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The morals of the transformers movies.

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Transformers 3 is scheduled to be released on July 1st, 2011. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Shadowman » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:08 am

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shamone wrote:im sorry but this idealism is admirable but very much naive

hu7manity like all creatures is about survival and perpetuation of the species.

have we evolved that much in 100 years or so. ask the people in rwanda, srebrenica, chechnya. People killed for little or no reason.

look at india where they still have castes

Look at the war in Iraq, a war for oil, where loss of human life is seen as acceptable for the gains of prosperity

In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us


Okay so...you'd be okay with taking another species as slaves to rebuild your house, whether they liked it or not?
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby RhA » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:15 am

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Shadowman wrote:
shamone wrote:im sorry but this idealism is admirable but very much naive

hu7manity like all creatures is about survival and perpetuation of the species.

have we evolved that much in 100 years or so. ask the people in rwanda, srebrenica, chechnya. People killed for little or no reason.

look at india where they still have castes

Look at the war in Iraq, a war for oil, where loss of human life is seen as acceptable for the gains of prosperity

In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us


Okay so...you'd be okay with taking another species as slaves to rebuild your house, whether they liked it or not?


It's not a matter if Shamone is okay with it, he's just pointing out that's in plausible for another spieces to think that way.

The human/animal comparison is a very good one. Do you hunt for your food or do you buy it in a store?
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby shamone » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:19 am

Shadowman wrote:
shamone wrote:im sorry but this idealism is admirable but very much naive

hu7manity like all creatures is about survival and perpetuation of the species.

have we evolved that much in 100 years or so. ask the people in rwanda, srebrenica, chechnya. People killed for little or no reason.

look at india where they still have castes

Look at the war in Iraq, a war for oil, where loss of human life is seen as acceptable for the gains of prosperity

In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us


Okay so...you'd be okay with taking another species as slaves to rebuild your house, whether they liked it or not?


are you ok with people dying in iraq for your fuel

or animals being imprisoned for your food and clothign (assuming you arent vegan of course)
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:14 pm

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shamone wrote: In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us


Thats a fair aurgument. At times of desperation an possible extinction, one can be driven to do things that one wouldn't normally do. But at the same time, one can't say for sure that we would take that route. we have grown tremeduously as people, as human beings in the past 100 years. The cival rights movment is good example of this. Are we perfect as a whole? No. And we never will be. But we have moved forward, and history is suggesting that we are (for the most part) continuing to move forward.

RhA wrote: It's not a matter if Shamone is okay with it, he's just pointing out that's in plausible for another spieces to think that way.

The human/animal comparison is a very good one. Do you hunt for your food or do you buy it in a store?


I don't think Shadowman is saying that it isn't plausible, just that StarscreamGaGa was suggesting that if presented with same situation as the cons, that we would undoubtfully destroy the lesser speices and/or use them as slave labor to rebuild for our way of life isn't accurate if you solely basing this ussuption on history alone. Were taught history so we can learn from our mistakes and not duplicate them.

As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby shamone » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:19 pm

5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote: In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us


Thats a fair aurgument. At times of desperation an possible extinction, one can be driven to do things that one wouldn't normally do. But at the same time, one can't say for sure that we would take that route. we have grown tremeduously as people, as human beings in the past 100 years. The cival rights movment is good example of this. Are we perfect as a whole? No. And we never will be. But we have moved forward, and history is suggesting that we are (for the most part) continuing to move forward.

RhA wrote: It's not a matter if Shamone is okay with it, he's just pointing out that's in plausible for another spieces to think that way.

The human/animal comparison is a very good one. Do you hunt for your food or do you buy it in a store?


I don't think Shadowman is saying that it isn't plausible, just that StarscreamGaGa was suggesting that if presented with same situation as the cons, that we would undoubtfully destroy the lesser speices and/or use them as slave labor to rebuild for our way of life isn't accurate if you solely basing this ussuption on history alone. Were taught history so we can learn from our mistakes and not duplicate them.

As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?


civil rights movement maybe

but look at what we do through out the world. Look at how we treat species lesser than us.

and this at a time when their death and destruction isnt necessary for our survival. Imagine how we would treat them if it was a fight for survival

there is no difference in us and other animals thats my point exactly. They kill for their survival, we do the same now even when we dont need to kill to survive. And how do we get this food, by imprisoning animals in a form of slavery, and then breeding them into a live of slavery.

Im no vegan or anything, just using the animal thing as a comparison to how cons can view humanity
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Shadowman » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:27 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
shamone wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote: In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us


Thats a fair aurgument. At times of desperation an possible extinction, one can be driven to do things that one wouldn't normally do. But at the same time, one can't say for sure that we would take that route. we have grown tremeduously as people, as human beings in the past 100 years. The cival rights movment is good example of this. Are we perfect as a whole? No. And we never will be. But we have moved forward, and history is suggesting that we are (for the most part) continuing to move forward.

RhA wrote: It's not a matter if Shamone is okay with it, he's just pointing out that's in plausible for another spieces to think that way.

The human/animal comparison is a very good one. Do you hunt for your food or do you buy it in a store?


I don't think Shadowman is saying that it isn't plausible, just that StarscreamGaGa was suggesting that if presented with same situation as the cons, that we would undoubtfully destroy the lesser speices and/or use them as slave labor to rebuild for our way of life isn't accurate if you solely basing this ussuption on history alone. Were taught history so we can learn from our mistakes and not duplicate them.

As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?


civil rights movement maybe

but look at what we do through out the world. Look at how we treat species lesser than us.

and this at a time when their death and destruction isnt necessary for our survival. Imagine how we would treat them if it was a fight for survival

there is no difference in us and other animals thats my point exactly. They kill for their survival, we do the same now even when we dont need to kill to survive. And how do we get this food, by imprisoning animals in a form of slavery, and then breeding them into a live of slavery.

Im no vegan or anything, just using the animal thing as a comparison to how cons can view humanity


Except animals aren't intelligent species, at least not the ones we eat. Sentient, sure, sapient, no.
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Starscream GaGa » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:13 am

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5150 Cruiser wrote:As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

The Decepticons needed the humans for survival. Is that any different?

I'm not a Decepticon sympathizer, I'm just throwing it out there.
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Shadowman » Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:34 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Starscream GaGa wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

The Decepticons needed the humans for survival. Is that any different?

I'm not a Decepticon sympathizer, I'm just throwing it out there.


Actually, yes. They didn't need the humans for survival. They had a million other ways to strip mine our planet so they could rebuild theirs that didn't involve slave labor and would have been a million times more effective. Shockwave's worm-thing, for instance.
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Starscream GaGa » Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:12 am

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Shadowman wrote:
Starscream GaGa wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

The Decepticons needed the humans for survival. Is that any different?

I'm not a Decepticon sympathizer, I'm just throwing it out there.


Actually, yes. They didn't need the humans for survival. They had a million other ways to strip mine our planet so they could rebuild theirs that didn't involve slave labor and would have been a million times more effective. Shockwave's worm-thing, for instance.

And the humans in no way would have resisted.
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Shadowman » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:46 am

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
Starscream GaGa wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
Starscream GaGa wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

The Decepticons needed the humans for survival. Is that any different?

I'm not a Decepticon sympathizer, I'm just throwing it out there.


Actually, yes. They didn't need the humans for survival. They had a million other ways to strip mine our planet so they could rebuild theirs that didn't involve slave labor and would have been a million times more effective. Shockwave's worm-thing, for instance.

And the humans in no way would have resisted.


They were resisting during the invasion of Chicago. Tell me how well it was going until the Autobots showed up?
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby shamone » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:07 pm

Shadowman wrote:
shamone wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote: In the world we currently live, I dont think we can assume that if our time was coming to an end and the only way we could survive is the subjegation of a lesser species we would not tkae that option.

Look at animals for breeding, they are practically slaves, they have no choice in the matter and they are seen as lesser beings by many. Thats how the cons may view us


Thats a fair aurgument. At times of desperation an possible extinction, one can be driven to do things that one wouldn't normally do. But at the same time, one can't say for sure that we would take that route. we have grown tremeduously as people, as human beings in the past 100 years. The cival rights movment is good example of this. Are we perfect as a whole? No. And we never will be. But we have moved forward, and history is suggesting that we are (for the most part) continuing to move forward.

RhA wrote: It's not a matter if Shamone is okay with it, he's just pointing out that's in plausible for another spieces to think that way.

The human/animal comparison is a very good one. Do you hunt for your food or do you buy it in a store?


I don't think Shadowman is saying that it isn't plausible, just that StarscreamGaGa was suggesting that if presented with same situation as the cons, that we would undoubtfully destroy the lesser speices and/or use them as slave labor to rebuild for our way of life isn't accurate if you solely basing this ussuption on history alone. Were taught history so we can learn from our mistakes and not duplicate them.

As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?


civil rights movement maybe

but look at what we do through out the world. Look at how we treat species lesser than us.

and this at a time when their death and destruction isnt necessary for our survival. Imagine how we would treat them if it was a fight for survival

there is no difference in us and other animals thats my point exactly. They kill for their survival, we do the same now even when we dont need to kill to survive. And how do we get this food, by imprisoning animals in a form of slavery, and then breeding them into a live of slavery.

Im no vegan or anything, just using the animal thing as a comparison to how cons can view humanity


Except animals aren't intelligent species, at least not the ones we eat. Sentient, sure, sapient, no.


this is exactly my point. you have decided what species should be subjagated and enslaved because of your interpretation of their sapience.

Now the bots themselves call us primitive and violent, so how would the cons see us.

You are looking at it from a humanist perspective where we are the dominant species.

And in that role we have seen this world and taken and abused it to fit our means
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Shadowman » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:36 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
shamone wrote:Except animals aren't intelligent species, at least not the ones we eat. Sentient, sure, sapient, no.


this is exactly my point. you have decided what species should be subjagated and enslaved because of your interpretation of their sapience.

They aren't sapient. It's not interpretation, they just aren't. There's no two ways about this.
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Doctor McGrath » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:10 am

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Shadowman wrote:
shamone wrote:Except animals aren't intelligent species, at least not the ones we eat. Sentient, sure, sapient, no.


this is exactly my point. you have decided what species should be subjagated and enslaved because of your interpretation of their sapience.

They aren't sapient. It's not interpretation, they just aren't. There's no two ways about this.


I've eaten pretty smart animals before. Just sayin'..
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:32 am

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Starscream GaGa wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

The Decepticons needed the humans for survival. Is that any different?

I'm not a Decepticon sympathizer, I'm just throwing it out there.


Yes, it is. The difference is we inhabit the same planet that we hunt food on to survive. We need to eat. Thats a fact.
The decepticons destroyed their own planet due to there greed for power. They then proceed to another planet for resources to rebuild. They did not need our slave labor. They had been living on our planet in disguise for years as so did the Autobots. The Autbots found a way to co-exshist with humans that did not envolve us as slaves. There is no reason the decepticons could not do the same.
one would think that if a certain way of life (aka the decepticons greed for power and the resulting war) destroyed your home planet, that maybe you should be rethinking about your cause. Its does no good to rebuild if your doomed to just repeat your mistakes.
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby shamone » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:07 pm

Shadowman wrote:
shamone wrote:Except animals aren't intelligent species, at least not the ones we eat. Sentient, sure, sapient, no.


this is exactly my point. you have decided what species should be subjagated and enslaved because of your interpretation of their sapience.

They aren't sapient. It's not interpretation, they just aren't. There's no two ways about this.


by the standards that humanity has established.

we have decided they are below us and not worthy of freedom.

the decepticons have made the same decision about us
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby shamone » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:11 pm

5150 Cruiser wrote:
Starscream GaGa wrote:
5150 Cruiser wrote:As far as the food aurgument, i don't believe thats fair. If the purpose is hunting for food and clothing, then thats an aurgument of survial. If were seen as being put down for this, then whats the difference between us hunting them for food and animals hunting other animals for food?

The Decepticons needed the humans for survival. Is that any different?

I'm not a Decepticon sympathizer, I'm just throwing it out there.


Yes, it is. The difference is we inhabit the same planet that we hunt food on to survive. We need to eat. Thats a fact.
The decepticons destroyed their own planet due to there greed for power. They then proceed to another planet for resources to rebuild. They did not need our slave labor. They had been living on our planet in disguise for years as so did the Autobots. The Autbots found a way to co-exshist with humans that did not envolve us as slaves. There is no reason the decepticons could not do the same.
one would think that if a certain way of life (aka the decepticons greed for power and the resulting war) destroyed your home planet, that maybe you should be rethinking about your cause. Its does no good to rebuild if your doomed to just repeat your mistakes.

do we meed t eat meat

have we not been destroying our planet, look at the climate, look at the ice caps, look at the rain foresr
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Shadowman » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:56 pm

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shamone wrote:by the standards that humanity has established.


Well if any other species would like to add in their thoughts, I'd be happy to hear it.

shamone wrote:we have decided they are below us and not worthy of freedom.


Of course we did! And we earned that right, too! We didn't just drop in, decide we were best and take over. We started as a bunch of monkeys and fought and clawed and earned our place as the dominate species.

shamone wrote:do we meed t eat meat


Sure. But then if you want to go the whole "Eating meat is wrong" stock argument, you're going to have to apply that to every species. In which sense, Lion's are jerks. And Dolphins are thrill-killing serial rapists. (Look it up, seriously)

shamone wrote:have we not been destroying our planet, look at the climate, look at the ice caps, look at the rain foresr


Ah, this old stock argument. Every time someone pulls it out, they conveniently forget how we're desperately trying to undo the damage we did, once we realized how serious it was.
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:19 pm

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shamone wrote: do we meed t eat meat


Do animals need to eat meet? Like Shadow man said, would you consider Lions, Tigers and Bears (Oh My!! :P ) jerks in the same sence?

shamone wrote:have we not been destroying our planet, look at the climate, look at the ice caps, look at the rain foresr


1.- We have realised our mistakes and are working to correct them (Please go back to my point about history)

2.- we are not trying to find a sub par planet and use there population as slave labor.
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby shamone » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:02 am

Shadowman wrote:
shamone wrote:by the standards that humanity has established.


Well if any other species would like to add in their thoughts, I'd be happy to hear it.

shamone wrote:we have decided they are below us and not worthy of freedom.


Of course we did! And we earned that right, too! We didn't just drop in, decide we were best and take over. We started as a bunch of monkeys and fought and clawed and earned our place as the dominate species.

shamone wrote:do we meed t eat meat


Sure. But then if you want to go the whole "Eating meat is wrong" stock argument, you're going to have to apply that to every species. In which sense, Lion's are jerks. And Dolphins are thrill-killing serial rapists. (Look it up, seriously)

shamone wrote:have we not been destroying our planet, look at the climate, look at the ice caps, look at the rain foresr


Ah, this old stock argument. Every time someone pulls it out, they conveniently forget how we're desperately trying to undo the damage we did, once we realized how serious it was.


you miss the point there. Of course they cant add to it, they are "lesser" species than us. But should we condemn them to slavery, butchery and pain because they are lesser. Because they have not yet developed the ability to express.

so the cons have developed and fought to be the new dominant species. do they have the same right

i never said eating meat was the problem as such but they way we mass farm it, enslaving animals doing it. animals for the most part kill when they have to eat, they dont farm the animals or enslave them

the stock argument is the factual argument. Cons are trying to undo the damage they did
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby shamone » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:06 am

5150 Cruiser wrote:
shamone wrote: do we meed t eat meat


Do animals need to eat meet? Like Shadow man said, would you consider Lions, Tigers and Bears (Oh My!! :P ) jerks in the same sence?

shamone wrote:have we not been destroying our planet, look at the climate, look at the ice caps, look at the rain foresr


1.- We have realised our mistakes and are working to correct them (Please go back to my point about history)

2.- we are not trying to find a sub par planet and use there population as slave labor.


do animals enslave other animals. And some animals can only eat meat, they have no choice, due to evolution. and the ecological system needs carnivores and omnivores, underwise the balance is maladjusted.

you claim we have learnt by our history. check oil and other fossil fuel consumption and tell me what we have learnt. Look at the drilling in Alaska.

For years there have been studies to find a suitable planet for relocation. A lot of the NASA missions were based around this. Remember plans for a mars base. This is not just for science, but due to the damage we have caused. Why has nbot been continued, cost and infeasibility.

Our first steo was not to amend our behavior but find an external solution
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Marcdachamp » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:38 am

SlyTF1 wrote:The first movie's moral was that you can't expect a victory without sacrifice. Even though the movie never really went out of it's way to show you that.

ROTF had kind of a moral that nothing can stop you from fulfilling your destiny (even death). Even if you do die, it was still your destiny to do so and nothing can stop it.

And DOTM had one of "How far is too far?" It showed both humans and Cybertronians taking drastic measures to save their worlds from extinction. It was really a reflection of the two civilizations.

I really think these movies are deep to an extent.


I think the first film is very deep and has a really nice center. While it's hip to rag on the movies as far as plot goes, there's something... kind of magical about it, for lack of a better word. There's a child like innocence to the flick. It feels like ET or Raiders of the Lost Ark.

That goes completely off the tracks with the second film, but I think the third helped to relaign things quite a bit. It's quite a bit darker, but that's okay. It makes sense, given the Decepticons intentions.

I'd like to see the next film tone down the darkness a little and get back to the wonder, though. Something closer to the first film.
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby SlyTF1 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:43 am

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Marcdachamp wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:The first movie's moral was that you can't expect a victory without sacrifice. Even though the movie never really went out of it's way to show you that.

ROTF had kind of a moral that nothing can stop you from fulfilling your destiny (even death). Even if you do die, it was still your destiny to do so and nothing can stop it.

And DOTM had one of "How far is too far?" It showed both humans and Cybertronians taking drastic measures to save their worlds from extinction. It was really a reflection of the two civilizations.

I really think these movies are deep to an extent.


I think the first film is very deep and has a really nice center. While it's hip to rag on the movies as far as plot goes, there's something... kind of magical about it, for lack of a better word. There's a child like innocence to the flick. It feels like ET or Raiders of the Lost Ark.


Maybe that's why I don't like it much. Too much innocence.
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Shadowman » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:49 am

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shamone wrote:you miss the point there. Of course they cant add to it, they are "lesser" species than us. But should we condemn them to slavery, butchery and pain because they are lesser. Because they have not yet developed the ability to express.


We didn't either. We earned our right to rule this planet.

shamone wrote:so the cons have developed and fought to be the new dominant species. do they have the same right


No, they have their own planet. But they decided they wanted ours so they came to trash that to make their own planet nicer.

shamone wrote:i never said eating meat was the problem as such but they way we mass farm it, enslaving animals doing it. animals for the most part kill when they have to eat, they dont farm the animals or enslave them


And yet starvation is still a serious problem. Funny that. Likewise, look at the deer. We actually have to hunt and kill them each year; it's been proven that they don't know when to quit, and if we don't hunt them they'll overpopulate and end up starving themselves to death.

shamone wrote:the stock argument is the factual argument. Cons are trying to undo the damage they did


No, it's just the one that keeps getting parroted while ignoring new facts. The cons are trying to fix Cybertron by destroying Earth. We're trying to fix Earth without even going to other planets.

shamone wrote:you claim we have learnt by our history. check oil and other fossil fuel consumption and tell me what we have learnt. Look at the drilling in Alaska.


That fuel emissions are currently a necessary evil while we are desperately looking for alternative fuel sources.

shamone wrote:For years there have been studies to find a suitable planet for relocation. A lot of the NASA missions were based around this. Remember plans for a mars base. This is not just for science, but due to the damage we have caused. Why has nbot been continued, cost and infeasibility.


Except there's no other usable planet that we can actually travel to. Mars is a dead rock, we've known that for years.

shamone wrote:Our first steo was not to amend our behavior but find an external solution


Okay, so instead of amending out behavior regarding the treatment of our planet, we instead went looking for a solution...which, when applied, would amend our behavior regarding the treatment of our planet.

You could make a Vulcan's head explode with that kind of logic, you know that?
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby Marcdachamp » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:17 pm

SlyTF1 wrote:Maybe that's why I don't like it much. Too much innocence.


Yeah, I can understand that, but sometimes a little light helps balance out the dark, you know?

And I say this as someone who really loved DotM.
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Re: The morals of the transformers movies.

Postby 5150 Cruiser » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:30 pm

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shamone wrote: do animals enslave other animals. And some animals can only eat meat, they have no choice, due to evolution. and the ecological system needs carnivores and omnivores, underwise the balance is maladjusted.


I still don't see it as slavery. Many of these animals are here as our food. Just as some animals are other animals food. IN our evolution we have simpley found better ways to channel our food then going outside with a big stick and beating the crap out of them. Bottom line we still are eating what we capture. were not breeding them to slave labor to rebuild our detroyed land.

shamone wrote:vyou claim we have learnt by our history. check oil and other fossil fuel consumption and tell me what we have learnt. Look at the drilling in Alaska.


Change is not going to happen over night. We are still going to be drilling for several more years before alternitive energy gets more popular. Thats just the way things will have to be intill more people get on board.

shamone wrote:For years there have been studies to find a suitable planet for relocation. A lot of the NASA missions were based around this. Remember plans for a mars base. This is not just for science, but due to the damage we have caused. Why has nbot been continued, cost and infeasibility.

Our first steo was not to amend our behavior but find an external solution


A couple things..

1.- I never believed this. Because of some pullutants people actually thought about relocating planets. :roll: Sounds more like consiracy therey than anything. One doesn't need a Mars base to realsie that this just isn't feasible. But for aurguments sake lets say it was. Its still not the same...


2.-Mars is a dormant planet. we would not be enslaving another species to rebuild ours nor would we be pushing one off their own planet.
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