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SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Psychout » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:30 am

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Burn wrote:How exactly would OPEN work?

From what I read, it's aimed at non-US websites ... but ahh ... what gives the US jurisdiction over them?
The US jurisdiction thing is that these sites, and 99% of the internet, has a .com address. ALL of these are, at the very least, routed through American based servers, regardless of where the site content/ownership is held. That why the Yanks can get involved.

As for OPEN, in essence its similar to SOPA and PIPA, but - and I must admit to being surprised about this myself - this one may not be quite so terrible...
Close SOPA and PIPA; OPEN the internet - The Manitoban wrote:What makes OPEN Act different is its approach and presentation. Unlike SOPA and PIPA, The OPEN Act movement has a home on the Internet, where all the information regarding the bill is easily accessible. What is more, visitors to the website are encouraged to comment and edit – yes, edit – the bill.
Most interestingly, it has the support of Google, Facebook, Twitter and the Management of Reddit, who were arguably the driving force behind last weeks internet-wide blackout. (No mention of support/opposition from Wikipedia though)

You can read/edit the bill in fill here and so far, this is actually looking pretty good.
This infographic is a bit simplistic, and I'm still not 100% convinced their definition of 'Foreign rogue websites' wont still be too broad, but it sure is pretty...


To those who are completely against the whole idea of 'net control' then this will still be doubleplusbad, and Ill reserve judgement on it for now as I simply don't trust creeps like Smith and Dodd not to remove bits they/the MPAAetc. don't like at the last minute, but it looks like this may do the job.

Sounds to good to be true? We just gotta keep watching...





Watcher wrote:I don't know about you, but [as an Australian] I'm still chuckling over how the American Government has the audacity to believe it can legislate on a global scale...!
I will always <3 the Aussies for this. Oh, wait - I actually meant this ;) Seriously, good work lads.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby DISCHARGE » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:14 pm

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Watcher wrote:I don't know about you, but [as an Australian] I'm still chuckling over how the American Government has the audacity to believe it can legislate on a global scale...!


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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby SirSoundwaveIV » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:15 pm

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yeah I have hopes for OPEN, like I've stated, I'm concerned for the main reasons you are though Psych. Hopefully it gets patched up a bit and they block out Smith and his MPAA/RIAA cronies from adding restrictive crap onto this.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby SlyTF1 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:34 pm

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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Shadowman » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:37 pm

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DISCHARGE wrote:
Watcher wrote:I don't know about you, but [as an Australian] I'm still chuckling over how the American Government has the audacity to believe it can legislate on a global scale...!


MONEY


Well, the World Intellectual Property Organization is part of the UN, so I think that figures into it somehow.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby prowl123 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:25 pm

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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Burn » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:20 pm

Psychout wrote:I actually meant this ;) Seriously, good work lads.


That one is far from over however. Because of that I stayed away from iiNet when I changed ISP's.

Only to have them buy out my current ISP last month. :lol:
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Baneblade » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:06 am

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Burn wrote:
Psychout wrote:I actually meant this ;) Seriously, good work lads.


That one is far from over however. Because of that I stayed away from iiNet when I changed ISP's.

Only to have them buy out my current ISP last month. :lol:


I do beleive that irony is present??? ~snikker~
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Vicalliose » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:15 pm

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Personally I think there does not need to be copyright reform of any kind, unless it reduces the federal government's right to enforce them. No exceptions. Although as far as I can tell OPEN makes it sound as if it would actually add additional processes to filing claims. And For some reason it would only affect ISPs hosted outside the US that do 'business' in the US... what?

Businesses need to figure out how to deal with people copying digital information on their own. Maybe MegaUploads plans were best. Of course it could take out the middle man so... corporate heads would kinda be f***ed.

Edit: I read Forbes views on OPEN, I never realized he was such a moronic corporate ****. Oh well I guess I'll continue down the path of hating everyone with money. Man I feel like I've been flipped upside down in the course of four years.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Shadowman » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:49 pm

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Vicalliose wrote:Maybe MegaUploads plans were best.


Megaupload's plans involved paying people for uploading things, even, perhaps especially pirated content. That's illegal even without SOPA. They weren't just cutting out the middle man, they were cutting out the artist, too.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Vicalliose » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:35 pm

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Shadowman wrote:
Vicalliose wrote:Maybe MegaUploads plans were best.


Megaupload's plans involved paying people for uploading things, even, perhaps especially pirated content. That's illegal even without SOPA. They weren't just cutting out the middle man, they were cutting out the artist, too.

Agh, you make a point. F*** it then I just don't care. Also I hate Japan now, life sucks.

Also my brother noted to me that the reason OPEN only considers foreign sites infringers is because the private sector already has the tools to deal with US hosted sites. I suppose that makes sense.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Psychout » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:32 pm

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Megauploads motives are yet to be proved, but they are somewhat suspect, we must accept that at least.

Their Megabox service would have revolutionised music downloading though and would have killed iTunes, I really hope someone continues with that.


At least those who lost out when Megaupload was binned are trying to get their money/files back
MegaUpload Users Plan to Sue the FBI over Lost Files - Torrentfreak.com wrote:In a response, Pirate Parties worldwide have started to make a list of all the people affected by the raids, and they are planning to file an official complaint against the US authorities.
Whatever you think of Pirates, they aren't taking this laying down.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Shadowman » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:35 pm

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Psychout wrote:Megauploads motives are yet to be proved, but they are somewhat suspect, we must accept that at least.

Their Megabox service would have revolutionised music downloading though and would have killed iTunes, I really hope someone continues with that.


At least those who lost out when Megaupload was binned are trying to get their money/files back
MegaUpload Users Plan to Sue the FBI over Lost Files - Torrentfreak.com wrote:In a response, Pirate Parties worldwide have started to make a list of all the people affected by the raids, and they are planning to file an official complaint against the US authorities.
Whatever you think of Pirates, they aren't taking this laying down.


Isn't this exactly what hard drives and flash drives are for? Considering the vast number of methods of storing data that aren't Megaupload, they don't really have much of a case.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Burn » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:53 pm

Shadowman wrote:Isn't this exactly what hard drives and flash drives are for? Considering the vast number of methods of storing data that aren't Megaupload, they don't really have much of a case.


Call me crazy but i'm fairly certain the engineering boys at work, who put something together in Autodesk Inventor which may be a few hundred megabytes in size, wouldn't want to be sending said file to colleagues overseas via snail mail.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Shadowman » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:18 am

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Burn wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Isn't this exactly what hard drives and flash drives are for? Considering the vast number of methods of storing data that aren't Megaupload, they don't really have much of a case.


Call me crazy but i'm fairly certain the engineering boys at work, who put something together in Autodesk Inventor which may be a few hundred megabytes in size, wouldn't want to be sending said file to colleagues overseas via snail mail.


That has nothing to do with what's going on. That said, pack it into a .RAR or .ZIP file, upload it to an e-mail, and send it that way. A few hundred megabytes is peanuts anyway.

The problem isn't about not being able to transfer files, it's about files being completely lost because of the shutdown. Files that any sane person would have kept on their hard drive.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Burn » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:55 am

It's not just about lost files. What about productivity lost? What about deadlines missed because of different time zones and the lack of notice about the take down?

And really, zip it up and pop it in an e-mail? A lot of companies put restrictions on the size of attachments.

Whatever ... we'll never truly know how many legitimate users were affected by the take down and how much it cost their businesses.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Shadowman » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:24 am

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Burn wrote:It's not just about lost files. What about productivity lost? What about deadlines missed because of different time zones and the lack of notice about the take down?


I'm going to guess none, tops. You're taking an exaggerated worst-case-scenario and posing it like that's all that happened. And even if it did, they'll find another way. It's a big internet, there's always another solution.

And if the files were lost, it's the user's own fault. I've learned long ago, the internet is not a safe place to keep anything you don't want to lose. Servers are only reliable up until they break, and they do break.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Psychout » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:33 am

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Shadowman wrote:
Burn wrote:It's not just about lost files. What about productivity lost? What about deadlines missed because of different time zones and the lack of notice about the take down?


I'm going to guess none, tops. You're taking an exaggerated worst-case-scenario and posing it like that's all that happened. And even if it did, they'll find another way. It's a big internet, there's always another solution.

And if the files were lost, it's the user's own fault. I've learned long ago, the internet is not a safe place to keep anything you don't want to lose. Servers are only reliable up until they break, and they do break.

Think about it his way, indie developers, amateur/freelance writers and artists need an convenient online space to store large files securely. Those without the technical know how or funds for an IT department could pay $200 dollars for a lifetimes membership with limitless uploads, storage with an international network to distribute their files and work, and a place accessible by business partners wherever in the world they are in case any changes needed to be made. Flash drives and laptops can be stolen, hard drives can get corrupted, online storage was treated by many as futureproof.

The fact is that people have lost legitimate work, regardless of your opinion of their business practices, and therefore - with it being America and all - they have have right to be compensated.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Vicalliose » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:00 am

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Another thing that's come to my attention is that allot of my game modding sites also have to use big file hosting sites when their files exceeded a limit on the modding site itself. Also some of the less than savory users are in the habit of uploading content ripped from other games. And most of the legit stuff is still based directly off of something from another game. Then again there's usually no money involved for the modders themselves so I suppose there's nothing to be too worried about.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Bumblevivisector » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:40 am

So, any chance of Seibertron.com getting behind protests of CISPA?

It's not exactly like SOPA/PIPA, but it would give the government and corporations the power to quash the 1st Amendment online, as long as they claim it's for "cybersecurity".

And there's that deal ISPs made with the RIAA and MPAA to constantly spy on their users for any "piracy", and some backroom deal Chris Dodd just made with Obama to enact some sort of "Back-Door SOPA/PIPA" without any approval from congress.

Just wanted to make sure this was brought up, since the technology companies DON'T have our backs this time, and I thought this the best thread for it.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby OptiMagnus » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:45 pm

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Bumblevivisector wrote:So, any chance of Seibertron.com getting behind protests of CISPA?

It's not exactly like SOPA/PIPA, but it would give the government and corporations the power to quash the 1st Amendment online, as long as they claim it's for "cybersecurity".

And there's that deal ISPs made with the RIAA and MPAA to constantly spy on their users for any "piracy", and some backroom deal Chris Dodd just made with Obama to enact some sort of "Back-Door SOPA/PIPA" without any approval from congress.

Just wanted to make sure this was brought up, since the technology companies DON'T have our backs this time, and I thought this the best thread for it.

I highly doubt there is any "backroom deal" without Congressional approval. If there was it would be all over the news. This whole SOPA/PIPA concept is way too hard to pass through as law and I think it will be abandoned sooner or later. I think the repercussions from the public would defeat the benefits.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby Bumblevivisector » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:25 pm

OptiMagnus wrote:
Bumblevivisector wrote:So, any chance of Seibertron.com getting behind protests of CISPA?

It's not exactly like SOPA/PIPA, but it would give the government and corporations the power to quash the 1st Amendment online, as long as they claim it's for "cybersecurity".

And there's that deal ISPs made with the RIAA and MPAA to constantly spy on their users for any "piracy", and some backroom deal Chris Dodd just made with Obama to enact some sort of "Back-Door SOPA/PIPA" without any approval from congress.

Just wanted to make sure this was brought up, since the technology companies DON'T have our backs this time, and I thought this the best thread for it.

I highly doubt there is any "backroom deal" without Congressional approval. If there was it would be all over the news. This whole SOPA/PIPA concept is way too hard to pass through as law and I think it will be abandoned sooner or later. I think the repercussions from the public would defeat the benefits.

The problem with any of this making the news is that it's something media companies don't want in the news, so it gets drowned out. I don't remember seeing any story about SOPA/PIPA on TV until the day before the blackout (of course, I can't watch every channel), and even then the newscasters seemed to have orders to be as dismissive as possible of internet users' concerns.

Though I agree that it is odd this has only come out online, since "conspiracy between Obama and liberal Hollywood to undermine Constitution" is just the sort of accusation Republicans would love to throw out at a rally. Heck, I'd love to see that happen, since that could create enough pressure to get the President to scuttle the deal and veto CISPA. It already has 106 supporters in the House, but the Senate might barely kill it, since they took more direct heat from PIPA than the House did from SOPA. Still, there's no guarantees this time, since a lot of tech companies and FACEBOOK(!) are backing CISPA. If the MPAA gets in on that deal, then get set to read nothing but positive reviews on IMDB, some of which used to be honest but negative reviews by you, still in your name!

Whether or not this passes, better get to know your local ACLU office and a good Constitutional law attorney; this is gonna' be one ugly decade.

Sorry about the rant, but word is spreading slower this time without help from tech companies, so I'm bringing it up wherever I appropriately can.
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Re: SOPA and PIPA: the bills which could end Seibertron.com, your favorite websites, and the Internet!

Postby OptiMagnus » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:34 pm

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Bumblevivisector wrote:
OptiMagnus wrote:
Bumblevivisector wrote:
The problem with any of this making the news is that it's something media companies don't want in the news, so it gets drowned out. I don't remember seeing any story about SOPA/PIPA on TV until the day before the blackout (of course, I can't watch every channel), and even then the newscasters seemed to have orders to be as dismissive as possible of internet users' concerns.

Though I agree that it is odd this has only come out online, since "conspiracy between Obama and liberal Hollywood to undermine Constitution" is just the sort of accusation Republicans would love to throw out at a rally. Heck, I'd love to see that happen, since that could create enough pressure to get the President to scuttle the deal and veto CISPA. It already has 106 supporters in the House, but the Senate might barely kill it, since they took more direct heat from PIPA than the House did from SOPA. Still, there's no guarantees this time, since a lot of tech companies and FACEBOOK(!) are backing CISPA. If the MPAA gets in on that deal, then get set to read nothing but positive reviews on IMDB, some of which used to be honest but negative reviews by you, still in your name!

Whether or not this passes, better get to know your local ACLU office and a good Constitutional law attorney; this is gonna' be one ugly decade.

Sorry about the rant, but word is spreading slower this time without help from tech companies, so I'm bringing it up wherever I appropriately can.

Note the sentence I highlighted. Many things come out online but don't get national attention because they are made up by extremely biased people on whatever side of the political spectrum. Heck, there are websites that say my church is tricking me and all of its followers around the world into worshiping Satan himself! Don't believe everything you read on this vast modern cyberspace.
But as you said, things like this might start a good chain reaction in our favor. Yes, there are a lot of powerful companies supporting these laws for reasons which are somewhat understandable to me, but this is the United States of America, and in the end the side who causes the most ruckus will win.
Please note: If you think I may be joking, I probably am.
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #105 - Megatronus
Twincast / Podcast #105:
"Megatronus"
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Posted: Sunday, November 23rd, 2014