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The main thing that make TF Prime stand out: The bad guys are allowed to win. And often.

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Re: The main thing that make TF Prime stand out: The bad guys are allowed to win. And often.

Postby Sabrblade » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:15 am

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TurboMMaster wrote:For the first time i heard about Cons in Aniamted wining anything. They are heavily outguned and outnumbered, they must hide for milennia and they until series finale can't be a real threat even for a single human City.
Nearly every Decepticon in that series was walking juggernaut who was too much for just one Autobot to take down. In the third episode alone, All five Autobots just barely took down Starscream by himself, with Optimus having to sacrifice his own life just to beat him.

TurboMMaster wrote:Ju have a memory problems, Autobots in first episode loses Cliffjumper,
Cliffjumper's death wasn't part of the main conflict of the episode, which was the Vehicons trying kill Arcee and Jack. His death was a plot device not the Cons main agenda of the episode.

TurboMMaster wrote:and they can't even injury 2 Vehicons, witch survived and retreated only because enter of the Bulkhead.
I did say they sent the Vehicons running. ;)

TurboMMaster wrote:2 new Decepticons come into Earth and they both survived.
Not a victory, but a shift in the status quo

TurboMMaster wrote:Also the succesfully steal Energon Harvester.
Which they lose after Bulkhead destroys it, thus making it a hollow victory if anything.

TurboMMaster wrote:Decepticons forced Airanchid to rejoin into their cause.
You call that a victory? Returning a two-faced deserter back into their ranks? She never wanted back in, and they weren't crying for her return either. It was just another status quo change.

TurboMMaster wrote:The weak part of this argument is... Starscream won a fight, he was in far better condition than Arcee at the end.
Starscream didn't really have a set goal of his own for this episode. His leaving was no win or loss for himself or anyone. He was not missed by the Cons nor did he miss them. It was another neutral shift.

TurboMMaster wrote:Also Megatron beaten Optimus so far three time (in Darkness, Rising, seazon 1 finale and in Hard Knocks) While Optimus so far was superior only in Orion Pax part 3.
You have to keep in mind what the true objective of each episode's conflict is. Megatron may have bested Optimus in the space bridge fight, but his goal was to bring the Terrorcon army through the portal to Earth, which was foiled and so he lost. It's the main objectives that matter the most.

TurboMMaster wrote:And Decepticons have a huge tactical adventage, they have a Warship, an entire army of soldiers, they can summon new tropes more easily, and they always have enough of energon. Autobots must hide on tiny base using a human technology based hardware, must fight for each scrap of energon and until Prime improve a Ground Bridge into Space Brigde, seems to be separated from other of their kind.
Nevertheless, despite their consistent tactical disadvantage, the Autobots have had more wins than losses for each episode's main conflict. The Decepticons main have more resources, but the Autobots tend to have better strategies, teamwork, and wit, which help in plenty of their victories.
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Re: The main thing that make TF Prime stand out: The bad guys are allowed to win. And often.

Postby TurboMMaster » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:51 am

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Nearly every Decepticon in that series was walking juggernaut who was too much for just one Autobot to take down. In the third episode alone, All five Autobots just barely took down Starscream by himself, with Optimus having to sacrifice his own life just to beat him.
Actually, Bulkhead at his best was able to defat both Lugnut and Shockwave, so he is strong enough. Optimus beats Megatron in their final fight(with is far more logical than for example final fight in Cybertron and DotM). And most of all- Decepticons are a small group of outcasts hiding from justie, while Autobots are a big organization controling a entire Planet. Also Autobots have a lot of stuff such like a Space Bridge technologu, Ultra Magnus Hammmer, or acces to heavy bitters- such like Omega Supreme.
Sabrblade wrote:Cliffjumper's death wasn't part of the main conflict of the episode, which was the Vehicons trying kill Arcee and Jack. His death was a plot device not the Cons main agenda of the episode.
You think that meanigless skirmish is more important than a lost of a teammate? Autobots lost this episode at the beggining, mostly because they failed in protect one of them, anything what happened later in this episode simply a effect of this disaster.

Sabrblade wrote:Nevertheless, despite their consistent tactical disadvantage, the Autobots have had more wins than losses for each episode's main conflict. The Decepticons main have more resources, but the Autobots tend to have better strategies, teamwork, and wit, which help in plenty of their victories.
However, Autobots still aren't really able to beacome a threat at least until they gained almost all Iacon relics. And also, most of the time Autobots victories are simply return to status quo, without makin their situation any better. Decepticons can't won too ofen, mostly because it they did, something is gona change almost for sure.
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Re: The main thing that make TF Prime stand out: The bad guys are allowed to win. And often.

Postby PrymeStriker » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:48 am

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TurboMMaster wrote:You think that meanigless skirmish is more important than a lost of a teammate? Autobots lost this episode at the beggining, mostly because they failed in protect one of them, anything what happened later in this episode simply a effect of this disaster.


You're not reading his post, are you?

Cliffjumper's death wasn't the main "problem" of the episode. It happened in the first two to five minutes, the Autobots cry, and that was it.

The rest of the episode was Starscream wanting to capture and kill Arcee as well, so he sent out two twin Vehicons to grab her. Arcee got back up and sent the Vehicons running. The Autobots won...but ended up with three humans involved. This would transition into the next episode.

However, Autobots still aren't really able to beacome a threat at least until they gained almost all Iacon relics.


You do know that the Omega Keys were the last of the Iacon relics, right? The Autobots have the Forge, Star Saber, Phase Shifter, Apex Armor, and (for now) all four Omega Keys. They also have the Immobilizer and polarity gauntlet, and they had the Spark Extractor.

The Decepticons have the Resonance Blaster and a forged Dark Star Saber. That's it.

We have the season finale ahead in which the Decepticons just might get the four keys back. Regardless, the Autobots have the most relics as of Episode 51.
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Re: The main thing that make TF Prime stand out: The bad guys are allowed to win. And often.

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:41 am

Motto: "FOR THE EARTH!!!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
TurboMMaster wrote:Actually, Bulkhead at his best was able to defat both Lugnut and Shockwave, so he is strong enough. Optimus beats Megatron in their final fight(with is far more logical than for example final fight in Cybertron and DotM).
And those wins happened later in the series after the Autobots had already fought these guys before and had gotten stronger since. But every time they fought a Cybertron-born Decepticon the first time, the Autobots could barely stand up to them.

TurboMMaster wrote:And most of all- Decepticons are a small group of outcasts hiding from justie, while Autobots are a big organization controling a entire Planet.
We see a whole lot of Decepticons on New Kaon during Megatron's funeral (when he was presumed dead in season 1). Not to mention the might that is Team Chaar who mopped the floor with Team Athenia. Though the Autobots may outnumber them, the Animated Decepticons were anything but incapable.

TurboMMaster wrote:Also Autobots have a lot of stuff such like a Space Bridge technologu,
Which the Earth-bound ones had to spend an entire season building themselves, since the Cybertron-based ones were pretty much useless to them for the most part, what with them being on Earth instead of Cybertron and all.

TurboMMaster wrote:Ultra Magnus Hammmer,
Which didn't get any real good use for the Earht Autobots until the season 3 finale.

TurboMMaster wrote:or acces to heavy bitters- such like Omega Supreme.
Who was offline for most of seasons 1-2, and lost to Megatron for most of season 3.

TurboMMaster wrote:You think that meanigless skirmish is more important than a lost of a teammate?
The episode itself sure seems to think so, since it spent a good majority of itself focusing on Arcee trying to escape the Vehicons, while only spending a mere five minutes on Cliffjumper's death. They killed off Cliffjumper before we even got a chance to care about him.

TurboMMaster wrote:Autobots lost this episode at the beggining, mostly because they failed in protect one of them, anything what happened later in this episode simply a effect of this disaster.
In that case, one might as well just shut off the episode right after Cliff dies, since , according to you, the rest of the whole episode is entirely pointless. :roll:

TurboMMaster wrote:However, Autobots still aren't really able to beacome a threat at least until they gained almost all Iacon relics. And also, most of the time Autobots victories are simply return to status quo, without makin their situation any better. Decepticons can't won too ofen, mostly because it they did, something is gona change almost for sure.
And that's the fault of the writers, not the characters themselves.

Well, I guess you could blame the Decepticons for their army consisting almost entirely of fragile Stormtroopers that couldn't win a battle to save their lives after "Darkness Rising".


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PrymeStriker wrote:You're not reading his post, are you?

Cliffjumper's death wasn't the main "problem" of the episode. It happened in the first two to five minutes, the Autobots cry, and that was it.

The rest of the episode was Starscream wanting to capture and kill Arcee as well, so he sent out two twin Vehicons to grab her. Arcee got back up and sent the Vehicons running. The Autobots won...but ended up with three humans involved. This would transition into the next episode.
Yes, thank you.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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