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No one cares that Optimus is willing to kill. It's more the way he often executes beaten/defenceless foes, or or that he does it in sadistic ways. Like, ripping off someone's face while taunting them about it? That's kinda...creepy.

Throughout DOTM, all his kills were justified. He killed Decepticons who were trying to kill him. It's only at the end, he kills two guys who either cannot harm him or had absolutely no intention to. Both guys were assholes, sure...but they were defeated and no longer threats.

Treetop Maximus wrote:

Tekka wrote:This is a fallacy. A given situation or problem does not call for a specific personality type, we judge the merit of a personality based on how one reacts to a situation. It differs from person to person and isn't possible to define absolutely.

False. A situation in which the Decepticons fight to kill warrants an Autobot leader who isn't afraid to kill his enemies. If Movieverse Optimus Prime had the personality of G1 Optimus Prime, he would have been killed repeatedly (because the Matrix of Leadership can bring him back whenever he dies, apparently).

I'm generous with the spoiler tags.

It isn't false at all. You're blinded by the violence argument alone. The action taken isn't relevant to the personality. One can still be a good person and kill his enemies when it is called for, that's what I would consider heroic.

What separates the personalities of the Optimus Primes is how they define themselves inside and outside of combat.

My favourite example, Demolisher. Summary execution and open mockery of a disabled combatant is deplorable in my eyes, but apparently not in yours. This supports my statement, and disproves your insinuation that the hatred is mindless.

Your earlier example of G1 Prime preparing execute Megatron is also a fallacy because you don't have proof that he would have executed Megatron on the spot, you can only guess.

Cheesinator wrote:No one cares that Optimus is willing to kill. It's more the way he often executes beaten/defenceless foes, or or that he does it in sadistic ways. Like, ripping off someone's face while taunting them about it? That's kinda...creepy.

Throughout DOTM, all his kills were justified. He killed Decepticons who were trying to kill him. It's only at the end, he kills two guys who either cannot harm him or had absolutely no intention to. Both guys were assholes, sure...but they were defeated and no longer threats.

No no no...

Sentinel got hit like, 3 times and had his hat knocked off. He shot friends in the back.

Megatron just 10 seconds earlier betrayed his greatest partnership.

In a good dojo, students are taught that "Dead tigers are the ones that kill you." Meaning that it's the battles you assume you've won that are easily lost. Good for Prime to finish what had to be done.

Cheesinator wrote:It's only at the end, he kills two guys who either cannot harm him or had absolutely no intention to.

Megatron would've gladly killed Optimus again, Sentinel would've probably killed Optimus for being "wrong". THEY HAD THE INTENTION OF KILLING, BOTH HAD DONE IT BEFORE!!!

Tekka wrote:

Treetop Maximus wrote:

Tekka wrote:This is a fallacy. A given situation or problem does not call for a specific personality type, we judge the merit of a personality based on how one reacts to a situation. It differs from person to person and isn't possible to define absolutely.

False. A situation in which the Decepticons fight to kill warrants an Autobot leader who isn't afraid to kill his enemies. If Movieverse Optimus Prime had the personality of G1 Optimus Prime, he would have been killed repeatedly (because the Matrix of Leadership can bring him back whenever he dies, apparently).

I'm generous with the spoiler tags.

It isn't false at all. You're blinded by the violence argument alone. The action taken isn't relevant to the personality. One can still be a good person and kill his enemies when it is called for, that's what I would consider heroic.

What separates the personalities of the Optimus Primes is how they define themselves inside and outside of combat.

My favourite example, Demolisher. Summary execution and open mockery of a disabled combatant is deplorable in my eyes, but apparently not in yours. This supports my statement, and disproves your insinuation that the hatred is mindless.

Your earlier example of G1 Prime preparing execute Megatron is also a fallacy because you don't have proof that he would have executed Megatron on the spot, you can only guess.

Lulz. Me? Blinded? Sorry, I'm not some fanbitch who can't stand the opinions of others. Try again.

As for Demolishor, what would you have done with him? Are the Autobots expected to set up a cozy little prison for every Decepticon they defeat? Of course not. They would get free eventually.

Regarding the G1 example, you don't seem too familiar with the scene at all. Optimus points his gun directly at Megatron. When Hot Rod tackles Megatron, Optimus clearly tells him "Out of the way, Hot Rod." He wouldn't have said that if he hadn't been planning to fire at Megatron.

Treetop Maximus wrote:

Tekka wrote:

Treetop Maximus wrote:

Tekka wrote:This is a fallacy. A given situation or problem does not call for a specific personality type, we judge the merit of a personality based on how one reacts to a situation. It differs from person to person and isn't possible to define absolutely.

False. A situation in which the Decepticons fight to kill warrants an Autobot leader who isn't afraid to kill his enemies. If Movieverse Optimus Prime had the personality of G1 Optimus Prime, he would have been killed repeatedly (because the Matrix of Leadership can bring him back whenever he dies, apparently).

I'm generous with the spoiler tags.

It isn't false at all. You're blinded by the violence argument alone. The action taken isn't relevant to the personality. One can still be a good person and kill his enemies when it is called for, that's what I would consider heroic.

What separates the personalities of the Optimus Primes is how they define themselves inside and outside of combat.

My favourite example, Demolisher. Summary execution and open mockery of a disabled combatant is deplorable in my eyes, but apparently not in yours. This supports my statement, and disproves your insinuation that the hatred is mindless.

Your earlier example of G1 Prime preparing execute Megatron is also a fallacy because you don't have proof that he would have executed Megatron on the spot, you can only guess.

Lulz. Me? Blinded? Sorry, I'm not some fanbitch who can't stand the opinions of others. Try again.

As for Demolishor, what would you have done with him? Are the Autobots expected to set up a cozy little prison for every Decepticon they defeat? Of course not. They would get free eventually.

Regarding the G1 example, you don't seem too familiar with the scene at all. Optimus points his gun directly at Megatron. When Hot Rod tackles Megatron, Optimus clearly tells him "Out of the way, Hot Rod." He wouldn't have said that if he hadn't been planning to fire at Megatron.

Wow. Way to support your argument.

You're going off topic here. It's not a question of what I would have done with him, it's a question of whether or not I like what Optimus did. This is the topic we are debating, yes? If you think it's mindless of me to have an opinion you don't agree with then I guess there's nothing else for us to say.

Please, the spoiler tags for that movie really aren't necessary. But anyhow, yes he points his gun at him. But what then? If Hot Rod had not jumped in, how can you automatically assume Prime would not have accepted Megatron's surrender, only to get blown away for his folly? You can't state anything as fact without the evidence to back it up, and in this case, no evidence exists. Simple.

Tekka wrote:

Treetop Maximus wrote:

Tekka wrote:

Treetop Maximus wrote:

Tekka wrote:This is a fallacy. A given situation or problem does not call for a specific personality type, we judge the merit of a personality based on how one reacts to a situation. It differs from person to person and isn't possible to define absolutely.

False. A situation in which the Decepticons fight to kill warrants an Autobot leader who isn't afraid to kill his enemies. If Movieverse Optimus Prime had the personality of G1 Optimus Prime, he would have been killed repeatedly (because the Matrix of Leadership can bring him back whenever he dies, apparently).

I'm generous with the spoiler tags.

It isn't false at all. You're blinded by the violence argument alone. The action taken isn't relevant to the personality. One can still be a good person and kill his enemies when it is called for, that's what I would consider heroic.

What separates the personalities of the Optimus Primes is how they define themselves inside and outside of combat.

My favourite example, Demolisher. Summary execution and open mockery of a disabled combatant is deplorable in my eyes, but apparently not in yours. This supports my statement, and disproves your insinuation that the hatred is mindless.

Your earlier example of G1 Prime preparing execute Megatron is also a fallacy because you don't have proof that he would have executed Megatron on the spot, you can only guess.

Lulz. Me? Blinded? Sorry, I'm not some fanbitch who can't stand the opinions of others. Try again.

As for Demolishor, what would you have done with him? Are the Autobots expected to set up a cozy little prison for every Decepticon they defeat? Of course not. They would get free eventually.

Regarding the G1 example, you don't seem too familiar with the scene at all. Optimus points his gun directly at Megatron. When Hot Rod tackles Megatron, Optimus clearly tells him "Out of the way, Hot Rod." He wouldn't have said that if he hadn't been planning to fire at Megatron.

Wow. Way to support your argument.

You're going off topic here. It's not a question of what I would have done with him, it's a question of whether or not I like what Optimus did. This is the topic we are debating, yes? If you think it's mindless of me to have an opinion you don't agree with then I guess there's nothing else for us to say.

Please, the spoiler tags for that movie really aren't necessary. But anyhow, yes he points his gun at him. But what then? If Hot Rod had not jumped in, how can you automatically assume Prime would not have accepted Megatron's surrender, only to get blown away for his folly? You can't state anything as fact without the evidence to back it up, and in this case, no evidence exists. Simple.

So when I respond to your points, you claim I am off topic. When I provide clear evidence, you claim there is none. Typical. *Edited for general assholishness*

Sweet jesus, man. There's no need for that. I'm perfectly happy to debate with you but you seriously can't keep switching topics in an attempt to defeat arguments.

Whether or not what Prime did was the right thing has no bearing on whether or not it makes it right in my eyes, which is the crux of the whole argument you've brought up. I made a conscious decision that what Prime did was wrong, and accordingly expressed my dislike. It doesn't get much simpler than that!

Your main folly from the start was that huge over arcing generalization that was impossible to defend.

Tekka wrote:Sweet jesus, man. There's no need for that. I'm perfectly happy to debate with you but you seriously can't keep switching topics in an attempt to defeat arguments.

I'm sorry. I let my YouTube behavior take over there. If it's any consolation, it's not you I'm mad at. This day has been total crap for me and I went overboard.

I still stand by my entire argument.

No worries. Let's just consider the matter closed then.