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Wolfman Jake wrote:Broadside is a great jumping off point on this discussion. What "should" a Classics update of Broadside look like? Would you rather a faithful G1 homage making him a triple changer with jet and aircraft carrier alt modes? Or would you prefer instead a triple changer with update alt modes that make more sense in terms of scale, kind of like how the recent Generations Springer is an armored car instead of a "tank" like vehicle in addition to his helicopter mode? Perhaps Broadside could pick ONE alt mode this time and forgo the triple changer gimmick altogether, giving us a huge aircraft carrier alt mode, or a modest jet alt mode, instead of having to worry about scaling to different alt modes with one another?

Well Broadside should at least have the nautical aspect kept seeing as it's his name. As for scale, it'd probably work best at voyager, outside of Astrotrain I can't think of a deluxe triple changer that used it's budget as well as a voyager triplechanger (Gens springer and blitzwing). Honestly I wouldn't mind an out of scale boat and an out of scale plane/jet. Maybe make his altmodes something more manageable than an aircraft carrier and a tiny fighter jet. Maybe make it alike a smaller military vessel, compared to an Aircraft carrier, and a larger jet like a bomber or A-12 Blackbird. It'd still be out of scale but it wouldn't be as bad as oh a ship that's a couple of miles long, and a jet that's a few yards. Exaggeration.

Since the conversation became more about scale than the Takara Unite Warriors line, I moved the posts discussing scale to this thread for the debate to be continued uninterrupted by any new developments in the line.

Are there any fans here that have a good working knowledge of nautical vehicles, especially military ones? Maybe some kind of a small, one to five person submarine could scale reasonably well with a fighter jet? Does something like that exist? I'd suggest one of those troop transporters that carriers soldiers from a sea-bound base vehicle to land, but I don't think it would be an especially interesting looking alt mode, since its essentially a big floating box.

SCALE!! It's pretty amazing when it works.


Now of course it was pretty easy with pre-AoE Movie figures since A) the creative team cared about scale (Starscream being the only notable exception) and B) the characters got a bunch of figures in different size classes making it relatively easy to get something resembling a properly-scaled collection. Obviously not every series has those advantages... in fact I think Movieverse is rather unique there.

Outside of that, I try to keep some loose sense of vehicle scale in mind when looking at new figures (partially to limit my purchases), even if the scale is just between a small team.


And as weird as it might sound, I'd prefer to have wrong sized vehicles over mass-shifting... unless a character is specifically given size-changing abilities (which I'd love to see happen).

Wolfman Jake wrote:Broadside is a great jumping off point on this discussion. What "should" a Classics update of Broadside look like?

Me personally I'd like to see Broadside stay as a aircraft carrier and a jet, if just for the novelty of the thing. If any sacrifices are to be made, do it to the jet form as we already get so many of them and so few boats.
A lazy update would just ripoff the Helicarrier.

shajaki wrote:Theres really only one scale issue that actually bugs me:

Generation 1
A brick in three modes.
Broadside (Triple Changer, 1986)
Accessories: Plasma pulse gun, Vibro-axe, 2 missiles

Broadside is the most blatantly out-of-scale Transformer ever. He transforms into an aircraft carrier and a rather unconvincing, apparently aircraft-carrier-sized jet fighter. He carries a rifle and a (comparably) small axe as weapons in robot mode. Two non-firing missiles attach to his wings in jet mode.

"Broadside is a huge loser. He's the forgotten Autobot Triple Changer who turns into either a tiny aircraft carrier and a jet, or an impossibly large "jet" and an aircraft carrier. Broadside also happens to be terrified of heights. And gets seasick on the water.

His life must suuuuuuck.

Fortunately, as one of the Wreckers, Broadside is almost constantly shooting the slag out of Decepticons, which is probably a good outlet for any frustration."

In "The Headmasters", Broadside actually transformed into both a giant spaceborne carrier. Iirc, Rodimus was one of the passengers. Another episode also had Broadside transport some Autobots to Mars. My memory is a bit fuzzy but at least in the Japanese anime, they(Takara) followed his transform scale specification.

Just one answer............"suspension of belief" kimosabes!

It's just occurred to me that Broadside should logically dwarf the combiners. As an aircraft carrier that can hold hundreds of jets (similar to the Aerialbots), he should subsequently be enormous compared to Superion, like about as tall as the citybots were portrayed in the G1 cartoon. A much better flying mode for him would be, as someone else suggested, a SHIELD helicarrier, but even though Hasbro makes Marvel toys I don't think they're allowed to go there. Failing that, make him a headmaster, with the carrier and jet being separate pieces. The carrier would be the body and the jet would be the head. I think the jet would still be too big for 100% realistic scale but it would be better than a carrier-sized jet or a carrier shrinking into a jet. Also, now I want someone to customize one of those GI Joe carriers into a transforming Broadside.

That Bot wrote:It's just occurred to me that Broadside should logically dwarf the combiners. As an aircraft carrier that can hold hundreds of jets (similar to the Aerialbots), he should subsequently be enormous compared to Superion, like about as tall as the citybots were portrayed in the G1 cartoon. A much better flying mode for him would be, as someone else suggested, a SHIELD helicarrier, but even though Hasbro makes Marvel toys I don't think they're allowed to go there. Failing that, make him a headmaster, with the carrier and jet being separate pieces. The carrier would be the body and the jet would be the head. I think the jet would still be too big for 100% realistic scale but it would be better than a carrier-sized jet or a carrier shrinking into a jet. Also, now I want someone to customize one of those GI Joe carriers into a transforming Broadside.

He did do a "Shield Carrier" in Headmasters.

Hmm I wonder if making Broadside a leader or bigger class figure, from aircraft carrier to space battlecruiser? Might not look like a jet anymore, but still different enough? (And I'm not talking Battleship Yamato style cruiser, something more Starcraft like?)


On the topic of scale, I'm trying to stick to bot mode scale - ~deluxe for most part, except for those in fiction who are smaller or larger (i.e. minibots like Swerve and Tailgate, and larger guys like Optimus and Magnus.)

Mania King being mentioned earlier might not fit in fictional scale, i.e. just a little too short for a voyager, and too tall to stand with RTS Cyclonus, I still stick him with my other Classics-verse 'Cons as he is taller than most of my collection, and I'm OK with it.

A number of people have complained at how big Leader Megatron is, and too tall to stand against Optimus, but I'm OK with Megatron being taller and more menacing, and I kinda like the idea of a Tank being much bigger than a truck. Also the size difference of CW Prime over the Classics version kinda helps here a little.

I try not to delve into scale too much though, comparing the alt mode's of United Starscream vs Leader Jetfire is a little silly....

fenrir72 wrote:

That Bot wrote:It's just occurred to me that Broadside should logically dwarf the combiners. As an aircraft carrier that can hold hundreds of jets (similar to the Aerialbots), he should subsequently be enormous compared to Superion, like about as tall as the citybots were portrayed in the G1 cartoon. A much better flying mode for him would be, as someone else suggested, a SHIELD helicarrier, but even though Hasbro makes Marvel toys I don't think they're allowed to go there. Failing that, make him a headmaster, with the carrier and jet being separate pieces. The carrier would be the body and the jet would be the head. I think the jet would still be too big for 100% realistic scale but it would be better than a carrier-sized jet or a carrier shrinking into a jet. Also, now I want someone to customize one of those GI Joe carriers into a transforming Broadside.

He did do a "Shield Carrier" in Headmasters.

In Season #3 "Thief in the Night, wasn't that Broadside in carrier mode carrying the Aerialbots off the shore of Carbombya?

fenrir72 wrote:

That Bot wrote:It's just occurred to me that Broadside should logically dwarf the combiners. As an aircraft carrier that can hold hundreds of jets (similar to the Aerialbots), he should subsequently be enormous compared to Superion, like about as tall as the citybots were portrayed in the G1 cartoon. A much better flying mode for him would be, as someone else suggested, a SHIELD helicarrier, but even though Hasbro makes Marvel toys I don't think they're allowed to go there. Failing that, make him a headmaster, with the carrier and jet being separate pieces. The carrier would be the body and the jet would be the head. I think the jet would still be too big for 100% realistic scale but it would be better than a carrier-sized jet or a carrier shrinking into a jet. Also, now I want someone to customize one of those GI Joe carriers into a transforming Broadside.

He did do a "Shield Carrier" in Headmasters.

Didn't Broadside also carry the Aerialbots of the coast of Carbombya in "Thief in the Night"?

fenrir72 wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

That Bot wrote:It's just occurred to me that Broadside should logically dwarf the combiners. As an aircraft carrier that can hold hundreds of jets (similar to the Aerialbots), he should subsequently be enormous compared to Superion, like about as tall as the citybots were portrayed in the G1 cartoon. A much better flying mode for him would be, as someone else suggested, a SHIELD helicarrier, but even though Hasbro makes Marvel toys I don't think they're allowed to go there. Failing that, make him a headmaster, with the carrier and jet being separate pieces. The carrier would be the body and the jet would be the head. I think the jet would still be too big for 100% realistic scale but it would be better than a carrier-sized jet or a carrier shrinking into a jet. Also, now I want someone to customize one of those GI Joe carriers into a transforming Broadside.

He did do a "Shield Carrier" in Headmasters.

Didn't Broadside also carry the Aerialbots of the coast of Carbombya in "Thief in the Night"?

Logic has no meaning here

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

That Bot wrote:It's just occurred to me that Broadside should logically dwarf the combiners. As an aircraft carrier that can hold hundreds of jets (similar to the Aerialbots), he should subsequently be enormous compared to Superion, like about as tall as the citybots were portrayed in the G1 cartoon. A much better flying mode for him would be, as someone else suggested, a SHIELD helicarrier, but even though Hasbro makes Marvel toys I don't think they're allowed to go there. Failing that, make him a headmaster, with the carrier and jet being separate pieces. The carrier would be the body and the jet would be the head. I think the jet would still be too big for 100% realistic scale but it would be better than a carrier-sized jet or a carrier shrinking into a jet. Also, now I want someone to customize one of those GI Joe carriers into a transforming Broadside.

He did do a "Shield Carrier" in Headmasters.

Didn't Broadside also carry the Aerialbots of the coast of Carbombya in "Thief in the Night"?

Logic has no meaning here

Or suspended belief.

fenrir72 wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

That Bot wrote:It's just occurred to me that Broadside should logically dwarf the combiners. As an aircraft carrier that can hold hundreds of jets (similar to the Aerialbots), he should subsequently be enormous compared to Superion, like about as tall as the citybots were portrayed in the G1 cartoon. A much better flying mode for him would be, as someone else suggested, a SHIELD helicarrier, but even though Hasbro makes Marvel toys I don't think they're allowed to go there. Failing that, make him a headmaster, with the carrier and jet being separate pieces. The carrier would be the body and the jet would be the head. I think the jet would still be too big for 100% realistic scale but it would be better than a carrier-sized jet or a carrier shrinking into a jet. Also, now I want someone to customize one of those GI Joe carriers into a transforming Broadside.

He did do a "Shield Carrier" in Headmasters.

Didn't Broadside also carry the Aerialbots of the coast of Carbombya in "Thief in the Night"?

Logic has no meaning here

Or suspended belief.

I suspend my belief enough to have out of scale vehicles for relative scaled robits; thank you very much .

fenrir72 wrote:Just one answer............"suspension of belief" kimosabes!

It's suspension of disbelief. If you were to suspend your belief it would take you out of the setting and bring you back to poking holes in the fiction.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:Logic has no meaning here

As crazy as it is, there's some kind of consistency going on here, even if it's Legends Constructicons VS Leaders Broadside and UM.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

SW's SilverHammer wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

That Bot wrote:It's just occurred to me that Broadside should logically dwarf the combiners. As an aircraft carrier that can hold hundreds of jets (similar to the Aerialbots), he should subsequently be enormous compared to Superion, like about as tall as the citybots were portrayed in the G1 cartoon. A much better flying mode for him would be, as someone else suggested, a SHIELD helicarrier, but even though Hasbro makes Marvel toys I don't think they're allowed to go there. Failing that, make him a headmaster, with the carrier and jet being separate pieces. The carrier would be the body and the jet would be the head. I think the jet would still be too big for 100% realistic scale but it would be better than a carrier-sized jet or a carrier shrinking into a jet. Also, now I want someone to customize one of those GI Joe carriers into a transforming Broadside.

He did do a "Shield Carrier" in Headmasters.

Didn't Broadside also carry the Aerialbots of the coast of Carbombya in "Thief in the Night"?

Logic has no meaning here

Or suspended belief.

I suspend my belief enough to have out of scale vehicles for relative scaled robits; thank you very much .

Poke holes on scale but no one questions how and why the Transformers are able to configure their structure and still remain mobile? What powers the movement or enable it? Hydraulics? And how come TFs consume energon via the mouth in G1? Do they also have a digestive system? But where does the sound of their voice come from? Also have a voicebox, also in the mouth?..............too many real world applications...............hmmmmmmmm.

What about merging of 5 minds to form one? Questions qustions..........just like how many angels can sit on a pin's head.

Wolfman Jake wrote:Broadside is a great jumping off point on this discussion. What "should" a Classics update of Broadside look like? Would you rather a faithful G1 homage making him a triple changer with jet and aircraft carrier alt modes? Or would you prefer instead a triple changer with update alt modes that make more sense in terms of scale, kind of like how the recent Generations Springer is an armored car instead of a "tank" like vehicle in addition to his helicopter mode? Perhaps Broadside could pick ONE alt mode this time and forgo the triple changer gimmick altogether, giving us a huge aircraft carrier alt mode, or a modest jet alt mode, instead of having to worry about scaling to different alt modes with one another?

I don't know that a character like Broadside is popular enough to even warrant an update, but if they did, I'd be fine if they kept his jet mode and gave him some other sort of boat mode. Save the aircraft carrier for the theoretical titan class Tidal Wave.

Jet mode, and high speed two-man catamaran yacht mode, maybe?