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[Shadowman]

What I find strange is that Megatron doesn't recognise the ship as Trypticon (Or so it would seem he doesn't)

I've always understood the continuity between the War for Cybertron games, the Exodus/Exile novels, and Prime to be rather loose. It wouldn't be surprising that Megatron wouldn't recognize his ship as being Trypticon, just to keep people who haven't read the books and/or played the games from being confused.

Another alternative: the current Nemesis isn't Trypticon at all. It's been a few millennia/eons since the Cybertronians left their home, after all. It wouldn't be surprising that Trypticon's been lost/elsewhere in the universe after all these years and Nemesis is a completely different ship. Especially since both the Harbinger and the Nemesis seem to share the same design (hard to tell since the Harbinger is in peices).

One thing the episode didn't explain was why the ship, under Dark Energon influence, was going after ancient Cybertronian relics. Ratchet does ask, but the ship basically hangs up on him. Hopefully, it doesn't go unexplained.

The way I understood it was that the only reason he was surprised was because Trypticon was supposed to be dead. Megatron probably figured infusing him with Dark Energon would make him into a controllable Terrorcon, but instead, since he was only mostly dead, it brought his will back online as well. So Megatron's "That's impossible!" could very well have been followed up with "He's supposed to be dead!"

[SlyTF1]

How do we know the ship is Trypticon?

[Hypershock]

How do we know the ship is Trypticon?

We don't. In WFC, trypticon died and transformed into a decepticon warship, which the wiki lists as the Nemesis. It's not a bad theory that the thing is actually trypticon, but there is no indication that it actually is. In the show they were surprised that it was awake at all, not awake yet again

[Shadowman]

How do we know the ship is Trypticon?

We don't. In WFC, trypticon died and transformed into a decepticon warship, which the wiki lists as the Nemesis. It's not a bad theory that the thing is actually trypticon, but there is no indication that it actually is.

Wrong on every account. In Exiles, actually, Trypticon takes on the form of the Nemesis to pursue the Autobots through the Space Bridge with the other Decepticons, but it sort of "kills" him, and afterwords he just becomes a regular spaceship. It's not a theory, it's stated fact.

In the show they were surprised that it was awake at all, not awake yet again

Where exactly do they say that? I never got the sense that Megatron was surprised the ship is sentient, just that his sentient ship has come back to life and is actively working against him.

[F Prime]

How do we know the ship is Trypticon?

We don't. In WFC, trypticon died and transformed into a decepticon warship, which the wiki lists as the Nemesis. It's not a bad theory that the thing is actually trypticon, but there is no indication that it actually is.

Wrong on every account. In Exiles, actually, Trypticon takes on the form of the Nemesis to pursue the Autobots through the Space Bridge with the other Decepticons, but it sort of "kills" him, and afterwords he just becomes a regular spaceship. It's not a theory, it's stated fact.

I think the "theory" Hypershock is referring to is that Trypticon is Megatron's ship in Prime. Unless I missed something, that has not been stated.

[Shadowman]

How do we know the ship is Trypticon?

We don't. In WFC, trypticon died and transformed into a decepticon warship, which the wiki lists as the Nemesis. It's not a bad theory that the thing is actually trypticon, but there is no indication that it actually is.

Wrong on every account. In Exiles, actually, Trypticon takes on the form of the Nemesis to pursue the Autobots through the Space Bridge with the other Decepticons, but it sort of "kills" him, and afterwords he just becomes a regular spaceship. It's not a theory, it's stated fact.

I think the "theory" Hypershock is referring to is that Trypticon is Megatron's ship in Prime. Unless I missed something, that has not been stated.

Trypticon transformed into the Nemesis in Exiles, then lost his sentience after a Space Bridge mishap. The Decepticons are still using the Nemesis, which was recently revealed to be sentient. If it is a theory, it's a theory with tons of evidence stacked in it's favor.

"Oh, but Megatron acted surprised when it woke up!" And Starscream acted surprised when he first saw Dark Energon, despite the fact that when we first meet him in WfC, he'd been working with the stuff.

If anything, it's only a theory that they switched out ships at some point. Or more specifically, they switched out one ship with the capacity for sentience with another ship with the capacity for sentience. And gave them both the same name.

"Oh, but they never said his name!" They never named any of Original 13, except for Solus and the Fallen, and they still showed them. It doesn't mean the Original 13 are an entirely different line-up, it just means they never said their names.

All this "proof" that it isn't really Trypticon isn't very convincing. Especially in the face of precedence.

[F Prime]

How do we know the ship is Trypticon?

We don't. In WFC, trypticon died and transformed into a decepticon warship, which the wiki lists as the Nemesis. It's not a bad theory that the thing is actually trypticon, but there is no indication that it actually is.

Wrong on every account. In Exiles, actually, Trypticon takes on the form of the Nemesis to pursue the Autobots through the Space Bridge with the other Decepticons, but it sort of "kills" him, and afterwords he just becomes a regular spaceship. It's not a theory, it's stated fact.

I think the "theory" Hypershock is referring to is that Trypticon is Megatron's ship in Prime. Unless I missed something, that has not been stated.

Trypticon transformed into the Nemesis in Exiles, then lost his sentience after a Space Bridge mishap. The Decepticons are still using the Nemesis, which was recently revealed to be sentient. If it is a theory, it's a theory with tons of evidence stacked in it's favor.

*I deleted the long list of potential "problems" with this theory because I never put any of them forward; I assume they were meant for others or as general complaints.

I had forgotten two main facts: 1) That they named the ship as Nemesis in Exiles. I mistakenly remembered him being a Nemesis *class* ship rather than a ship titled Nemesis. 2) That they had stated the ship name on Prime was Nemesis.

Rookie mistakes.

[Hypershock]

How do we know the ship is Trypticon?

We don't. In WFC, trypticon died and transformed into a decepticon warship, which the wiki lists as the Nemesis. It's not a bad theory that the thing is actually trypticon, but there is no indication that it actually is.

Wrong on every account. In Exiles, actually, Trypticon takes on the form of the Nemesis to pursue the Autobots through the Space Bridge with the other Decepticons, but it sort of "kills" him, and afterwords he just becomes a regular spaceship. It's not a theory, it's stated fact.

I think the "theory" Hypershock is referring to is that Trypticon is Megatron's ship in Prime. Unless I missed something, that has not been stated.

Trypticon transformed into the Nemesis in Exiles, then lost his sentience after a Space Bridge mishap. The Decepticons are still using the Nemesis, which was recently revealed to be sentient. If it is a theory, it's a theory with tons of evidence stacked in it's favor.

"Oh, but Megatron acted surprised when it woke up!" And Starscream acted surprised when he first saw Dark Energon, despite the fact that when we first meet him in WfC, he'd been working with the stuff.

If anything, it's only a theory that they switched out ships at some point. Or more specifically, they switched out one ship with the capacity for sentience with another ship with the capacity for sentience. And gave them both the same name.

"Oh, but they never said his name!" They never named any of Original 13, except for Solus and the Fallen, and they still showed them. It doesn't mean the Original 13 are an entirely different line-up, it just means they never said their names.

All this "proof" that it isn't really Trypticon isn't very convincing. Especially in the face of precedence.

I dont really think starscream was directly working with it, just in charge, because theres more than a few inconsistencies when it comes to his scientific background. I think he was surprised not because it exists, but because Megatron found it randomly in the middle of space and that there was more than his original sample on Cybertron. If his ship had been dead for millenia, he would not have expected it to become sentient once again. He also would have gotten used to calling it the nemesis and not Trypticon. im not trying to prove that it isnt trypticon, im trying to say that to expect it to actually be Trypticon was kind of stretching it. the designers didnt seem to be going for "Oh I'm awake again, now I'm in charge" because in War for Cybertron and Exiles Trypticon was totally loyal to Megatron. His sentient capabilities as Trypticon were lost. Also, it was called a Nemesis-c;ass ship that came to be called the Nemesis The wfc trypticon was loyal but subservient; this ship didnt strike me as Trypticon. Im not going to say that it never was Trypticon, because this is the Aligned continuity and it's entirely possible that at some point it was. But in this episode, the mind that was brought to life was not Trypticon

ps: the thirteen are a whole different can of worms, we've gotten the impression that the 13 are the same in every continuity, so that's not really a fair comparison

pps: (check this shizz out ) remember when Dark Energon brought back cliffjumper? he was a mindless husk with only a mind to kill things. Now, the ship is different because it has vast databanks and computer capacity etc etc, but its the same basic concept: It very well could have been Trypticon in the past, but that mind wasnt Trypticon because the Dark energon doesnt fully restore one's mind. BOOM *drops drumsticks*

[Shadowman]

If his ship had been dead for millenia, he would not have expected it to become sentient once again.

Exactly! That's why he was surprised! Not that his ship was suddenly alive, but because his ship was suddenly alive after apparently dying.

im not trying to prove that it isnt trypticon, im trying to say that to expect it to actually be Trypticon was kind of stretching it.

You know what else is stretching it? Pretending this is a new ship when all possible evidence points to the contrary. You're going along with the New Ship Theory. I'm following the Trypticon Facts.

the designers didnt seem to be going for "Oh I'm awake again, now I'm in charge" because in War for Cybertron and Exiles Trypticon was totally loyal to Megatron. His sentient capabilities as Trypticon were lost.

It's called Dark Energon. It brings back the dead and often makes them go insane. Particularly strong individuals can make it work for them, however. (Megatron taking control despite having seen first-hand what it could do, and Starscream warning him what it should have done: Obliterate him)

Also, it was called a Nemesis-c;ass ship that came to be called the Nemesis

Wrong. Read this.

Transforming into a Nemesis-class battleship, Trypticon pursued the Ark to, and subsequently through, the last remaining functional space bridge in Cybertronian orbit. As the Ark emerged in unknown space, the Nemesis was nowhere within sensor range. [Exodus]

The Nemesis was heavily damaged due to its traveling through the last remaining, yet faulty, space bridge, and thus Trypticon's sentient functionality and transformation abilities were lost, perhaps forever. Megatron didn't care too much. The Nemesis was still a functioning, fearsome battleship, and that's all he required. [Exiles]

The wfc trypticon was loyal but subservient; this ship didnt strike me as Trypticon. Im not going to say that it never was Trypticon, because this is the Aligned continuity and it's entirely possible that at some point it was. But in this episode, the mind that was brought to life was not Trypticon

Going by that logic, that wasn't really Breakdown we'd been watching in this series. See, in WfC, he was this tiny little, easily excitable guy who would freak out over the possibility of death. (Losing that game of chicken to Omega Supreme) In Prime, he's a big tough brute who rushes headlong into danger no matter how bad of an idea it is.

Also, Soundwave.

Basically, characterization in WfC means nothing.

pps: (check this shizz out ) remember when Dark Energon brought back cliffjumper? he was a mindless husk with only a mind to kill things. Now, the ship is different because it has vast databanks and computer capacity etc etc, but its the same basic concept: It very well could have been Trypticon in the past, but that mind wasnt Trypticon because the Dark energon doesnt fully restore one's mind. BOOM *drops drumsticks*

Now that's stretching it. Seriously, that's the actual definition, you're now making up ideas in order to push your own theory. I'm applying facts in order to prove...well, facts. Big difference.

Short version of the above: it's Trypticon, and there's no evidence to prove otherwise. Get over it.

[Scourgescream]

wow, could you be more rude and arrogant?

[Shadowman]

wow, could you be more rude and arrogant?

Yeah. Doesn't make me wrong, though.

[njb902]

about the dark energon thing. I belive it affects living individuals differently than dead ones so it makes sense that dead transformers are zombies and live ones are well changed. so on that theory just because the cons thought that trypticons was dead dosnt mean it was, I always kinda thought he went into stasis. I mean what sense would it make for the ship to work if trypticon died?

[Shadowman]

about the dark energon thing. I belive it affects living individuals differently than dead ones so it makes sense that dead transformers are zombies and live ones are well changed. so on that theory just because the cons thought that trypticons was dead dosnt mean it was, I always kinda thought he went into stasis. I mean what sense would it make for the ship to work if trypticon died?

That's what I was thinking. Like Megatron for most of season 1, the body was working but the mind wasn't.

[Dead Metal]

The question is, why did Trypticon disobey orders from Megatron?

[Shadowman]

The question is, why did Trypticon disobey orders from Megatron?

Dark Energon, probably. It doesn't exactly add to one's mental stability. It's worth noting that when Megatron is in "Dark Energon Mode" he tends to be an even bigger megalomaniac than normal. Starscream was like that as well when he was on Dark Energon, at least up until the Autobots blew his arm off.

[njb902]

The question is, why did Trypticon disobey orders from Megatron?

Dark Energon, probably. It doesn't exactly add to one's mental stability. It's worth noting that when Megatron is in "Dark Energon Mode" he tends to be an even bigger megalomaniac than normal. Starscream was like that as well when he was on Dark Energon, at least up until the Autobots blew his arm off.

I think perhaps dead ment that if megs can control other darkened cybertronians why not trypticon. If that is the case I again point to the difference between live and dead beings. the dead are easy to control because they don't have a mind.....kind of more like a hive mind. the living however still have will, which to me suggests that they would be orders of magnitude higher to control, perhaps control is even impossible he may only be able to influence.

[Shadowman]

The question is, why did Trypticon disobey orders from Megatron?

Dark Energon, probably. It doesn't exactly add to one's mental stability. It's worth noting that when Megatron is in "Dark Energon Mode" he tends to be an even bigger megalomaniac than normal. Starscream was like that as well when he was on Dark Energon, at least up until the Autobots blew his arm off.

I think perhaps dead ment that if megs can control other darkened cybertronians why not trypticon. If that is the case I again point to the difference between live and dead beings. the dead are easy to control because they don't have a mind.....kind of more like a hive mind. the living however still have will, which to me suggests that they would be orders of magnitude higher to control, perhaps control is even impossible he may only be able to influence.

I think he figured Trypticon was all dead, and not only mostly dead, so he'd be able to directly control him like a great big Terrorcon. (And besides, what's more awesome than flying into battle on a giant zombie warship? Maybe blasting some Iron Maiden or Metallica to go with) But since Trypticon was still alive, all he had was minor influence, otherwise all he'd have to do is force-feed Starscream and Airachnid Dark Energon and those problems would be solved.

[njb902]

lol in my first sentence of my previous post I was talking abot dead metals question....don't know why I didn't type his whole user name....so my bad

[Hypershock]

If his ship had been dead for millenia, he would not have expected it to become sentient once again.

Exactly! That's why he was surprised! Not that his ship was suddenly alive, but because his ship was suddenly alive after apparently dying.

im not trying to prove that it isnt trypticon, im trying to say that to expect it to actually be Trypticon was kind of stretching it.

You know what else is stretching it? Pretending this is a new ship when all possible evidence points to the contrary. You're going along with the New Ship Theory. I'm following the Trypticon Facts.

the designers didnt seem to be going for "Oh I'm awake again, now I'm in charge" because in War for Cybertron and Exiles Trypticon was totally loyal to Megatron. His sentient capabilities as Trypticon were lost.

It's called Dark Energon. It brings back the dead and often makes them go insane. Particularly strong individuals can make it work for them, however. (Megatron taking control despite having seen first-hand what it could do, and Starscream warning him what it should have done: Obliterate him)

Also, it was called a Nemesis-c;ass ship that came to be called the Nemesis

Wrong. Read this.

Transforming into a Nemesis-class battleship, Trypticon pursued the Ark to, and subsequently through, the last remaining functional space bridge in Cybertronian orbit. As the Ark emerged in unknown space, the Nemesis was nowhere within sensor range. [Exodus]

The Nemesis was heavily damaged due to its traveling through the last remaining, yet faulty, space bridge, and thus Trypticon's sentient functionality and transformation abilities were lost, perhaps forever. Megatron didn't care too much. The Nemesis was still a functioning, fearsome battleship, and that's all he required. [Exiles]

The wfc trypticon was loyal but subservient; this ship didnt strike me as Trypticon. Im not going to say that it never was Trypticon, because this is the Aligned continuity and it's entirely possible that at some point it was. But in this episode, the mind that was brought to life was not Trypticon

Going by that logic, that wasn't really Breakdown we'd been watching in this series. See, in WfC, he was this tiny little, easily excitable guy who would freak out over the possibility of death. (Losing that game of chicken to Omega Supreme) In Prime, he's a big tough brute who rushes headlong into danger no matter how bad of an idea it is.

Also, Soundwave.

Basically, characterization in WfC means nothing.

pps: (check this shizz out ) remember when Dark Energon brought back cliffjumper? he was a mindless husk with only a mind to kill things. Now, the ship is different because it has vast databanks and computer capacity etc etc, but its the same basic concept: It very well could have been Trypticon in the past, but that mind wasnt Trypticon because the Dark energon doesnt fully restore one's mind. BOOM *drops drumsticks*

Now that's stretching it. Seriously, that's the actual definition, you're now making up ideas in order to push your own theory. I'm applying facts in order to prove...well, facts. Big difference.

Short version of the above: it's Trypticon, and there's no evidence to prove otherwise. Get over it.

No, you're twisting facts and picking and choosing the ones you like. Within the same paragraph you use evidence from Exodus and/ or Exiles (cant remember which, sue me) which are essentially novel adaptations of War for Cybertron and its storyline, then later you say that characterization in WFc means nothing!! also, i underlined and bolded the thing where i said that he turned into a Nemesis-class ship, because the first line of the wiki article you sited proves what i said.

So characterization from WFC means nothing, huh? In war for cybertron, Bumblebee has his voice, and in the novels theres many contradictions about when he lost it, does that mean that Bumblebee isnt the same Bumblebee? Not in the slightest! Breakdown could have gotten some upgrades or got reformatted, but im not gonna get into the breakdown thing

The reason those individuals can make it work for them is they're still alive. The only two people that had that power were Megatron and Starscream, but starscream sucked at it. In that same article that you so graciously provided, it says that he lost all sentient capabilities. When someone is brain-dead, they dont come back. Maybe dark energon helps with that, i dont know. Also, Dark Energon didnt have the same properties in WFC either. Megatron was surprised that it had any intelligence at all, because things that get woken up by dark energon dont have intelligence

Im not making up ideas to push my theory. We've seen what Dark Energon does to a normal cybertronian, clearly what happened here was different. Now, since it was previously stated the Trypticon lost all sentient capability, the only intelligence on that vessel left are its databanks. It was unable to answer Ratchet as to why it was so hell-bent on recovering the artifacts; if it were Trypticon, he would have recovered them to give them to Megatron. Plus, they have made efforts to at least soft-tie this series to Wfc, so using the knowledge that Wfc did come before this, was the intelligence anythin like Trypticon? No, it was cold and calculating, Trypticon would have just gone all Godzilla on them. He also wouldnt have been able to decode the Iacon database, which lends credendce to my theory that the intelligence inside the ship at that point was the onboard computer, not Trypticon coming back to life. Dark Energon possessed the computer intelligence and gave it enough plot-magic to decode the database

I will admit that i myself thought this might be trypticon before i saw the episode, then nwhen i saw a bunch of people commenting on Trypticon i got hyped uup waiting to see what would happen. But after i saw it, i said you know what, I dont think that was trypticon at all. Even if it was him in the past like you said (or could i pull the charaterization-from-WFC-does-not-matter card, cuz if that was true then that proves it isnt Trypticon ) the intelligence that was present in this episode was not characteristic of Trypticon. Dark Energon zombifies bots; it does not make them smart.

[njb902]

If his ship had been dead for millenia, he would not have expected it to become sentient once again.

Exactly! That's why he was surprised! Not that his ship was suddenly alive, but because his ship was suddenly alive after apparently dying.

im not trying to prove that it isnt trypticon, im trying to say that to expect it to actually be Trypticon was kind of stretching it.

You know what else is stretching it? Pretending this is a new ship when all possible evidence points to the contrary. You're going along with the New Ship Theory. I'm following the Trypticon Facts.

the designers didnt seem to be going for "Oh I'm awake again, now I'm in charge" because in War for Cybertron and Exiles Trypticon was totally loyal to Megatron. His sentient capabilities as Trypticon were lost.

It's called Dark Energon. It brings back the dead and often makes them go insane. Particularly strong individuals can make it work for them, however. (Megatron taking control despite having seen first-hand what it could do, and Starscream warning him what it should have done: Obliterate him)

Also, it was called a Nemesis-c;ass ship that came to be called the Nemesis

Wrong. Read this.

Transforming into a Nemesis-class battleship, Trypticon pursued the Ark to, and subsequently through, the last remaining functional space bridge in Cybertronian orbit. As the Ark emerged in unknown space, the Nemesis was nowhere within sensor range. [Exodus]

The Nemesis was heavily damaged due to its traveling through the last remaining, yet faulty, space bridge, and thus Trypticon's sentient functionality and transformation abilities were lost, perhaps forever. Megatron didn't care too much. The Nemesis was still a functioning, fearsome battleship, and that's all he required. [Exiles]

The wfc trypticon was loyal but subservient; this ship didnt strike me as Trypticon. Im not going to say that it never was Trypticon, because this is the Aligned continuity and it's entirely possible that at some point it was. But in this episode, the mind that was brought to life was not Trypticon

Going by that logic, that wasn't really Breakdown we'd been watching in this series. See, in WfC, he was this tiny little, easily excitable guy who would freak out over the possibility of death. (Losing that game of chicken to Omega Supreme) In Prime, he's a big tough brute who rushes headlong into danger no matter how bad of an idea it is.

Also, Soundwave.

Basically, characterization in WfC means nothing.

pps: (check this shizz out ) remember when Dark Energon brought back cliffjumper? he was a mindless husk with only a mind to kill things. Now, the ship is different because it has vast databanks and computer capacity etc etc, but its the same basic concept: It very well could have been Trypticon in the past, but that mind wasnt Trypticon because the Dark energon doesnt fully restore one's mind. BOOM *drops drumsticks*

Now that's stretching it. Seriously, that's the actual definition, you're now making up ideas in order to push your own theory. I'm applying facts in order to prove...well, facts. Big difference.

Short version of the above: it's Trypticon, and there's no evidence to prove otherwise. Get over it.

No, you're twisting facts and picking and choosing the ones you like. Within the same paragraph you use evidence from Exodus and/ or Exiles (cant remember which, sue me) which are essentially novel adaptations of War for Cybertron and its storyline, then later you say that characterization in WFc means nothing!! also, i underlined and bolded the thing where i said that he turned into a Nemesis-class ship, because the first line of the wiki article you sited proves what i said.

So characterization from WFC means nothing, huh? In war for cybertron, Bumblebee has his voice, and in the novels theres many contradictions about when he lost it, does that mean that Bumblebee isnt the same Bumblebee? Not in the slightest! Breakdown could have gotten some upgrades or got reformatted, but im not gonna get into the breakdown thing

The reason those individuals can make it work for them is they're still alive. The only two people that had that power were Megatron and Starscream, but starscream sucked at it. In that same article that you so graciously provided, it says that he lost all sentient capabilities. When someone is brain-dead, they dont come back. Maybe dark energon helps with that, i dont know. Also, Dark Energon didnt have the same properties in WFC either. Megatron was surprised that it had any intelligence at all, because things that get woken up by dark energon dont have intelligence

Im not making up ideas to push my theory. We've seen what Dark Energon does to a normal cybertronian, clearly what happened here was different. Now, since it was previously stated the Trypticon lost all sentient capability, the only intelligence on that vessel left are its databanks. It was unable to answer Ratchet as to why it was so hell-bent on recovering the artifacts; if it were Trypticon, he would have recovered them to give them to Megatron. Plus, they have made efforts to at least soft-tie this series to Wfc, so using the knowledge that Wfc did come before this, was the intelligence anythin like Trypticon? No, it was cold and calculating, Trypticon would have just gone all Godzilla on them. He also wouldnt have been able to decode the Iacon database, which lends credendce to my theory that the intelligence inside the ship at that point was the onboard computer, not Trypticon coming back to life. Dark Energon possessed the computer intelligence and gave it enough plot-magic to decode the database

I will admit that i myself thought this might be trypticon before i saw the episode, then nwhen i saw a bunch of people commenting on Trypticon i got hyped uup waiting to see what would happen. But after i saw it, i said you know what, I dont think that was trypticon at all. Even if it was him in the past like you said (or could i pull the charaterization-from-WFC-does-not-matter card, cuz if that was true then that proves it isnt Trypticon ) the intelligence that was present in this episode was not characteristic of Trypticon. Dark Energon zombifies bots; it does not make them smart.

yawn..... I've said it to saberblade and ill say it again and again and again . just because the cons 'thought' he couldn't be repaired dosnt mean he couldn't be.

[Shadowman]

No, you're twisting facts and picking and choosing the ones you like. Within the same paragraph you use evidence from Exodus and/ or Exiles (cant remember which, sue me) which are essentially novel adaptations of War for Cybertron and its storyline, then later you say that characterization in WFc means nothing!!

Did you read the novels? It's a loose adaptation at best.

also, i underlined and bolded the thing where i said that he turned into a Nemesis-class ship, because the first line of the wiki article you sited proves what i said.

Well, yeah. Except they go on to refer to his warship mode as the Nemesis, as the article I provided mentioned, so technically we're both right on that.

So characterization from WFC means nothing, huh? In war for cybertron, Bumblebee has his voice, and in the novels theres many contradictions about when he lost it, does that mean that Bumblebee isnt the same Bumblebee? Not in the slightest! Breakdown could have gotten some upgrades or got reformatted, but im not gonna get into the breakdown thing

Um, yeah, that was my point. Contradictions in characterization doesn't mean entirely different character. Remember? You brought up that Trypticon's personality was different, remember?

[lots of other stuff]

The rest of this doesn't really matter. It's Trypticon, there's no solid evidence to prove otherwise. I really don't know why you so desperately want to prove it isn't.

[Hypershock]

No, you're twisting facts and picking and choosing the ones you like. Within the same paragraph you use evidence from Exodus and/ or Exiles (cant remember which, sue me) which are essentially novel adaptations of War for Cybertron and its storyline, then later you say that characterization in WFc means nothing!!

Did you read the novels? It's a loose adaptation at best.

also, i underlined and bolded the thing where i said that he turned into a Nemesis-class ship, because the first line of the wiki article you sited proves what i said.

Well, yeah. Except they go on to refer to his warship mode as the Nemesis, as the article I provided mentioned, so technically we're both right on that.

So characterization from WFC means nothing, huh? In war for cybertron, Bumblebee has his voice, and in the novels theres many contradictions about when he lost it, does that mean that Bumblebee isnt the same Bumblebee? Not in the slightest! Breakdown could have gotten some upgrades or got reformatted, but im not gonna get into the breakdown thing

Um, yeah, that was my point. Contradictions in characterization doesn't mean entirely different character. Remember? You brought up that Trypticon's personality was different, remember?

[lots of other stuff]

The rest of this doesn't really matter. It's Trypticon, there's no solid evidence to prove otherwise. I really don't know why you so desperately want to prove it isn't.

Because, at least to me, until we get a confirmation, in-show or from a panel or something, that the ship is trypticon, that presence was not trypticon to me. If you turn out to be right, i will gladly admit it. But we have no confirmation either way, which is why i dont like it when people assume something is canon when there has been no in show evidence. both of our evidence came from stuff in the continuity, but outside of the show.

Im not gonna argue anymore. you have made some valid points, but im still not convinced that that was Trypticon. Yes there is evidence pointing to it, but it's not as concrete as you make it out to be. If and when it does turn out to be Trypticon, i will do this but seeing as how we have no confirmation from anyone to do with the show, then ill just be doing this

Good points, well argued, but im done. At least until something else happens in the show with the ship

[Sabrblade]

I'm back, and ready to view the latest episode.

Episode 37 -

The Nemesis is still down since last episode's sabotage by Bulkhead.

Optimus's choice to use the Spark Extractor to end the war for good is rather dark and ethically questionable for someone of his high righteousness and nobility.

Agent Fowler (upon seeing the newly airborne Nemesis): "Sweet Lady Liberty!" -- It may be just a coincidence, but that phrase was used quite often by the Big Guy in Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot.

Hey, this episode made a Christmas reference too!

LOL at the Stasis-Locked Autobots standing like funky statues inside their base.

Miko, be VERY glad Knock Out couldn't react to that! I don't care if the creators say she's not dumb, that right there was undeniably stupid!

Though, Fowler and Raf using Knock Out like a step ladder was also pretty risky as well.

Sure guys, just leave Agent Fowler by himself, unconscious on the floor of the Decepticon warship. That should be safe for him.

Climbing up Megatron is an even worse idea! These guys are just daring for the Cons to kill them.

Wait, so turing off the ship's intelligence suddenly also turns off the effects of the stasis beam? How's that for plot convenience.

Next stop, New York City.

Hey, a "To Be Continued..." Didn't see that coming.

Notice how they never said the name of the ship's intelligence? I guess they wanted to keep it ambiguous so as to not contradict anything established by the games and/or books.

[Shadowman]

Miko, be VERY glad Knock Out couldn't react to that! I don't care if the creators say she's not dumb, that right there was undeniably stupid!

How? It was a witty one-liner. What's he going to do, break out of stasis lock and kill her?

Though, Fowler and Raf using Knock Out like a step ladder was also pretty risky as well.

Again, how? He was in stasis lock, the worst that could happen is that he would tip over.

Sure guys, just leave Agent Fowler by himself, unconscious on the floor of the Decepticon warship. That should be safe for him.

A Decepticon warship that's notably lacking in functional Decepticons.

Climbing up Megatron is an even worse idea! These guys are just daring for the Cons to kill them.

HOW?! How is it a bad idea? You keep saying that but it's all based on the idea that the Decepticons would randomly revive at any second.

Wait, so turing off the ship's intelligence suddenly also turns off the effects of the stasis beam? How's that for plot convenience.

It's actually somewhat common in fiction for things to work like that, freeing the people held captive by a spell by taking out the guy casting it. I suppose Dark Energon had something to do with it as well.

[YRQRM0]

Wait, so turing off the ship's intelligence suddenly also turns off the effects of the stasis beam? How's that for plot convenience.

It's actually somewhat common in fiction for things to work like that, freeing the people held captive by a spell by taking out the guy casting it. I suppose Dark Energon had something to do with it as well.

Same reason why every con in Chicago got sucked into the space bridge at the end of DOTM, when the pillars/Sentinel were destroyed.