Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

shamone wrote:im sorry but this idealism is admirable but very much naive

hu7manity like all creatures is about survival and perpetuation of the species.

have we evolved that much in 100 years or so. ask the people in rwanda, srebrenica, chechnya. People killed for little or no reason.

look at india where they still have castes

Look at the war in Iraq, a war for oil, where loss of human life is seen as acceptable for the gains of prosperity

In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us

Okay so...you'd be okay with taking another species as slaves to rebuild your house, whether they liked it or not?

Shadowman wrote:

shamone wrote:im sorry but this idealism is admirable but very much naive

hu7manity like all creatures is about survival and perpetuation of the species.

have we evolved that much in 100 years or so. ask the people in rwanda, srebrenica, chechnya. People killed for little or no reason.

look at india where they still have castes

Look at the war in Iraq, a war for oil, where loss of human life is seen as acceptable for the gains of prosperity

In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us

Okay so...you'd be okay with taking another species as slaves to rebuild your house, whether they liked it or not?

It's not a matter if Shamone is okay with it, he's just pointing out that's in plausible for another spieces to think that way.

The human/animal comparison is a very good one. Do you hunt for your food or do you buy it in a store?

Shadowman wrote:

shamone wrote:im sorry but this idealism is admirable but very much naive

hu7manity like all creatures is about survival and perpetuation of the species.

have we evolved that much in 100 years or so. ask the people in rwanda, srebrenica, chechnya. People killed for little or no reason.

look at india where they still have castes

Look at the war in Iraq, a war for oil, where loss of human life is seen as acceptable for the gains of prosperity

In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us

Okay so...you'd be okay with taking another species as slaves to rebuild your house, whether they liked it or not?

are you ok with people dying in iraq for your fuel

or animals being imprisoned for your food and clothign (assuming you arent vegan of course)

shamone wrote: In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us

Thats a fair aurgument. At times of desperation an possible extinction, one can be driven to do things that one wouldn't normally do. But at the same time, one can't say for sure that we would take that route. we have grown tremeduously as people, as human beings in the past 100 years. The cival rights movment is good example of this. Are we perfect as a whole? No. And we never will be. But we have moved forward, and history is suggesting that we are (for the most part) continuing to move forward.

RhA wrote: It's not a matter if Shamone is okay with it, he's just pointing out that's in plausible for another spieces to think that way.

The human/animal comparison is a very good one. Do you hunt for your food or do you buy it in a store?

I don't think Shadowman is saying that it isn't plausible, just that StarscreamGaGa was suggesting that if presented with same situation as the cons, that we would undoubtfully destroy the lesser speices and/or use them as slave labor to rebuild for our way of life isn't accurate if you solely basing this ussuption on history alone. Were taught history so we can learn from our mistakes and not duplicate them.

As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us

Thats a fair aurgument. At times of desperation an possible extinction, one can be driven to do things that one wouldn't normally do. But at the same time, one can't say for sure that we would take that route. we have grown tremeduously as people, as human beings in the past 100 years. The cival rights movment is good example of this. Are we perfect as a whole? No. And we never will be. But we have moved forward, and history is suggesting that we are (for the most part) continuing to move forward.

RhA wrote: It's not a matter if Shamone is okay with it, he's just pointing out that's in plausible for another spieces to think that way.

The human/animal comparison is a very good one. Do you hunt for your food or do you buy it in a store?

I don't think Shadowman is saying that it isn't plausible, just that StarscreamGaGa was suggesting that if presented with same situation as the cons, that we would undoubtfully destroy the lesser speices and/or use them as slave labor to rebuild for our way of life isn't accurate if you solely basing this ussuption on history alone. Were taught history so we can learn from our mistakes and not duplicate them.

As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

civil rights movement maybe

but look at what we do through out the world. Look at how we treat species lesser than us.

and this at a time when their death and destruction isnt necessary for our survival. Imagine how we would treat them if it was a fight for survival

there is no difference in us and other animals thats my point exactly. They kill for their survival, we do the same now even when we dont need to kill to survive. And how do we get this food, by imprisoning animals in a form of slavery, and then breeding them into a live of slavery.

Im no vegan or anything, just using the animal thing as a comparison to how cons can view humanity

shamone wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

shamone wrote: In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us

Thats a fair aurgument. At times of desperation an possible extinction, one can be driven to do things that one wouldn't normally do. But at the same time, one can't say for sure that we would take that route. we have grown tremeduously as people, as human beings in the past 100 years. The cival rights movment is good example of this. Are we perfect as a whole? No. And we never will be. But we have moved forward, and history is suggesting that we are (for the most part) continuing to move forward.

RhA wrote: It's not a matter if Shamone is okay with it, he's just pointing out that's in plausible for another spieces to think that way.

The human/animal comparison is a very good one. Do you hunt for your food or do you buy it in a store?

I don't think Shadowman is saying that it isn't plausible, just that StarscreamGaGa was suggesting that if presented with same situation as the cons, that we would undoubtfully destroy the lesser speices and/or use them as slave labor to rebuild for our way of life isn't accurate if you solely basing this ussuption on history alone. Were taught history so we can learn from our mistakes and not duplicate them.

As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

civil rights movement maybe

but look at what we do through out the world. Look at how we treat species lesser than us.

and this at a time when their death and destruction isnt necessary for our survival. Imagine how we would treat them if it was a fight for survival

there is no difference in us and other animals thats my point exactly. They kill for their survival, we do the same now even when we dont need to kill to survive. And how do we get this food, by imprisoning animals in a form of slavery, and then breeding them into a live of slavery.

Im no vegan or anything, just using the animal thing as a comparison to how cons can view humanity

Except animals aren't intelligent species, at least not the ones we eat. Sentient, sure, sapient, no.

5150 Cruiser wrote:As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

The Decepticons needed the humans for survival. Is that any different?

I'm not a Decepticon sympathizer, I'm just throwing it out there.

Starscream GaGa wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

The Decepticons needed the humans for survival. Is that any different?

I'm not a Decepticon sympathizer, I'm just throwing it out there.

Actually, yes. They didn't need the humans for survival. They had a million other ways to strip mine our planet so they could rebuild theirs that didn't involve slave labor and would have been a million times more effective. Shockwave's worm-thing, for instance.

Shadowman wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

The Decepticons needed the humans for survival. Is that any different?

I'm not a Decepticon sympathizer, I'm just throwing it out there.

Actually, yes. They didn't need the humans for survival. They had a million other ways to strip mine our planet so they could rebuild theirs that didn't involve slave labor and would have been a million times more effective. Shockwave's worm-thing, for instance.

And the humans in no way would have resisted.

Starscream GaGa wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

The Decepticons needed the humans for survival. Is that any different?

I'm not a Decepticon sympathizer, I'm just throwing it out there.

Actually, yes. They didn't need the humans for survival. They had a million other ways to strip mine our planet so they could rebuild theirs that didn't involve slave labor and would have been a million times more effective. Shockwave's worm-thing, for instance.

And the humans in no way would have resisted.

They were resisting during the invasion of Chicago. Tell me how well it was going until the Autobots showed up?