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Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Transformers 3 is scheduled to be released on July 1st, 2011. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

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Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Bonecrusher27 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:32 pm

My mind's still reeling and I'll probably have lots more to say at some point, but without fully reading all the other reviews I suspect much of it would be repetitious. So I'll just say a couple of things which stuck out. In case the subject heading isn't sufficient, there are some spoilers in here so don't read if you don't want them.

Megan

I'm not exactly a fan of Megan Fox, but I was extremely unhappy by how they handled the departure of Mikaela from the franchise.

I was very curious to see how they'd explain her away. In fact, it seems that the easiest way out was taken. They simply disregarded continuity and tried to erase her. For instance, and presumably right after the events of ROTF, when Sam receives his medal from President Obama, she isn't even a factor. Sam's already trying to hook up with Carly. Where references to Mikaela were made, they seemed to be trying to sully her memory and make little stabs at Megan Fox along the way. The story goes that Mikaela dumped Sam for someone better. There are several remarks about how Sam is looking for someone who will love him for him, etc. This did not agree with what we'd seen of Mikaela's character in the first two movies. There are also little jibs and jabs. For example there is a scene where a Megan Fox type of person appears in the background and something snide is said about that. A couple of scenes with Sam's parents had some remarks that were unflattering as well.

There were quite a few rumours about how they'd explain Mikaela away over the last year. I recall one that speculated that she'd been killed. I thought that was far fetched, but in retrospect I wouldn't have minded that. The part right before the scene where Bumblebee pulls out the rings feel a lot more appropriate if it had been Mikaela. You'll know what I mean when you watch it.

Maybe someone who's read the novel can tell me if Mikaela is more satisfactorily explained away.

Megatron

What an entrance for Megatron, promising huge things to come. Unfortunately, after an impressive arrival scene, proving once and for all they've found a Megatron that finally looks good and isn't crap, that's pretty much it.

I had fantasized a Battle of the Trailers reminiscent of a Prime vs Motormaster showdown. Unfortunately, he becomes almost like an afterthought, playing insignificantly throughout the movie, and serving simply as a plot device at the climactic scene between Prime and Sentinel.

Even then, that last battle between Prime and Megatron seemed so rushed and forced as to beggar belief. When Prime can defeat and kill him with one arm, that just doesn't agree with the fight scenes we've seen in TFTM and especially in ROTF. Here's another continuity error (in fact there are probably a lot more of them than I registered) which for me anyway, damped my experience of DOTM.

Michael Bay has openly stated that he was unhappy with how the fight between Prime and the Fallen was truncated from the epic scene he originally wanted, but was unable to pull off due to time and budgetary constraints. I wonder what he would have to say now, to have a One Armed Prime kill Megatron in under ten seconds. Some people complain that Starscream's or Shockwave's death too. At least those death scenes took enough time to set up and made sense and superficially satisfied logic. Megatron's death was so rushed, so quick and so abrupt, that it almost seems like they spent 95% of the fight/ character budget on Sentinel and Leonard Nimoy (THOSE I am not complaining about! Excellent fight scenes), and threw whatever they could to make up the 5% with Megatron and Hugo Weaving.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Cheesinator » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:44 pm

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Total agreement about Megatron. His first two scenes are really cool (where he has the meeting with Soundwave and Starcream, and then when he blasts Lincoln), but after that he basically does nothing. It was totally AWESOME to see him beat the crap outta Sentinel, but the 'fight' between him and Prime afterwards was ridiculous.

1. Despite being armed with his gun, a bit of a distance away from Optimus and in full fighting condition, he just stands there and does nothing as Optimus (who is severely injured and lacking a freaking arm) attacks him.
2. In this one scene, Megatron actively saves Optimus' life (he could have let Sentinel kill him, and then shoot Sentinel, or could have killed the weakened Optimus himself, but chose to do neither), and then offers peace. Optimus responds by immediately murdering him. I can't be the only one who thought there was something wrong with this.

Don't get me wrong, I'd have been fine with seeing Megatron die, but I would have much, much rather have seen Megatron kill Sentinel and then try to kill Optimus, and THEN get killed (even if the scuffle was still a one-sided execution), so he doesn't come off as the one being vaguely heroic. But the way it actually played out just made Optimus look like a psychopath.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Bonecrusher27 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:26 pm

Cheesinator wrote:2. In this one scene, Megatron actively saves Optimus' life (he could have let Sentinel kill him, and then shoot Sentinel, or could have killed the weakened Optimus himself, but chose to do neither), and then offers peace. Optimus responds by immediately murdering him. I can't be the only one who thought there was something wrong with this.


I've heard people keep saying this! I have to watch it again later. I didn't pick up that Megatron offered peace. I thought he killed Sentinel first so he could finish of Prime himself.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Starscream GaGa » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:36 pm

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Bonecrusher27 wrote:I've heard people keep saying this! I have to watch it again later. I didn't pick up that Megatron offered peace. I thought he killed Sentinel first so he could finish of Prime himself.


"What we need is a truce, all that I ask is that I keep my command. Besides, where would you be without me?"
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Bonecrusher27 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:49 pm

Starscream GaGa wrote:
Bonecrusher27 wrote:I've heard people keep saying this! I have to watch it again later. I didn't pick up that Megatron offered peace. I thought he killed Sentinel first so he could finish of Prime himself.


"What we need is a truce, all that I ask is that I keep my command. Besides, where would you be without me?"


Sh!7 You memorized this from one watching??? Damn if this is true it would really sour the entire movie and my opinion of Optimus Prime for this franchise. WTF was going on in their heads when they wrapped up the movie?
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Starscream GaGa » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:54 pm

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Bonecrusher27 wrote:Sh!7 You memorized this from one watching??? Damn if this is true it would really sour the entire movie and my opinion of Optimus Prime for this franchise. WTF was going on in their heads when they wrapped up the movie?


I was watching the scene very carefully, lol. I was really hoping the rumours about the changed ending were false.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Bonecrusher27 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:27 pm

Starscream GaGa wrote:
I was watching the scene very carefully, lol. I was really hoping the rumours about the changed ending were false.


Please educate me. What changed ending, what rumours?
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby zenosaurus_x » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:38 pm

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I didn't read the Megatron part, wanted to remain spoiler free on that.
But on Fox...they really just wrote her out?
Honestly, I figured they would kill her off. I have nothing against her, but that seemed the only logical way to go, doesn't make sense that after the TransFormery stuff they went through she just....leaves.
Didn't fit the character.

"What we need is a truce, all that I ask is that I keep my command. Besides, where would you be without me?"

I'll never see Prime the same. Really, he just kills him RIGHT THERE? That's not even right, it's not even like Prime. I still think he's awesome, but just because of this Megatron's ascended so far above him to me.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Bonecrusher27 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:45 pm

zenosaurus_x wrote:I didn't read the Megatron part, wanted to remain spoiler free on that.
But on Fox...they really just wrote her out?
Honestly, I figured they would kill her off. I have nothing against her, but that seemed the only logical way to go, doesn't make sense that after the TransFormery stuff they went through she just....leaves.
Didn't fit the character.


From my perspective, it seemed to almost be a diss to Megan Fox/ Mikaela. Being killed, even completely unmentioned would have been better. But they do reference her, but in a negative light. Little snubs and sideways insults... even a scene with a Megan Fox-type girl.

I'm not a romance guy, but I do like continuity in trilogies. They set up the love story in parts 1 and 2, and what happened between Sam and Carly in 3 could have fitted the romance arc so nicely. If you've seen it, you'll know what I mean, especially some lines that are exchanged towards the end.

Still, since I wrote that I realised there are savants here who have almost memorized the movie through one sitting! So perhaps we should wait for them to weigh in with their takes lol :lol:
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby GodMagnus » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:00 pm

I also want to mention that little chat Carly had with Megatron felt like it should have been Mikaela saying that instead.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Capt.Failure » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:08 pm

Three attempts to destroy Earth. Uncountable human casualties. Betrayed the Cybertronians before and convinced Sentinel to betray the Autobots.

And letting him live really seems like a good idea? If you ask me, he had it coming. That entire scene came off as Megatron saying, "I just shot the guy I promised to work with because I wanna be in charge! Wanna work together, despite all the crap I've pulled across three films and the countless human and Autobot deaths I've inflicted?"

I don't question Optimus' judgement there for a second. He had to die.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby alternator77 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:17 pm

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now i want a leader megatron with removable head and spine for a diorama :lol:

cant wait to see it.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Starscream GaGa » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:17 pm

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Capt.Failure wrote:Three attempts to destroy Earth. Uncountable human casualties. Betrayed the Cybertronians before and convinced Sentinel to betray the Autobots.

And letting him live really seems like a good idea? If you ask me, he had it coming. That entire scene came off as Megatron saying, "I just shot the guy I promised to work with because I wanna be in charge! Wanna work together, despite all the crap I've pulled across three films and the countless human and Autobot deaths I've inflicted?"

I don't question Optimus' judgement there for a second. He had to die.


Are you denying the scene felt forced and all previous foreshadowing suggested it was going to end in the same way as the comic and novel?

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Please educate me. What changed ending, what rumours?


The novel and comic ended with Optimus agreeing to a truce and Megatron taking the Decepticons back to Cybertron to rebuild, promising to send for the Autobots when it was habitable again. Of course, it seems really obvious that this was originally intended to be the ending.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Capt.Failure » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:24 pm

Starscream GaGa wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:Three attempts to destroy Earth. Uncountable human casualties. Betrayed the Cybertronians before and convinced Sentinel to betray the Autobots.

And letting him live really seems like a good idea? If you ask me, he had it coming. That entire scene came off as Megatron saying, "I just shot the guy I promised to work with because I wanna be in charge! Wanna work together, despite all the crap I've pulled across three films and the countless human and Autobot deaths I've inflicted?"

I don't question Optimus' judgement there for a second. He had to die.


Are you denying the scene felt forced and all previous foreshadowing suggested it was going to end in the same way as the comic and novel?

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Please educate me. What changed ending, what rumours?


The novel and comic ended with Optimus agreeing to a truce and Megatron taking the Decepticons back to Cybertron to rebuild, promising to send for the Autobots when it was habitable again. Of course, it seems really obvious that this was originally intended to be the ending.


What I believe is that the novel ending is forced. There is no reason for Megatron do go back on his motivations to rule Cybertron and destroy Earth (saving Cybertron was just a bonus at this point). To have him totally change goals and personality like that would be the absolute dumbest thing they could have done. I much perfer how the film ended.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby GodMagnus » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:25 pm

Capt.Failure wrote:Three attempts to destroy Earth. Uncountable human casualties. Betrayed the Cybertronians before and convinced Sentinel to betray the Autobots.

And letting him live really seems like a good idea? If you ask me, he had it coming. That entire scene came off as Megatron saying, "I just shot the guy I promised to work with because I wanna be in charge! Wanna work together, despite all the crap I've pulled across three films and the countless human and Autobot deaths I've inflicted?"

I don't question Optimus' judgement there for a second. He had to die.



I wouldn't say that he convinced Sentinel Prime to do anything. In the first movie, Ironhide saw the humans as pests. The Fallen, who was a Prime, looked down on the humans. So I don't think it's a stretch for Sentinel Prime to choose to side with Megatron for the greater good for Cybertron. It's not like Megatron pulled his arm. He made his case and SP agreed.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Capt.Failure » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:28 pm

GodMagnus wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:Three attempts to destroy Earth. Uncountable human casualties. Betrayed the Cybertronians before and convinced Sentinel to betray the Autobots.

And letting him live really seems like a good idea? If you ask me, he had it coming. That entire scene came off as Megatron saying, "I just shot the guy I promised to work with because I wanna be in charge! Wanna work together, despite all the crap I've pulled across three films and the countless human and Autobot deaths I've inflicted?"

I don't question Optimus' judgement there for a second. He had to die.



I wouldn't say that he convinced Sentinel Prime to do anything. In the first movie, Ironhide saw the humans as pests. The Fallen, who was a Prime, looked down on the humans. So I don't think it's a stretch for Sentinel Prime to choose to side with Megatron for the greater good for Cybertron. It's not like Megatron pulled his arm. He made his case and SP agreed.


The motivation doesn't change the crime in this case.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Starscream GaGa » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:31 pm

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Capt.Failure wrote:What I believe is that the novel ending is forced. There is no reason for Megatron do go back on his motivations to rule Cybertron and destroy Earth (saving Cybertron was just a bonus at this point). To have him totally change goals and personality like that would be the absolute dumbest thing they could have done. I much perfer how the film ended.


I disagree. Especially after the scene of Megatron looking up at Cybertron and how relieved he was that it was safe. Destroying Earth was never Megatron's goal, there hasn't really been anything in the movies to suggest that.

Besides, Megatron still called for a truce, so the only difference was Optimus rejected his request.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Capt.Failure » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:37 pm

Starscream GaGa wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:What I believe is that the novel ending is forced. There is no reason for Megatron do go back on his motivations to rule Cybertron and destroy Earth (saving Cybertron was just a bonus at this point). To have him totally change goals and personality like that would be the absolute dumbest thing they could have done. I much perfer how the film ended.


I disagree. Especially after the scene of Megatron looking up at Cybertron and how relieved he was that it was safe. Destroying Earth was never Megatron's goal, there hasn't really been anything in the movies to suggest that.


Really?

- Use the AllSpark to make an army out of Earth's machines, and act that would wipe out humanity directly or indirectly.
- Activate the Sun Harvester, causing the sun to go dark. Ever see what that does to an in habited planet? It's not pretty.
- Reduce the Earth to slag in order to rebuild Cybertron, enslaving humanity to do all the work. Not to mention we'd be living on an atmosphere free world made of metal. Extinction for humans wouldn't be long coming.

Even if he was happy to see home after so long, it was a selfish happiness. It didn't change his goals or motivations, or his contempt for humans.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Starscream GaGa » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:42 pm

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Capt.Failure wrote:Really?

- Use the AllSpark to make an army out of Earth's machines, and act that would wipe out humanity directly or indirectly.
- Activate the Sun Harvester, causing the sun to go dark. Ever see what that does to an in habited planet? It's not pretty.
- Reduce the Earth to slag in order to rebuild Cybertron, enslaving humanity to do all the work. Not to mention we'd be living on an atmosphere free world made of metal. Extinction for humans wouldn't be long coming.

Even if he was happy to see home after so long, it was a selfish happiness. It didn't change his goals or motivations, or his contempt for humans.


Yes, but the ultimate goal was always the restoration of Cybertron, destroying Earth was just a consequence.

Why would his contempt for humans change?
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Capt.Failure » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:48 pm

Starscream GaGa wrote:
Capt.Failure wrote:Really?

- Use the AllSpark to make an army out of Earth's machines, and act that would wipe out humanity directly or indirectly.
- Activate the Sun Harvester, causing the sun to go dark. Ever see what that does to an in habited planet? It's not pretty.
- Reduce the Earth to slag in order to rebuild Cybertron, enslaving humanity to do all the work. Not to mention we'd be living on an atmosphere free world made of metal. Extinction for humans wouldn't be long coming.

Even if he was happy to see home after so long, it was a selfish happiness. It didn't change his goals or motivations, or his contempt for humans.


Yes, but the ultimate goal was always the restoration of Cybertron, destroying Earth was just a consequence.

Why would his contempt for humans change?


That's my point, it wouldn't and it didn't. And the destruction of a life bearing planet and/or it's inhabitants is hardly a justifiable consequence.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby anDarty » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:29 am

It sort of reminded me of a person holding thier hand out to an animal and getting mauled for it that scene lol...
In retrospect Megatron definately had it coming, but I can't help but feel like Prime could've found another way to deal with him, whatever his motivations (purely selfish no doubt as usual) he did save Primes life. If they wanted Prime to kill him, have Megs say something like 'I wanted to be the one to kill you!' And then Prime, reluctantly has to kill him... seems less messy...
Not to mention, now that all the main 'con leaders have bit the dust, who better to pull the rogues back in line than Megatron?
Seemed like Prime was all too ready to obliterate Megatron, the same charecter he lamented losing 'as a brother' in the first one.
My two cents... :)
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Capt.Failure » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:52 am

anDarty wrote:It sort of reminded me of a person holding thier hand out to an animal and getting mauled for it that scene lol...
In retrospect Megatron definately had it coming, but I can't help but feel like Prime could've found another way to deal with him, whatever his motivations (purely selfish no doubt as usual) he did save Primes life. If they wanted Prime to kill him, have Megs say something like 'I wanted to be the one to kill you!' And then Prime, reluctantly has to kill him... seems less messy...
Not to mention, now that all the main 'con leaders have bit the dust, who better to pull the rogues back in line than Megatron?
Seemed like Prime was all too ready to obliterate Megatron, the same charecter he lamented losing 'as a brother' in the first one.
My two cents... :)


He lamented him in the first film, but the following two clearly showed Megatron would never stop. I imagine after two more goes Optimus finally got sick of his crap and saw him as beyond redemption.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby anDarty » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:58 am

But he had been putting up with Megatrons crap for a lot longer than that... I mean, wouldn't instigating a war that destroyed your home planet have been a final straw long before they even got to earth? lol
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Capt.Failure » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:07 am

anDarty wrote:But he had been putting up with Megatrons crap for a lot longer than that... I mean, wouldn't instigating a war that destroyed your home planet have been a final straw long before they even got to earth? lol


True. Figure after the guy you didn't want to kill the first time came back and gave you plenty of reasons to want to kill him again, Optimus just stopped caring. :P

Still, the ending of the book was crap. It completely ignores that to rebuild Cybertron that Earth would have to be destroyed. Having Optimus end the conflict with Megatron's death makes more sense plot wise.
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Re: Spoilers: Unhappy About Megan and Megatron

Postby Starscream GaGa » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:24 am

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A few days ago you were talking about how the ending of the book showed that movie Megatron "wasn't just a Saturday-morning cartoon villain."

Do you just change your mind depending on what's in the actual movie or something?
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