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Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Transformers 3 is scheduled to be released on July 1st, 2011. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Treetop Maximus » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:11 pm

Motto: "At least the opening was good."
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Tekka wrote:No worries. Let's just consider the matter closed then.


Okay. Just to clarify, I'm not using my bad day as an excuse. I'm just mentioning it to provide insight as to why I posted what I posted.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Chupacabra Convoy » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:14 am

Motto: "Wait, we're supposed to save all humans? Are you sure?"
Weapon: Energo-Sword
While Megatron did call for a truce at the end, I'm not sure how it would work exactly. I mean would Megatron still call for the human race to be slaves to fix Cybertron? Also, considering how vastly out numbered the Autobots are, wouldn't any truce be more like a formal surrender than actual truce? It goes against Prime's main goal which was to work with humanity to protect them from the Decepticons, which was the idea from the first movie.

Further more, if Prime had accepted, it doesn't mean that the rest of the planet would've followed suit. The relationship with the humans was all ready tenuous at best. If Optimus had accepted a truce with Megatron leading both forces, then the Autobots as a whole, would've been lumped in with the cons. At that point, if I was POTUS, my finger would've been the button (IE: Launching Nukes at Chicago[I would be more triggerhappy, than Triggerhappy]). So that's one reason for killing Megatron and Sentinel Prime.

The other? They started the war. A war which caused them to cripple Cybertron. In most cases, any Megatrons' post civil war plans always involve turing Cybertron into a mobile planetary fortress to be the heart of his intergalactic empire. I am going out on a limb and assume Movie Megatron's plans were the same. Also, Sentinel and Megatron share the view that all Transformers are gods compared to anything else. So even if a truce was made, I don't think either of them would've tolerated taking orders from humanity. Prime doesn't share that view at all. Even if Humanity hates his race, he still views it as a personal responsibility to protect them. Their (Megatron's and Prime's )ideologies are just too opposite from each other to be in a peacefully coexistence for anything longer than a short amount of time. Much like Magneto and Xavier.

On a personal level, Prime (I think) was too disgusted with them to even consider a truce. He just had to destroy his home world because of them, and their ambitions. There might've been a chance to someday work towards fixing Cybertron, but now thanks to them, not only are the Transformers nearly extinct, but any hope of restoring Cybertron looks to be over, finished. In Prime's mind, if Sentinel choose to reward the Autobots' faith in Sentinel, they might've been able to win the war with the space bridge tech, but he choose to betray them. Also Megatron's mad ambition had finally went too far. Everything Prime had ever believed in or cherished was destroyed by them. After millions of years of that, I would hate them more than anything for turning me into a warmonger by default and for damn near killing everyone I ever knew. He knows what happens when two Hitlers are allowed to live. Did they show remorse? Yes, but no amount remorse shown by them justifies their continued existence.

Also, after 27 years, it is great to see Prime end it.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Tekka » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:37 am

Motto: "I'm grade-A, 100% prime-cut final boss! I'm going to take over the world any day now!"
Weapon: Multi-Function Sword
I've stated before I think the truce was a silly idea, I also fully agree that Megatron needed to be punished for his crimes.

What I don't agree with is the apparent five second anti-climactic death he was given, instead of having a Megatron VS Prime epic battle that such a beloved character deserved to go out in. In my opinion.

In reality, whether I like Prime or not doesn't really factor into it, I'm placing blame squarely with whoever is responsible for writing that scene.

Also, If I had to blame a character, I'd blame Megatron for not taking out Prime while he was down.

Yet another graduate from the school of useless villains.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Lastjustice » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:32 am

Motto: ""Laws only exist when there's someone there to enforce them.""
Weapon: Laser-Guided Proton Missile Cannons
Also, If I had to blame a character, I'd blame Megatron for not taking out Prime while he was down


Wouldn't have saved him or Sentinel. Only chance Megatron had was for Prime to accept the truce. I just got back from watching it again,(had to take my sisters kids. I told them id take them to see it. I watched it first in 3-D to make sure was ok.) and the pillars were deactived by time Optimus was on the ground struggling for his life. All ships were warped out, and all ground forces were dead. Megatron and Sentinel were last cons standing.


Killing Optimus would have left the remaining autobots with little reason to spare either villain. They had no other troops left, and there were plenty of humans and autobots left to over run them.

Optimus at the point Megatron had disabled Sentinel was holding all cards. Sparing either of them would just be asking for more trouble. They could lead another war if given the chance. This also after Sentinel basically calls Prime out by saying he's too soft to make the hard calls. So Prime takes his mentor's advice and starts with killing him. Both Megatron and Sentinel were counting on Optimus to be soft and let them live. Both were wrong as they'd pushed him too far.

Prime had been betrayed the deepest level possible. His closest friend killed.(brutally I might add.) at the hands of Sentinel Prime. (Jazz at the hands of Megatron.) We see a very fed up Optimus Prime upon his arrival to chicago. He's had enough of this crap. The Decepticons have had their chances, and yet they choose to keep invading his new home. Bring their war to a place innocent of it's creation.

I put myself in Prime shoes, and I'd be every bit as angry and would ended them both too. They had both earned the righteous indigation they'd received. Perhaps far worse. Either way Prime did the right thing, as the Decepticons without any of their leadership would likely be too disorganized to be a threat anytime soon.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Tekka » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:38 am

Motto: "I'm grade-A, 100% prime-cut final boss! I'm going to take over the world any day now!"
Weapon: Multi-Function Sword
So Megatron was screwed anyway. Sucks to be him.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Cheesinator » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:22 am

Weapon: Flamethrower Cannons
Counterpunch wrote:No no no...

Sentinel got hit like, 3 times and had his hat knocked off. He shot friends in the back.

Megatron just 10 seconds earlier betrayed his greatest partnership.

In a good dojo, students are taught that "Dead tigers are the ones that kill you." Meaning that it's the battles you assume you've won that are easily lost. Good for Prime to finish what had to be done.


I'm not debating whether they deserved to die (they did). I'm saying that when Optimus them, they were no longer threats: Megatron was definitely not going to kill Optimus. He had the opportunity to let Optimus die, and he chose to save him. He then had the opportunity to kill an injured Optimus, and chose not to. Plus, his army was utterly defeated and the grand scheme had failed.

Similarly, Sentinel was beaten to the point he couldn't even get up. Optimus had time to have a ridiculous conversation with Megatron, kill him, get Megatron's gun and then exchange a few words with Sentinel...by which point Sentinel could still barely prop himself up with his arms. He was not a threat.

The point is, this was a movie; it's generally fine to kill the villains, but very rarely are they in a situation like Megatron or Sentinel. I can't think of another scenario where the bad guy saves the hero, offers a truce and is brutally killed anyway (by the 'hero' supposedly being a through-and-through good guy).
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Pot Bot » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:36 am

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Ok, ive seen the film, and i cant remember a truce being offered, i have stated in another thread that im of the opinion that Megs just ripped Sents apart in blind rage after realising he had taken from Megs the leadership (which is dumb because Megs was only the leader for 3 years due to the fallen), after he did sents, he'd calmed and O ripped him apart, i heard no mention of a truce......maybe in the book there was, but in the film, i heard nothing of it.

As for movie Prime, im just not a fan of his design, in fact, i think the only 2 i am a fan of are BB, Skids, Mudflap, and Roadbuster. The vast majority of bot modes im not a fan of.

As for Primes personality, i thought it was a bit odd when i watched ROTF the first time, but i think its about time he stood up and took the fight. Not saying i think its right but A) its a film, and B) They are bloomin robots ffs, who says they have to have our set of morals?
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Cheesinator » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:43 am

Weapon: Flamethrower Cannons
After Megatron tosses Sentinel aside, there's a close up of him and he says "What we need is a truce. All that I ask is that I retain my command...after all, what would you be without me?".

Prime responds with "I'm about to find out!" and then kills him.

There's no blaring music playing either. Not sure how you missed those lines.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Tekka » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:45 am

Motto: "I'm grade-A, 100% prime-cut final boss! I'm going to take over the world any day now!"
Weapon: Multi-Function Sword
I'm just going by reviews from others, it's like putting together a jigsaw, lol. I'm not going to be able to see the movie for months... So by the time I get to see it, all the juicy discussion will be over already. =(
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby vegetacron » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:06 am

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I agree with the original poster. It is what it is. I liked it.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby vegetacron » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:11 am

Weapon: Spinning Augers
Cheesinator wrote:After Megatron tosses Sentinel aside, there's a close up of him and he says "What we need is a truce. All that I ask is that I retain my command...after all, what would you be without me?".

Prime responds with "I'm about to find out!" and then kills him.

There's no blaring music playing either. Not sure how you missed those lines.



But thats, yet another issue ive had with all these movies. Its like the people doing the music said, "Dialogue!? Who needs DIALOGUE when we have all this badass momentic music!? DUN-DUN-DA-DUN-DUN-DUH DA DUH DA DUN DUN!..."

The only thing i heard Megatron say is "...retain my command...after all, what would you be without me?"

But thats not just with this movie, thats with all of them. I tend to think Hugo Weaving pissed off the sound editors at some point, so the sound editors literally drown out half of his voice acting just to be dickheads. rofl
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Pot Bot » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:40 am

Weapon: Electro-Sword
vegetacron wrote:
Cheesinator wrote:After Megatron tosses Sentinel aside, there's a close up of him and he says "What we need is a truce. All that I ask is that I retain my command...after all, what would you be without me?".

Prime responds with "I'm about to find out!" and then kills him.

There's no blaring music playing either. Not sure how you missed those lines.



But thats, yet another issue ive had with all these movies. Its like the people doing the music said, "Dialogue!? Who needs DIALOGUE when we have all this badass momentic music!? DUN-DUN-DA-DUN-DUN-DUH DA DUH DA DUN DUN!..."

The only thing i heard Megatron say is "...retain my command...after all, what would you be without me?"

But thats not just with this movie, thats with all of them. I tend to think Hugo Weaving pissed off the sound editors at some point, so the sound editors literally drown out half of his voice acting just to be dickheads. rofl


Im glad im not the only one who didnt hear it. As Veg said, i heard nothing in that part apart from "what would you do without me", the lad i was with saw it tuesday night, and wednesday night and he heard the same, perhaps your Cinema has clearer sound than ours, but im seeing it again on tuesday so i'll listen again
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Autobot Strider » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:56 am

Motto: "Fortune favors the bold!"
Weapon: Railgun
Personally I don't have any problems with OP's portrayal. I mean, yeah, he's alot more violent than the G1 incarnation, but they are living in a much more violent "adult-themed" continutity. I think if Optimus had been more noble, it would have seemed a bit weak, considering the circumstances.

Now, I haven't seen DOTM yet, so I'm not sure how that will play into my opinion of him, but I liked that he was "harder" in these movies. Does OP take it too far in DOTM? I'll find out soon I guess.

As for what it means to be an Autobot in the movie-verse... just look at in the first movie, when Ironhide wants to exterminate Mojo, and then Sam's parents for being annoying. Would that have ever come up in a G1 episode? I don't think so.... ;)
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby chrisc4 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:17 am

Motto: "Never let fear overcome you."
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in '86 movie optimus arrives in autobot city and practically blasts every single decepticon in his way. i think the mood for optimus was perfect for the movie. he was pissed. and honestly, i dont blame him one bit.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Starscream GaGa » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:48 am

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Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
God this forum is like clockwork...

"Blah, blah, blah, Bayformers isn't a children's cartoon it's for adults and MATURE. We have no sense of humor. Let's make a million long-winded threads about how haters are wrong."

This is the second one in one day.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Autobot Strider » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:03 am

Motto: "Fortune favors the bold!"
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It occured to me that G1 characters and movie characters are about as different as the "John Wayne" style cowboys VS the "Clint Eastwood" style ones... both are heroic figures, but very different in tone and in how they accomplish their goals.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:07 pm

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Starscream GaGa wrote:God this forum is like clockwork...

"Blah, blah, blah, Bayformers isn't a children's cartoon it's for adults and MATURE. We have no sense of humor. Let's make a million long-winded threads about how haters are wrong."

This is the second one in one day.

In the weeks before DOTM, there were several Rotf hate threads, (not to mention you starting one) and you didnt seem to have a problem voicing your opinion in nearly all of them. At least this movie is new and relevent.
One things for sure. Like Bay or not, this is one time he did not lie. He stated that when a characters were killed, you were going to care. Concidering we have serverl threads on the matter provesbhe was right. You don't have to agree with how they died or Optimus behavior, but you can't deny it had an affect.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby covenant_of_unicron » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:33 am

Okay, as a fan of TF and prime for the better part of thirty years I feel I have to put my two cents in.

Optimus has always been a warrior, and yes that means sometimes killing an enemy. The difference I see is that the Bayformer prime is apathetic about violence at best and bloodthirsty at worst. A few key moments stand out in my mind such as killing an unarmed enemy in cold blood in Revenge of the fallen. Again in that movie after already defeating The Fallen he then goes one step too far and rips the face off of him. Are we trying to state that maybe Prime has PTSD and is going a bit over the top? That didn't set well with me for a while and then I saw DOTM, wow just wow. Here we have a Prime that not only shoots a foe in the head that was begging for his life, but he brutally kills Megatron moments after having his life saved by him. Not to mention that this version of Prime allowed God only knows how many civilian casualties because he needed to "teach the humans a lesson about Deceptiocons". It seems to me that the only lesson is that being an Autobot stands for nothing.

Granted this was a "adult oriented" movie, but can you honestly say that this movie wasn't geared towards children? Take one look down the toy store aisle and tell me that it was made for adults. You may think this is stupid and out dated, but kids learn from watching their heroes. This Prime has put some really dark, vengeful ideas in kids heads about what the good guys are supposed to be.

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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby cotss2012 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:44 pm

On the list of things that are wrong with the Bayverse (continuity errors, enemy scrotum, etc.), Prime's slight personality tweaks rank very, very, very low.

Tekka wrote:Also, If I had to blame a character, I'd blame Megatron for not taking out Prime while he was down.


Megatron has a habit of doing this. I'm reminded of the line "We'll terminate the Autobots at our leisure, when our more important work is done." He also repeated Hitler's Dunkirk blunder at least once with "Hey Starscream, let the Autobots win so I can kill them with acid rain instead"

Cheesinator wrote:After Megatron tosses Sentinel aside, there's a close up of him and he says "What we need is a truce. All that I ask is that I retain my command...after all, what would you be without me?".

Prime responds with "I'm about to find out!" and then kills him.


Close.

Megatron: "We need a truce. All I want is to be back in charge. Besides, who would you be without me?"

Optimus: "Time to find out."

It sounds like Megatron wants Optimus to serve him while the human slaves rebuild Cybertron, and Optimus sure wasn't about to put up with that.

Autobot Strider wrote:As for what it means to be an Autobot in the movie-verse... just look at in the first movie, when Ironhide wants to exterminate Mojo, and then Sam's parents for being annoying. Would that have ever come up in a G1 episode? I don't think so.... ;)


Indeed, Ironhide was much more out-of-character than Optimus ever was. THAT bugged me... but not as much as "you know we don't harm humans" literally minutes after they've arrived on an unknown alien planet for the very first time.

covenant_of_unicron wrote:Granted this was a "adult oriented" movie, but can you honestly say that this movie wasn't geared towards children? Take one look down the toy store aisle and tell me that it was made for adults.


The MPAA rating indicates that it's aimed at the 13+ crowd.
I do not blame Michael Bay for crapping all over a huge part of my childhood. He just directed the scripts that were given to him. I blame Orci, Kurtzman, and Krueger, who seem completely incapable of concocting a story that even halfway makes sense.

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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Aximalli_Prime » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:51 am

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I never really minded him in the movieverse. I think his level of violence made the character more heroic and epic, and just more interesting to watch. :BOT:
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Slashercon » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:28 pm

Motto: "Victory without effort, is failure!!"
Weapon: Dual Bladed Sword
Chupacabra Convoy wrote:While Megatron did call for a truce at the end, I'm not sure how it would work exactly. I mean would Megatron still call for the human race to be slaves to fix Cybertron? Also, considering how vastly out numbered the Autobots are, wouldn't any truce be more like a formal surrender than actual truce? It goes against Prime's main goal which was to work with humanity to protect them from the Decepticons, which was the idea from the first movie.

Further more, if Prime had accepted, it doesn't mean that the rest of the planet would've followed suit. The relationship with the humans was all ready tenuous at best. If Optimus had accepted a truce with Megatron leading both forces, then the Autobots as a whole, would've been lumped in with the cons. At that point, if I was POTUS, my finger would've been the button (IE: Launching Nukes at Chicago[I would be more triggerhappy, than Triggerhappy]). So that's one reason for killing Megatron and Sentinel Prime.

The other? They started the war. A war which caused them to cripple Cybertron. In most cases, any Megatrons' post civil war plans always involve turing Cybertron into a mobile planetary fortress to be the heart of his intergalactic empire. I am going out on a limb and assume Movie Megatron's plans were the same. Also, Sentinel and Megatron share the view that all Transformers are gods compared to anything else. So even if a truce was made, I don't think either of them would've tolerated taking orders from humanity. Prime doesn't share that view at all. Even if Humanity hates his race, he still views it as a personal responsibility to protect them. Their (Megatron's and Prime's )ideologies are just too opposite from each other to be in a peacefully coexistence for anything longer than a short amount of time. Much like Magneto and Xavier.

On a personal level, Prime (I think) was too disgusted with them to even consider a truce. He just had to destroy his home world because of them, and their ambitions. There might've been a chance to someday work towards fixing Cybertron, but now thanks to them, not only are the Transformers nearly extinct, but any hope of restoring Cybertron looks to be over, finished. In Prime's mind, if Sentinel choose to reward the Autobots' faith in Sentinel, they might've been able to win the war with the space bridge tech, but he choose to betray them. Also Megatron's mad ambition had finally went too far. Everything Prime had ever believed in or cherished was destroyed by them. After millions of years of that, I would hate them more than anything for turning me into a warmonger by default and for damn near killing everyone I ever knew. He knows what happens when two Hitlers are allowed to live. Did they show remorse? Yes, but no amount remorse shown by them justifies their continued existence.

Also, after 27 years, it is great to see Prime end it.




I think you said everything that needed to be said about the ending to DOTM. I'm still dissapointed in the ending. But i have a better perspective on the matter now.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Slashercon » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:33 pm

Motto: "Victory without effort, is failure!!"
Weapon: Dual Bladed Sword
Cheesinator wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:No no no...

Sentinel got hit like, 3 times and had his hat knocked off. He shot friends in the back.

Megatron just 10 seconds earlier betrayed his greatest partnership.

In a good dojo, students are taught that "Dead tigers are the ones that kill you." Meaning that it's the battles you assume you've won that are easily lost. Good for Prime to finish what had to be done.


I'm not debating whether they deserved to die (they did). I'm saying that when Optimus them, they were no longer threats: Megatron was definitely not going to kill Optimus. He had the opportunity to let Optimus die, and he chose to save him. He then had the opportunity to kill an injured Optimus, and chose not to. Plus, his army was utterly defeated and the grand scheme had failed.

Similarly, Sentinel was beaten to the point he couldn't even get up. Optimus had time to have a ridiculous conversation with Megatron, kill him, get Megatron's gun and then exchange a few words with Sentinel...by which point Sentinel could still barely prop himself up with his arms. He was not a threat.

The point is, this was a movie; it's generally fine to kill the villains, but very rarely are they in a situation like Megatron or Sentinel. I can't think of another scenario where the bad guy saves the hero, offers a truce and is brutally killed anyway (by the 'hero' supposedly being a through-and-through good guy).




Megatron's tone of voice sure didn't sound like he was serious about that truce (unlike in the comic where he is very saddened and serious).
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby cotss2012 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:40 pm

Another thing that bugs me: G1 Optimus, as fond as he was of Earth and humans, was still loyal to Cybertron and the future of the Transformers, above all else. Bayverse Optimus didn't give a moment's pause or shed a single tear at Cybertron's annihilation.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby Evil_the_Nub » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:56 pm

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cotss2012 wrote:Another thing that bugs me: G1 Optimus, as fond as he was of Earth and humans, was still loyal to Cybertron and the future of the Transformers, above all else. Bayverse Optimus didn't give a moment's pause or shed a single tear at Cybertron's annihilation.

I don't think Transformers can cry. The way I see it is Optimus accepted that Cybertron is gone centuries ago. He would like to see it restored, but not if it's going to cost another race.
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Re: Still complaining about Movieverse Optimus Prime?

Postby SlyTF1 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:03 pm

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Evil_the_Nub wrote:
cotss2012 wrote:Another thing that bugs me: G1 Optimus, as fond as he was of Earth and humans, was still loyal to Cybertron and the future of the Transformers, above all else. Bayverse Optimus didn't give a moment's pause or shed a single tear at Cybertron's annihilation.

I don't think Transformers can cry. The way I see it is Optimus accepted that Cybertron is gone centuries ago. He would like to see it restored, but not if it's going to cost another race.



Bumblebee cried in ROTF. Optimus also gave a pause in ROTF when he was talking to Sam in the graveyard.
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