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The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Burn » Sun May 19, 2013 12:46 am

He's the "forgotten" Doctor. The one that Paul McGann regenerated into and the one that fought in the Time War, and the one that regenerated into Christopher Eccelston thus pushing Eccelston, Tennant and Smith down the line.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Shadowman » Sun May 19, 2013 1:20 am

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Burn wrote:He's the "forgotten" Doctor. The one that Paul McGann regenerated into and the one that fought in the Time War, and the one that regenerated into Christopher Eccelston thus pushing Eccelston, Tennant and Smith down the line.


Except he committed some horrible atrocity that caused him to no longer qualify as the Doctor, and was more or less "disowned" by the other regenerations. So Matt Smith is still the Eleventh Doctor by virtue of John Hurt's Doctor--I am now naming him the Un-Doctor--having title revoked.

...I think. Honestly it's all up in the air until Moffat tells us what the hell just happened.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Burn » Sun May 19, 2013 1:59 am

Still the same body, still used up a regeneration.

But of course, it was reported by The Sun so who knows how accurate that is.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Shadowman » Sun May 19, 2013 3:18 am

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Burn wrote:Still the same body, still used up a regeneration.

But of course, it was reported by The Sun so who knows how accurate that is.


And that means when Matt Smith hangs up his bow-tie, they're going to have to wring as much as they can out of the next guy, or conveniently forget the whole 13-renegeration limit.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Burn » Sun May 19, 2013 4:27 am

There was a comment made in an episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures that did negate the 12 regeneration limit.

However at some point, he dies for good.

The Great Intelligence also mentioned that The Doctor is known by other names, one of which being The Valeyard who The Doctor is suppose to become on his final regeneration.

Watched the episode twice now, and one thing I really really want is a Strax/Vestara/Jenny spin-off show. At the very least, more Strax.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Cyber Bishop » Sun May 19, 2013 7:15 am

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Wow, that is a twist.. I was thinking after I watched it again that maybe somehow he was an older version of McGann's doctor, not one that he regenerated into.. Of course that news the Sun is reporting could be how it is being thrown out there just to throw us off..
If he was forgotten then why all the talk about the time war and what he did in it??? That part does not make any sense to me.. The Doctor has clearly stated on


http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Last_Great_Time_War
I know this is a fan site and it has the eighth Doctor named.. This is gong to be a lot of issues and facts to rewrite now.

After reading this article below I can see how they possibly could work more regenerations in now (bolded red part).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_War_%28Doctor_Who%29

As the war progressed the Time Lords became increasingly aggressive and unscrupulous. At one point, they resurrected the Master, renegade Time Lord and nemesis to the Doctor, as they believed him to be the "perfect warrior for a time war". It's implied that they gave him a full new set of regenerations as was done to all Time Lords fighting in the war, and that the Eye of Harmony could be used as a means to gain more regenerations. However, after the Dalek Emperor gained control of the Cruciform, the Master deserted his post, used the chameleon arch to disguise himself as a human and escaped to a time period shortly before the end of the universe. Genetically a human, he escaped the destruction of all Time Lords as well as detection by the Doctor – who was unaware of his resurrection in the first place. The Master also remained ignorant of the latter phase and outcome of the war until told by the Doctor many years later.[9]


And this..

Eighth Doctor Adventures

In a story arc stretching through several of the Eighth Doctor Adventures, sometime in the Doctor's future, a war is fought between the Time Lords and an unnamed Enemy, the Eighth Doctor becoming involved in the events of the war during the events of Alien Bodies, when he unintentionally becomes involved in an auction for the body of his future self due to his biodata codes being the only means of accessing dangerous Time Lord secrets, and The Taking of Planet 5, where he must stop a group of future Time Lords from releasing the monstrous Fendahl in an attempt to use it as a weapon. In this story arc, Gallifrey is also destroyed as a result of the Eighth Doctor attempting to prevent the war from beginning as the Enemy begin their first assault in- having learned that he unintentionally provoked the War-, believing that it would be better for the Time Lords to die now rather than experience a war that would dehumanise them to the point of becoming monsters which all evidence suggests they could not win (The Ancestor Cell, 2000). This cataclysm also creates an event horizon in time that prevents anyone from entering Gallifrey's relative past or travelling from it to the present or future. The last Eighth Doctor Adventures novel, The Gallifrey Chronicles, establishes that the Doctor has the ability to restore the planet and its inhabitants, having downloaded the contents of the Matrix into his subconscious mind in the minutes before Gallifrey's destruction, albeit at the cost of his own memories. The novel ends without revealing if he does indeed do this.

Russell T Davies, executive producer of the series, commented that there is no connection between the War of the books and the Time War of the television series, comparing Gallifrey being destroyed twice with Earth's two World Wars. He also said that he was "usually happy for old and new fans to invent the Complete History of the Doctor in their heads, completely free of the production team's hot and heavy hands".

Despite this unequivocal statement, writer Lance Parkin speculated in an essay that the two destructions of Gallifrey may be the same event seen from two different perspectives, with the Eighth Doctor present twice (and both times responsible for the planet's destruction). This is supported due to the novels' destruction of Gallifrey involving an evil future version of the Eighth Doctor as the leader of the invading force, with the events leading to Gallifrey's destruction being triggered by the Doctor's attempt to prevent that future from coming to pass.

Another version of the Eighth Doctor Adventures' War, referred to as the "War in Heaven", also appears in the Faction Paradox novels conceived by Lawrence Miles.



Of course the easiest way to fix this is to use the Doctor's "secrets" angle..
But then it still does not make sense as he has stated multiple times since Eccleson that he ended the time war, so that cannot be the act which made John Hurt the "forgotten" Doctor.
It has to be something else.


Also the talk of 12 regenerations, I am willing to bet that when that was put in there the writers did not realize or think that the show would still be going strong some 50 years later..
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Lunatyk » Sun May 19, 2013 10:46 am

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Burn wrote:Still the same body, still used up a regeneration.
didn't River, at some point, give The Doctor all of her remaining regenerations?
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Burn » Sun May 19, 2013 2:08 pm

River had regenerations?

CB - Thing to remember though is the books are very much their own continuity even though we've seen hints from RTD and Moffatt of borrowing concepts from them.

It wouldn't surprise me if John Hurt turns out to be The Valeyard as the books have the Sixth Doctor struggling to come to terms that it's his destiny to become The Valeyard and has given in and done an Anakin.

So it's possible that he became The Valeyard during the Time War. His regenerations after that remember what he did but choose to not recognise him as The Doctor, but rather The Valeyard, but they are still the same person regardless.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Shadowman » Sun May 19, 2013 2:38 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Burn wrote:Watched the episode twice now, and one thing I really really want is a Strax/Vestara/Jenny spin-off show. At the very least, more Strax.


Yes. I've been dying for that since Demon's Run. And that was before Strax joined them properly.

Burn wrote:River had regenerations?


Yeah, we've seen her regenerate twice so far. (Melody to Mel, then Mel to River)
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Burn » Sun May 19, 2013 2:42 pm

Yeah I remembered while making breakfast. Goes to show how much attention I've paid to that character.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Cyber Bishop » Sun May 19, 2013 3:22 pm

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Burn wrote:River had regenerations?

CB - Thing to remember though is the books are very much their own continuity even though we've seen hints from RTD and Moffatt of borrowing concepts from them.

It wouldn't surprise me if John Hurt turns out to be The Valeyard as the books have the Sixth Doctor struggling to come to terms that it's his destiny to become The Valeyard and has given in and done an Anakin.

So it's possible that he became The Valeyard during the Time War. His regenerations after that remember what he did but choose to not recognise him as The Doctor, but rather The Valeyard, but they are still the same person regardless.


Yeah, I guess we will see how this all plays out.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby waaaaghlord » Mon May 20, 2013 5:40 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU9Tr9ay3mk

Skip to 44 seconds. It's the mystery voice from The Pandorica Opens, scene where the TaRDiS gets hijacked and the crack appears on the console screen. I hadn't placed the voice until today but it looks like that 'introducing' in Name wasn't entirely accurate.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Shadowman » Mon May 20, 2013 8:46 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
waaaaghlord wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU9Tr9ay3mk

Skip to 44 seconds. It's the mystery voice from The Pandorica Opens, scene where the TaRDiS gets hijacked and the crack appears on the console screen. I hadn't placed the voice until today but it looks like that 'introducing' in Name wasn't entirely accurate.


Similar, to be sure, but not quite like John Hurt.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Burn » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:17 pm

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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Mkall » Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:52 pm

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That's a shame. He took some adjusting to but I came to enjoy him. I wonder who will replace him?
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Burn » Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:25 pm

So I was thinking who could make for a good replacement. And one name popped into my mind.

Rupert Grint, Ronald Weasley from Harry Potter, and ... a ginger.

The Doctor could finally get his wish of being a ginger.

Turns out as well, he's already one of the favourites.

(Though I do like the idea of Martin Freeman)
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Lorekeeper » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:58 am

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Grint was by far the weakest actor in the Harry Potter core cast. I could not see him carrying Doctor Who anywhere but the waste basket. He would be a worse disaster than Colin Baker (even though Baker2, pretty much the universal low point for the franchise, grew on me over time.) I would be intrigued by Watson, though.

Truly, I would like to see an older actor back in the role. Smith seemed to exchange gravitas for melodrama. I'd also like to see an actor back away from the mania a bit. A halfway decent actor with the right instincts will go far... so long as the writing improves. My love for Who is turning to unease with the push towards Michael Bay-style pandering.

If you could put restrictions or commands on a season/series of Doctor Who, what would you dictate?

I would love to see 15-episode seasons/series, that number including a Christmas Special and a 2-parter. I would encourage 1 "doctorless" episode per season, focusing on the tertiary cast or the "mortal world," to give us a sense of the reality the Doctor exits within and how he impacts it. I would restrict the appearance of Daleks, Cybermen, and the Master. I would revisit one alien race from old Who not yet used in new Who, without killing them off.
Companions would need special script scrutiny. They should have developed back-stories and development made available to series writers. (Clara seemed like she had multiple personalities and shallow development.) No more companion-Doctor romances for at least 3 years. No more Doctor romances at all for at least 3 years. He (she?) should be sexy, but not sexual.
The big thing I'd like to see is more Timelord development. I've always loved those demigods in awful hats. Even if it's mostly flashback, give me some campy glitter mantles and skullcaps. Make them villains, make them fascists, make them time-liches, but get them back.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby MagnusPrimal » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:41 pm

I really don't get the Colin Baker hate. Yeah, a lot of his stories were crap, but his performances were great. Loved his pompous and arrogant take on the character.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Burn » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:45 am

For me, when I originally watched Colin Baker, he'd ruined Dr Who.

Tom Baker was my Doctor, so obviously I was upset when he left. Peter Davidson did an okay job. But then Colin Baker comes blundering in. And not long after he's replaced with Sylvester McCoy who was much better than Colin Baker.

What I didn't know back then, and really only found out a few years ago, was the behind the scenes stuff. BBC wanted changes, new writers came on board, CB basically had to work with these changes.

So a lot of the "hate" probably comes from that, a lot of people didn't know what was going on behind the scenes and subsequently directed their dissatisfaction towards the public face at the time.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Cyber Bishop » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:22 am

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Yeah, Baker was my doctor as well. I did like Davidson and lost track when Colin took over. I did watch and enjoy Mccoy's doctor though.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby MagnusPrimal » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:42 pm

Heck, I like all the Doctors. Davison is my least favorite, and I don't even dislike him.
I've got most of Colin's episodes on DVD, but a lot of McCoy's are getting expensive to pick up. I hope they release a Special Edition of Battlefield, Ghost Light, and The Curse of Fenric sometime in the near future.
Still working on the rest of the collection as well. I have all of Troughton's that have been released, and I'm plugging away on the Tom Baker and Jon Pertwee years.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby prowl123 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:46 pm

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I just got into this show a few weeks ago and I have to say it's my favorite show ever. I won't lie, I bawled my eyes out when Rose left.

Although I haven't reached Matt Smith yet, I'd say that the 12th Doctor definitely needs to be ginger. Rupert Grint is a good choice but we don't really know much about whether or not he can play the befuddled role since all we've seen of him is Ron Weasley.

I would love to see Martin Freeman as the Doctor to be honest.
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Burn » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:13 am

New Doctor to be revealed in live special this Sunday

Interesting line by SM ...

"For the last of the Time Lords, the clock is striking twelve."
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Blast Cannon » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:49 pm

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Peter Cipaldi has just been announced as the new Doctor Who.

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Fans should recognise him as he has already appeared in Who before, in 'Fires of Pompeii'.

A fantastic choice, in my opinion. Very versatile actor and has pulled off some great roles on television in the past. He has the qualities that an actor needs in playing the Doctor: intensity, presence, mystery and that capacity to be extremely silly.. Plus he swears like a trooper.

Can't wait!
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Re: The Dr Who (and spin-offs) Thread

Postby Burn » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:37 pm

Good to see they're going with someone a little older too.

I also think he looks a little like Peter Cushing.

And damn Peter Davison still looks good. He needs to come back for a more extended role than that Time Crash story a few years back.
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