Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:04 pm**

zonkers wrote:
G2 inspired?

i do mean the technicolor-yawn color scheme.. i realize depthcharge is a beast wars character, but these colors still seem in line with the g2 theme, to me-- bright, overly-contrasty, garish... only semi-related, but i never cared for the beast sagas, either...

This is really more in line with the '06 set than anything G2 really. Albeit 7 years too late. By your descriptions figures such as Grapple and Hot Spot are G2 - The actual figure is going to be much less vibrant than the photo suggests, I'm sure.

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:31 pm**

i think he could look much better, but he does look okay. I'm a big fan of the character so wouldn't have minded being able to get my hands on him.

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:24 pm**

Blurrz wrote:This is really more in line with the '06 set than anything G2 really. Albeit 7 years too late. By your descriptions figures such as Grapple and Hot Spot are G2 - The actual figure is going to be much less vibrant than the photo suggests, I'm sure.

hmmmmm..

i think both of those examples may be on the 'bright' side, but not excessively contrasty... on both, their secondary colors are blacks & greys; they let the primary color be the primary color... incidentally, i did pass on both of those repaints... not because the colors were too bright, but i didn't think there was anything 'wow' enough about them to reprise the mold in my collection...

but this depthcharge just strikes me as so 'busy', color-wise... its like everything is competing to be the primary (main) color... i think the blue is very primary (RGB-wise), the yellow doesn't strike me as 'gold', & also appears very primary, & then the pink (too light for magenta? i don't get the impression of purple) is a real turn off... i understand what you're saying about the pic making it look too vibrant, but i still have to say, based on this pic, i'm not motivated to stay a tfcc member... i've been turned off by all the tfcc g2 reprisals, & to me, this fig is not any kind of a departure... the only one of their g2-inspired repaints i acquired was punch-counterpunch, & even on him, the lavender & neon green on the tail, as well as the red trim on the wheels, all lend to this 'busy' feel... thankfully on him those are all relatively minor touches...

i think it goes for most of us that we are most attached to the characters we grew up with... i was a g1 kid... maybe if i grew up with the beast sagas, i'd feel differently...

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:31 pm**

TFCC can say Depth Charge all they want, but any fan of Beast Wars/Machines and RID who knows their bots will look at this and say "Sky-byte"

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:32 pm**

I like it.
Won't get it but i like it.

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:38 pm**

Manterax Prime wrote:TFCC can say Depth Charge all they want, but any fan of Beast Wars/Machines and RID who knows their bots will look at this and say "Sky-byte"

actually, that was my 1st guess before i read the name

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:23 pm**

I only renewed for the Botcon discount. I guess he will join TFCC Airazor, DOTM Quickstrike, and PE Black Arachnia in my "Beast Wars never Happened" Cybertronian shelf. Hasbro alligns continuities, but I erase them and incorporate their characters into G1.

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:15 pm**

i am actually looking forward to this guy
love that mold and the color scheme pops
fills the temporary DCharge space in my collection until i get a BWars fig

Posted: **Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:30 am**

Rated X wrote:I only renewed for the Botcon discount. I guess he will join TFCC Airazor, DOTM Quickstrike, and PE Black Arachnia in my "Beast Wars never Happened" Cybertronian shelf. Hasbro alligns continuities, but I erase them and incorporate their characters into G1.

Beast Wars is part of G1. So you're taking G1 characters and putting them....back into G1.

Or if we see DOTM Quickstrike and PE whatever they're calling the Blackarachnia bike as being from actual separate continuities, aren't you just aligning everything under G1, IE the same thing you lambast Hasbro for doing under a different banner? Your collection is yours to do with as you please, certainly, but what I recall of your explanations always seem to ride on false reasoning.

Well, this guy is okay. It's not my Depthcharge that I grew up with (and whose toy I never actually owned, I only had Rampage), but it's a cool-looking fig. I'd probably spring for an actual Transmetal Depth Charge on eBay, though, if I were in the market. Pre-Earth Beast Warriors don't really strike my fancy, and this one just doesn't seem right. His name is Depthcharge, after all, he should be a submarine or something.

Posted: **Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:12 am**

That Bot wrote:
Rated X wrote:I only renewed for the Botcon discount. I guess he will join TFCC Airazor, DOTM Quickstrike, and PE Black Arachnia in my "Beast Wars never Happened" Cybertronian shelf. Hasbro alligns continuities, but I erase them and incorporate their characters into G1.

Beast Wars is part of G1. So you're taking G1 characters and putting them....back into G1.
Or if we see DOTM Quickstrike and PE whatever they're calling the Blackarachnia bike as being from actual separate continuities, aren't you just aligning everything under G1, IE the same thing you lambast Hasbro for doing under a different banner? Your collection is yours to do with as you please, certainly, but what I recall of your explanations always seem to ride on false reasoning.

Well, this guy is okay. It's not my Depthcharge that I grew up with (and whose toy I never actually owned, I only had Rampage), but it's a cool-looking fig. I'd probably spring for an actual Transmetal Depth Charge on eBay, though, if I were in the market. Pre-Earth Beast Warriors don't really strike my fancy, and this one just doesn't seem right. His name is Depthcharge, after all, he should be a submarine or something.

Beast Wars references to G1 are very vauge. Most notably you have the Ark back the age of the Dinosaurs before they awoke. No explanation is offered on why Megatron shares the name of his Predacessor, If Optimus Primal is related to the line of Primes after Ginrai, or why the Beast Wars robots are so small next to the ark robots if they came from the same "Cybertron". Did Cybertron shrink in it's 2nd golden era ? Then you have Starscreams ghost. (Even though Unicron gave Starscream his body back in G1 and wasnt a ghost anymore) I only watched the series once and cant remember any other vauge refrences to G1. To me it seems like the writers wrote G1 into the story later on in the series to appease G1 fans who wernt buying into the beast era. But it doesnr seem to be something they intended to do from the beginning in my honest opinion.

On my collection, Anything from another continuity automatically becomes "Ancient Cybertronian" from G1. You got a whole planet full of unseen robots and who's to say the G1 episodes covered all their stories and sagas. I keep thinking about the G1 movie scene where Unicron attacked Cybertron and Shockwave said "Were under attack, Decepticons scramble !" Out comes thousands of generic Decepticons who can easily be represented by figures from other continuities that look Cybertronian. Same is to be said with generic Autobots on the episode where the Aerialbots travel back in time or when the Quints controlled Cybertron leading up to the great wars. Like I said, I just erased the other continuities and re-purposed the figures as generic G1 characters. Unlike Hasbro, I didnt allign anything.

Posted: **Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:05 am**

And canceled...$40 saved! Weird they went this route after knocking it out of the park last year. Whatevs...

Posted: **Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:41 pm**

Rated X wrote:No explanation is offered on why Megatron shares the name of his Predacessor,

He chose it deliberately.

If Optimus Primal is related to the line of Primes after Ginrai,

He's not. He's a random Cybertronian who chose the name as a tribute to the great Autobot leader, similar to what Megatron did. From a toy standpoint, before the show, the BW characters were meant to be the original Optimus Prime and Megatron, hence the names.

or why the Beast Wars robots are so small next to the ark robots if they came from the same "Cybertron". Did Cybertron shrink in it's 2nd golden era ?

I don't remember if this is explained in the show or supplementary media, but there was a great reformation where all Cybertronians upgraded to smaller, more efficient bodies.

Then you have Starscreams ghost. (Even though Unicron gave Starscream his body back in G1 and wasnt a ghost anymore)

Honestly I don't remember this at all, so I can't provide any input.

I only watched the series once and cant remember any other vauge refrences to G1. To me it seems like the writers wrote G1 into the story later on in the series to appease G1 fans who wernt buying into the beast era. But it doesnr seem to be something they intended to do from the beginning in my honest opinion.

The writers were initially on the fence about whether to set Beast Wars on Earth or not, and they eventually settled on it being Earth at the end of the first season. Large and small references to the G1 cartoon were there from the beginning, and any question of whether it was in the G1 timeline was settled in Beast Machines.

Like I said, I just erased the other continuities and re-purposed the figures as generic G1 characters. Unlike Hasbro, I didnt allign anything.

To be technical, Hasbro didn't align previous continuities. They took ideas from old ones and made a new one to hold all new properties. It's not like G1 Optimus Prime is running around with AEC Hot Shot and Movie Ironhide. On the flip side, that's basically exactly what you're doing. Even if you pretend the figures are unseen G1 characters, they're still technically from other universes. So by erasing the other continuities and putting their characters in G1 (even if you make them into new G1 characters), you're doing more aligning than Hasbro.

I don't want to dwell on this too much, because it's not the point of the topic. I just wanted to address some of your points. Obviously, you're free to do as you want with your collection.

Posted: **Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:44 pm**

That Bot wrote:
Rated X wrote:
Then you have Starscreams ghost. (Even though Unicron gave Starscream his body back in G1 and wasnt a ghost anymore)

Honestly I don't remember this at all, so I can't provide any input.

Season 3 Episode 15 Ghost in the Machine

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Machine

I guess we have a different opinion on what alligning means, but that cool.

Posted: **Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:00 pm**

zonkers wrote:
Manterax Prime wrote:TFCC can say Depth Charge all they want, but any fan of Beast Wars/Machines and RID who knows their bots will look at this and say "Sky-byte"

actually, that was my 1st guess before i read the name

But they already did Sky-Byte.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sky-Byte_(G2)

Posted: **Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:31 pm**

Rated X wrote:Most notably you have the Ark back the age of the Dinosaurs before they awoke.

Ummm... BW had nothing to do with the Dinosaur time period. All "dinoformers" in the show scanned fossils that were in the ground.

Rated X wrote:No explanation is offered on why Megatron shares the name of his Predacessor,

It is stated that BW Megs "took his name" from the original Megs.

Rated X wrote:If Optimus Primal is related to the line of Primes after Ginrai,

BW Optimus mentions being a descendent of Optimus Prime, but that might've been in BM, can't remember for sure.

Rated X wrote:Then you have Starscreams ghost. (Even though Unicron gave Starscream his body back in G1 and wasnt a ghost anymore)

And then SS body was badly damaged and wasn't he last seen drifting off through space? I always believed that he was killed again.

Rated X wrote:I only watched the series once and cant remember any other vauge refrences to G1. To me it seems like the writers wrote G1 into the story later on in the series to appease G1 fans who wernt buying into the beast era. But it doesnr seem to be something they intended to do from the beginning in my honest opinion.

That Bot wrote:The writers were initially on the fence about whether to set Beast Wars on Earth or not, and they eventually settled on it being Earth at the end of the first season. Large and small references to the G1 cartoon were there from the beginning, and any question of whether it was in the G1 timeline was settled in Beast Machines.

It was Hasbro that was on the fence. The writers basically made it Earth and added a second moon just in case Has wanted it to be an alien planet. They admit that they didn't know much about G1 when they started but continued to add little bits here and there as they went.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:24 am**

I have to be brutally honest here. I don't like it. Maybe if they, like JelZe implied, added more detail to the character, my feelings would be a bit different. But seeing the fact they followed-up an excellent 2012 piece with this does not make me want to sign up for their membership anytime soon. So Hasbro? The money that could have gone for this and Ultra Mammoth are going towards 3-4 more pieces, as well as both the Generations 2012 book and the upcoming issue of Kerokero Ace. :lol:

As with the talks of the Beast Era being part of the Generation One continuity, that is pretty much like the role of Deputy Supreme Commander. Let me explain - In the original Takara (read: Cybertron v. Destron) continuity, the two known characters to hold this role were Ultra Magnus (Transformers: The Movie, Kiss Players) and Sky Garry (Battlestars). And the main purpose of their role was to hold the position until a proper successor comes along. Which means that since Takara had never appointed Metalhawk this position in the animated continuity of Masterforce, he was also given the position of Deputy Supreme Commander (as he was able to appoint the rank of Supreme Commander to Ginrai). So pretty much, that is what Hasbro's version of the Beast Era is - The Deputy Supreme Commander. As in overlooked, underused, and not sure it does exist by some.

Point being is that the writers did connect Beast Wars to Generation One. Atop of Optimus Prime, Megatron, and their crew being there, Rattrap did point out that Arcee was his multi-great-aunt. Plus, everything else people have already said. But for me, I would prefer following the Takara version. On account that its continuity is etched into G1 history, which includes Robot Masters. That, and Convoy ended up not becoming just a name... But a rank as well. But that is for a different topic.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:12 am**

Rated X wrote:Beast Wars references to G1 are very vauge. Most notably you have the Ark back the age of the Dinosaurs before they awoke.

Like others said, the dinos were already dead. Megatron, Dinobot, and Terrorsaur scanned fossils.

Rated X wrote:No explanation is offered on why Megatron shares the name of his Predacessor,

He took it form the Covenant of Primus, naming himself after the great conqueror named "Megatron" as described within its datatracks.

Rated X wrote:If Optimus Primal is related to the line of Primes after Ginrai,

1. Primal was named after Prime.
2. Ginrai is not a Prime.
3. Ginrai is Japanese continuity. He doesn't exist in any American continuity. And since you so blatantly treat the G1 cartoon as Numero Uno, G1 cartoon Optimus Prime became a Powermaster at some point after "The Rebirth", further illustrating Ginrai's lack of existence there.

Rated X wrote:or why the Beast Wars robots are so small next to the ark robots if they came from the same "Cybertron". Did Cybertron shrink in it's 2nd golden era ?

They explicitly referred to the "Great Upgrade" as being an energy conservation measure in the conversion from Autobot to Maximal. Iacon was abandoned and new cities like Cybertropolis were built higher up on the planet's surface.

Rated X wrote:Then you have Starscreams ghost. (Even though Unicron gave Starscream his body back in G1 and wasnt a ghost anymore)

Some postulate that Starscream made his BW appearance chronologically prior to his two G1 ghost episodes, between TF: The Movie and "Starscream's Ghost".

Rated X wrote:I only watched the series once and cant remember any other vauge refrences to G1.

Ravage
Galvatron
Teletraan I
Primus
Unicron
Shrapnel
The Hate Plague
Arcee
Crystal City
Constructicon
"You Optimuses do enjoy sacrificing yourselves"
Silverbolt's naming himself reflecting how G1 Silverbolt named himself
The Matrix
"Where all are one"
G1 Megatron's message
All the Autobots and Decepticons inside the Ark
"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings"
"Transform and roll out"
Subgrid Zarak
The Nemesis

Rated X wrote:To me it seems like the writers wrote G1 into the story later on in the series to appease G1 fans who wernt buying into the beast era. But it doesnr seem to be something they intended to do from the beginning in my honest opinion.

Regardless, the final product trumps authorial intent.

Rated X wrote:Like I said, I just erased the other continuities and re-purposed the figures as generic G1 characters. Unlike Hasbro, I didnt allign anything.

So you took pieces of other continuities to suit your own continuity, and then discarded the rest of the other continuities that you didn't need, yes? Well, that's exactly what Hasbro's done with the Aligned Continuity. They "aligned" bits and pieces, elements of existing continuities, while discarding the stuff that they didn't need, to make their Aligned continuity. What you've done only differs in specifics, but the concept itself is identical.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:11 am**

I may wait until after the deadline and just roll the dice on the 2014 figure. Not impressed with this one.

But I do want to keep reading Beast Wars: Shattered Glass, so I am going to subscribe...

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:47 am**

Sabrblade wrote:
Rated X wrote:If Optimus Primal is related to the line of Primes after Ginrai,
1. Primal was named after Prime.
2. Ginrai is not a Prime.
3. Ginrai is Japanese continuity. He doesn't exist in any American continuity. And since you so blatantly treat the G1 cartoon as Numero Uno, G1 cartoon Optimus Prime became a Powermaster at some point after "The Rebirth", further illustrating Ginrai's lack of existence there.

Correcting you right there.
1) Toy bio says that Optimus Primal is Optimus Prime. But this being the cartoon chat, you are right even though it is not confirmed if he chose the name "Optimus" or was simply given the name. Because in Japanese continuity, he was given it... As it is both a name and a rank within the Cybertron faction. :-B

2) Technically both correct and incorrect. Incorrect because the body used was meant for Convoy and the manga hinted at the notion that he might have been the reincarnation of Convoy. Correct because Ginrai Convoy sounds like a Japanese country music singer name, not a Transformer. :lol:

3) 100% incorrect. When Hasbro established "Commemorative Series II" Powermaster Optimus Prime (with Apex Armor), they established that Ginrai was his Nebulan partner. TFwiki, however, says Hi-Q. But both Shmax and Wikipedia says Ginrai. So while it was Hi-Q in the Marvel continuity, and unknown in the post-Rebirth continuity, the name Ginrai has been established within the toy portion of the continuity.

Now that is settled... Do you think I should establish "Alternity" Dai Atlas as an "Exclusive" (because his role prior to joining the Alternity is unknown) or have him be a "G1-based Supreme Commander" (despite what I just established)? And please note that I only have three categories, and the third is "Manga." :-?

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:52 am**

Henry921 wrote:I may wait until after the deadline and just roll the dice on the 2014 figure. Not impressed with this one.

But I do want to keep reading Beast Wars: Shattered Glass, so I am going to subscribe...

Tell me how it turns out. Because after the lackluster feeling I got with ReGeneration One, and the fact that I picked up the other two series just out of curiosity... I figured that I will be $40 more curious before spending that and another $80 on more Transformers related stuff. :lol:

But honestly... I am expecting this to be their best story yet.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:45 am**

I don't care what anyone else thinks, this guy is gonna fit wonderfully in my pre-BW collection. Any opportunity to add more figures into that small part of my collection is a happy occasion for me. My favorite and first convention and set, lots of great memories. I would love more figures to add to them. I really hope to see more from next year's subscription service if not the freebie.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:39 am**

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Correcting you right there.
1) Toy bio says that Optimus Primal is Optimus Prime. But this being the cartoon chat, you are right even though it is not confirmed if he chose the name "Optimus" or was simply given the name. Because in Japanese continuity, he was given it... As it is both a name and a rank within the Cybertron faction.

The original toy bios were written before the show was conceived and have nothing to do with the show. The show changed several things from how the toy bios were written, and thus the original toy bios are not canon to the cartoon.

Also, I wasn't talking about the Japanese continuity at all in this point, so it's needless to bring it up in this point.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:2) Technically both correct and incorrect. Incorrect because the body used was meant for Convoy and the manga hinted at the notion that he might have been the reincarnation of Convoy. Correct because Ginrai Convoy sounds like a Japanese country music singer name, not a Transformer.

Not all Primes are Convoys and not all Convoys are Primes. And Ginrai was never given the title of "Convoy" despite his being given the Supreme Commander rank. No Supreme Commander after Rodimus Convoy (aside from Convoy himself after resurrection) got the title in the G1 era.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:3) 100% incorrect. When Hasbro established "Commemorative Series II" Powermaster Optimus Prime (with Apex Armor), they established that Ginrai was his Nebulan partner. TFwiki, however, says Hi-Q. But both Shmax and Wikipedia says Ginrai. So while it was Hi-Q in the Marvel continuity, and unknown in the post-Rebirth continuity, the name Ginrai has been established within the toy portion of the continuity.

When I said "Ginrai doesn't exist", I meant specifically the human trucker-turned-Godmaster character, who has never appeared in any American fiction.

The "Ginrai" you're thinking of is the Nebulan scientist Hi-Q. The reason his Commerative Series II toy was named "Ginrai" was because, at the time, Dreamwave had given Hi-Q that name in their "More Than Meets the Eye" profile books. Hi-Q is simply named "Ginrai" in the Dreamwave continuity, but he is not the same guy as the Masterforce character and I was speaking of "Ginrai the character" not "Ginrai the name".

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:10 pm**

I get a kick out of people arguing over TF fiction. The TF "fiction" is nothing but a bunch of lazily written stories that were invented to sell toys. The fiction serves the toys, not vice versa. Your own made-up fiction is every bit as legitimate as the one presented in the comics, TV shows, movies, etc.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:10 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:The original toy bios were written before the show was conceived and have nothing to do with the show. The show changed several things from how the toy bios were written, and thus the original toy bios are not canon to the cartoon.

However, your own words is that "Prime is named after Prime" and not "Optimus either was named after, or chosen the name of, Optimus. And that he only obtained the name "Prime" when he allowed his spark to merge with Optimus' spark." And that both the name and reason behind their chance meeting was said to be tied to the original Optimus Primal's bio. Something, while not obviously cartoon canon, does help further validate the point you were trying to make.

So yeah... You can say whatever you want, it is not the complete fact. :lol:

Sabrblade wrote:Also, I wasn't talking about the Japanese continuity at all in this point, so it's needless to bring it up in this point.

Let me make this clear - I don't care. Why? Because this subject was brought up in Robot Masters. As in further proof that you are correct, and even Takara treated both series as part of the same timeline/continuity. :lol:

Sabrblade wrote:Not all Primes are Convoys and not all Convoys are Primes. And Ginrai was never given the title of "Convoy" despite his being given the Supreme Commander rank. No Supreme Commander after Rodimus Convoy (aside from Convoy himself after resurrection) got the title in the G1 era.

Really. You mean the fact that I have a complete listing of every Supreme Commander, Convoy, and Prime on my laptop means that I do not know that? Oh wait... You made a huge error in your response! Because all knowledgeable fans know that the use of "Convoy" was not a title or rank until the beginning of Takara's Beast Era. The use of Convoy in Takara's fiction was due to the fusion of Hot Rodimus and Convoy. This was based on the fact that Hasbro fused the two characters with the use of the Matrix, hence why he went from being Hot Rod to Rodimus Prime.

Sabrblade wrote:The "Ginrai" you're thinking of is the Nebulan scientist Hi-Q. The reason his Commerative Series II toy was named "Ginrai" was because, at the time, Dreamwave had given Hi-Q that name in their "More Than Meets the Eye" profile books. Hi-Q is simply named "Ginrai" in the Dreamwave continuity, but he is not the same guy as the Masterforce character and I was speaking of "Ginrai the character" not "Ginrai the name".

And when it comes to Hasbro, IDW, and the copyright laws, you are wrong on both accounts. My point is valid, as it is based on whatever and however the hell Hasbro treats both Ginrai and Hi-Q. And seeing how they no longer seem to consider DW's work valid... You can say whatever you like, but it does not mean that it is the final say.

Now with you being corrected, I am hoping to hear from those who can stay on this topic, as I am more interested in those who like the figure... Not those who need to put their pride before the topic (ala 2012).

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:38 pm**

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:However, your own words is that "Prime is named after Prime" and not "Optimus either was named after, or chosen the name of, Optimus. And that he only obtained the name "Prime" when he allowed his spark to merge with Optimus' spark." And that both the name and reason behind their chance meeting was said to be tied to the original Optimus Primal's bio. Something, while not obviously cartoon canon, does help further validate the point you were trying to make.

So yeah... You can say whatever you want, it is not the complete fact.

I was talking about the show character and nothing else. Cartoon Optimus Primal as a character was named after G1 Optimus Prime. That's all I was saying.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Let me make this clear - I don't care. Why? Because this subject was brought up in Robot Masters. As in further proof that you are correct, and even Takara treated both series as part of the same timeline/continuity.

Robot Masters? Why bring that up when that wasn't related to what I was talking about?

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Really. You mean the fact that I have a complete listing of every Supreme Commander, Convoy, and Prime on my laptop means that I do not know that? Oh wait... You made a huge error in your response! Because all knowledgeable fans know that the use of "Convoy" was not a title or rank until the beginning of Takara's Beast Era. The use of Convoy in Takara's fiction was due to the fusion of Hot Rodimus and Convoy. This was based on the fact that Hasbro fused the two characters with the use of the Matrix, hence why he went from being Hot Rod to Rodimus Prime.

In the case of Ginrai, however, he wasn't a Convoy. He was a Supreme Commander, but not a Convoy. That's all I was saying.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:And when it comes to Hasbro, IDW, and the copyright laws, you are wrong on both accounts. My point is valid, as it is based on whatever and however the hell Hasbro treats both Ginrai and Hi-Q. And seeing how they no longer seem to consider DW's work valid... You can say whatever you like, but it does not mean that it is the final say.

The Dreamwave stuff still existed. It's not like it was just erased from reality. IDW even reprinted the "More Than Meets the Eye" books in trade form, in which Hi-Q is named Ginrai and is a different guy from the Ginrai I was talking about.

In other words, there are TWO guys named "Ginrai" in the multiverse. One's a Godmaster (the guy I was taling about), and the other's a version of Hi-Q. The former is the one who doesn't exist in American fiction, and that's all I was saying.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:Now with you being corrected, I am hoping to hear from those who can stay on this topic, as I am more interested in those who like the figure... Not those who need to put their pride before the topic (ala 2012).

Oh right, yeah, there's Depth Charge.

Depth Charge... GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME! *grabby hands* Oh yeah, I want it!

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