Submit News Contact Us Translate Sign in Join

The most important Scene in TFP, and perhaps all TF

Discuss anything about the Transformers cartoons and comics! You can discuss anything from G1 to Cybertron as well as the comics from Marvel, Dreamwave, IDW and more!

The most important Scene in TFP, and perhaps all TF

Postby budmaloney » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:27 pm

Motto: ""Stupid Autobots""
Weapon: Sub-Machine Gun
Spoiler alert
If you haven't seen the last episode in season 2 of Transformers Prime, go play Minecraft or walk your dog/minicon. If you don't have a minicon, then Myspace.

I'm not putting tags because I want people to read it without the highlighting and read it comfortably

Our Darkest Hour was episode's title.

But who is saying the word "our"
I'm going to take a stab and suggest that this darkest hour is the Cybertronians, the Transformers as a whole and definitely not the Autobots.
What Optimus Prime did was unforgivable. It was a repeat of what happened in DOTM. Where he destroys his entire planet, dooming his race for ever. I discussed DOTM before, and how Optimus's juvenile, murderous actions were a series of bad rabid decisions.
I started thinking, why, why does Hasbro do this? In DOTM there was no closure, because Bay didn't care. The movie just ended. With Prime sucking up to the humans. To us. So that people who saw the film can go home and feel some kind of pride, at the expense of a doomed world. No one commented, all characters were shallow, they didn't moan or complain, or even attempt to kill Prime. The movie just ended.
Now on to TFP, we have a clos knit group. Who still have feelings, who understand these characters. Prime destroys the Omega key in a rabid, insane berserk rage. Upon seeing the three humans knocking on windows etc ,and Megatron's laughter. That scene reminded me of some crazed high school kid who gets bullied then pulls a Columbine, and shoots up the entire school.
Prime goes back to Earth, and we get a scene. A scene that is truly heartbreaking and emotional.
Ratchet's response to discovering that Prime destroyed the key. What a performance.

When team Prime return to base, Ratchet notices the children were on Cybertron, and asks what happened.
Bulk informs him that Optimus destroyed the key
Ratchet: "What? you did.."
Optimus: "What was necessary, there was no time for another prolonged battle, not with Earth in imminent danger"
Ratchet: "So you destroyed the only device in any universe capable of restoring our home?" and in a cheap move by the writers, they try to add comic relief in what could be the worst place to put this line, Ratchet says his famous line
"oh Optimus, we needed that"
Smokescreen defends Optimus and tells Ratchet it's not his place to second guess a battle field decision.


Ratchet, enraged, says "IT MOST CERTAINLY IS" nothing can be more human than this response, responsible, caring, medic.
Following with "THERE HAD TO BE ANOTHER WAY"

The annoying kids say, it wasn't that simple "Ratchet" with an angry inflection, and explain Megatron was trying to attack the Earth, Miko finally says "Optimus was trying to save our planet"

And comes the most amazing line in the entire series and perhaps in the franchise

"WHAT ABOUT OUR PLANET?"
Music escalating emotionally, camera panning on a collapsing figure
"All of our struggles and energon spilled and countless sacrifices, for NOTHING? " music continues, then
then Arcee says, insisting on the stupidity
"right decision or wrong, what's done is done, but we have another problem here in this world, the cons just changed the rules when they put Jack, Miko, and Raph into play"
and we ARE CUT OFF by FOWLER!
The scene that deserves the most attention ever, is cut off. The producers/ writers cut us off , mid closure. mid any real dialogue about the real struggle.
This is what I hate. They didn't let Ratchet voice his opinion.
He was shot down , again and again and again. As if Optimus did nothing wrong.
I repeat
What about our planet? what about our planet?
The 4 MILLION or so years of fighting, of death, of pain.
What does that amount to the "human race". There must be another way. Was it not the failure of team prime to involve these kids, time and time again. Earth was always in imminent danger.
Had this show taken that extra step, and discussed that part, it would have been A+++, but I was disappointed.
I'm glad Ratchet explained it.
He couldn't contain it.
And this explains the struggle of The Transformers.
Optimus is insane, delusional, and frankly an autocrat. Not willing to listen. Why did he destroy the key? Cybertron is DEAD now.
some may argue no, there will be some other power. What if there is no power. It's lost. All because of Optimus.
The writers knew this. The voice actors, felt it. But because it's HAsrbo and because prime, they killed him in the end as if to redeem his mistake.
Oh he died now, so you can't hold him accountable.
WTH dude! you just killed everyone. Humans included. Now all cybertronians are pissed. Had you packed up your **** and left that base, and put children somewhere else, you wouldn't be in this mess. Had you let these children perish to save millions of cybertronians. This is what the movies argue too. Is the fate of our world not worth a single human life?
Optimus saying Megatron will not stop at one is like fear mongering. He didn't answer the question.

It's the Decepticons who truly are the "heroic", not Autobots. They are willing to do what's necessary. These barbaric Autobots stop them at every turn. I have not seen Decepticons attacking human cities, until after what Prime does. They weren't targeting mass crowds. But now thanks to Prime, they did. All they wanted was mining energon. Because their home was gone. Ok so maybe Megatron put dark energon or w/e. But in TFP Prime is the villain, Prime is the horrible one.
I don't know what else to say, but that scene, that scene was beautiful, if it wasn't for the others ruining it, it would have been perfect.

our darkest hour indeed. More like a deal breaker with Hasrbo. They were doing ok so far, and had to pull a Michael Bay.

What do you guys think?
Last edited by budmaloney on Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Decepticons forever!
Think Purple
budmaloney
Minibot
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:02 pm
Location: Nemesis
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 6
Endurance: 8
Rank: 6
Courage: 7
Firepower: 9
Skill: 7

Re: The most important Scene in TFP, and perhaps all TF

Postby budmaloney » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:30 pm

Motto: ""Stupid Autobots""
Weapon: Sub-Machine Gun
sorry my comp double posted thread, am I enabled to delete post?
Decepticons forever!
Think Purple
budmaloney
Minibot
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:02 pm
Location: Nemesis
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 7
Speed: 6
Endurance: 8
Rank: 6
Courage: 7
Firepower: 9
Skill: 7

Re: The most important Scene in TFP, and perhaps all TF

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:04 am

Motto: "FOR THE EARTH!!!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
Oh dear. :roll:

budmaloney wrote:Spoiler alert
If you haven't seen the last episode in season 2 of Transformers Prime, go play Minecraft or walk your dog/minicon. If you don't have a minicon, then Myspace.
Who still uses Myspace these days? :lol:

budmaloney wrote:Our Darkest Hour was episode's title.

But who is saying the word "our"
No one. The title was just called "Darkest Hour". ;)


budmaloney wrote:What Optimus Prime did was unforgivable. It was a repeat of what happened in DOTM. Where he destroys his entire planet, dooming his race for ever. I discussed DOTM before, and how Optimus's juvenile, murderous actions were a series of bad rabid decisions.
Um, no. Optimus didn't destroy the planet. Megatorn did. Eons ago. The planet was already DEAD to begin with in this episode. The Autobots had nothing to lose (only gain) in this episode.

And there was zero way to tell what happened to Cybertron in DOTM. So say it imploded on itself, others say it just went back through the portal to where it was before. Plus, it was Bumblebee, not Optimus, who smashed the master Pillar that broke the space bridge when it shut off.

budmaloney wrote:I started thinking, why, why does Hasbro do this? In DOTM there was no closure, because Bay didn't care. The movie just ended. With Prime sucking up to the humans. To us. So that people who saw the film can go home and feel some kind of pride, at the expense of a doomed world. No one commented, all characters were shallow, they didn't moan or complain, or even attempt to kill Prime. The movie just ended.
Wrong forum. ;)

budmaloney wrote:Now on to TFP, we have a clos knit group. Who still have feelings, who understand these characters. Prime destroys the Omega key in a rabid, insane berserk rage. Upon seeing the three humans knocking on windows etc ,and Megatron's laughter. That scene reminded me of some crazed high school kid who gets bullied then pulls a Columbine, and shoots up the entire school.
Where were you when Megs was inflicting irreparable damage upon the Earth? He had to shut off the Omega Lock ASAP to prevent any further damage from being done, and destroying it was the fastest, most direct way to do so. He had no time to stop and ponder the inner workings of the device and twittle his thumbs while considering all avaiable options he had at the time. He had to stop it NOW or risk dooming 6 billion people.

budmaloney wrote:The scene that deserves the most attention ever, is cut off. The producers/ writers cut us off , mid closure. mid any real dialogue about the real struggle.
This is what I hate. They didn't let Ratchet voice his opinion.
Yes he did. Everything he said came out perfectly clear. They all get where he's coming from, but he doesn't get what all went down in the battle. His conclusions were all based on assumptions and inadequate data.

budmaloney wrote:He was shot down , again and again and again. As if Optimus did nothing wrong.
Because only he got to express his views, but wouldn't give any of the others a chance to give their side of the story.

budmaloney wrote:I repeat
What about our planet? what about our planet?
The 4 MILLION or so years of fighting, of death, of pain.
70 million years. But still, the Autobots LOST the Great War. Whatthe war amounted to was the Great Exodus, a chance for survival by evacuating their dead planet. At the end of it all, Cybertron was the biggest casualty of the war.

budmaloney wrote:What does that amount to the "human race". There must be another way. Was it not the failure of team prime to involve these kids, time and time again. Earth was always in imminent danger.
But never to this extent. The most danger he Cons ever posed was to an individual location each time they appeared. They had never been a global threat before now.

budmaloney wrote:Had this show taken that extra step, and discussed that part, it would have been A+++, but I was disappointed.
I'm glad Ratchet explained it.
He couldn't contain it.
And this explains the struggle of The Transformers.
Optimus is insane, delusional, and frankly an autocrat. Not willing to listen. Why did he destroy the key? Cybertron is DEAD now.
Cybertron WAS dead already. Like I said, there was nothing about Cybertron's condition at stake in this battle. Things could only improve for the planet. Instead, what result was just a maintenance of the status quo.

budmaloney wrote:some may argue no, there will be some other power. What if there is no power. It's lost. All because of Optimus.
Considering the alternative was the destruction of a second, living world, he made the right choice. Had he not, BOTH planets would have been doomed.

budmaloney wrote:The writers knew this. The voice actors, felt it. But because it's HAsrbo and because prime, they killed him in the end as if to redeem his mistake.
Oh he died now, so you can't hold him accountable.
I sincerely doubt he is dead. They have been very strict about the whole "dead characters stay dead" rule for this show, and Optimus is simply too marketable for them to kill off. Plus, htis show is part of hte larger Aligned continuity, which Optimus likely has much more to play a role in, so they can't kill him if there's more of his story to tell.

budmaloney wrote:WTH dude! you just killed everyone. Humans included. Now all cybertronians are pissed. Had you packed up your **** and left that base, and put children somewhere else, you wouldn't be in this mess. Had you let these children perish to save millions of cybertronians. This is what the movies argue too. Is the fate of our world not worth a single human life?
Would you sacrifice your own children to save millions of strangers? Serious question.

Plus, there were no Cybertronians on Cybertron (save for the odd Insecticon or whatever other vermin there might be) because the planet has been DEAD for eons.

budmaloney wrote:Optimus saying Megatron will not stop at one is like fear mongering. He didn't answer the question.
No, he's known Megatron perosnally for eons. I think when you know a guy for THAT long, you get a pretty good idea of how they think.

budmaloney wrote:It's the Decepticons who truly are the "heroic", not Autobots.
Maybe in Shattered Glass, but not here. :P

budmaloney wrote:They are willing to do what's necessary.
So it was necessary for him to terraform Earth in an act of spite BEFORE saving his own home planet?

budmaloney wrote:These barbaric Autobots stop them at every turn.
Okay, then. Next time the cons show up at your front door wanting your head on a stake, you won't have to worry about the Autobots coming in to stop them. :twisted:

budmaloney wrote:I have not seen Decepticons attacking human cities, until after what Prime does. They weren't targeting mass crowds.
Because the animators are too cheap to show such sequences the Cons were targeting Energon deposits and relic locations ,which were all conveniently in remote areas like canyons and such. :roll:

Plus, Megatron was going to attack mass crowds had he borught his Terrorcon army to Earth way back in episode 5. That was his plan then.

budmaloney wrote:But now thanks to Prime, they did. All they wanted was mining energon. Because their home was gone.
All thanks to Megatron for destroying Cybertron in the first place.

And, they were gonna use all that Energon to conquer the Earth.

budmaloney wrote:Ok so maybe Megatron put dark energon or w/e. But in TFP Prime is the villain, Prime is the horrible one.
Yes, how dare he sacrifice a worthless, inhospitable planet to save a living, inhabited one filled with 6 billion innocent lives! The nerve! >:oP

budmaloney wrote:I don't know what else to say, but that scene, that scene was beautiful, if it wasn't for the others ruining it, it would have been perfect.
If you like guys who speak out of line and jump to one-sided conclusions without letting the other side give their fair take of the matter, then, sure!

budmaloney wrote:our darkest hour indeed.
"Darkeest Hour". No "Our".

budmaloney wrote:More like a deal breaker with Hasrbo. They were doing ok so far, and had to pull a Michael Bay.

What do you guys think?
The Autobots were SUPPOSED to lose this season. That was the ENTIRE POINT that this episode was made. Things were meant to go from bad to worse to worse still to even worse to worse worse WORSE. There was to be no hope for victory from the Autobots in this episode because they were not meant to win this time around.

And, again, would you kill your own precious flesh and blood child to save millions of people you've never met and could honestly care less about? Serious question.
Last edited by Sabrblade on Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
If you've read Exodus, wanna read the War For Cybertron comic? PM me.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
User avatar
Sabrblade
God Of Transformers
Posts: 17489
News Credits: 110
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:22 pm
Location: Florida, the "Neglected" State
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 10
Speed: 7
Endurance: 6
Rank: 9
Courage: 8
Firepower: 10
Skill: 9

Re: The most important Scene in TFP, and perhaps all TF

Postby Burn » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:29 am

budmaloney wrote:our darkest hour indeed. More like a deal breaker with Hasrbo. They were doing ok so far, and had to pull a Michael Bay.


This is what happens when you let Orci and Kurtzman near a project.

They keep recycling the same ideas again and again.

Sabrblade wrote:would you kill your own precious flesh and blood child to save millions of people you've never met and could honestly care less about? Serious question.


Captain Jack Harkness did.
User avatar
Burn
Forum Admin
Posts: 38634
News Credits: 59
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:37 am

Re: The most important Scene in TFP, and perhaps all TF

Postby Handels-Messerschmitt » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:15 am

Losing any hope of (easily) restoring your home is a pretty bad blow but killing another world in the process isn't worth it. Their home was really lost a long time ago.
Handels-Messerschmitt
Godmaster
Posts: 1558
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 12:11 pm

Re: The most important Scene in TFP, and perhaps all TF

Postby ebilly99 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:31 pm

Ok first Megatron planed for Prime to destroy Cybertron, he needed it gone to begin a campaign to the stars. If he formatted earth he would have been a tyrant. However doing it after Cybertron is doomed is a necessary risk. This is why the Human capture was so important. Without it Prime would have never handed over the keys. With the humans in the autobots hands and Earth turning into Cybertron 2 it would have been primes fault that the humans died. Also to be fair Cybertron needs to die. If not the transformer race will only stagnate. Now that Cybertron is dead it is no longer Holy. The Bots and cons have no safety net, no protector to save them. There fate is there own. (Robots and empires describes this as well)
ebilly99
Vehicon
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 7:50 pm

Re: The most important Scene in TFP, and perhaps all TF

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:30 pm

Motto: "FOR THE EARTH!!!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
ebilly99 wrote:Ok first Megatron planed for Prime to destroy Cybertron, he needed it gone to begin a campaign to the stars.
Megatron already destroyed Cybertron. Prime could do no more harm than what had already been done.

ebilly99 wrote:If he formatted earth he would have been a tyrant.
He already was (is) a tyrant. He's the tyrannical ruler of the Decepticons. ;)

ebilly99 wrote:However doing it after Cybertron is doomed is a necessary risk.
How could Cybertron be doomed if it's already passed the point of doom?

ebilly99 wrote:Also to be fair Cybertron needs to die.
It already did. Eons ago. At the hands of Megatron.

ebilly99 wrote:If not the transformer race will only stagnate.
There is no Transformer race on Cybertron aside from some vermin.

ebilly99 wrote:Now that Cybertron is dead it is no longer Holy. The Bots and cons have no safety net, no protector to save them. There fate is there own. (Robots and empires describes this as well)
Cybertron dying was the whole reason they left the planet in the first place.
If you've read Exodus, wanna read the War For Cybertron comic? PM me.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
User avatar
Sabrblade
God Of Transformers
Posts: 17489
News Credits: 110
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:22 pm
Location: Florida, the "Neglected" State
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 10
Speed: 7
Endurance: 6
Rank: 9
Courage: 8
Firepower: 10
Skill: 9

Re: The most important Scene in TFP, and perhaps all TF

Postby ebilly99 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:19 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
ebilly99 wrote:Ok first Megatron planed for Prime to destroy Cybertron, he needed it gone to begin a campaign to the stars.
Megatron already destroyed Cybertron. Prime could do no more harm than what had already been done.Cybertron was recharging, This could have brought it back. Everyone will remember that, no one will remember who doomed it.

ebilly99 wrote:If he formatted earth he would have been a tyrant.
He already was (is) a tyrant. He's the tyrannical ruler of the Decepticons. ;) Politically this will be overlooked, during a war the victor rights the history book.

ebilly99 wrote:However doing it after Cybertron is doomed is a necessary risk.
How could Cybertron be doomed if it's already passed the point of doom?It wasn't, Cybertron could be restored with the allspark and the omega lock. Now all that is left is the all spark that can not be found.

ebilly99 wrote:Also to be fair Cybertron needs to die.
It already did. Eons ago. At the hands of Megatron.More like in a coma. Cybertronians held out hope that it would be back, not that hope is gone.

ebilly99 wrote:If not the transformer race will only stagnate.
There is no Transformer race on Cybertron aside from some vermin. As long as hope survives for a reformed cybertron there was never hope of growth. (Also when we see the stars we will need to destroy earth as well.)

ebilly99 wrote:Now that Cybertron is dead it is no longer Holy. The Bots and cons have no safety net, no protector to save them. There fate is there own. (Robots and empires describes this as well)
Cybertron dying was the whole reason they left the planet in the first place.Optimus left to find the All Spark. Now there is no hope no hope at all.
Spoilers are my reply cause I do not know how to do the multiquote thing.
ebilly99
Vehicon
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 7:50 pm

Re: The most important Scene in TFP, and perhaps all TF

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:56 pm

Motto: "FOR THE EARTH!!!"
Weapon: Saber Blade
ebilly99 wrote:Cybertron was recharging, This could have brought it back.
It was trying to heal itself of the Dark Energon that had infected it so long ago. That process was complete, but the planet was still lifeless.

ebilly99 wrote:Everyone will remember that, no one will remember who doomed it.
All of the present-day Autobots who were around back then seem to remember Megatron destroying the planet by tainting the core.

ebilly99 wrote:Politically this will be overlooked, during a war the victor rights the history book.
Not the Covenant of Primus, though. ;)


ebilly99 wrote:More like in a coma. Cybertronians held out hope that it would be back, not that hope is gone.
Primus is in a coma, but the planet itself is "dead" as in "inhospitable". While it could have been brought back from the dead, there's no worse state for the planet to be in than how it is now (beyond blowing the planet up, but that's another subject).

ebilly99 wrote:As long as hope survives for a reformed cybertron there was never hope of growth. (Also when we see the stars we will need to destroy earth as well.)
They can still grow if Cybertron is restored, as it could serve as the foundation for a new growth and expansion to beyond. Like, the intergalactic space bridge network linking Cybertron to the colony worlds and to even newer worlds could be fixed and thus would not only branch out the Cybertronian race even further but also help all the diverse Transformer races and other races grow closer together in a grand cosmic neighborhood. ;)

ebilly99 wrote:Optimus left to find the All Spark. Now there is no hope no hope at all.
He did not leave to look for the AllSpark. The fact that he picked up on its signal after they left the planet was a stroke of good fortune. He left because:
A) The Autobots lost the war and needed to escape the Decepticons,
B) Cybertron had been lost to them and had been rendered an inhospitable, dead planet that could no longer support life,
C) The planet began an eons-long process of cleansing itself of the Dark Energon that had killed it and so needed to be left alone. Though it eventually completed this process, there was still no means to sustain life on the planet and was still a dead husk.
If you've read Exodus, wanna read the War For Cybertron comic? PM me.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
User avatar
Sabrblade
God Of Transformers
Posts: 17489
News Credits: 110
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:22 pm
Location: Florida, the "Neglected" State
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 10
Speed: 7
Endurance: 6
Rank: 9
Courage: 8
Firepower: 10
Skill: 9


Return to Transformers Cartoons and Comics Forum

Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #103 - Road Trip
Twincast / Podcast #103:
"Road Trip"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Sunday, October 19th, 2014