Autobot032 wrote:How can I possibly say that? Because it's been in the films. In the films, the Autobots and Decepticons had stopped fighting and were searching for the All Spark. For eons they've been adrift in space searching, not fighting.
Optimus and the Autobots had their tailpipes handed to them for the most part in the first film. Without Lennox, the Air Force and Sam, Optimus would've died at the hands of Megatron.
Megatron was frozen in time, he was frozen at a time when war was still fresh in his mind, and so was the blood on his hands.
To say that machine-based organisms just forget these things after not doing them for a while is a little far-fetched, wouldn't you agree? After millennia of war, no amount of time spent not fighting would ever be cause to forget. Even real world veterans remember how to fight and kill and are still haunted by vivid memories of the horrors of war. In the case of the first movie's finale, the human forces had them outgunned rather than outmatched, in fact the first film is far more accurate to how effective Decepticons can be even in small numbers which lost them that battle. Its more the subsequent films that "screwed the rules" so to speak.
Autobot032 wrote:You're thinking in G1 terms. This movieverse is not G1. The whole Soldier/Gladiator vs Civilians thing does not apply here. It was G1 only. These Decepticons won the war because they had much larger numbers. Plus they were led by a leader who was so evil he used The Fallen. Used him. What weak minded fool wouldn't follow him? Plus sheer numbers? Of course they won. You don't need brilliant strategy when you can just kill everything in your path due to numbers.
On Earth, there's billions of us. Plus the Autobots. Plus technology we made from Megatron. With all of that combined, no wonder the Autobots knew how to fight back against a small amount of Decepticons.
The movie failed to explain that large detail that is so prevalent in the Transformers franchise, if they don't explain these things I must draw from what I do know. Also, it didn't seem very much that the Fallen was being used, he seemed to be very in-charge in ROTF the way Megatron was cowed, obeying his command and his dispair at witnessing his death against Super Prime.
On another note, our billions don't count for much if less than 1% of us are actually soldiers. Human civilians may as well be slow, squishy cockroaches compared to a Cybertronian. Sam killed Megatron the first time only from the sheer luck that the Allspark was too much power for the Decepticon to handle, I wouldn't have called that instance a true victory for humans.
Autobot032 wrote:Not true. Megatron made Sentinel switch sides. Together they slaughtered almost an entire city full of people. That's more than a brief victory. That's a devastating record for the record books.
Megatron did nothing to influence Sentinel's decision, he made it on his own volition, not that his plan succeeded anyhow. "I have deigned to work with you... that our planet may survive! I will never work for
Autobot032 wrote:Wow. Condescending much? I know what Deus Ex Machina is. You're just pissed that I'm covering facts that you're unwilling to. I flew right in the face of your bias. There's no need to be rude. I wasn't rude to you or anyone else in this thread. And don't say things like "my friend". I don't know you. I'm not your friend. Don't condescend to me. I haven't done it to you.
Upon retrospect my words may have been hasty, only because I'm still livid about one of my favorite franchises getting kicked in the teeth in these adaptions and I get over-zealous about pointing out its obvious flaws. For that, I apologize. I'll try to be more civil about this debate.
On another note, I cover all facts as described by the films themselves. Any and all knowledge or lore on the "movieverse" outside of the films is irrelevant to the discussion as it is unnecessary for the moviegoer to have to read these things prior to seeing the film or afterward. If a movie cannot effectively explain its plot without the need for novel adaptations or comics then it has done a poor job telling a story.