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fenrir72 wrote:Who are the sponsors of this bill? Democrat or Republican? More or less likely a Democrat! Ronald Reagan's policy allowed our hobby, Transformers collecting possible through his liberalization of stupid government policies that forbade cartoons that "advertised" products(in this case, the old TF show) aimed towards kids.

Now we have this monstrosity? Once the shit hits the fan......! Like Pandora's box, the far reaching implications are to terrible to contemplate!

Btw,if Hollywood is the prime movers behind this? Then......who runs Hollywood btw aside from the corporate/trial lawyer clique( whose primary ethnicity is...........)?

Those types really have their tentacles all over the popular cultures that it makes you wonder why they are so detested world wide!

Well it was started by a democrat. But **** me if I actually could remember the name of who it was. Though it's mostly being backed by republicans in the house and senate, mainly because they have no idea what it is, but what few democrats are in are voting against it so they feel the need to vote for it. It could be puppeteering though, Dems are good at making republicans look stupid... -er.

LiKwid wrote:Im really at a loss for words here.. I never eally paid any attention to this whole situation because I figured it would get shot down but I admit my stupidity on this..

What is the real gain from this bill passing? I mean, no one wins in this situation.. It almost brings a tear to my eye that people out there would do something like this...

Well, big business wins since wealth automatically exempts people from everything. And it sorts out the government's fears of how much power the internet has given people.

Vicalliose wrote:corporations

Stop saying that all the time. People keep blaming corporations for things, it's the most cliched argument you can make. And it's not even true, it's just a big generalization.

Vicalliose wrote:Look. Our government has destroyed capitalism. How? They've over-regulated and over taxed business, thus making big businesses the only ones that can survive and thrive. These huge corporations have outsourced all their production to other countries to avoid regulations and because of this America has become a consumer only nation. Our economy simply cannot grow. But big business is happy because there is no competition. They do not care that their system is destined to fail. Every time a new overbearing law is passed, it causes the small man to fall and the big man keeps climbing the ladder.

Except EVERYONE has a competitor. Do you not watch TV? Do you not see how half of all ads are "Our competitors product sucks but our product rocks"?

Here's an example: You know why people shop at Wal-Mart? Because it has everything. (Though I prefer Meijers, it's about the same, though not as widespread, a lot of people here probably don't know about it) So people go there for all the stuff they want in one place, at cheaper prices, instead of Mom-and-Pop local stores. It's not because Wal-Mart is an evil corporate entity, it's not because the government overtaxed the Mom-and-Pop stores. It's because Wal-Mart just did their job better.

fenrir72 wrote:Who are the sponsors of this bill? Democrat or Republican?

Both. Lamar Smith (R-TX) started SOPA, with co-sponsers Howard Berman (D-CA), Marsha Blackburn (R-TN), Mary Bono Mack (R-CA), Steve Chabot (R-OH), John Conyers (D-MI), Ted Deutch (D-FL), Elton Gallegly (R-CA), Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), Timothy Griffin (R-AR), Dennis A. Ross (R-FL), Adam Schiff (D-CA) and Lee Terry (R-NE).

Vicalliose wrote:Well, big business wins since wealth automatically exempts people from everything.

Except for Kenneth Lay, though he technically got away with it by dying from a heart attack instead of serving the 45 year prison sentence for everything he did with Enron.

EDIT: Also Rod Blagojevich, former Governor of Illinois, convicted of a felony. And former Senator Ted "series of tubes" Stevens, who was at least indicted, though it was voided due to gross prosecutorial misconduct. (He died in a plane crash a year later, though)

Just because rich and powerful people don't always get punished doesn't mean they always get away with it.

Shadowman wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:corporations

Stop saying that all the time. People keep blaming corporations for things, it's the most cliched argument you can make. And it's not even true, it's just a big generalization.

Its obviously not all corporations, but the ones at the very high end who make the money that basically sustains the nations economy are corporations that do in fact have dealings with the government to ensure that both can exist without the threat of defecit due to unstable global economy. I can't claim to know too much, but I do know that there is enough blame to go around on the corporate level for things like oil, pharmaceuticals, etc.

If corporations had no dealings with government... then why are there so many lobbyists?

I've just discovered that the bill has been updated now. Rep. Lamar Smith, chairman of the house judiciary committee, has announced that he is removing the DNS blocking provision from SOPA.

It's a step in the right direction at least.

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Vicalliose wrote:corporations

Stop saying that all the time. People keep blaming corporations for things, it's the most cliched argument you can make. And it's not even true, it's just a big generalization.

Its obviously not all corporations, but the ones at the very high end who make the money that basically sustains the nations economy are corporations that do in fact have dealings with the government to ensure that both can exist without the threat of defecit due to unstable global economy. I can't claim to know too much, but I do know that there is enough blame to go around on the corporate level for things like oil, pharmaceuticals, etc.

If corporations had no dealings with government... then why are there so many lobbyists?

Lobbyists are people who try to directly influence the government to do things for their organizations, not all of them are corporate. (Not all of them succeed, either)

Hey, Seibertron. This article needs to be sticky and/or a banner with link. I fully support following the blackout, hopefully with a splash page explaining what's going on and how to help. I don't know how I'll make it through the 18th without my Transformers news. Maybe I can fine a nice warm cave somewhere until this all blows over. Then if/when these bills get passed I'll have a head start on my future subterranean abode. I've been following the site for about as long as it's existed and know it's the little guys who are going to get the worst of this. You said it, it's scary. We can't keep taking one step forward and two steps back or we're never going to get any progress done anywhere. KEEP THE INTERNET ALIVE! SUPPORT SEIBERTRON.COM!

Kill bill.

Shadowman wrote:Except EVERYONE has a competitor. Do you not watch TV? Do you not see how half of all ads are "Our competitors product sucks but our product rocks"?

You mean insurance companies? They don't produce anything, thus they do not count in this argument.

Shadowman wrote:Here's an example: You know why people shop at Wal-Mart? Because it has everything. (Though I prefer Meijers, it's about the same, though not as widespread, a lot of people here probably don't know about it) So people go there for all the stuff they want in one place, at cheaper prices, instead of Mom-and-Pop local stores. It's not because Wal-Mart is an evil corporate entity, it's not because the government overtaxed the Mom-and-Pop stores. It's because Wal-Mart just did their job better.

Wal-Mart has more money and the small "mom-and-pop" shop is simply unable to compete and unable to grow. Why Do they have lower prices? Because they can dodge or eat regulations and taxes that smaller companies simply cannot. They got that way because they cut corners and lobby to the government. Also because they have stock holders, the only people they care about, which is another huge problem with business these days. Big business also doesn't seem to care that the more they outsource the more they hurt the American economy.

And technically Wal-Mart is just a retail outlet. So I don't think they count either.

This bill is so unAmerican that even if it did pass Congress and Senate, there is almost no way the President would approve it as he has been a big proponent of NOT censoring the Internet. If he caved like he has about just about everything involving the Congress and Senate so far, it still needs to be reviewed by the Supreme Court who would almost assuredly rule it to violate the Constitution in very obvious ways. This country is heading toward a point of social revolution, and reducing the Internet to millions of websites with no other content except how much the government and the corporations it supports sucks creates a very effective breeding ground for organized revolt.

The Internet was fun while it lasted, but if it is to come to an end, we've survived without it before; we'll survive without it again. With more companies depending on the Internet to provide a growing percentage of their revenue, I think they will feel the effects of the end of the Internet much more than we will. The poor primarily rely on the Internet for information and entertainment, and both we've been able to generate on our own for decades before the Internet. The rich rely on the Internet for sales dollars, and they aren't going to like something that has killed their bottom line.

Personally, I think one of two things should happen. I think the Internet should go dark from now until the 24th, including the major news agencies. We would find other things to do with our time, but Congressmen who rely on the Internet for news and businesses who rely on the Internet for revenue? They would really feel the end result of these bills. Failing that, I really think this should be an issue left to the American people to vote on in November.

If this gets passed, I think we should automatically vote against any politician who supported the bills and vote in any politician whose goal it is to repeal them as soon as they take office. Show Congress that they won the battle for their lobbyists at the expense of their jobs, and show corporations that all the billions of dollars they throw at Congress still doesn't overpower the voice of a unified nation.

Vicalliose and Shadowman, please take the argument elsewhere. Pointless debate only serves to confuse the issue. This thread is to discuss the bill itself, it's effects and how we can help raise awareness of it. You are both clearly knowledgeable about the subject, how about you put your efforts into ways we can help spread the word and/or help to stop it?

Blozor wrote: this should be an issue left to the American people to vote on in November.

That would be true, but it's not just America impacted by this, and whilst congress is beginning to stutter on rushing this through, there is no guarantee it won't be passed by then.