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i would've prefered the barnes family were turned into collateral damage when the 'cons tracked down wheelie and dished out the punishment for defection. preferrably starscream to justify his end in the movie.

Yeah, it was pretty obvious that Carly was just Mikaela with just enough script changes to call her Carly. The way the whole thing went, screamed Sam/Mikaela from the first two movies, with them getting engaged at the end.

As for Megatron, I admit he was pretty useless in this movie. I accepted it though considering he was still pretty rough from the last battle in Egypt. People talking about him not doing much, or getting killed so easily at the end? Given how run down and dilapidated he was, I'm surprised he didn't just drop dead because of his head injury or when Sentinal squished his wound.

Screamfleet wrote:Sentinel was clearly not out to kill optimus. He spared him once, and was sparing him again, he didn't outright kill him. He was certainly trying to incapacitate him. Removing a limb, not his head.

Actually, he seemed pretty bloodthirsty (or energonthirsty) to me, After he had Prime down he had his blade raised to sink it down into Optimus's inards (until Megatron intervened).... that doesn't seem so innocent to me

Megatron was not offering a truce in the sense of "I want peace." What he was saying was let him live with what he has left and he will go without a fight. Megatron was beat. His army was in utter ruin. He wanted to escape. He figures Optimus owed him one and he had an out.

BUT

Optimus let Megatron escape in ROTF and look where it got him. He was PISSED at what Megatron had done with Sentinel. So many lives lost (both human and transfomer) that he had no choice but to off him right there. People talk about how brutal Optimus was... do we forget he ripped off the Fallen's face a movie before?

This is like the 3rd time Prime has executed a disabled opponent. Leaves a bad taste pretty much every time. Megaton was practically dying and he just ripped his head off. Sentinel was also disabled ans pleading for mercy they he blew him away, as well.

It also stings that we lost Mikaela for a girl that was totally useless. Also, I've been wondering, how did Carly even know who Megatron was? I don't think she even interacted with him before.

First off, as ussual, people are never happy. And thats ok. Thats what the forums are for.
As far as the whole Megan Fox issue, i don't see any stabs at her. Sam said she dumped him. How's that a stab? Becides, we got someone who is a far better actress.

Red 50 wrote:The way I see it (Not that anyone cares, though) is this:Megatron offers truce to Optimus, but in term that he'll be the leader. That obviously doesn't equal with freedom for which Optimus stands for. So he delivers Megatron what he had coming for a long time. Megatron is caught off his guard by this and he doesn't have even a slightest chance. Then Optimus turns to disarmed Sentinel, his predecessor, his idol, his brother autobot, who had betrayed not only him, but all Autobots and what they stand for. And his act, which caused deaths of countless lives, including a brethren Autobot Ironhide, gets punished by Optimus, including Sentinels greatest error: in attempt to do what he thought was right, he became the very thing he fought against: a tyrannical Decepticon. And what he said:

"Can't you see that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few!"

does not make his errors less forgivable.

Maybe Optimus could have done something different: he could have executed Sentinel mercifully, less painfully, but after Megatron had beat him to almost death, it would have made little difference.

PS: Spoilered just in case.

Wow... I don't know if its the spoiler tags, or that they just wanted to ignore these points, but i'm amazed as to why no one hasn't responded to this coment! This is spot on!

I mean, lets think about this for a second...

-S. Prime not only betrays the Autobots, and everything they stand for, but he point blank shoots Ironhide and kils him!
Can anyone honestly tell me, that this individual deserves to live? Its obvious that S. Prime would have killed every Autobot if needed for his plan to suceed. You obviously can't trust him. He needs to go.

-Yes, Megatron offered up a truce, but lets take a couple things into concideration..

Megs killed Optimus in ROTF. I don't know about you, but if someone offs me, i'm not exactly going to accept their word for a "truce". There's nothing that would suggest that he wouldn't turn on Optimus if he got in the chance.
Also take into concideration..
1.- that "truce" came with a condition... That he (Megatron) remain in charge of Cybertron.
2.- No matter how you look at it, Cybertron was still in ruins. Megatron was counting on human labor to rebuild. How would cybertron be rebuit without the Humans? (the Novel may have covered this)

-Yes, the battle between Megs and Prime was short, but remember Megs was half torn apart and practicly dying. He didn't fight in any other part of the movie;.. He sat down in a corner when cybertron was breaking through earth's atmosphere. He was weak.
He took down S. Prime because his back was turned. He was in no condition for a one on one fight with anyone, let alone an enraged Optimus Prime. Now that leads to another point that people seem to be upset about...

O. Prime was, for the most part, alot more "violent" than in both previous films. But think about it..
The leader that he brought to earth.. The same leader that was once his mentor.. Not only betrays him, but everything that he stood for. This same leader of the Autobots, cause untolds amounts of damage and human deaths. If i were Optimus, I'd be pretty pissed off too and wouldn't exactly be showing mercy to anyone that stood for the decepticon cause. So while i can understand that this may not have been the "loving, compationite Optimus we've known in the past, there was defenatly a reason for his actions. That, IMO, can't be denied.

Everyone's saying "Megs can't be trusted, the truce was obviously a lie".

So why did he make a point to save Optimus, instead of letting Sentinel kill him, and then dispatch Sentinel? Furthermore, after he brings the pain to Sentinel, he could pretty easily have shot at Prime (who was still crawling on the floor at this point). He doesn't. This doesn't absolve him of his previous crimes, but lends weight to the idea that his truce proposal was genuine.

And in regards to how easy Prime killed him; it doesn't matter how 'weak' Megs is at this point, he had a gun and clearly knew how to shoot it, yet just stood there as Prime informs him of his impending demise, grabs his axe and then rushes towards him. If nothing else, I think this indicates how last-minute a change this was to the movie (since we know that in the original story, Prime accepts the truce and there's an additional few minutes of scenes). Like how the Fallen -with all his ridiculous powers- inexplicably decided to try out fisticufs against Optimus, Megs just stood there and got massacred purely in order to keep the fight short in order to save money, or stay within a time constraint or something.

Cheesinator wrote:Everyone's saying "Megs can't be trusted, the truce was obviously a lie".

So why did he make a point to save Optimus, instead of letting Sentinel kill him, and then dispatch Sentinel?

Because he couldn't.

Megatron was weakened to the point he could only help bring down Sentinel and then MAYBE beat a 50% Prime. Megatron cut his loses, pure and simple.

If Prime had agreed, I can 100% see Megatron shotgunning him in the back asap. Why not? He'd never have a better opportunity and without Prime, he could win that war right then and there.

*reads thread, shakes head*

Okay, let's look at this from Optimus Prime's point of view. Let's put ourselves in his shoes for a moment.

From the mind of Optimus:

Megatron beat me nearly to death in Mission City. I was willing to sacrifice myself and leave him unharmed.

Two years later, he tries to kill my human friend by planning on sawing his brains out, and when I saved the kid, Megatron ran his sword through me, front to back and proceeded to shoot my spark chamber clear out of my chest.
Near this same point in time, he does succeed in killing the kid, the kid comes back with the Matrix, saves me.

Two years later, here we are... Megatron's death squads are mass murdering Chicagoans by the thousands, perhaps even a million have died so far. This world and it's people have kept us and protected us, and now he slaughters those I hold most dear. He's destroyed two cities, a priceless monument, and now he offers me a truce where he'll be in command, while he stands over me with my arm missing and he has a loaded gun, which he's just used on his partner in crime, after being double crossed.

He will surely destroy this planet and all of it's people. He will enslave what's left, and that includes us Autobots. And when it's done, he'll turn his weapons on us once more, and we will meet our doom.

He mustn't be allowed to live. He must die, if we and this world are to survive.

As for Sentinel Prime?

I trusted him. He raised me up as though I were his very own. He showed me compassion, he instilled virtues in my upbringing as a person and a soldier. I was led to believe I could trust him. Explicitly.

He conned us. He knew where the Allspark was all along, while we starved and suffered. He wrecked our last chance at hope when he crashed the Ark on the Moon, and then put the humans at risk. (And all along, putting them at risk was his plan.)

He helped slaughter innocent and defenseless humans. Men, women and children. All of them without a hope, all of them without a voice, all of them in agony as they vaporize right before my eyes.

He justifies it with "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". He's wrong. This time? The needs of the many are outweighed by the needs of the few, or the one.

He murdered my friend, in cold blood, execution style. He killed two of my soldiers. Boys who didn't have their heads on straight, but their hearts were big and made of gold, and he dispatched them with no mercy.

He has already betrayed me, he has already betrayed his partner in crime. I'm standing here bleeding, because he severed my arm from my body. I have wounds from dragging myself towards a weapon, while he savagely beat me. My only saving grace was a madman who's offer was peace through tyranny.

After all that's happened, after all this destruction, he lies there on the ground and pleads for mercy, when he's owed none. They say "Mercy is the mark of great man." Well, I I want to be the man who does the right thing. The right thing is to end this and save these people who've given us a home.

The traitor is dangerous, this must come to an end. His spark shall be extinguished.

Now that you've seen it all from Prime's point of view...how can you question his actions?

The one thing I think is a problem for the ending is the pace of the film. The entire movie races to it's 2.5 hour conclusion and this scene is one of those that suffers for the lack of time to develop and gain more depth. However, it doesn't change that Prime DID do the right thing.

Sentinel would've slaughtered us the first chance he had. I mean, an Autobot who is a PRIME? An Autobot who has taught the greatest Autobot who ever lived? The one who taught him that "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings"? After all of that, he makes a deal with Decepticons, considered himself a God, and helps with the annihilation of countless human beings. Innocent human beings. He should've had a bullet fly through the back of head long before it got to the Chicago situation. HE MURDERED, IN COLD BLOOD. Premeditated. Calculated. Cold.

My only regret? The execution should've been more painful, more drawn out, more suffering, and far more violent. He got an easy pass. Two shots and it's over? !@#$ that noise.

I don't think anyone really disputes the reasons why Sentinel and Megatron got killed, since nobody's forgotten that they're EVIL, but the lame way in which the scene was put together makes for a "What the hell just happened?" feeling. That's what I've been able to glean so far, anyhow.

There's bound to be a little criticism on the actions taken when we're struggling to come to terms with Op's revised personality, sure, but the major problem I can see thus far is that once again it all boils down to lack of focus on the Transformers' characters.

In this fan's humble opinion, this is the single weakest point of all the movies, and the one that the majority of fan division stems from. You need only look at the colossal differences in the ways the comics and cartoons handle the focus on relationships and motivations of the Transformers in comparison to the movies to see why it polarizes the fan camps so much.

When it's this drastic a difference it's easy to forget that we all want and expect different things from our favourite giant robots, especially when it comes down to differences between those brought in by the new movies and those who were not.

Tekka wrote:I don't think anyone really disputes the reasons why Sentinel and Megatron got killed, since nobody's forgotten that they're EVIL, but the lame way in which the scene was put together makes for a "What the hell just happened?" feeling. That's what I've been able to glean so far, anyhow.

There's bound to be a little criticism on the actions taken when we're struggling to come to terms with Op's revised personality, sure, but the major problem I can see thus far is that once again it all boils down to lack of focus on the Transformers' characters.

In this fan's humble opinion, this is the single weakest point of all the movies, and the one that the majority of fan division stems from. You need only look at the colossal differences in the ways the comics and cartoons handle the focus on relationships and motivations of the Transformers in comparison to the movies to see why it polarizes the fan camps so much.

When it's this drastic a difference it's easy to forget that we all want and expect different things from our favourite giant robots, especially when it comes down to differences between those brought in by the new movies and those who were not.

As a balanced response to what you're saying, I don't think you're fairly accounting for what film is able to do when compared to comic books.

Written media give focus to the mind's eye in terms of how much or how long text is allowed to settle in for. Film does not have that luxury. It simply can not build up a character in full regard in the confines of 2 hours.

I think that's why the supporting media to the film franchises is important for those who want to flesh it out more (Admittedly, I don't).

At the end of the day, we all want the films to lovingly treat characters we grew up with. But like G1 toys, the films have limited articulation. So we accept them for what they are and allow imagination to fill in the rest.

I don't think you (Tekka) will do this, but I think some others will read my post and think I'm being an apologist for the films. I am not. There are real problems with them stemming largely from the direction of humor in the films. Where action and character development are concerned, I think it's hard to get mad about things that modern film making is not set up to deal with. Either we double the length of the film or cut the cast down to Prime and Bumblebee vs Megatron and whomever to establish their characters.

I respect that they're different beasts with different capabilities. I do believe it stands to reason however that one who favours a particular direction will find it hard to understand the complaints or even praise of one who favours the opposite.

5150 Cruiser wrote: As far as the whole Megan Fox issue, i don't see any stabs at her. Sam said she dumped him. How's that a stab?

not that it's a stab but it is kinda weak to say she just dumps him for no stated reason. at least this is one case that it would've been better to killed a character off.

Optimus Primevil wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote: As far as the whole Megan Fox issue, i don't see any stabs at her. Sam said she dumped him. How's that a stab?

not that it's a stab but it is kinda weak to say she just dumps him for no stated reason. at least this is one case that it would've been better to killed a character off.

Actually Sam says something to the effect of "left me for someone better". And later on, of Carly he says "I've finally found someone who loves me for me." or somesuch. That's dirt cast on memory of the Mikaela character. More directly at Megan Fox, did you notice that scene with at Sam's workplace where his boss is arguing with a Megan Fox-type character? Maybe it's just me, but that scene seems to be a direct thumbs down to Mega Fox.

Tekka wrote:I don't think anyone really disputes the reasons why Sentinel and Megatron got killed, since nobody's forgotten that they're EVIL, but the lame way in which the scene was put together makes for a "What the hell just happened?" feeling. That's what I've been able to glean so far, anyhow.

I'd say that about sums up for me!

Bonecrusher27 wrote:

Optimus Primevil wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote: As far as the whole Megan Fox issue, i don't see any stabs at her. Sam said she dumped him. How's that a stab?

not that it's a stab but it is kinda weak to say she just dumps him for no stated reason. at least this is one case that it would've been better to killed a character off.

Actually Sam says something to the effect of "left me for someone better". And later on, of Carly he says "I've finally found someone who loves me for me." or somesuch. That's dirt cast on memory of the Mikaela character. More directly at Megan Fox, did you notice that scene with at Sam's workplace where his boss is arguing with a Megan Fox-type character? Maybe it's just me, but that scene seems to be a direct thumbs down to Mega Fox.

I'm guessing since Sam went off to college, finnished and wasn't fighting any giant robots, she got bored. It really does fit the character and I'm not surprised.

Don't really care about Megan Fox.

Get over it.
That ship has sailed.

I liked the new girl better

As for Megatron, even if he wanted a truce and helped Optimus out for a brief minute.
He was nothing but Sentinel's b**ch, anyway.

bumble_bee_68 wrote:Don't really care about Megan Fox.

Get over it.
That ship has sailed.

I liked the new girl better

As for Megatron, even if he wanted a truce and helped Optimus out for a brief minute.
He was nothing but Sentinel's b**ch, anyway.

I really didnt like the new girl, its 1 of 2 things i didnt like about the movie, i think she was pretty darn poor, megan wasnt fantastic but she worked better imo.

And Tek, i agree with you, the end was a bit WTF!!!!

Pottermus_Prime wrote:
I really didnt like the new girl, its 1 of 2 things i didnt like about the movie, i think she was pretty darn poor, megan wasnt fantastic but she worked better imo.

What was the other thing?

Counterpunch wrote:

Cheesinator wrote:Everyone's saying "Megs can't be trusted, the truce was obviously a lie".

So why did he make a point to save Optimus, instead of letting Sentinel kill him, and then dispatch Sentinel?

Because he couldn't.

Megatron was weakened to the point he could only help bring down Sentinel and then MAYBE beat a 50% Prime. Megatron cut his loses, pure and simple.

If Prime had agreed, I can 100% see Megatron shotgunning him in the back asap. Why not? He'd never have a better opportunity and without Prime, he could win that war right then and there.

What do you mean "he couldn't"? In order for Optimus to die, all Megatron had to do was stand there and do nothing. Then, immediately after Sentinel guts Optimus, Megatron can shoot Sentinel in the back and tear him up like he did in the movie. We KNOW he had it in him to kill Sentinel, since he basically does so in the film (short of delivering a final blow).

Megatron made a clear point to intervene before Optimus was killed. If he wanted Optimus dead, it would have taken zero effort to let it happen (and I do mean zero; as I said, all he had to do was attack a few seconds later, and we'd have two dead Primes). For whatever reason, Megatron chooses to kill neither, when he could have seen them both dead with almost unfathomable ease.

And that's the main issue with the final scene. Most people would have much preferred to see Megatron try to kill Optimus, which would make his subsequent death totally justified and pretty awesome. It would even have been fine for him to save Optimus purely to kill him by his own hands, but he doesn't even do that. He saved Prime's life to lay the groundworks for a truce, and Prime responds by ripping his spine out.

EDIT- I sound like I'm trying to make Megatron out as some kinda hero. I actually very much dislike that Megatron was suddenly being so level headed and reasonable in those final minutes (while in his intro, he seems to be trying to intimidate elephants), while Optimus went into some kinda bloodrage. The whole scene was messed up, IMO. Not just Optimus being overly violent.

I'd just like to say I find seven pages of Megatron apologists to be quite entertaining. I remember back in '85...

Optimus: *has Megatron at gunpoint*
Fans: KILL HIM! KILL HIM!

And today...

Optimus: *finishes Megatron off, having no reason to trust his word after three films worth of atrocities*
Fans: WTF? Optimus is evil!

Could it have been handeled a little more dramatically, sure, but saying Optimus had no right to kill him? That's just hilarious.

You've misunderstood the issue so much I'm actually kinda impressed.

Everyone accepts Megatron should die. Only reason anyone was surprised is because the book ends differently. What people are annoyed about is that, with no build-up or anything, Megatron basically turns good at the end of the movie. Then, despite this, Optimus kills him in quite a brutal manner.

If Megatron had attacked Optimus, it would have been fine.
If Megatron had just randomly shown up after Optimus kills Sentinel, it would have been fine.
If killing Megatron served any sort of purpose beyond 'Optimus justice', it would have been fine
If Optimus had said a few lines about how Megatron can never be trusted, or something to that effect, it would have been fine.

As it is, Megatron goes out of his way to save Optimus' life, was not being aggressive in any way to Optimus, and was offering peace. Optimus' response was to rip his head off. That's what annoys some people.

I for one am more annoyed that Megatron did what he did at all. I'd rather he tried to kill Sentinel purely in order to have a shot at Optimus himself, and then Optimus goes all Sub-Zero on him.

Cheesinator wrote:
And that's the main issue with the final scene. Most people would have much preferred to see Megatron try to kill Optimus, which would make his subsequent death totally justified and pretty awesome. It would even have been fine for him to save Optimus purely to kill him by his own hands, but he doesn't even do that. He saved Prime's life to lay the groundworks for a truce, and Prime responds by ripping his spine out.

In fact I wonder just how much this was forced when they ran out of time and money. It certainly makes more sense. The ending was so incredible it's hard to believe it was planned from start to finish.

Cheesinator wrote:... I actually very much dislike that Megatron was suddenly being so level headed and reasonable in those final minutes (while in his intro, he seems to be trying to intimidate elephants), while Optimus went into some kinda bloodrage. The whole scene was messed up, IMO. Not just Optimus being overly violent.

Exactly. It reminded me actually of the Megatron from the original series, almost tongue-in-cheek when he says "After all, where would you be without me?"
Which makes Prime's reaction so flippantly bloodthirsty.

In fact, I'm sure it hasn't escaped anyone's notice that as a whole the movie TF IS a very gory film? Most people don't see it because after all, it's just robots and lubricants. But the stuff that is done, if you imagine it done in a film with just people, almost belongs in a horror flick. Even the blood is there, replaced by oil, lubricants or whatever.

Cheesinator wrote:You've misunderstood the issue so much I'm actually kinda impressed.

Everyone accepts Megatron should die. Only reason anyone was surprised is because the book ends differently. What people are annoyed about is that, with no build-up or anything, Megatron basically turns good at the end of the movie. Then, despite this, Optimus kills him in quite a brutal manner.

If Megatron had attacked Optimus, it would have been fine.
If Megatron had just randomly shown up after Optimus kills Sentinel, it would have been fine.
If killing Megatron served any sort of purpose beyond 'Optimus justice', it would have been fine
If Optimus had said a few lines about how Megatron can never be trusted, or something to that effect, it would have been fine.

Well summed. In fact, why have those lines about a truce at all? The only reason I'm thinking it would even be there is to serve as a 'special surprise' to fans who have read the novel thinking they know what's next.

I guess they really were surprised weren't they.

Cheesinator wrote:You've misunderstood the issue so much I'm actually kinda impressed.

Everyone accepts Megatron should die. Only reason anyone was surprised is because the book ends differently. What people are annoyed about is that, with no build-up or anything, Megatron basically turns good at the end of the movie. Then, despite this, Optimus kills him in quite a brutal manner.

If Megatron had attacked Optimus, it would have been fine.
If Megatron had just randomly shown up after Optimus kills Sentinel, it would have been fine.
If killing Megatron served any sort of purpose beyond 'Optimus justice', it would have been fine
If Optimus had said a few lines about how Megatron can never be trusted, or something to that effect, it would have been fine.

As it is, Megatron goes out of his way to save Optimus' life, was not being aggressive in any way to Optimus, and was offering peace. Optimus' response was to rip his head off. That's what annoys some people.

I for one am more annoyed that Megatron did what he did at all. I'd rather he tried to kill Sentinel purely in order to have a shot at Optimus himself, and then Optimus goes all Sub-Zero on him.

Correction: he offered a truce, not peace, with the catch that he was the one to rule Cybertron (and by extension, the Decepticons who just lovingly butchered countless humans). It was never implied he didn't change his goal of destroying Earth and enslaving humanity. There was absolutely no reason for Optimus to do anything but kill him.