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Stats and their effects

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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby _Anshin_ » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:14 am

Absolute Zero wrote:If five is the baseline stat for the game, it could be that it's either being treated as zero or there is an error in the coding that's not treating the negatives right.

Or it could just be that the RNG hates five courage.

Quiet the opposite. Zero is not even zero. Zero is actually 1% to 10%. However, and I can't prove this or not, but I believe it works like this.

The list is compiled and each player is assigned a number based off of calculations on stats (speed/courage/level). One of several RNG are fired off and your player is chosen. Another RNG is fired off and your opponent is chosen. If you know anything about Random Numbers and Seeds of Random numbers in the generation then there are dead spots in the generated random numbers and there are hot spots or numbers that appear more frequently. If the seed is not refreshed or you can sometimes get the same RNG multiple times depending upon the language you code in or code you have written to use the RNG for that system.

I know, I know, too much detail. But the reason I explained this is because if we looked at each point into a stat was 10% (10 being 100% and 11 being 110%) we would see that the see values between 50 and 59 were the dead spot. This is not to say that they wouldn't occur, but they would occur less frequently than say the 40-49 range or the more favorable 60-69 range.
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Absolute Zero » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:38 am

Weapon: Viper Pistol
The sad things is, I understood that. The annoying part is I can't figure out how that works into the formula that was provided several years ago, and I don't even know if the post of it is still around, but I thought the bots had a copy of it in Iacon...
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby _Anshin_ » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:23 am

Absolute Zero wrote:The sad things is, I understood that. The annoying part is I can't figure out how that works into the formula that was provided several years ago, and I don't even know if the post of it is still around, but I thought the bots had a copy of it in Iacon...

If you are looking for the damage formula, I have my doubts that is the correct formula. If its the formula for fighting based off the hit, team hit, self hit, miss attack that I think Tammuz or one of the other guys posted back in 2009/2010, it fits into the first part relatively well.

Again I can't prove anything, but just looking at a small collection of fights you will see and it goes along well with why some bots may have 10 courage while some cons have 7 courage but the cons will have 3-4x the attack due to the seed being reused instead of refreshed.
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Absolute Zero » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:24 pm

Weapon: Viper Pistol
_Anshin_ wrote:
Absolute Zero wrote:The sad things is, I understood that. The annoying part is I can't figure out how that works into the formula that was provided several years ago, and I don't even know if the post of it is still around, but I thought the bots had a copy of it in Iacon...

If you are looking for the damage formula, I have my doubts that is the correct formula. If its the formula for fighting based off the hit, team hit, self hit, miss attack that I think Tammuz or one of the other guys posted back in 2009/2010, it fits into the first part relatively well.

Again I can't prove anything, but just looking at a small collection of fights you will see and it goes along well with why some bots may have 10 courage while some cons have 7 courage but the cons will have 3-4x the attack due to the seed being reused instead of refreshed.


I don't know about the damage forumla, but that might be it. It would have originally been posted back in uh... 05-06, but with the wipes and reboot and everything, he likely would have had to repost everything. He and some other guys who sadly no longer play really, went and broke down everything, spending quiet a bit of time testing out everything in the game. Every single weapon, every armor, effects of every stat, and a bunch of other stuff. That was back when you had a whole lot more people posting on the board every day though. I believe the raw data they collected might have been the basis of the current weapon setup, but, well, this was before there was even minicons in the game.
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Warrior's Code wrote:You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins

SPL Round 1: Second Place
Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
Hunt the Renegades: Winner

Dead in One-XBLive
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Psychout » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:29 am

Motto: "The Blackest Night Falls from the skies,
The darkness grows as all light dies,
We crave your hearts and your Demise
by my Black Hand-- --The Dead shall rise!"
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
Tammuz and Bun-Bun pretty much broke the game down into hardcore math-porn a few years back, I'll have a rummage around the RDDs old Neo Kaon site and see if it's there.

May take some time though, the gang were never very good at 'organisation'...
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Burn » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:06 pm

Except when a tournament rolled round.
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Absolute Zero » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:48 pm

Weapon: Viper Pistol
Burn wrote:Except when a tournament rolled round.


Because the Autobots spent to long arguing over who was in charge, and who should be in missions, rather than figuring out strategy and posting up when the tourney missions were up.
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Warrior's Code wrote:You're the fighter you've got the fire
The spirit of a warrior, the champion's heart
You fight for your life because the fighter never quits
You make the most of the hand you're dealt
Because the quitter never wins

SPL Round 1: Second Place
Autbot Treasure Hunt: Winner
Hunt the Renegades: Winner

Dead in One-XBLive
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Psychout » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:46 am

Motto: "The Blackest Night Falls from the skies,
The darkness grows as all light dies,
We crave your hearts and your Demise
by my Black Hand-- --The Dead shall rise!"
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
And the fact that we ran 99% of them. What can I say - we're a competitive bunch.
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Psychout » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:17 am

Motto: "The Blackest Night Falls from the skies,
The darkness grows as all light dies,
We crave your hearts and your Demise
by my Black Hand-- --The Dead shall rise!"
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
FAO _Anshin_:

Look what I found...
Tammuz via the RDD wrote:The Weapons Table
Image

Light = 1-5%
medium = 6-10%
heavy = 11-15%
very heavy = 16-20%
devastating = 21-25%
Incredible = >26%

Weapon Damage Mechanics
% Damage = RANDOM[minD~maxD] x [1+(Str x 0.1)] x [1.5-(End x 0.1)] x [Armour]

Armour is an unknown Quantity as yet

Accuracy of all weapons/punchs/kicks;
([attacker's speed] - [defender's speed] + 16)/ 20

Brawling damages
NEED TO CALCULATED

Taken from a non-Tammuz thread wrote:Stats to Tactic relationships
Ram = Strength(+)/Courage(+)/Opp:Strength(-)/Opp:Endurance(-)
Strafe = Firepower(+)/Courage(+)/Speed(+)/Opp:Endurance(-)
Repair = Intelligence(+)/Courage(+)/Opp:Endurance(+)
Avoid = Speed(+)/Courage(+)/Opp:Speed(-)

- Ram and Repair upon successful activation is believed to be a guaranteed hit
- Strafes opening strike is a guaranteed hit, all others are determined by Speed
- Avoid is a reactionary tactic and therefore only has a chance of activating upon a successful melee strike by an opponent. It has been suggested but not proven that courage increases likelihood of Avoid activating


Ram Mechanics
frequency= ([ram] x 3) / 100
Ram Damage% = RANDOM[19~33] x [1+(Str x 0.1)] / [1+(End x 0.1)]
the stun mechanics are as yet Unknown, they are suspected to be based on attackers strength, and targets endurance


Repair Mechanics
frequency= ([repair] x 3) / 100
Repair% = RANDOM[19~33] x [1+(Int x 0.1)] / [2-(End x 0.1)]


Strafe Mechanics
frequency= ([strafe] x 3) / 100
First shot Damage% = RANDOM[8~25] x [1+(FP x 0.1)] / [1+(End x 0.1)]
Following Shot damage% = RANDOM[5~10] x [1+(FP x 0.1)]/ [1+(End x 0.1)]

in a strafe you always get 1 first shot(which always hits a bot), and then a number of following shots equal to double your strafe(6 strafe, 12 following shots) Following shots are aimed at all TFs in the mission, any that hit cons are ignored; only hits against bots show up in logs. so if the missions has equal numbers for each side, you should get about 1+strafe shots in each strafe attack.


Tammuz goes on to say that there is a flaw in the mechanics somewhere but at the time of this post he hadn't discovered it. I'm sure there is a more up to date version somewhere but, it could be on one of 3 or 4 old websites we used to use to stay ahead of the old Mods, this is from the old core RDD site. The weapons table is also an old copy so is missing a bunch of the new weapons.

How does this compare with your results? I'd be interested to know if you have anything beyond this.
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby _Anshin_ » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:44 pm

The weapons tables have been changed. I can verify that without a doubt. Alldarker and N_V Helped with that a while ago. The Weapons Damage formula I have found before, but it has never worked for me. There is a small alteration that I have been doing where the armor is not part of the damage increase but part of the reduction for damage. The Accuracy seems similar but instead of +16)/20 I have found at least where I have looked you can substituted a 9)/25 and it seems to work better for me.

As for tactics, I went about it the wrong way, or rather a different way. I approached it based off of the attack formula.

I have not been including math into any of my posts because every time that I have talked to Tammuz I have been told that he can't mention the game math anymore or talk about anything. I always assumed that posting formulas and math would be grouped in the same manner as writing scripts and posting the scripts for any kind of scraping or automatic gaming
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Psychout » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:30 pm

Motto: "The Blackest Night Falls from the skies,
The darkness grows as all light dies,
We crave your hearts and your Demise
by my Black Hand-- --The Dead shall rise!"
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
I don't claim to understand what you have said above but if it helps, more power to you.
_Anshin_ wrote:I have not been including math into any of my posts because every time that I have talked to Tammuz I have been told that he can't mention the game math anymore or talk about anything. I always assumed that posting formulas and math would be grouped in the same manner as writing scripts and posting the scripts for any kind of scraping or automatic gaming

That indeed used to be the case, but IMO Tammuz was persecuted (to a great degree) by the games previous administration becuase he wanted to make this information public. Everything I have written above has been with the RDD and AWC *spit* for years and was posted in both Darkmount and Iacon a long time ago (look for the iAcon Index thread by neliz), so the secret isnt exactly under wraps anymore.

The game is currenty without a programmer or admin (or a certain future) to clear it with so I figured 'knock yourselves out'. If I can help a budding programmer understand more about the game so they can step up and have a go at fixing it, what's to lose?


Scripts are a different matter, those remain banned without express permission of site admin.
HMW game mechanics however are legitimate discussion points and until I am told otherwise are fair game.
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Jack Hallows » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:11 pm

Motto: "no man is safe from this blade i'm packin.. i have dreams where i'm fallin', but as i hit the ground, i wake up laughin'..."
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
should sticky this. helped me immensely to understand the game better. especially when it came to my strafers. i was gettin pissed off when a dude with 6 strength was only strafin for 2-3% at a time.. not so much anymore... :HEADHURTS:
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby redoutlander » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:41 pm

Motto: "I don't know what I am doing, but at least I'm doing something"
Weapon: Energy Shurikens
I agree, this is a good Discussion to sticky, just the comments of AZ and burn on page 3 alone are enough for me to plan out my bots a little better so that I won't have to waist to many points on the low levels.

I'd say I'd love to take a crack at updating some of the programing. I'm a Computer Science major, but i'm only at 200 lvl classes, and I havn't worked in PHP or SQL, so it would probably take a couple more years before I could tackle something like this on my own. but I don't want to say to much I'd hate to promise something I couldn't deliver.
"oh yea, Breakdown Robot"

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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Jack Hallows » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:40 pm

Motto: "no man is safe from this blade i'm packin.. i have dreams where i'm fallin', but as i hit the ground, i wake up laughin'..."
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
redoutlander wrote:I don't want to say to much I'd hate to promise something I couldn't deliver.


bro, i wish there were women who thought this way. like my whore of an ex fiance.

















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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby redoutlander » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:06 pm

Motto: "I don't know what I am doing, but at least I'm doing something"
Weapon: Energy Shurikens
Jack Hallows wrote:
redoutlander wrote:I don't want to say to much I'd hate to promise something I couldn't deliver.


bro, i wish there were women who thought this way. like my whore of an ex fiance.


yea I had one of those but then I married her.....
that and the whole XX chromosome thing
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Psychout » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:38 pm

Motto: "The Blackest Night Falls from the skies,
The darkness grows as all light dies,
We crave your hearts and your Demise
by my Black Hand-- --The Dead shall rise!"
Weapon: Sniper Rifle
...wow, that's epically off-topic, even for us. :lol:

Can we please steer it back to Stats (be imaginative) and away from Hallows needing either a Lawyer or a Shrink?
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Phaze » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:40 pm

Motto: ""All's Fair in Life and Death""
Weapon: Nuclear Charged Fusion Cannon
redoutlander wrote:
Jack Hallows wrote:
redoutlander wrote:I don't want to say to much I'd hate to promise something I couldn't deliver.


bro, i wish there were women who thought this way. like my whore of an ex fiance.


yea I had one of those but then I married her.....
that and the whole XX chromosome thing

He's gonna need a ton of endurance for the beating he'll receive if said missus ever reads that line :lol: Image
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby redoutlander » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:07 pm

Motto: "I don't know what I am doing, but at least I'm doing something"
Weapon: Energy Shurikens
Jack Hallows wrote:should sticky this.

redoutlander wrote:I agree, this is a good Discussion to sticky


Jack Hallows wrote:"ex fiance joke"

de-rail
redoutlander wrote:"wife joke"

insert foot in mouth

ummmm I rescind all previous comments of dubious nature on this thread!
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Name_Violation » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:07 pm

Motto: "It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
Weapon: Multi-Function Sword
someone mentioned a doobie?
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Burn » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:35 pm

Psychout wrote:Can we please steer it back to Stats (be imaginative) and away from Hallows needing either a Lawyer or a Shrink?


When Psychout wants things back on topic, it's best to listen. :wink:
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Re: Stats and their effects

Postby Jack Hallows » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:48 am

Motto: "no man is safe from this blade i'm packin.. i have dreams where i'm fallin', but as i hit the ground, i wake up laughin'..."
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
oooh shoot i'm cyin over here ahahahahaha... this is all redoutlander's fault.

BUT ALAS! the topic shall be revisited!

i have a strong speculation that rare alt forms are slightly more powerful than common alt forms of their specific type. can anyone verify this?
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