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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

F Prime wrote:Silverbolt being a space-shuttle would be a nice call-back to The Key to Vector Sigma.

I disagree.

G1 Silverbolts [pre aerilbot] cybertron mode was a low flying transport shuttle....not a space shuttle.

Sorry you disagree, but I did say "call back" and did not intend that to mean "exactly identical". I know they were low-flying transport shuttles.

F Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

F Prime wrote:Silverbolt being a space-shuttle would be a nice call-back to The Key to Vector Sigma.

I disagree.

G1 Silverbolts [pre aerilbot] cybertron mode was a low flying transport shuttle....not a space shuttle.

Sorry you disagree, but I did say "call back" and did not intend that to mean "exactly identical". I know they were low-flying transport shuttles.

theres nothing to be sorry about.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

F Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

F Prime wrote:Silverbolt being a space-shuttle would be a nice call-back to The Key to Vector Sigma.

I disagree.

G1 Silverbolts [pre aerilbot] cybertron mode was a low flying transport shuttle....not a space shuttle.

Sorry you disagree, but I did say "call back" and did not intend that to mean "exactly identical". I know they were low-flying transport shuttles.

theres nothing to be sorry about.

I am sure you knew this, but it was mostly sarcastic.

Is there a criteria for how similar something needs to be to qualify as a call-back? When I watched the episode when it first aired the shape of the shuttles reminded me of space shuttles (I know..you are going to tell me that I was wrong..but that is ok).

F Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

F Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

F Prime wrote:Silverbolt being a space-shuttle would be a nice call-back to The Key to Vector Sigma.

I disagree.

G1 Silverbolts [pre aerilbot] cybertron mode was a low flying transport shuttle....not a space shuttle.

Sorry you disagree, but I did say "call back" and did not intend that to mean "exactly identical". I know they were low-flying transport shuttles.

theres nothing to be sorry about.

I am sure you knew this, but it was mostly sarcastic.

Is there a criteria for how similar something needs to be to qualify as a call-back? When I watched the episode when it first aired the shape of the shuttles reminded me of space shuttles (I know..you are going to tell me that I was wrong..but that is ok).

no your not wrong.

They did have a similar shape, and they were pointed at the sky,[up wards] so I can see how you may have gotten the idea.

But I feel how they were described negates the possibility of a "space" ship of any type.

As for a "criteria to qualify something as a call-back" I think it needs to be something along the same lines of a vehicle/object.

Just being a "shuttle" cant really qualify because the word just doesnt apply to a type of vehicle, its also a way to describe a vehicles function/assigned task..

There are train shuttles,Bus shuttles,van shuttles and so on.

Silverbolt's "pre-vegtor" sigma form was more of a flying train shuttle function wise..

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: for someone who claims that they get sick of the flaming and arguments thats a pretty inflamatory post there.

If i was petty or small minded i would report it as being offensive and confrontational, but im not.

So lets just leave it here as evidence of your hypocrisy next tim you get on the high horse about people being disrespectful to bay movers

Seriously, what kind of response did you expect? Most of the few post you have are negative towards Bay or the movies in general. In this particular case you had a couple points and i thought we could have a decent dissicsion other than your typical bay hate responses. But all your could respond to my counter debate was..

i dont see any explanation being provided its bay

Your response was just more worthless than mine. This just tells me that even if an explanation is provided, your just going to write it off anyhow.
So your atempt to flame me about being hypocritical is totaly moot since your oringal response proved my point.

i was simply pointing out that bay doesnt do explanations, for example

- how come soundwave wasnt detected in the atmospehere
- no explanation for grinder. Most would have thought that it was blackout, but he died in first movie
- Where was the fallen hiding out
- the multiple models of the same decepticons.

Bay almost makes it confusing.

You replied with an insult !

shamone wrote:i was simply pointing out that bay doesnt do explanations,

Ahh, but I provided possible explanations for your oringal concerns. Instead of debating those, your response was a one lined insult to Bay.

shamone wrote:for example

- how come soundwave wasnt detected in the atmospehere,

Undetectable by earth radar... He took the place of an MTV satalite... He jamed their dections of him (he is a cominications specialists) There could be several different reasons, but lets be completely honest. How does this impact the plot in any way?

shamone wrote:- no explanation for grinder. Most would have thought that it was blackout, but he died in first movie,

Now this a agree with 100%. I do believe reusing his alt mode and renaming it was a poor choice. It would have been much better to use a completely new alt mode.

shamone wrote:- - Where was the fallen hiding out,

Space! Duh!

shamone wrote:- - the multiple models of the same decepticons.,

Drones. Even my 60yr old dad got that. Becides, this isn't the first time drones have been used without any formal introduction.

shamone wrote:- Bay almost makes it confusing.,

In G1 where does optimus Primes trailer go ever time he transforms? How does it appear when he goes back to vehicle mode?
Why does Megatron keep around Starscream and not kill him knowing he will betray him at a moments notice to take his place a ruler of the decepticons?
Why in Robot mode on Cybertron before the pick an earth mode, does every bot look exactly like they do when they appear on earth?


Just like the rest of the TF franshise the movie isn't my any means perfect. It certainly has its flaws. But i do feel that many are digging to find those misperfections, and then letting those simple ones ruin the movie for them.

shamone wrote:- You replied with an insult !

Now see what we just did now? We debated. You brought up points, and i brought a rebutle. Thats how things should work. Should i have insulted you? no. I admit that wasn't the best of moves on my part. I apoligise. But when you give a one liner response that you did, don't expect smiley face as a response.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote:i was simply pointing out that bay doesnt do explanations,

Ahh, but I provided possible explanations for your oringal concerns. Instead of debating those, your response was a one lined insult to Bay.

shamone wrote:for example

- how come soundwave wasnt detected in the atmospehere,

Undetectable by earth radar... He took the place of an MTV satalite... He jamed their dections of him (he is a cominications specialists) There could be several different reasons, but lets be completely honest. How does this impact the plot in any way?

shamone wrote:- no explanation for grinder. Most would have thought that it was blackout, but he died in first movie,

Now this a agree with 100%. I do believe reusing his alt mode and renaming it was a poor choice. It would have been much better to use a completely new alt mode.

shamone wrote:- - Where was the fallen hiding out,

Space! Duh!

shamone wrote:- - the multiple models of the same decepticons.,

Drones. Even my 60yr old dad got that. Becides, this isn't the first time drones have been used without any formal introduction.

shamone wrote:- Bay almost makes it confusing.,

In G1 where does optimus Primes trailer go ever time he transforms? How does it appear when he goes back to vehicle mode?
Why does Megatron keep around Starscream and not kill him knowing he will betray him at a moments notice to take his place a ruler of the decepticons?
Why in Robot mode on Cybertron before the pick an earth mode, does every bot look exactly like they do when they appear on earth?


Just like the rest of the TF franshise the movie isn't my any means perfect. It certainly has its flaws. But i do feel that many are digging to find those misperfections, and then letting those simple ones ruin the movie for them.

shamone wrote:- You replied with an insult !

Now see what we just did now? We debated. You brought up points, and i brought a rebutle. Thats how things should work. Should i have insulted you? no. I admit that wasn't the best of moves on my part. I apoligise. But when you give a one liner response that you did, don't expect smiley face as a response.

the points i make dont affect the storyline, but they managed to take me out of the movie having to work out the logistics of it myself, thus distracting me from the movie. Thats a fatal flaw for any movie.

As for the space answer. But where, what was that cloud thing he lived in. Was it on a planet, a warship, etc. Why didnt the autobots trace them to there, in the years that they have been on earth ?

The drones were not explained. Why no autobot drones.

Now im not looking for you to answer these questions, just highlighting, and there are other examples, of how bay throws things at the screen, and creates a frustration as one wonders what is happening. So thats why i believe silverbolt as shuttle would not be answered just thrown on screen.

as for your last paragraph. i accept you were wrong, fair enough.

However your patronising and condescending tone may be a reason why i may be reluctant to "debate" with you. And "thats how things should work" . I dont know if you are a moderator here, but if you are not then do you think you should really dictate how people communicate here, and if they do so in a manner which you dont approve of then you can insult them.

shamone wrote:
As for the space answer. But where, what was that cloud thing he lived in. Was it on a planet, a warship, etc.

Umm..its obvious it was an other planet or some type of moon or space body.

The only question is where in the universe its located.

Why didnt the autobots trace them to there, in the years that they have been on earth ?

its a very big universe

The drones were not explained. Why no autobot drones.

maybe the Autobots dont use drones as forced labor.

shamone wrote: the points i make dont affect the storyline, but they managed to take me out of the movie having to work out the logistics of it myself, thus distracting me from the movie. Thats a fatal flaw for any movie.

This makes no sense as you just contradicted yourself. You admit these points have nothing to do, nor affect the storyline in any way, but you say they are a fatal flaw. Which is it?

shamone wrote: As for the space answer. But where, what was that cloud thing he lived in. Was it on a planet, a warship, etc. Why didn't the autobots trace them to there, in the years that they have been on earth ?

See the following...

sto_vo_kor_2000] Umm..its obvious it was an other planet or some type of moon or space body.
The only question is where in the universe its located. [/quote]
See? He sto_vo_kor2000 was able to draw a simple conclusion on his own, as many others have,
Not every point is going to be explained. At some point you need to figure out the obvious on your own. Again, if answer like this bug you so much, then why are you a TF fan? The entire TF universe is filled with them.
[quote="sto_vo_kor_2000] Now im not looking for you to answer these questions,.[/quote] Why? Are you afraid that there might have been an explanation you overlooked? [quote="shamone wrote:just highlighting, and there are other examples, of how bay throws things at the screen, and creates a frustration as one wonders what is happening. So thats why i believe silverbolt as shuttle would not be answered just thrown on screen.

Now do you think maybe, just maybe had you responded with this explanation in stead of..
"I don't expect an explanation provided its bay"
I might no have responded to your smart ass comment with one of my own? You see how someone might not want to take you seriously?
Anyhow, since your convinced that their will be no explanation as to why silverbolt possible alt mode is a space shuttle, then why even bring it up? And as far as alt mode explanations go, 95% of the time, there has never been any explanations as to why any TF takes on the Alt mode they do. So why is it such a concern for you now?

shamone wrote:However your patronizing and condescending tone may be a reason why i may be reluctant to "debate" with you. And "thats how things should work" . I don't know if you are a moderator here, but if you are not then do you think you should really dictate how people communicate here, and if they do so in a manner which you don't approve of then you can insult them.

Go re-read my original post quoting your questions regarding silver bolt as a shuttle. Please point out were my tone was "patronizing and condescending" as you put it. This started by your inability to respond to an explanation other than another knock at Bay. Again, what kind of response do you expect to receive? And its not my way of communicating. Its common knowledge that if you give a smart ass response, then your going to get one in return.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: the points i make dont affect the storyline, but they managed to take me out of the movie having to work out the logistics of it myself, thus distracting me from the movie. Thats a fatal flaw for any movie.

This makes no sense as you just contradicted yourself. You admit these points have nothing to do, nor affect the storyline in any way, but you say they are a fatal flaw. Which is it?

shamone wrote: As for the space answer. But where, what was that cloud thing he lived in. Was it on a planet, a warship, etc. Why didn't the autobots trace them to there, in the years that they have been on earth ?

See the following...

sto_vo_kor_2000] Umm..its obvious it was an other planet or some type of moon or space body.
The only question is where in the universe its located. [/quote]
See? He sto_vo_kor2000 was able to draw a simple conclusion on his own, as many others have,
Not every point is going to be explained. At some point you need to figure out the obvious on your own. Again, if answer like this bug you so much, then why are you a TF fan? The entire TF universe is filled with them.
[quote="sto_vo_kor_2000] Now im not looking for you to answer these questions,.[/quote] Why? Are you afraid that there might have been an explanation you overlooked? [quote="shamone wrote:just highlighting, and there are other examples, of how bay throws things at the screen, and creates a frustration as one wonders what is happening. So thats why i believe silverbolt as shuttle would not be answered just thrown on screen.

Now do you think maybe, just maybe had you responded with this explanation in stead of..
"I don't expect an explanation provided its bay"
I might no have responded to your smart ass comment with one of my own? You see how someone might not want to take you seriously?
Anyhow, since your convinced that their will be no explanation as to why silverbolt possible alt mode is a space shuttle, then why even bring it up? And as far as alt mode explanations go, 95% of the time, there has never been any explanations as to why any TF takes on the Alt mode they do. So why is it such a concern for you now?

shamone wrote:However your patronizing and condescending tone may be a reason why i may be reluctant to "debate" with you. And "thats how things should work" . I don't know if you are a moderator here, but if you are not then do you think you should really dictate how people communicate here, and if they do so in a manner which you don't approve of then you can insult them.

Go re-read my original post quoting your questions regarding silver bolt as a shuttle. Please point out were my tone was "patronizing and condescending" as you put it. This started by your inability to respond to an explanation other than another knock at Bay. Again, what kind of response do you expect to receive? And its not my way of communicating. Its common knowledge that if you give a smart ass response, then your going to get one in return.

1. its not contradicting myself. yes they are not related to the main plot, however they succeeded in removing the immersiveness one has when watching a movie, thus they are negative aspects.

2. those answers are pure speculation. For what is meant to be a simple movie why have such thrown together elements. hell the fallen himself wasnt even mentioned in the first movie, and suddenly he is the big bad !

3. again you seem to believe that there is a standardised posting here, and if people dont comply with your vision then they are wrong. It is not for you to ask why someone posted this or posted that, its not your concern, so ease up on those who dont meet your posting requirements.

And i quote
"Thats how things should work"

really, really, really


4. Now see what we just did now? We debated. You brought up points, and i brought a rebutle.

I'm sorry but this smacks of patronisation and condescension ! Talking to people as if they are children, or intellectual lightweights is not likely to endear is it. Im not saying you shouldnt do it, but be aware that is patronising if you are not aware of it

dirk2243 wrote:could be. Has anyone seen anything on Silverbolt? I haven't seen anything. I'm starting to wonder if it was part of his mis-leading campaing? I would have thought Megatron and Shockwave would have been kept a better secret than Silverbolt?

All I want to see of Silverbolt is how bad*** he's gonna look as a toy and in the movie

Gyrotron wrote:

dirk2243 wrote:could be. Has anyone seen anything on Silverbolt? I haven't seen anything. I'm starting to wonder if it was part of his mis-leading campaing? I would have thought Megatron and Shockwave would have been kept a better secret than Silverbolt?

All I want to see of Silverbolt is how bad*** he's gonna look as a toy and in the movie

Lets just say, for the sake of a silverbolt toy. ( I personally think Silverbolt is code for Sentinal Prime, but I could be wrong) His toy (if a space shuttle) would be cool, however as a toy his scale would be way off. Even if given a leader class it would be more in scale with the Legends TF's.

dirk2243 wrote:

Gyrotron wrote:

dirk2243 wrote:could be. Has anyone seen anything on Silverbolt? I haven't seen anything. I'm starting to wonder if it was part of his mis-leading campaing? I would have thought Megatron and Shockwave would have been kept a better secret than Silverbolt?

All I want to see of Silverbolt is how bad*** he's gonna look as a toy and in the movie

Lets just say, for the sake of a silverbolt toy. ( I personally think Silverbolt is code for Sentinal Prime, but I could be wrong) His toy (if a space shuttle) would be cool, however as a toy his scale would be way off. Even if given a leader class it would be more in scale with the Legends TF's.

I'm thinkin' more G1 alt mode but we'll see.

Not to be a kill-joy but I think Silverbolt's not going to be in the movie...

Silverbolt is not in the movie. This was fact ages ago. Now the movie is out and many of us have seen it (including me), Silverbolt speculation needs to die.

Starscream GaGa wrote:Silverbolt is, of course, not in the movie.

He wasn't, was he?

And I'm saying that, smiling sadly.

If he isn't in the movie, could it have been a slight mistake, and could he actually appear in Prime? I'm probably really over thinking this, but still...