disagree. I threw this very quick mock-up together in photoshop. After playing around with his face for a while, I figured out where I feel the biggest changes need to be made ... it's mostly in the eyes. The eyes are too high up, the top part of the bridge of the nose by the eyebrows needs to go, the "eyebrow"/forehead space between the top of his eyes and the bottom his helmet needs to be reduced signifcantly after moving the eyes lower on his face, plus the lines/indentations around the eyes need to be added. Again, this is a real quick mock-up (i.e. not perfect) to demonstrate some changes that should've been made to the final model. Hopefully this will demonstrate what I'm trying to express better.

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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Mkall » Fri May 11, 2012 11:59 pm

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Seibertron wrote:Definitely have to agree to disagree. I threw this very quick mock-up together in photoshop. After playing around with his face for a while, I figured out where I feel the biggest changes need to be made ... it's mostly in the eyes. The eyes are too high up, the top part of the bridge of the nose by the eyebrows needs to go, the "eyebrow"/forehead space between the top of his eyes and the bottom his helmet needs to be reduced signifcantly after moving the eyes lower on his face, plus the lines/indentations around the eyes need to be added. Again, this is a real quick mock-up (i.e. not perfect) to demonstrate some changes that should've been made to the final model. Hopefully this will demonstrate what I'm trying to express better.

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I think you nailed what I was saying; fix the eyes, fix the head.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Seibertron » Sat May 12, 2012 12:58 am

Motto: "Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly; the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest ... is silence."
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Mkall wrote:EDIT: In looking for pictures of G1 Overlord, there aren't many out there that I could find where the head is shown clearly aside from tfu.info's page. It could be the flash playing off the head, but I think there's lips on it as well. Thus until I'm proven wrong, I thus believe this to be a decent homage to the original Overlord, but not as good as it was to Nick Roche's


The original Overlord's face wasn't much to brag about either. It's OK ... but no where near as awesome as it should've been, though it definitely has that early 80s "Diaclone" look to his face.

The BotCon 2012 figures have moved up some older figures that need some gallery love. G1 Overlord has moved toward the top of my list, along with Road Rage and Crosscut, and "Diaclone" Ultra Magnus so that I can provide all of you with comparison pictures. Once I bust out those figures, I'll be sure to update the existing BotCon 2012 galleries of those versions of the characters with comparison pics.

I'm really looking forward to doing Overlord's gallery. I've owned him for 4 years and have never transformed him. Should be awesome.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby El Duque » Sat May 12, 2012 1:03 am

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Whoever does their sculpting seems to have a problem with eyes. Astrotrain comes to mind, as well as this guy and this year's SG Soundwave.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Seibertron » Sat May 12, 2012 1:12 am

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El Duque wrote:Whoever does their sculpting seems to have a problem with eyes. Astrotrain comes to mind, as well as this guy and this year's SG Soundwave.


There are a lot of examples where the heads just aren't right.

Club exclusive Counterpunch's shrunken head comes to mind, as does the lack of paint apps on Club Cheetor. Beast Wars Megatron's eyes are wrong as well. The black lines below or around the eyes are inverted or whatever, which the Club acknowledged at some point (if I recall correctly) by stating that the overseas sculptor misunderstood what was intended by the line art. Unfortunately, I can't find any links to back up that claim at this moment other than vague BotCon memories.

I don't understand how they don't get the chance to get these issues fixed before the production run. I wonder if it's a cost issue. Costs $??? more to proof the sculpts ahead of time but is cheaper if they skip that step. Seems odd that problems with the heads keep happening over and over again.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby NamelessOne » Sat May 12, 2012 12:06 pm

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Apologies in advance if this has been documented elsewhere, but, what is SG Soundwave's headband made out of? I was looking at that horrible official rubber one on eBay, (even though it should have been included with each fig), I'll be damned if I'm forking out for that....

I just bought a length of Lime-Green 3mm ribbon on eBay, then saw that plasticky goodness in the gallery -what IS it?!?!?
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Seibertron » Sat May 12, 2012 12:17 pm

Motto: "Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly; the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest ... is silence."
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NaM3L3sS wrote:Apologies in advance if this has been documented elsewhere, but, what is SG Soundwave's headband made out of? I was looking at that horrible official rubber one on eBay, (even though it should have been included with each fig), I'll be damned if I'm forking out for that....

I just bought a length of Lime-Green 3mm ribbon on eBay, then saw that plasticky goodness in the gallery -what IS it?!?!?


I used something called Rexlace lacing.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss? ... reen&ajr=0

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I picked up a 100 yard spool of the lacing at my local Hobby Lobby for $1.99 or $2.99. There's enough here for me to me headbands for everyone that wants one, but at that price, you should just go down to your local craft store and buy your own. Use a pair of wire cutters to cut the ends at a slight angle to make it look a little more dynamic and you're all good to go! I managed to tied it in a double knot. It's not perfect, but for display purposes it's fine.

Just a slight warning though ... the paint isn't applied that great to Soundwave's head. If you look at the tips on the top of his head in some of the later pictures in Soundwave's gallery, you'll see that a very small amount of paint came off from removing the headband as many times as I did during the gallery shoot. Not a big deal ... just something to be mindful of.

EDIT: After looking at the very early pics of the figure, it looks like the same amount was gone from the tips so maybe it's just a flaw with my Soundwave ... can anyone else confirm if their Soundwave is like that as well?

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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby whacko » Sat May 12, 2012 7:14 pm

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Soundwave is embarrassingly bad. I mean he looks like a cheap KO. Happymeal Transformers have had better paint.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Seibertron » Sat May 12, 2012 9:03 pm

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whacko wrote:Soundwave is embarrassingly bad. I mean he looks like a cheap KO. Happymeal Transformers have had better paint.


Not to mention the bulging eyes. I'm surprised more people aren't bitching about that. I'm really anal about their faces. It's my thing. Soundwave is my favorite character. Music Label Soundwave is pretty awesome. Shattered Glass Soundwave is a very bad implementation and mold choice.

I really hope Shattered Glass can be put to bed. I can't get over how many of you got suckered into the most lame and easy repaint excuse storyline ever. Shattered Glass makes the 2003/2004 Universe storyline seem awesome. It was OK for the 2008 BotCon exclusive set. A one time deal. If you don't like it ... that's OK. Move on to the next thing. But to continue to drag it on is just too much. Optimus Prime is not evil. Megatron is not heroic.

Soundwave having a neon/lime green bandanna is about as bad as it should get. Enough's enough. It was fun for a one year thing, but it got really old as soon as BotCon 2008 ended.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby El Duque » Sat May 12, 2012 10:34 pm

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Why the Hell didn't they use RtS Perceptor for SG Soundwave. SUV alt mode, check. Opening chest, check. Shoulder cannon, check.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Seibertron » Sat May 12, 2012 11:13 pm

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El Duque wrote:Why the Hell didn't they use RtS Perceptor for SG Soundwave. SUV alt mode, check. Opening chest, check. Shoulder cannon, check.



Alt mode that doesn't look like crap? check. Toy that doesn't look like crap in robot mode or vehicle mode? Check!

I swear this is an instance of Hasbro saying ... "hey, we have this mold that sucks, which saw limited production runs, do something with this so that this mold can be more profitable!"
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Mkall » Sun May 13, 2012 1:35 am

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El Duque wrote:Why the Hell didn't they use RtS Perceptor for SG Soundwave. SUV alt mode, check. Opening chest, check. Shoulder cannon, check.

I think that the Club portrayed SG Soundwave in this form before RTS Perceptor was revieled. Thus they (and we) are kinda stuck with it.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Dead Metal » Sun May 13, 2012 2:10 am

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Mkall wrote:
El Duque wrote:Why the Hell didn't they use RtS Perceptor for SG Soundwave. SUV alt mode, check. Opening chest, check. Shoulder cannon, check.

I think that the Club portrayed SG Soundwave in this form before RTS Perceptor was revieled. Thus they (and we) are kinda stuck with it.

They did, remember back when he got that body Universe 2.0 was still around, RTS came about 3 years later.
Complaining about him being based off of the mold that's iconic for him is kind alike complaining about Classics Thundercracker being based of of Classics Starscream instead of a mold that hadn't existed at the time the character was originally created.

It's no secret that I think FunPub sucks at head moulds, but you gotta admit the Soundwave head is waaay better than the shitty Ironhide head they made for Descent into Evil, but then again G1 Ironhide's head is better than that POS.

Seibertron wrote:I really hope Shattered Glass can be put to bed. I can't get over how many of you got suckered into the most lame and easy repaint excuse storyline ever. Shattered Glass makes the 2003/2004 Universe storyline seem awesome. It was OK for the 2008 BotCon exclusive set. A one time deal. If you don't like it ... that's OK. Move on to the next thing. But to continue to drag it on is just too much. Optimus Prime is not evil. Megatron is not heroic.

Soundwave having a neon/lime green bandanna is about as bad as it should get. Enough's enough. It was fun for a one year thing, but it got really old as soon as BotCon 2008 ended.

Shattered Glass Optimus Prime is evil, and it's been going on for so long due to the fact that it's popular, no other BotCon set has sold out as fast as the original SG set, and that was supposed to be a one off, but the fans wanted more.
Alternate realities are popular and twisted ones are even more popular.
That's just how it works, if companies didn't bring out more product that was popular and only thought of stuff as one offs never to be revisited again, Transformers would have stopped back in 84.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Sun May 13, 2012 3:42 am

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Seibertron wrote:
whacko wrote:Soundwave is embarrassingly bad. I mean he looks like a cheap KO. Happymeal Transformers have had better paint.


Not to mention the bulging eyes. I'm surprised more people aren't bitching about that. I'm really anal about their faces. It's my thing. Soundwave is my favorite character. Music Label Soundwave is pretty awesome. Shattered Glass Soundwave is a very bad implementation and mold choice.


Well, it was a forced choice, as stated before and you all know it:

SG Soundwave in "The Desert Heat" (2009) on TFWiki

Years before RTS was even conceived, let alone Perceptor.

I really hope Shattered Glass can be put to bed. I can't get over how many of you got suckered into the most lame and easy repaint excuse storyline ever. Shattered Glass makes the 2003/2004 Universe storyline seem awesome. It was OK for the 2008 BotCon exclusive set. A one time deal. If you don't like it ... that's OK. Move on to the next thing. But to continue to drag it on is just too much. Optimus Prime is not evil. Megatron is not heroic.


Like it or not, SG is here to stay because it's a major part of the Timelines storyline now, and with the open ending expect it to last another year. Yes, I too am a sucker as you put it for repaints, but if it has a link to an older source or an obscure source and if the story behind the character appeals to me (right now Wreck-Gar and his Junkion are guilty of that. Resistance is futile), well...
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Stormrider » Sun May 13, 2012 12:44 pm

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Seibertron wrote:
whacko wrote:Soundwave is embarrassingly bad. I mean he looks like a cheap KO. Happymeal Transformers have had better paint.


Not to mention the bulging eyes. I'm surprised more people aren't bitching about that. I'm really anal about their faces. It's my thing. Soundwave is my favorite character. Music Label Soundwave is pretty awesome. Shattered Glass Soundwave is a very bad implementation and mold choice.

I really hope Shattered Glass can be put to bed. I can't get over how many of you got suckered into the most lame and easy repaint excuse storyline ever. Shattered Glass makes the 2003/2004 Universe storyline seem awesome. It was OK for the 2008 BotCon exclusive set. A one time deal. If you don't like it ... that's OK. Move on to the next thing. But to continue to drag it on is just too much. Optimus Prime is not evil. Megatron is not heroic.

Soundwave having a neon/lime green bandanna is about as bad as it should get. Enough's enough. It was fun for a one year thing, but it got really old as soon as BotCon 2008 ended.


I agree that SG is one of the weakest storylines in the Transformers universe. It is a lazy way to do repaints. An alternate universe with same characters but opposite in personal is so cliched. The only thing missing are the "evil goatees". I too would wish they would get SG.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Mkall » Sun May 13, 2012 1:31 pm

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Stormrider wrote:I agree that SG is one of the weakest storylines in the Transformers universe. It is a lazy way to do repaints. An alternate universe with same characters but opposite in personal is so cliched. The only thing missing are the "evil goatees". I too would wish they would get SG.

They do SO have evil goatees

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But yeah, I'll be happy to not see SG figures again. Maybe an occasional one in their Figure Subscription Service, but that's really it.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby whacko » Sun May 13, 2012 2:31 pm

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JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Seibertron wrote:
whacko wrote:Soundwave is embarrassingly bad. I mean he looks like a cheap KO. Happymeal Transformers have had better paint.


Not to mention the bulging eyes. I'm surprised more people aren't bitching about that. I'm really anal about their faces. It's my thing. Soundwave is my favorite character. Music Label Soundwave is pretty awesome. Shattered Glass Soundwave is a very bad implementation and mold choice.


Well, it was a forced choice, as stated before and you all know it:

SG Soundwave in "The Desert Heat" (2009) on TFWiki

Years before RTS was even conceived, let alone Perceptor.




That might excuse the choice of mold, but it doesn't excuse the piss-poor head sculpt nor the even worse paint job. I don't even mind that mold but the execution is insulting given the price they charge for these figures.
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Re: New BotCon 2012 Galleries: Gigatron, Metalhawk, Treadshot, Ultra Magnus, Soundwave and Turbo Tracks

Postby Counterpunch » Sun May 13, 2012 8:04 pm

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Seibertron wrote:I can't get over how many of you got suckered into the most lame and easy repaint excuse storyline ever.


Yet Shattered Glass has been one of the more popular Botcon themes, even gaining popularity as it aged.

...and other redeco boxsets like the 2007 one caused people to be angry about figures they would not "ever" get or were largely ignored (Wings of Honor) when they introduced new characters.

SG is popular because it bends the existing story. It has context, characters we know, and the ability to blend or not blend into as much of the existing fiction as we like.

I'm not really sure pegging Optimus as only good, or Megatron as only evil has a lot of traction in this particular discussion. Within the context of an SG framework, that is the only logical extension of those characters.

I'd rather have more years of SG than I would another forgettable Wings of Honor. (especially because there's a chance for more Classics redecos now that SG and Classicsverse has collided)
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Re: Seibertron.com's new BotCon 2012 Galleries

Postby El Duque » Mon May 14, 2012 11:01 am

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The Seibertron.com galleries for the BotCon 2012 Shattered Glass Junkions are now live! This popular attendee only set of Insecticon colored versions of Wreck-Gar, Scrap Iron, and Junkheap were the first to sell out this year. The set features all three Junkion head sculpts including the e-Hobby exclusive Scrapheap version. Check out the full high quality galleries by clicking the links or images below.


Wreck-Gar (Deluxe Class, Exclusives)
Convention & Club Exclusives

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Scrap Iron (Deluxe Class, Exclusives)
Convention & Club Exclusives

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Junkheap (Deluxe Class, Exclusives)
Convention & Club Exclusives

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Re: Seibertron.com's new BotCon 2012 Galleries

Postby Mkall » Mon May 14, 2012 11:16 am

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I gotta say that these three won the year with Kick-Off being a close second. I love these guys.
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Re: Seibertron.com's new BotCon 2012 Galleries

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Mon May 14, 2012 12:20 pm

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Mkall wrote:I gotta say that these three won the year with Kick-Off being a close second. I love these guys.


I agree, probably one of the few Troop Builder sets that's worth buying more of. Although I'd end up selling off the extra SG Wreck-Gars for the sake of the collective :P
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Re: Seibertron.com's new BotCon 2012 Galleries

Postby Hans » Mon May 14, 2012 12:40 pm

I just noticed that Junkheap now has the visor originally intended for him. The mass market release had the visor that belonged to E-hobby exclusive Scrap Heap. It didn't fit too well and made his "eyes" look strange. The fact that they were painted over didn't help, either. Here, it seems his visor (the clear molded piece) has been fixed for the BotCon release.
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