Submit News Contact Us Translate Sign in Join

Stats and their effects

Discuss the Heavy Metal War game, report bugs, challenge opponents, and talk some smack! Play the Heavy Metal War game here.

Moderators: Psychout, Burn, Sustain, crazyfists

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby _Anshin_ » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:06 pm

Burn wrote:I'm not N_V.

Its ok, I forgive you. Besides it could be worse, you could be me.
_Anshin_
Brainmaster
Posts: 1389
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Name_Violation » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:12 pm

Motto: "It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
Weapon: Multi-Function Sword
_Anshin_ wrote:
Burn wrote:I'm not N_V.

Its ok, I forgive you. Besides it could be worse, you could be me.

lol.
Image
Fun Toy Banned Because Of Three Stupid Dead Kids :KREMZEEK:
People wrote:zombybunnie: N_V scares me...I no longer wish that my pants transformed
Burn:Anyone notice how much of a boring party pooper N_V is? He doesn't join in the fun, he's spent the last few years with dodgy builds feeding XP to the Autobots, and he sure as heck doesn't spam.
disruptor96: I forgot how insane you were.
User avatar
Name_Violation
Matrix Keeper
Posts: 9438
News Credits: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:48 pm
Location: Location, Location
Intelligence: ???
Skill: ???

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Name_Violation » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:14 pm

Motto: "It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
Weapon: Multi-Function Sword
Burn wrote:Speed enhances Avoid BUT is counter-enhanced by Courage. (Higher courage increases your chances of an offensive move as apposed to a defensive move like Avoid)

Huh. learn something new every day
Image
Fun Toy Banned Because Of Three Stupid Dead Kids :KREMZEEK:
People wrote:zombybunnie: N_V scares me...I no longer wish that my pants transformed
Burn:Anyone notice how much of a boring party pooper N_V is? He doesn't join in the fun, he's spent the last few years with dodgy builds feeding XP to the Autobots, and he sure as heck doesn't spam.
disruptor96: I forgot how insane you were.
User avatar
Name_Violation
Matrix Keeper
Posts: 9438
News Credits: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:48 pm
Location: Location, Location
Intelligence: ???
Skill: ???

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby _Anshin_ » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:23 pm

Name_Violation wrote:
Burn wrote:Speed enhances Avoid BUT is counter-enhanced by Courage. (Higher courage increases your chances of an offensive move as apposed to a defensive move like Avoid)

Huh. learn something new every day

I slightly disagree with this statement only because from what I have seen and read is that avoid is a passive trait. There only a chance you will avoid when attacked. You won't actively avoid for your turn instead of attacking. The higher your speed the greater your chance of an enemy missing you. The higher the avoid, the greater the chance you will fire off the tactic instead and instead of an attacker missing you the attacker will avoid.

But then again Burn has been around longer than me and knows the game pretty well, so as much of a hard time I like to give him, I also have to trust him when he says his words of wisdom.
_Anshin_
Brainmaster
Posts: 1389
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Phaze » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:32 pm

Motto: ""All's Fair in Life and Death""
Weapon: Nuclear Charged Fusion Cannon
avoid has generally been fed by speed if i remember rightly ram is countered by a combination of str and endurance but my memory is a bit fuzzy

_Anshin_ wrote: I also have to trust him when he says his words of wisdom.

I nominate Anshin for Autobot Saviour Image
Image
User avatar
Phaze
Gestalt
Posts: 2682
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:19 am
Location: Isle of Wight, Uk
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 6
Speed: 10
Endurance: 6
Courage: 7
Firepower: 8
Skill: 7

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Burn » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:15 pm

Endurance is SUPPOSE to reduce the stun affect of ram. But I don't think it's ever really worked right.
Image

T-Macksimus wrote:If you have any high hopes or expectations you might as well leave them at the door because I will bet a shiny new Titan class Metroplex that Hasbro is going to screw us over on Arcee... AGAIN!
User avatar
Burn
HMW Moderator
Posts: 37716
News Credits: 57
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:37 am

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby _Anshin_ » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:22 pm

Endurance from what I have seen reduces Ram/Strafe damage. High Strength seems to stop the stun effect, however only 10 is what I have seen to stop the ram stun effect.
_Anshin_
Brainmaster
Posts: 1389
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby _Anshin_ » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:30 pm

Phaze wrote:
_Anshin_ wrote: I also have to trust him when he says his words of wisdom.

I nominate Anshin for Autobot Saviour Image


Pass. We have two already saviors. Would rather just collect my data and do the games.
_Anshin_
Brainmaster
Posts: 1389
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Absolute Zero » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:49 pm

Weapon: Viper Pistol
_Anshin_ wrote:
Phaze wrote:
_Anshin_ wrote: I also have to trust him when he says his words of wisdom.

I nominate Anshin for Autobot Saviour Image


Pass. We have two already saviors. Would rather just collect my data and do the games.

You can be my vice savior.
Image
Sig by Dragonslayer

Warrior's Code wrote:You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins

SPL Round 1: Second Place
Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
Hunt the Renegades: Winner

Dead in One-XBLive
Shinobiusagi-PSN
Absolute Zero
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Burn's lawn
Strength: 4
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 2
Endurance: Infinity
Rank: 1
Courage: 10
Firepower: 1
Skill: 3

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Name_Violation » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:33 pm

Motto: "It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
Weapon: Multi-Function Sword
_Anshin_ wrote:Endurance from what I have seen reduces Ram/Strafe damage. High Strength seems to stop the stun effect, however only 10 is what I have seen to stop the ram stun effect.

yep. thats why str was the first stat i maxed on every member of my team
Image
Fun Toy Banned Because Of Three Stupid Dead Kids :KREMZEEK:
People wrote:zombybunnie: N_V scares me...I no longer wish that my pants transformed
Burn:Anyone notice how much of a boring party pooper N_V is? He doesn't join in the fun, he's spent the last few years with dodgy builds feeding XP to the Autobots, and he sure as heck doesn't spam.
disruptor96: I forgot how insane you were.
User avatar
Name_Violation
Matrix Keeper
Posts: 9438
News Credits: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:48 pm
Location: Location, Location
Intelligence: ???
Skill: ???

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Jack Hallows » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:42 pm

Motto: "no man is safe from this blade i'm packin.. i have dreams where i'm fallin', but as i hit the ground, i wake up laughin'..."
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
ok, since we're on the subject of revealing the hidden effects of each stat, i'm wondering what the rest of the stats not mentioned do secrectly. like courage, rank, & skill. (i know skill unlocks new abilities like intelligence does) but what's it really do.

also, i've been wondering about all those extra abilities described on the upgrade page. what's their purpose? i've never seen them used.
Image
User avatar
Jack Hallows
Vehicon
Posts: 300
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:42 am
Location: Springfield, Massachusetts
Watch Jack Hallows on YouTube
Strength: 9
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 10
Rank: 5
Courage: 8
Firepower: 8
Skill: 10+

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Absolute Zero » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:40 pm

Weapon: Viper Pistol
Jack Hallows wrote:ok, since we're on the subject of revealing the hidden effects of each stat, i'm wondering what the rest of the stats not mentioned do secrectly. like courage, rank, & skill. (i know skill unlocks new abilities like intelligence does) but what's it really do.

also, i've been wondering about all those extra abilities described on the upgrade page. what's their purpose? i've never seen them used.


For the most part, concerning the italicized stuff, nothing, since the game's never been finished from what I know, but I do miss more time than actually play, so I could be wrong.

*edit* But, speed is supposed to help your accuracy, and if memory serves, also helps with getting actions in the missions/arena.

Strength ups all weapon damage, as well as ram damage, and ups the ammount of armor you can wear.

rank unlocks more armor, and there was a rumor way back pre-Glyph that it made a bigger target on your back.

int ups repair and can unlock tactics on alts with hidden/locked ones.

fire power ups strafe, and better weapons

skill unlocks better weapons and unlocks hidden/locked tactics on alts with them

end ups your resistance to damage from tactics, and boosts how much a repair heals you for

courage ups how often you will ask the RNG to let you attack

I believe the mathmatical formula for the effects of stats on performance was something like (value/5)*.5 or something like that. I remember that the baseline was all fives in all stats, so anything under a five, is giving you penalties.
Image
Sig by Dragonslayer

Warrior's Code wrote:You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins

SPL Round 1: Second Place
Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
Hunt the Renegades: Winner

Dead in One-XBLive
Shinobiusagi-PSN
Absolute Zero
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Burn's lawn
Strength: 4
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 2
Endurance: Infinity
Rank: 1
Courage: 10
Firepower: 1
Skill: 3

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Hyroo » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:32 pm

Weapon: Neutron Blaster
Thanks for all the info, it's good to finally get some of those mysteries cleared up! I have one more question... What's the deal with the Cyclone Gun? 4k for light to medium damage, with a recharge? I feel like there has to be some secret there. Or, is the secret that there is no secret?
Hyroo
Mini-Con
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:30 am

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Burn » Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:53 pm

Absolute Zero wrote:For the most part, concerning the italicized stuff, nothing, since the game's never been finished from what I know, but I do miss more time than actually play, so I could be wrong.


I think Glyph finished it but never updated the page, then the changes were lost ... or something like that.

*edit* But, speed is supposed to help your accuracy, and if memory serves, also helps with getting actions in the missions/arena.


Increases your accuracy and also throws off your opponents chances of hitting you.

Strength ups all weapon damage, as well as ram damage, and ups the ammount of armor you can wear.


Use to only up the melee weapons, but somewhere along the line it boosted all of them.

Hey Anshin, I got one for you to test.

Get yourself two bots, set them up in a similar manner but give one of them Five Courage.

This is going back many years ago, every time I had a bot (that's bot not 'bot) with five courage they completely sucked. Drop them down to four, or up them to six, and they performed better. I've always felt Five Courage to be "cursed".
Image

T-Macksimus wrote:If you have any high hopes or expectations you might as well leave them at the door because I will bet a shiny new Titan class Metroplex that Hasbro is going to screw us over on Arcee... AGAIN!
User avatar
Burn
HMW Moderator
Posts: 37716
News Credits: 57
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:37 am

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Absolute Zero » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:37 am

Weapon: Viper Pistol
I knew I was forgetting stuff...

That five courage, is that related to evens are better than odds?
Image
Sig by Dragonslayer

Warrior's Code wrote:You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins

SPL Round 1: Second Place
Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
Hunt the Renegades: Winner

Dead in One-XBLive
Shinobiusagi-PSN
Absolute Zero
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Burn's lawn
Strength: 4
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 2
Endurance: Infinity
Rank: 1
Courage: 10
Firepower: 1
Skill: 3

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Burn » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:49 am

It's something i've suspected but never bothered to prove.
Image

T-Macksimus wrote:If you have any high hopes or expectations you might as well leave them at the door because I will bet a shiny new Titan class Metroplex that Hasbro is going to screw us over on Arcee... AGAIN!
User avatar
Burn
HMW Moderator
Posts: 37716
News Credits: 57
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:37 am

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Jack Hallows » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:03 am

Motto: "no man is safe from this blade i'm packin.. i have dreams where i'm fallin', but as i hit the ground, i wake up laughin'..."
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
this thread should be stickied.

oh, and ps. i heard that if you max out your int. you'll be able to figure out who really killed tupac & biggie.

but the feds don't want us to know that so :-$
Image
User avatar
Jack Hallows
Vehicon
Posts: 300
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:42 am
Location: Springfield, Massachusetts
Watch Jack Hallows on YouTube
Strength: 9
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 10
Rank: 5
Courage: 8
Firepower: 8
Skill: 10+

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Phaze » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:46 am

Motto: ""All's Fair in Life and Death""
Weapon: Nuclear Charged Fusion Cannon
Jack Hallows wrote:this thread should be stickied.

oh, and ps. i heard that if you max out your int. you'll be able to figure out who really killed tupac & biggie.

but the feds don't want us to know that so :-$

Some say that maxing out Int opens up the Autobot Hyper Mode

Absolute Zero wrote:I knew I was forgetting stuff...

That five courage, is that related to evens are better than odds?


This theory goes some way to explaining Cydonia's faltering form atm might have to keep a closer eye on him and compare him to crueljaw who is rapidly catching him Image
Image
User avatar
Phaze
Gestalt
Posts: 2682
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:19 am
Location: Isle of Wight, Uk
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 6
Speed: 10
Endurance: 6
Courage: 7
Firepower: 8
Skill: 7

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby _Anshin_ » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:15 am

Burn wrote:Hey Anshin, I got one for you to test.

Get yourself two bots, set them up in a similar manner but give one of them Five Courage.

This is going back many years ago, every time I had a bot (that's bot not 'bot) with five courage they completely sucked. Drop them down to four, or up them to six, and they performed better. I've always felt Five Courage to be "cursed".


Already done, take a look at my builds and you will see that none have 5 courage. I can't prove it of course, but I have a suspect feeling that part of the RNG code that is built off of the game and determines fight/order ranks uses a baseline number set that is effected directly by the weight values associated with each character.
_Anshin_
Brainmaster
Posts: 1389
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Absolute Zero » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:39 am

Weapon: Viper Pistol
If five is the baseline stat for the game, it could be that it's either being treated as zero or there is an error in the coding that's not treating the negatives right.

Or it could just be that the RNG hates five courage.
Image
Sig by Dragonslayer

Warrior's Code wrote:You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins

SPL Round 1: Second Place
Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
Hunt the Renegades: Winner

Dead in One-XBLive
Shinobiusagi-PSN
Absolute Zero
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Burn's lawn
Strength: 4
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 2
Endurance: Infinity
Rank: 1
Courage: 10
Firepower: 1
Skill: 3

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby _Anshin_ » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:14 am

Absolute Zero wrote:If five is the baseline stat for the game, it could be that it's either being treated as zero or there is an error in the coding that's not treating the negatives right.

Or it could just be that the RNG hates five courage.

Quiet the opposite. Zero is not even zero. Zero is actually 1% to 10%. However, and I can't prove this or not, but I believe it works like this.

The list is compiled and each player is assigned a number based off of calculations on stats (speed/courage/level). One of several RNG are fired off and your player is chosen. Another RNG is fired off and your opponent is chosen. If you know anything about Random Numbers and Seeds of Random numbers in the generation then there are dead spots in the generated random numbers and there are hot spots or numbers that appear more frequently. If the seed is not refreshed or you can sometimes get the same RNG multiple times depending upon the language you code in or code you have written to use the RNG for that system.

I know, I know, too much detail. But the reason I explained this is because if we looked at each point into a stat was 10% (10 being 100% and 11 being 110%) we would see that the see values between 50 and 59 were the dead spot. This is not to say that they wouldn't occur, but they would occur less frequently than say the 40-49 range or the more favorable 60-69 range.
_Anshin_
Brainmaster
Posts: 1389
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Absolute Zero » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:38 am

Weapon: Viper Pistol
The sad things is, I understood that. The annoying part is I can't figure out how that works into the formula that was provided several years ago, and I don't even know if the post of it is still around, but I thought the bots had a copy of it in Iacon...
Image
Sig by Dragonslayer

Warrior's Code wrote:You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins

SPL Round 1: Second Place
Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
Hunt the Renegades: Winner

Dead in One-XBLive
Shinobiusagi-PSN
Absolute Zero
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Burn's lawn
Strength: 4
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 2
Endurance: Infinity
Rank: 1
Courage: 10
Firepower: 1
Skill: 3

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby _Anshin_ » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:23 am

Absolute Zero wrote:The sad things is, I understood that. The annoying part is I can't figure out how that works into the formula that was provided several years ago, and I don't even know if the post of it is still around, but I thought the bots had a copy of it in Iacon...

If you are looking for the damage formula, I have my doubts that is the correct formula. If its the formula for fighting based off the hit, team hit, self hit, miss attack that I think Tammuz or one of the other guys posted back in 2009/2010, it fits into the first part relatively well.

Again I can't prove anything, but just looking at a small collection of fights you will see and it goes along well with why some bots may have 10 courage while some cons have 7 courage but the cons will have 3-4x the attack due to the seed being reused instead of refreshed.
_Anshin_
Brainmaster
Posts: 1389
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Absolute Zero » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:24 pm

Weapon: Viper Pistol
_Anshin_ wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:The sad things is, I understood that. The annoying part is I can't figure out how that works into the formula that was provided several years ago, and I don't even know if the post of it is still around, but I thought the bots had a copy of it in Iacon...

If you are looking for the damage formula, I have my doubts that is the correct formula. If its the formula for fighting based off the hit, team hit, self hit, miss attack that I think Tammuz or one of the other guys posted back in 2009/2010, it fits into the first part relatively well.

Again I can't prove anything, but just looking at a small collection of fights you will see and it goes along well with why some bots may have 10 courage while some cons have 7 courage but the cons will have 3-4x the attack due to the seed being reused instead of refreshed.


I don't know about the damage forumla, but that might be it. It would have originally been posted back in uh... 05-06, but with the wipes and reboot and everything, he likely would have had to repost everything. He and some other guys who sadly no longer play really, went and broke down everything, spending quiet a bit of time testing out everything in the game. Every single weapon, every armor, effects of every stat, and a bunch of other stuff. That was back when you had a whole lot more people posting on the board every day though. I believe the raw data they collected might have been the basis of the current weapon setup, but, well, this was before there was even minicons in the game.
Image
Sig by Dragonslayer

Warrior's Code wrote:You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins

SPL Round 1: Second Place
Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
Hunt the Renegades: Winner

Dead in One-XBLive
Shinobiusagi-PSN
Absolute Zero
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 5109
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Burn's lawn
Strength: 4
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 2
Endurance: Infinity
Rank: 1
Courage: 10
Firepower: 1
Skill: 3

Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Psychout » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:29 am

Motto: "The Blackest Night Falls from the skies,
The darkness grows as all light dies,
We crave your hearts and your Demise
by my Black Hand-- --The Dead shall rise!"
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
Tammuz and Bun-Bun pretty much broke the game down into hardcore math-porn a few years back, I'll have a rummage around the RDDs old Neo Kaon site and see if it's there.

May take some time though, the gang were never very good at 'organisation'...
DISCLAIMER: The above post clearly was meant to offend, and if you feel insulted by it, please use the 'close browser' button and discuss it with someone who knows not to take the internet seriously.
User avatar
Psychout
HMW Moderator
Posts: 11512
News Credits: 22
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:04 am
Location: Vatican City
Strength: 1
Intelligence: 1
Speed: 1
Endurance: 1
Rank: 1
Courage: 1
Firepower: 1
Skill: 10

Next

Return to Heavy Metal War Forum

Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #90 - Dark Scorponok
Twincast / Podcast #90:
"Dark Scorponok"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Monday, April 7th, 2014