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The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Discuss anything about the Transformers cartoons and comics! You can discuss anything from G1 to Cybertron as well as the comics from Marvel, Dreamwave, IDW and more!

Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Saber Prime » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:44 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:A Cyborg is a being that is composed of both robotic's and organic parts.Examples can be Cyborg from the Teen Titans or the Terminators T100 serries.

A Cyborg does not have to have started out life as a human.


You're a bit mixed up. The terminators are NOT cyborgs.

A cyborg is an organic with cybernetic parts but they do start out organic.

A robot with organic parts which is what the Terminators were is different from a cyborg. I'm not sure they were ever really given a name outside of transformers but they are Technorganics.

Sabrblade wrote:But didn't TT's Cyborg and the Terminators start out as humans?


No they started out as robots. You missed the entire plot of the movies if you thought they were humans.

Judgment Day, not the title of the second movie but the actual day they talk about in the movies, is the day when all the machines orginally designed to serve man kind turned on us and started a war. That future war John Conner is the leader of is a war of humans agenst machines.

The machines that travel into the past only have the human appearance because the time bubble that they use to get to the past destroys any inorganic material it comes into contact with. (this is allso why they appear in the past naked) as an added bonus, the skin allso acts as a disguise for a while.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:11 pm

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Saber Prime wrote:You're a bit mixed up.


No I'm not.

Saber Prime wrote: The terminators are NOT cyborgs.


Yes they are.
http://www.goingfaster.com/term2029/t800techdata.html
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/t/t800.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_(character)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Terminator


Saber Prime wrote:A cyborg is an organic with cybernetic parts but they do start out organic.


Incorrect.

A cyborg is a "cybernetic organism" while the most common type in fiction is one that started out as a human the term does apply to any being that is in part both part organic and part robotic.

I hate useing wiki as a source but here read the entree
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyborg


Saber Prime wrote:A robot with organic parts which is what the Terminators were is different from a cyborg.


No its not.

The films script as well as every novel or comic book on the series has used the term "Cyborg" for the Ternminators.

In short a Cyborg is a "cybernetic organism" and thats what a Terminator is.

Here's an other wiki entree about Cyborgs in fiction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyborgs_in_fiction

If you follow it even the movie "The Bicentennial Man" is listed as it is a story about a robot who modifys himself with organic components making him a "Cyborg".

Saber Prime wrote: I'm not sure they were ever really given a name outside of transformers but they are Technorganics.


Thats an other fitting term that is no more or less valid then the term "Cyborg".

The main difference is that the term Cyborg only applies to "cybernetic organism" that appear to look human while a Techno-organic can resemble any form of organic life.

Marvel comics has an other type of "Techno-organic" life but I wont site it since it will only serve to confuse the matter.

Saber Prime wrote:No they started out as robots. You missed the entire plot of the movies if you thought they were humans.

Judgment Day, not the title of the second movie but the actual day they talk about in the movies, is the day when all the machines orginally designed to serve man kind turned on us and started a war. That future war John Conner is the leader of is a war of humans agenst machines.

The machines that travel into the past only have the human appearance because the time bubble that they use to get to the past destroys any inorganic material it comes into contact with. (this is allso why they appear in the past naked) as an added bonus, the skin allso acts as a disguise for a while.


The Terminators were designed with originally organics so that they can better infultrate the human resistance groups.

And the T-800 are classified as "Cyborg's".Its in the first movie and the script.

About the only logical reason for saying that the Terminators T-800 serries are not really Cyborgs is because they are not dependent on their organics to live.

But I would say that useing that excuse is narrow minded.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Saber Prime » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:22 pm

You know for a guy who never contridicts himself you sure like to do it alot and ironically that is allso a contridiction. Anyway, these two quotes here don't match.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:the term does apply to any being that is in part both part organic and part robotic.


The main difference is that the term Cyborg only applies to "cybernetic organism" that appear to look human while a Techno-organic can resemble any form of organic life.


In the first quote you said ANY being that is part organic and part cybernetic is a cyborg. In the second quote you said they'd be a technorganic as appearantly only technorganics can take on any form.

Cyborgs as you put it in the second quote have to be humanoid but you didn't specify that in the first quote.

So are you sure you know what your talking about because it kinda sounds like your questioning these definitions yourself.

More to the point, I don't recall the term "Cyborg" EVER being used in a terminator movie. They only refer to them as "the machines" or robots. Most offten it's "the machines". Technically speaking the T800, Arnold, was not even a blend of robotic and organic material. He was a full robot with an organic covering. Whenever they showed thoughs robots in the future scenes they didn't have the skin and were just the mechanical componants.

Data did have Organic componants intigrated into his circuitry at one point, implanted by the Borg in one of the movies. It actully surved as part of his body at that point where as the skin on the T800 only served as a covering, there's no evidence to suport it was part of their systems. They felt nothing if the skin was damaged where as Data could feel his skin.

The problem here is really trying to apply terms to all sci-fi that are used differently in every fiction. Kinda like an earlier argument we had on weather or not Mutant and Natural were the same thing. Because you were useing Marvel comics definition of Mutant and I was useing City of Heroes/Villains definition.

Allthough the definitions aren't much different.

Mutant is the next stage in evolution for Mervel, a suposidly natural evolution. But that begs the question, why doesn't everyone evolve the same way?

Natural humans, is just what we are in real life, every perfectly healthy human being is capable of the same things. And notice I said perfectly healthy because I realize some people have dissabilitys that could limit their abilitys. Some people however learn to cominsate for say the lack of haveing arms and again, we could all learn to do the same.

In the fictional universe not all mutants can learn to controll the weather or shoot lasers out of their eyes. So if this is a natural evolution why don't they have the potential to develop the same powers for every mutant?

Normal humans have the same potential so why don't any mutants have the same potential?

That's preddy much the difference between Mutant and Natural right there. Natural, the majority of your race has the same potential you do the only difference in your natural abilitys depends on training, education. Mutant, theres a high possibility you could be the only mutant with the same powers and/or physical mutation you have.

The next origin down the line is Science which is a form of being a mutant only in this case you weren't born mutant. There was an episode of Spider-man with an X-Men crossover that covered this. Spider-man was refered to as a mutant however because he wasn't born that way Wolverine complained about letting him in the school.

Technoligy are Science origins get mixed up alot as well but the difference is Science changes your own DNA giveing you powers. Technoligy would just mean you had no real powers but are useing armor and/or weapons rather than training yourself. In short Technoligy is another form of natural only the natural person isn't useing his or her own abilitys.

The X-Men are all examples of mutants.

Spider-man, the Fantastic Four, and the Hulk are examples of Science.

Ironman is an example of Technoligy.

Batman, Superman, and the Punisher are examples of natural origins.

Blade would probly be classified as Magic because vampires are mythical creatures. Magic is just a catigory all it's own that can't be exsplained by any of the other 4.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:01 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Saber Prime wrote:You know for a guy who never contridicts himself you sure like to do it alot and ironically that is allso a contridiction. Anyway, these two quotes here don't match.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:the term does apply to any being that is in part both part organic and part robotic.


The main difference is that the term Cyborg only applies to "cybernetic organism" that appear to look human while a Techno-organic can resemble any form of organic life.


In the first quote you said ANY being that is part organic and part cybernetic is a cyborg. In the second quote you said they'd be a technorganic as appearantly only technorganics can take on any form.

Cyborgs as you put it in the second quote have to be humanoid but you didn't specify that in the first quote.


I should have been more specific but neither statement really contradicts the other.

When you think about it the true definition of the word "Cyborg" is "Cybernetic organism" so in truth the only true critria is that its part robotic and part organic no matter the appearance.

But in most fictions a "Cyborg" must appear to look human.

Saber Prime wrote:
So are you sure you know what your talking about because it kinda sounds like your questioning these definitions yourself.

More to the point, I don't recall the term "Cyborg" EVER being used in a terminator movie. They only refer to them as "the machines" or robots. Most offten it's "the machines". Technically speaking the T800, Arnold, was not even a blend of robotic and organic material. He was a full robot with an organic covering. Whenever they showed thoughs robots in the future scenes they didn't have the skin and were just the mechanical componants.


The term Cyborg was used in at least 1 of the movies not to mention the current tv serries.

And like I said before about the only logical reason for saying that they arent Cyborgs is that they arent dependent on their organics to live.

But I find that a very narrow minded view on the term.

Saber Prime wrote:
Data did have Organic componants intigrated into his circuitry at one point, implanted by the Borg in one of the movies. It actully surved as part of his body at that point where as the skin on the T800 only served as a covering, there's no evidence to suport it was part of their systems. They felt nothing if the skin was damaged where as Data could feel his skin.


And for those few minutes Data was considered a cyborg.I dont see being part of their systems or not as being a defining factor on wether they are cyborgs.

If they have growing,living organic components then they are cyborgs.

Saber Prime wrote:
The problem here is really trying to apply terms to all sci-fi that are used differently in every fiction. Kinda like an earlier argument we had on weather or not Mutant and Natural were the same thing. Because you were useing Marvel comics definition of Mutant and I was useing City of Heroes/Villains definition.

Allthough the definitions aren't much different.

Mutant is the next stage in evolution for Mervel, a suposidly natural evolution. But that begs the question, why doesn't everyone evolve the same way?


Because the Mutant Gene is like a non-differential stem cell.

The gene develops differently with each individual just like stem cells develop into the different organs needed.

Saber Prime wrote:
Natural humans, is just what we are in real life, every perfectly healthy human being is capable of the same things. And notice I said perfectly healthy because I realize some people have dissabilitys that could limit their abilitys. Some people however learn to cominsate for say the lack of haveing arms and again, we could all learn to do the same.

In the fictional universe not all mutants can learn to controll the weather or shoot lasers out of their eyes. So if this is a natural evolution why don't they have the potential to develop the same powers for every mutant?

Normal humans have the same potential so why don't any mutants have the same potential?


Again its like injecting non differential stem cells into a damaged organ.

If you were to take these stem cells and inject them into a damaged pancreas those stem cells would develop into a pancreas.

The mutant gene is a non differential gene.It develops differently in each person.

Saber Prime wrote:The X-Men are all examples of mutants.


Correct.And in the Marvel U Mutans have been evolving naturally.

Saber Prime wrote:
Spider-man, the Fantastic Four, and the Hulk are examples of Science.


Science that "MUTATED" their genes.

Saber Prime wrote:Ironman is an example of Technoligy.

Batman, Superman, and the Punisher are examples of natural origins.

Blade would probly be classified as Magic because vampires are mythical creatures. Magic is just a catigory all it's own that can't be exsplained by any of the other 4.


There are two types of Vampire in the Marvel U.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Saber Prime » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:39 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:The term Cyborg was used in at least 1 of the movies not to mention the current tv serries.


I haven't actully seen the tv series yet. I want to check it out but I'm never home when it's on. That's something I could add to my DVR list. :)

Saber Prime wrote:Data did have Organic componants intigrated into his circuitry at one point, implanted by the Borg in one of the movies. It actully surved as part of his body at that point where as the skin on the T800 only served as a covering, there's no evidence to suport it was part of their systems. They felt nothing if the skin was damaged where as Data could feel his skin.


And for those few minutes Data was considered a cyborg.I dont see being part of their systems or not as being a defining factor on wether they are cyborgs.

If they have growing,living organic components then they are cyborgs.


Look at it this way. If a robot with an organic skin is a cyborg then Ironmonger would allso be a cyborg. I'm not going to dispute Ironman because his chest piece actully could consider him a cyborg but no part of Ironmonger is actully mechanical, it's just a covering.

So that being said, do you consider Ironmonger to be a cyborg and if not, why?

Saber Prime wrote:Spider-man, the Fantastic Four, and the Hulk are examples of Science.


Science that "MUTATED" their genes.


Yes but did you read where I talked about the different mutants. Like Spider-man being a mutant and Wolverine not likeing him because he's not a BORN mutant.

Saber Prime wrote:Ironman is an example of Technoligy.

Batman, Superman, and the Punisher are examples of natural origins.

Blade would probly be classified as Magic because vampires are mythical creatures. Magic is just a catigory all it's own that can't be exsplained by any of the other 4.


There are two types of Vampire in the Marvel U.


I can't remember the characters name or I'd actully try to look him up but I know who you're talking about. He was in the cartoon series as well. A Science origin vampire who started out as a villain on the series and later on ended up working with Blade. He was physically mutated unlike a real vampire and had these 5 holes in his hands that he could use to draw blood rather than biteing like a real vampire. Other than the blood thing he actully was nothing like a vampire but they still called him one.

If this isn't what you were talking about, could you clarify?
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:36 am

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Saber Prime wrote:Look at it this way. If a robot with an organic skin is a cyborg then Ironmonger would allso be a cyborg. I'm not going to dispute Ironman because his chest piece actully could consider him a cyborg but no part of Ironmonger is actully mechanical, it's just a covering.

So that being said, do you consider Ironmonger to be a cyborg and if not, why?


By what logic can you consider the Ironmonger a Cyborg.

Its a robotic suit....that may tie into the wear's nerves system but its still a suit.

Now if the wearer has had modifications done to his body to eneble him to wear the suit then he may be considered a cyborg but if the suit can tie into a persons body/mind the way they are naturally then they are not cyborgs.

Saber Prime wrote:

Yes but did you read where I talked about the different mutants. Like Spider-man being a mutant and Wolverine not likeing him because he's not a BORN mutant.


I read it and ignored it because it was obvious that you misunderstood the calling of him as a mutant in that animated episode.

It was part of the plot to cause confusion in the character.

Simply put Spiderman is not a mutant.He is a "Mutate".His DNA has be "MUTATED" at a cellular level.

So by no means is Spiderman a mutant.

On the other hand there is a theory in the Marvel U that characters like Spiderman,The Hulk,The FF and so many others carry within them a recessive mutant gene like some parents carry the recessive Blue eye gene.

The idea is that while Peter Parker was not born a mutant his offspring may have been if he mated with an other person with a recessive mutant gene.

The reasons for this theroy is that many other characters exposed to the same things that have mutated Spidermans or the Hulks bodies dont always mutate into beings with powers and sometimes die from exposer.

Saber Prime wrote:I can't remember the characters name or I'd actully try to look him up but I know who you're talking about. He was in the cartoon series as well. A Science origin vampire who started out as a villain on the series and later on ended up working with Blade. He was physically mutated unlike a real vampire and had these 5 holes in his hands that he could use to draw blood rather than biteing like a real vampire. Other than the blood thing he actully was nothing like a vampire but they still called him one.

If this isn't what you were talking about, could you clarify?

Morbius, the Living Vampire

He is what I'm talking about but his origins,powers and phical abbilities were changed for the cartoon serries.

In the comics he bit people with his fangs like any other Vampire.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby The Chronic » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:53 am

Haven't chaeck this thread in quite a while now, but why am I not surprised to see sto_vo_kor and Saber Prime going at it over a trivial point :P you two could give Megatron and Prime a run for there money
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:02 am

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chronic wrote:Haven't chaeck this thread in quite a while now, but why am I not surprised to see sto_vo_kor and Saber Prime going at it over a trivial point :P you two could give Megatron and Prime a run for there money


Why thank you.

Me and Sabe do this all the time....its all in fun :o)
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:42 am

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Morbius, the Living Vampire

He is what I'm talking about but his origins,powers and phical abbilities were changed for the cartoon serries.

In the comics he bit people with his fangs like any other Vampire.


Yes, that series changed so much and suffered from some seriously heavy cencorship:

By 1994, heavy censorship was being enforced by Fox because certain shows were being banned for excessive violence in some countries. So in a bid to make the Spider-Man animated series as politically correct as possible, the producers of the show were instructed to abide by their extensive list of requirements. Among the notable restrictions were:
  • Not mentioning "death", "die", "kill" or other words with a strong negative meaning. Death was to be avoided, leading the issue to be skirted around. "Destroy" and "destruction" were frequently employed as synonyms. For example:
    • Rather than explicitly stating that Uncle Ben was killed it is only said that he "was shot" and that Peter "let him down."
    • It is stated that the Punisher's family was "caught in a crossfire between rival gangs", and the same applied to the wife of the Destroyer.
    • At one point, when the Green Goblin returns after seemingly perishing, Spider-Man says, "You?! But I thought you were-" and the Green Goblin cuts him off with, "I'm not.. but you'll soon be!" before throwing a Pumpkin Bomb at Spider-Man.
    • When Hydro-Man was defeated and evaporated, Mary Jane asked "Is he-?" Spider-Man cuts her off by saying "Not necessarily." He goes on to explain that water that evaporates always eventually returns to the earth in the form of rain.
    • There were exceptions, such as when Felicia's mother was attacked by Kraven, and stated "That madman nearly killed you." or when Mary Jane suggested that Harry was trying to "avenge the death of his father."
  • Many realistic guns were not allowed, and no firearms could shoot bullets, so instead they fired lasers complimented by 'futuristic' sound effects. This often led to scenes in which ordinary policemen wielded futuristic pistols. However, in Episode 3.09, Robbie Robertson's son Randy finds a real-looking gun in his father's desk, though it is never fired on screen, and in Episode 56, when Keane Marlow is telling the story of how he lost his wife, the bank robbers are firing a pistol and a semi-automatic. In "Day of the Chameleon", the Chameleon is about to pull out a realistic looking pistol from behind his back before Spider-Man stops him. In "Sting of the Scorpion" a flashback shows Jameson's wife's killer supposedly using a realistic gun in a drive by shooting. It is worth noting that the team behind the roughly contemporary Batman: The Animated Series portrayed realistic, if anachronistic, firearms onscreen throughout that show's run without ever having an episode banned or censored as a result.
  • Spider-Man was not allowed to hit anyone with his fist, however there were a few exceptions. In Episode 39 ("The Spot") in which he used his spider-sense to guide a punch through a dimension portal and knock out the Spot. He also punched the Scorpion twice in "The Final Nightmare."
  • No crashing glass was allowed. However, in Episode 43, when Spider-Man and Doc Ock were battling in Felicia and Anastasia Hardy's home, Ock accidentally smashed a glass window with one of his tentacles.
  • No children in peril, although there was a scene where a teenager was stuck to the bottom of an elevator, about to be crushed until Spider-Man saved him.
  • No vampires were allowed on the show. This created complications with the use of the characters Morbius the living vampire and Blade the vampire hunter. Consequently, Morbius only drained victims through suckers on his hands, rather than by biting them in the traditional vampire style on the neck, and rather than blood, his sustenance was referred to only as "plasma." However, the word "blood" is used regularly in non-vampire episodes. True vampires later appeared anyway, primarily in the form of Blade's vampire mother, but they are not shown actually biting anyone.
  • Spider-Man was not allowed to harm any pigeons when he landed on rooftops.
  • Cletus Kasady a.k.a. Carnage was not a serial killer in the series, he was just a madman. Carnage never actually used his symbiotic blades to harm anyone, he was either stopped or dodged. He also absorbed people's energy rather than killing them outright. However, he has made a few references to attempts to murder. For instance, when Baron Mordo stated to him that he needed a few more life forces, Carnage said "Only a few? Too bad!". He also referred to his process of draining life force as "feeding".
There are, however, notable exceptions to these rules. Examples include:
  • When Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson confront Hydro-Man in Episode 2.03 for the last time, Hydro-Man vaporizes when he touches hot ground, and never returns.
  • Due to the unstable DNA structure of the clones of Mary Jane Watson and Hydro-Man, they vaporized and died.
  • Several other characters, including Mysterio, Jameson's wife and the Kingpin's father were implied to have died off-screen.
  • It should be noted that the restricted words were sometimes mentioned regardless of Fox's censorship. For example, in "The Insidious Six", Scorpion states that he'd "kill to work for the Kingpin" (a common exaggeration used by many). Another variation appears in "Hydro Man", where Liz Allan says the word in pig latin to Mary Jane. When trying to reason with The Spot, Spider-Man said "You're no killer." Scorpion even said the word "kill" in his first appearance and the death words were used regularly in the Six Forgotten Warriors five-part episode saga.
After the September 11, 2001 attacks, ABC Family heavily edited the episode "Day of the Chameleon" to remove the World Trade Center buildings, parts of the New York skyline, and a helicopter crashing into a building, exploding, and falling to the ground below, among other shots. This resulted in the first scene being impossible to comprehend as it was originally intended. Dialogue was re-looped to match the new, shorter version. Some production credits from the episode are missing as well, due to their being on screen during the omitted footage. They also removed the last two episodes of the second season since both of them featured a building burning down. Another noticeable edit can be viewed in season three's "Enter the Green Goblin" episode. In the original, the Goblin Glider slams into a building with Spider-Man riding on top. In the newly edited version, the scene is cut, and Spider-Man emerges from a hole in the side of the building. Another edit occurs near the end of episode 21, when it is revealed that Kraven and Punisher's last battle with the "Man-Spider" was in fact inside the parking garage of the World Trade Center, and that Kraven had deduced the location by smelling some webbing left at a previous battle and detecting remnant soot in it from the terrorist bombing of the early 1990s. The whole sequence of Punisher finding out where they are and Kraven's explanation of how he knew where to look for them was cut, though the battle scenes within the garage are left intact, since obviously they could belong to any parking garage until the final revelation.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Saber Prime » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:57 am

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Saber Prime wrote:Look at it this way. If a robot with an organic skin is a cyborg then Ironmonger would allso be a cyborg. I'm not going to dispute Ironman because his chest piece actully could consider him a cyborg but no part of Ironmonger is actully mechanical, it's just a covering.

So that being said, do you consider Ironmonger to be a cyborg and if not, why?


By what logic can you consider the Ironmonger a Cyborg.

Its a robotic suit....that may tie into the wear's nerves system but its still a suit.

Now if the wearer has had modifications done to his body to eneble him to wear the suit then he may be considered a cyborg but if the suit can tie into a persons body/mind the way they are naturally then they are not cyborgs.


Well by you're logic. Like you just exsplained, the Ironmonger armor is "just a suit" there's nothing conecting the suit to the human inside it.

The skin on the Terminator T800 is the same thing. There's nothing conecting the skin to the robot inside it.

Saber Prime wrote:Yes but did you read where I talked about the different mutants. Like Spider-man being a mutant and Wolverine not likeing him because he's not a BORN mutant.


I read it and ignored it because it was obvious that you misunderstood the calling of him as a mutant in that animated episode.

It was part of the plot to cause confusion in the character.

Simply put Spiderman is not a mutant.He is a "Mutate".His DNA has be "MUTATED" at a cellular level.

So by no means is Spiderman a mutant.

On the other hand there is a theory in the Marvel U that characters like Spiderman,The Hulk,The FF and so many others carry within them a recessive mutant gene like some parents carry the recessive Blue eye gene.

The idea is that while Peter Parker was not born a mutant his offspring may have been if he mated with an other person with a recessive mutant gene.

The reasons for this theroy is that many other characters exposed to the same things that have mutated Spidermans or the Hulks bodies dont always mutate into beings with powers and sometimes die from exposer.


I don't belive that exsplination was ever mentioned in the cartoon. It was just the difference between born mutants and people like Spider-man who became mutants later in life.

What you're saying is probly true for the comics, but was different for the cartoon.

In the movie allso different. It was shown in the first movie that Bruce Banner's father was giving him drugs that allowed him to be mutated rather than getting killed.

In the second movie it was mentioned briefly that Betty Ross had created some sort of primer that Bruce took before the exsperiment. In the words of the Leader "That's why you didn't die from radiation sickness years ago."

It actully seems even Abomination was taking the super soilder serum that could have prevented his death and caused a mutation insted.

Again, yes you're probly right about the comics, that they carrey the mutant gene and that's why they mutated when they should of died but that doesn't seem to be the case for the cartoon or the movies.

They mention the mutant gene in the X-Men movies but beyond what they said that apperently only males can pass the gene to the next generation there's been no other talk of it in other movies.

Saber Prime wrote:I can't remember the characters name or I'd actully try to look him up but I know who you're talking about. He was in the cartoon series as well. A Science origin vampire who started out as a villain on the series and later on ended up working with Blade. He was physically mutated unlike a real vampire and had these 5 holes in his hands that he could use to draw blood rather than biteing like a real vampire. Other than the blood thing he actully was nothing like a vampire but they still called him one.

If this isn't what you were talking about, could you clarify?

Morbius, the Living Vampire

He is what I'm talking about but his origins,powers and phical abbilities were changed for the cartoon serries.

In the comics he bit people with his fangs like any other Vampire.


Well, what was the difference between him and a normal vampire in the comics?
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:20 am

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Sabrblade wrote:Yes, that series changed so much and suffered from some seriously heavy cencorship:

By 1994, heavy censorship was being enforced by Fox because certain shows were being banned for excessive violence in some countries. So in a bid to make the Spider-Man animated series as politically correct as possible, the producers of the show were instructed to abide by their extensive list of requirements. Among the notable restrictions were:
  • Not mentioning "death", "die", "kill" or other words with a strong negative meaning. Death was to be avoided, leading the issue to be skirted around. "Destroy" and "destruction" were frequently employed as synonyms. For example:
    • Rather than explicitly stating that Uncle Ben was killed it is only said that he "was shot" and that Peter "let him down."
    • It is stated that the Punisher's family was "caught in a crossfire between rival gangs", and the same applied to the wife of the Destroyer.
    • At one point, when the Green Goblin returns after seemingly perishing, Spider-Man says, "You?! But I thought you were-" and the Green Goblin cuts him off with, "I'm not.. but you'll soon be!" before throwing a Pumpkin Bomb at Spider-Man.
    • When Hydro-Man was defeated and evaporated, Mary Jane asked "Is he-?" Spider-Man cuts her off by saying "Not necessarily." He goes on to explain that water that evaporates always eventually returns to the earth in the form of rain.
    • There were exceptions, such as when Felicia's mother was attacked by Kraven, and stated "That madman nearly killed you." or when Mary Jane suggested that Harry was trying to "avenge the death of his father."
  • Many realistic guns were not allowed, and no firearms could shoot bullets, so instead they fired lasers complimented by 'futuristic' sound effects. This often led to scenes in which ordinary policemen wielded futuristic pistols. However, in Episode 3.09, Robbie Robertson's son Randy finds a real-looking gun in his father's desk, though it is never fired on screen, and in Episode 56, when Keane Marlow is telling the story of how he lost his wife, the bank robbers are firing a pistol and a semi-automatic. In "Day of the Chameleon", the Chameleon is about to pull out a realistic looking pistol from behind his back before Spider-Man stops him. In "Sting of the Scorpion" a flashback shows Jameson's wife's killer supposedly using a realistic gun in a drive by shooting. It is worth noting that the team behind the roughly contemporary Batman: The Animated Series portrayed realistic, if anachronistic, firearms onscreen throughout that show's run without ever having an episode banned or censored as a result.
  • Spider-Man was not allowed to hit anyone with his fist, however there were a few exceptions. In Episode 39 ("The Spot") in which he used his spider-sense to guide a punch through a dimension portal and knock out the Spot. He also punched the Scorpion twice in "The Final Nightmare."
  • No crashing glass was allowed. However, in Episode 43, when Spider-Man and Doc Ock were battling in Felicia and Anastasia Hardy's home, Ock accidentally smashed a glass window with one of his tentacles.
  • No children in peril, although there was a scene where a teenager was stuck to the bottom of an elevator, about to be crushed until Spider-Man saved him.
  • No vampires were allowed on the show. This created complications with the use of the characters Morbius the living vampire and Blade the vampire hunter. Consequently, Morbius only drained victims through suckers on his hands, rather than by biting them in the traditional vampire style on the neck, and rather than blood, his sustenance was referred to only as "plasma." However, the word "blood" is used regularly in non-vampire episodes. True vampires later appeared anyway, primarily in the form of Blade's vampire mother, but they are not shown actually biting anyone.
  • Spider-Man was not allowed to harm any pigeons when he landed on rooftops.
  • Cletus Kasady a.k.a. Carnage was not a serial killer in the series, he was just a madman. Carnage never actually used his symbiotic blades to harm anyone, he was either stopped or dodged. He also absorbed people's energy rather than killing them outright. However, he has made a few references to attempts to murder. For instance, when Baron Mordo stated to him that he needed a few more life forces, Carnage said "Only a few? Too bad!". He also referred to his process of draining life force as "feeding".
There are, however, notable exceptions to these rules. Examples include:
  • When Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson confront Hydro-Man in Episode 2.03 for the last time, Hydro-Man vaporizes when he touches hot ground, and never returns.
  • Due to the unstable DNA structure of the clones of Mary Jane Watson and Hydro-Man, they vaporized and died.
  • Several other characters, including Mysterio, Jameson's wife and the Kingpin's father were implied to have died off-screen.
  • It should be noted that the restricted words were sometimes mentioned regardless of Fox's censorship. For example, in "The Insidious Six", Scorpion states that he'd "kill to work for the Kingpin" (a common exaggeration used by many). Another variation appears in "Hydro Man", where Liz Allan says the word in pig latin to Mary Jane. When trying to reason with The Spot, Spider-Man said "You're no killer." Scorpion even said the word "kill" in his first appearance and the death words were used regularly in the Six Forgotten Warriors five-part episode saga.
After the September 11, 2001 attacks, ABC Family heavily edited the episode "Day of the Chameleon" to remove the World Trade Center buildings, parts of the New York skyline, and a helicopter crashing into a building, exploding, and falling to the ground below, among other shots. This resulted in the first scene being impossible to comprehend as it was originally intended. Dialogue was re-looped to match the new, shorter version. Some production credits from the episode are missing as well, due to their being on screen during the omitted footage. They also removed the last two episodes of the second season since both of them featured a building burning down. Another noticeable edit can be viewed in season three's "Enter the Green Goblin" episode. In the original, the Goblin Glider slams into a building with Spider-Man riding on top. In the newly edited version, the scene is cut, and Spider-Man emerges from a hole in the side of the building. Another edit occurs near the end of episode 21, when it is revealed that Kraven and Punisher's last battle with the "Man-Spider" was in fact inside the parking garage of the World Trade Center, and that Kraven had deduced the location by smelling some webbing left at a previous battle and detecting remnant soot in it from the terrorist bombing of the early 1990s. The whole sequence of Punisher finding out where they are and Kraven's explanation of how he knew where to look for them was cut, though the battle scenes within the garage are left intact, since obviously they could belong to any parking garage until the final revelation.


Cool I didnt know all that.

Saber Prime wrote:Well by you're logic. Like you just exsplained, the Ironmonger armor is "just a suit" there's nothing conecting the suit to the human inside it.

The skin on the Terminator T800 is the same thing. There's nothing conecting the skin to the robot inside it.


You need to what the films again....in particular T2:Judgement day.

Arronald's character states that his outer skin and organics are tied to his neral prosser and that any damage to it is regeresters in his brain as a neral input that can be considered pain.

As I said before they dont need their organics to live but its a hell of a lot more then a "skin suit".

Its living breathing tissue.

Saber Prime wrote:I don't belive that exsplination was ever mentioned in the cartoon.


No they never went into that much depth in the cartoon.

Saber Prime wrote: It was just the difference between born mutants and people like Spider-man who became mutants later in life.


Basic Marvel physice....one can not become a mutant later in life.

One must be born a mutant.Those whos DNA are altered later in life are "mutates".

Its as fundimantal in the Marvel U as Superman being an alien.
Saber Prime wrote:What you're saying is probly true for the comics, but was different for the cartoon.


No it isint.

Even the cartoon refered to Spiderman's blood as being "Mutated" and that all mutants are born that way.

Saber Prime wrote:[

In the movie allso different. It was shown in the first movie that Bruce Banner's father was giving him drugs that allowed him to be mutated rather than getting killed.


You just said it...."Mutated".

Saber Prime wrote:
In the second movie it was mentioned briefly that Betty Ross had created some sort of primer that Bruce took before the exsperiment. In the words of the Leader "That's why you didn't die from radiation sickness years ago."


yeah that primer mutated his body.

Saber Prime wrote:[

It actully seems even Abomination was taking the super soilder serum that could have prevented his death and caused a mutation insted.


Same as above

Saber Prime wrote:Well, what was the difference between him and a normal vampire in the comics?


Morbius does not possess any of the mystical vulnerabilities that supernatural vampires are subject to, such as garlic, holy water, or silver. He has a strong aversion to sunlight, thanks to his photo-sensitive skin which prevents any protection from major sun burn, in contrast to "true" vampires that are incinerated by it.

Morbius lacks the shapeshifting and weather control powers of vampires in the Marvel U, and the ability to control animals. Like "true" vampires, Morbius does possess the ability to hypnotize beings of lesser willpower and bring them under his control, which can only be resisted by those possessing an extremely strong will. He also has the ability to "morph" his body to fit through small spaces, like a mouse.

Morbius' victims do not necessarily become vampires themselves.

Morbius possesses the ability of transvection, navigating wind currents and gliding for various distances.Most Vampires in the Marvel U can outright fly.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Nico » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:49 am

To clarify the whole "terminator are cyborg" thing: http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Cyborg
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:55 am

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Basic Marvel physice....one can not become a mutant later in life.

One must be born a mutant.Those whos DNA are altered later in life are "mutates".

Its as fundimantal in the Marvel U as Superman being an alien.


The word "Mutate" is not a noun, it's a verb.

Plus, since you're saying that Spider-Man is not a mutant because he was not born one, does that mean that Spider-Girl, his daughter, is a mutant?
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Nico » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:56 am

Sabrblade wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Basic Marvel physice....one can not become a mutant later in life.

One must be born a mutant.Those whos DNA are altered later in life are "mutates".

Its as fundimantal in the Marvel U as Superman being an alien.


The word "Mutate" is not a noun, it's a verb.

Plus, since you're saying that Spider-Man is not a mutant because he was not born one, does that mean that Spider-Girl, his daughter, is a mutant?


Technically, yes.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:47 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:The word "Mutate" is not a noun, it's a verb.


Whats that got to do with anything???

As with most verbs it can be applyed to describe a persons gender, and/or number of some of its arguments.

Sabrblade wrote:Plus, since you're saying that Spider-Man is not a mutant because he was not born one, does that mean that Spider-Girl, his daughter, is a mutant?


Absulty yes.

Why would you even question that.

Just like Franklin Richards [the child of Sue and Reed of the FF] May "Mayday" Parker got her powers threw birth because of her fathers mutation.

That makes her a mutant by Marvels defintion of the word.

There have been some arguments made in the past that state that if a child develops the same powers as his/her parent then its not really a mutant but just inhereting the abilities of the parent.

But in Spidergirls case she didnt develop the exact same abilities as her father.....at least not at the same levels.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Saber Prime » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:01 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Even the cartoon refered to Spiderman's blood as being "Mutated" and that all mutants are born that way.


But as far as we know in the animated universe Spider-man was NOT born that way. His blood was only mutated AFTER the spider bite. He was still refered to as a mutant. The thing is Wolverine complained and this was his exact words "He's not even a real mutant."

He may not of been born a mutant, he was mutated but a person who is mutated is still a mutant.

The thing is, Mutant and Mutated have the same basic meaning. However mutant is a noun, it's what you call the person, a mutant. Mutated is a verb, it's only used to describe what happens to individuals who were not born mutants but not to describe what they are.

Saber Prime wrote:Well, what was the difference between him and a normal vampire in the comics?


Morbius does not possess any of the mystical vulnerabilities that supernatural vampires are subject to, such as garlic, holy water, or silver. He has a strong aversion to sunlight, thanks to his photo-sensitive skin which prevents any protection from major sun burn, in contrast to "true" vampires that are incinerated by it.

Morbius lacks the shapeshifting and weather control powers of vampires in the Marvel U, and the ability to control animals. Like "true" vampires, Morbius does possess the ability to hypnotize beings of lesser willpower and bring them under his control, which can only be resisted by those possessing an extremely strong will. He also has the ability to "morph" his body to fit through small spaces, like a mouse.

Morbius' victims do not necessarily become vampires themselves.

Morbius possesses the ability of transvection, navigating wind currents and gliding for various distances.Most Vampires in the Marvel U can outright fly.


Not everyone who gets bit by a real vampire will become one. Vampires can either turn humans or outright kill them at will.

While we're on the subject, I don't remember if the cartoon ever talked about familiars like the movie did. Was that ever in the comics or is that something that was only in the movies. Familiars for anyone that doesn't know because I'm probly spelling it wrong, are humans who help the vampires for personal reasons. Of course as far as the movies show, familiars have never been repaid for their services.

Some familiars want protection, they like being human and convince the vampires they could be more use as workers than as food. Of course they end up getting killed once their usefullness runs out. Others want to be vampires themselfs however, selective breeding, for whatever reasons the vampire doesn't want to turn that particular human and just use them untill their usefullness runs out and kills them.

All familiars are "branded" like cattle with the mark of their "owners".
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Saber Prime » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:07 pm

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:The word "Mutate" is not a noun, it's a verb.


Whats that got to do with anything???

As with most verbs it can be applyed to describe a persons gender, and/or number of some of its arguments.


Adjitives are words that describe Nouns. Verbs are actions. And a noun of course is a person, place, or thing.

You're taking a verb and useing it as either a noun or an adjitive.

So Spider-man is in fact a Mutant. Mutated is what happen to him, not what he is.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Dead Metal » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:13 pm

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Saber Prime wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:The word "Mutate" is not a noun, it's a verb.


Whats that got to do with anything???

As with most verbs it can be applyed to describe a persons gender, and/or number of some of its arguments.


Adjitives are words that describe Nouns. Verbs are actions. And a noun of course is a person, place, or thing.

You're taking a verb and useing it as either a noun or an adjitive.

So Spider-man is in fact a Mutant. Mutated is what happen to him, not what he is.


Spider-Man is not a mutant!
If he were a Mutant Prof X would have contacted him and asked him to join the X-Men, Magneto would have done the same.
It's been stated in fiction numerous times the Spider-Man is not a Mutant in Ultimate Spider-Man Wolverine even gets angry as Spider-Man states he's a Mutant.
In House of M he pretends to be a Mutant.
To be a mutant in the Marvel Universe you need the X gene in your DNA Spider-Man doesn't have that. Also the end of House of M would have cost him his powers.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:12 pm

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Ok, so from I what i'm getting for Sto is that, in oreder to be a "mutant", you have to be born with the mutation.

Well, I know this isn't Marvel, but what about the TMNT? The M in their name is short for "Mutant" and not "Mutated" or anything. So, it's been outright stated that they are mutants, but hey weren't born as mutants. Their mutation occured post-birth.

I know there's been several different versions of their origins, but they all involve their mutation occurring after they were born, when they were a little younger than toddlers.

So, there must be more than one type of mutant. Perhaps the X-men are, as Saber Prime said Wolverine put it, "real mutants", and those who mutated after their birth are like "unauthentic mutants" or something.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:25 pm

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Saber Prime wrote:
But as far as we know in the animated universe Spider-man was NOT born that way. His blood was only mutated AFTER the spider bite. He was still refered to as a mutant The thing is Wolverine complained and this was his exact words "He's not even a real mutant.".


You missed what I said about that episode.

Calling Spiderman a mutant in that episode was a plot devise ment to tie in the X-men.

He was called Mutant by a few characters but other characters and even the Beast who Spiderman went to foe help said he was not sure if he was a true mutant.

Spiderman in the animated serries was a "mutated character" and it was stated a number of times that his DNA was mutated.

Saber Prime wrote:The thing is, Mutant and Mutated have the same basic meaning..


Not in the Marvel universe.

Saber Prime wrote:However mutant is a noun, it's what you call the person, a mutant. Mutated is a verb, it's only used to describe what happens to individuals who were not born mutants but not to describe what they are..


As I said before.....As with many verbs it can be applyed to describe a persons gender, and/or number of some of its arguments.

If you can use a verb to describe a persons gender you can use the verb "Mutate" to describe what a character is.

Saber Prime wrote:Not everyone who gets bit by a real vampire will become one. Vampires can either turn humans or outright kill them at will.


Your mixing Vampire myth from other fiction with Marvels.

At the time Mobious was created Marvels Vampires would be made from a single feeding with out any need to "Turn" them.

It was very simular to the spreading of the Zombie virus.A single bite could do the job.

Some of this has changed over the years with Marvels Vampires.

Saber Prime wrote:
While we're on the subject, I don't remember if the cartoon ever talked about familiars like the movie did. Was that ever in the comics or is that something that was only in the movies. Familiars for anyone that doesn't know because I'm probly spelling it wrong, are humans who help the vampires for personal reasons. Of course as far as the movies show, familiars have never been repaid for their services.

Some familiars want protection, they like being human and convince the vampires they could be more use as workers than as food. Of course they end up getting killed once their usefullness runs out. Others want to be vampires themselfs however, selective breeding, for whatever reasons the vampire doesn't want to turn that particular human and just use them untill their usefullness runs out and kills them.

All familiars are "branded" like cattle with the mark of their "owners".


In the marvel U "familiars" were a bit different but they were there in some cases.

And not just with vampires....there were Witches and vodo preast that had them as well.

Some were shap shifters, mostly cats, while others were pretty normal.

I dont remember if the Vampire familiars were branded in the comice nor do I remember if there were such large numbers of them.

I only remember a few differet vampires even having any.
Saber Prime wrote:
He may not of been born a mutant, he was mutated but a person who is mutated is still a mutant. .


Saber Prime wrote:
Adjitives are words that describe Nouns. Verbs are actions. And a noun of course is a person, place, or thing.

You're taking a verb and useing it as either a noun or an adjitive..


VERB:

In syntax, a verb is a word (part of speech) that usually denotes an action (bring, read), an occurrence (decompose, glitter), or a state of being (exist, stand). Depending on the language, a verb may vary in form according to many factors, possibly including its tense, aspect, mood and voice. It may also agree with the person, gender, and/or number of some of its arguments (subject, object, etc.). action verbs involve people doing things.

Valency (linguistics)
The number of arguments that a verb takes is called its valency or valence. Verbs can be classified according to their valency.


Intransitive (valency = 1): the verb only has a subject. For example: "he runs", "it falls".
Transitive (valency = 2): the verb has a subject and a direct object. For example: "she eats fish", "we hunt deer".
Linking (valency = 3): State of being; does not require an action. The subject complements are related to subject rather than the verb. It simply reports a condition or asks a questions about a condition.

So in this case calling Spiderman a "Mutate" is as a report on his condition....as state of his being.

The verb does not require an action.

We've been threw this kind of argument before and you never win.And I dont mean to disrespect you.I went to school to try to learn to become a writter and artist for comics so I know the use of these terms a bit better.

Saber Prime wrote:So Spider-man is in fact a Mutant. Mutated is what happen to him, not what he is.


Again no.

A mutant in the marvel Universe is one born with an active mutant gene.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Homo_Superior

Spiderman is whats known as a enhansed human or a mutated human.

Dead Metal wrote:
Spider-Man is not a mutant!
If he were a Mutant Prof X would have contacted him and asked him to join the X-Men, Magneto would have done the same.
It's been stated in fiction numerous times the Spider-Man is not a Mutant in Ultimate Spider-Man Wolverine even gets angry as Spider-Man states he's a Mutant.
In House of M he pretends to be a Mutant.
To be a mutant in the Marvel Universe you need the X gene in your DNA Spider-Man doesn't have that. Also the end of House of M would have cost him his powers.


Thank you.

Sabrblade wrote:Ok, so from I what i'm getting for Sto is that, in oreder to be a "mutant", you have to be born with the mutation.

Well, I know this isn't Marvel, but what about the TMNT? The M in their name is short for "Mutant" and not "Mutated" or anything. So, it's been outright stated that they are mutants, but hey weren't born as mutants. Their mutation occured post-birth.

I know there's been several different versions of their origins, but they all involve their mutation occurring after they were born, when they were a little younger than toddlers.

So, there must be more than one type of mutant. Perhaps the X-men are, as Saber Prime said Wolverine put it, "real mutants", and those who mutated after their birth are like "unauthentic mutants" or something.


Thats why I specificlly stated a number of times that it was "MARVELS UNIVERSE" way of saying what a mutant was.

Different fictions and real worl science would differ from Marvels explantion.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:29 pm

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I'm sorry, but how does a verb describe gender?

Can I have an example?
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:37 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:I'm sorry, but how does a verb describe gender?

Can I have an example?


I believe I worded that a bit wrong.The point I was trying to make was that a verb does not always require an action but can describe or be used to report on a subjects state of being or condition.

So again in calling a character in the Marvel U, who's DNA was re-written by outside means a "mutate", I am reporting on the subjects [character] state of being and or condition.

Coming up with examples makes my head hurt.

Here's the basics on how "verbs" are used....again

VERB:

In syntax, a verb is a word (part of speech) that usually denotes an action (bring, read), an occurrence (decompose, glitter), or a state of being (exist, stand). Depending on the language, a verb may vary in form according to many factors, possibly including its tense, aspect, mood and voice. It may also agree with the person, gender, and/or number of some of its arguments (subject, object, etc.). action verbs involve people doing things.

Valency (linguistics)

The number of arguments that a verb takes is called its valency or valence. Verbs can be classified according to their valency.


Intransitive (valency = 1): the verb only has a subject. For example: "he runs", "it falls".
Transitive (valency = 2): the verb has a subject and a direct object. For example: "she eats fish", "we hunt deer".
Linking (valency = 3): State of being; does not require an action. The subject complements are related to subject rather than the verb. It simply reports a condition or asks a questions about a condition.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:46 pm

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sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:I'm sorry, but how does a verb describe gender?

Can I have an example?


I believe I worded that a bit wrong.The point I was trying to make was that a verb does not always require an action but can describe or be used to report on a subjects state of being or condition.

So again in calling a character in the Marvel U, who's DNA was re-written by outside means a "mutate", I am reporting on the subjects [character] state of being and or condition.

Coming up with examples makes my head hurt.

Here's the basics on how "verbs" are used....again

VERB:

In syntax, a verb is a word (part of speech) that usually denotes an action (bring, read), an occurrence (decompose, glitter), or a state of being (exist, stand). Depending on the language, a verb may vary in form according to many factors, possibly including its tense, aspect, mood and voice. It may also agree with the person, gender, and/or number of some of its arguments (subject, object, etc.). action verbs involve people doing things.

Valency (linguistics)

The number of arguments that a verb takes is called its valency or valence. Verbs can be classified according to their valency.


Intransitive (valency = 1): the verb only has a subject. For example: "he runs", "it falls".
Transitive (valency = 2): the verb has a subject and a direct object. For example: "she eats fish", "we hunt deer".
Linking (valency = 3): State of being; does not require an action. The subject complements are related to subject rather than the verb. It simply reports a condition or asks a questions about a condition.


I did not ask for a definition. I am well aware of what a verb is. But what I need is an example(s) of its use as a way of describing a gender.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:19 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
I did not ask for a definition. I am well aware of what a verb is. But what I need is an example(s) of its use as a way of describing a gender.


No disrespect but why are so many ignoring detail of my post. As I said:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:"I believe I worded that a bit wrong".

The point I was trying to make was that a verb does not always require an action but can describe or be used to report on a subjects state of being or condition.

So again in calling a character in the Marvel U, who's DNA was re-written by outside means a "mutate", I am reporting on the subjects [character] state of being and or condition.


So again when I said the things about describing gender I miss-worded my post.

At the time I couldnt find the right words to elaborate on how the word "mutate" can be applied to the character.
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Re: The Official Transformers: Animated Discussion Thread!

Postby Saber Prime » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:37 am

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:As I said before.....As with many verbs it can be applyed to describe a persons gender, and/or number of some of its arguments.

If you can use a verb to describe a persons gender you can use the verb "Mutate" to describe what a character is.


But you CAN'T use a verb to describe a person. A verb is an ACTION not a DESCRIPTION.

You're confusing verb with adjative. An adjative is a word used to describe a noun.

Verbs can NOT be used as adjatives.

["Saber Prime"]Not everyone who gets bit by a real vampire will become one. Vampires can either turn humans or outright kill them at will.


Your mixing Vampire myth from other fiction with Marvels.

At the time Mobious was created Marvels Vampires would be made from a single feeding with out any need to "Turn" them.

It was very simular to the spreading of the Zombie virus.A single bite could do the job.

Some of this has changed over the years with Marvels Vampires.[/quote]

You've lost me completly. I don't by any means understand what you just said has anything to do with what I said.

If if what you said did have any conection with what I said I'm still lost on the line "vampires would be made from a single bite without any need to "turn" them." I've read that like 8 different times and it makes absolutly no sence.

Vampires would be made from a single bite. The problem here is I never said ANYTHING about how many times a vampire would have to bite someone to turn them so I don't get why you even said that.

Without any need to "turn" them. Adds to the confusion by contridicting the first part of the statement that made no sence to begine with. To "turn" a human and make a vampire are the same thing so you basically said "vampires can make other vampires without makeing other vampires."

So yeah, could you rephraise this whole section here because I really have no clue what the heck you're trying to say and have no idea how to respond other than to exsplain why it makes absolutly no sence.

Saber Prime wrote:While we're on the subject, I don't remember if the cartoon ever talked about familiars like the movie did. Was that ever in the comics or is that something that was only in the movies. Familiars for anyone that doesn't know because I'm probly spelling it wrong, are humans who help the vampires for personal reasons. Of course as far as the movies show, familiars have never been repaid for their services.

Some familiars want protection, they like being human and convince the vampires they could be more use as workers than as food. Of course they end up getting killed once their usefullness runs out. Others want to be vampires themselfs however, selective breeding, for whatever reasons the vampire doesn't want to turn that particular human and just use them untill their usefullness runs out and kills them.

All familiars are "branded" like cattle with the mark of their "owners".


In the marvel U "familiars" were a bit different but they were there in some cases.

And not just with vampires....there were Witches and vodo preast that had them as well.

Some were shap shifters, mostly cats, while others were pretty normal.

I dont remember if the Vampire familiars were branded in the comice nor do I remember if there were such large numbers of them.

I only remember a few differet vampires even having any.


I think you're mixing media there with the witch talk. Witches familiars are an entirely different thing from Vampires. Vampire familiars were just mortals, cattle really. Witch familiars are useually but not allways, animals or former witches in the form of animals, mostly cats.

Vampire familiars serve as workers, someone who can easily walk around in daylight and do the jobs the vampires themselfs can't. Witch familiars depending on the fiction can be either talking or non talking animals that are either teachers, protectors, or the true source of their magic.

When I did "Bell, Book, and Candle" at SRT the witches familiar for that show was not a speaking animal but it was an animal. A black cat who got passed to the youngest witch in the familiy each generation and kept the magic for the whole family. When the main character fell in love with a mortal the cat ran off because witches can't fall in love and keep their powers. Of course sence the whole family drew their powers from that familiar everyone became mortal allthough not all at ounce. It took a while before the ripple effect hit previous generations.

So in this case calling Spiderman a "Mutate" is as a report on his condition....as state of his being.

The verb does not require an action.


Did you even read the definition you just put up? Yes a Verb not only requires an action, IT IS AN ACTION. The definiton you put up only says that about 10 times. It allso gave about 10 examples of verbs that were ALL ACTIONS.

I read the definition you put up just now and guess what, it's the same definition I was tought in school and that is that a verb is an action.

How are you getting that it's a describing word? That would be an adjative. I use to get nouns and adjatives mixed up in school, alot of people get thoughs two mixed up but this is the first I seen anyone confuse a verb for an adjative.

We've been threw this kind of argument before and you never win.And I dont mean to disrespect you.I went to school to try to learn to become a writter and artist for comics so I know the use of these terms a bit better.


Not to dissrespect you, but they teach this stuff in elimentry school and again in high school. It's verry basic stuff and you are in fact getting it wrong. The defintion you posted will even tell you what you're saying is wrong if you bothered to read it yourself.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Noun



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/verb

any member of a class of words that are formally distinguished in many languages, as in English by taking the past ending in -ed, that function as the main elements of predicates, that typically express action, state, or a relation between two things, and that (when inflected) may be inflected for tense, aspect, voice, mood, and to show agreement with their subject or object.

The part of speech that expresses existence, action, or occurrence in most languages.

a content word that denotes an action, occurrence, or state of existence

A word that represents an action or a state of being. Go, strike, travel, and exist are examples of verbs. A verb is the essential part of the predicate of a sentence. The grammatical forms of verbs include number, person, and tense. (See auxiliary verb, infinitive, intransitive verb, irregular verb, participle, regular verb, and transitive verb.)

A word which affirms or predicates something of some person or thing; a part of speech expressing being, action, or the suffering of action.

A verb is a word whereby the chief action of the mind [the assertion or the denial of a proposition] finds expression. --Earle.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=adjective

A word used with a noun, or substantive, to express a quality of the thing named, or something attributed to it, or to limit or define it, or to specify or describe a thing, as distinct from something else. Thus, in phrase, "a wise ruler," wise is the adjective, expressing a property of ruler.

There you go sto, I quoted the dictionary and not only am I right but I didn't even have to look it up to know I was right. I've had this one drilled into my head for 12 years of school.

The verry simple meanings are.

Noun = Person, place, or thing. Spider-man, New York, and sword are all examples of nouns.

Verb = an Action. Punch, kick, jump, swing are all examples of verbs.

Adjective = a describeing word for a noun. If you read the definitions I quoted and sited you'll notice you have in fact been useing a verb as an adjective.

Nouns and Adjectives are easy to confuse and actully preddy common to mix up the two but how you get adjective confused for Verb I'll never know.

BTW, I had my spelling corrected by a 12 year old today allthough I don't remember leaveing the letter out when I wrote it. I wrote nevisly insted of nervisly.
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