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Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:08 am**

G1 Smoketreader wrote:

Suddenly? No, not suddenly if you're a good storyteller and not suddenly if there is a gap of aeons to work with.

But Jazz would need to train with them first, and he was already off of Cybertron. There was no boot camp on the Ark, and definitely not on any of the planets they were hopping to and from, so how could he have trained to be an Elite Guardsman in that condition?

Any which way, I'd like somebody to be an elite Guard vet in order to provide smokescreen with a mentor. Smokes' totally capable but his self opinion is idiotic.Jazz was a good candidate in my head since he has high fan factor and his presentation to viewers in the Bayverse was executed horrendously.

The Elite Guard in the Aligned family are, put bluntly, a bunch of bodyguards. They served for the High Council. Even with the supporting factor that he never was, I would not want that to become of Jazz, regardless of the Animated reference.

That's the same Starscream in personality as well? You're kidding?

What's different about their personalities?

Is Prime Soundwave officially the same bloke as WfC Soundwave as well? That's an honest question, I'm not being a smartarse.

Yes. WFC Soundwave is Prime Soundwave. Just like WFC Megatron is Prime Megatron, WFC Bumblebee is Prime Bumblebee, WFC Breakdown is Prime Breakdown, etc. This applies to everyone in Prime, they're all the same dudes.

To elaborate, in chronological order, there was Exodus, WFC, FoC, Exiles, Prime, and Rescue Bots. That's the timeline of the Aligned family.

Posted: **Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:38 am**

To be little more precise, the chronological timeline of the Aligned fiction seems to be as follows:

Exodus (chapters 1-11)
WFC comic/Exodus (chapters 12-15)
WFC game/Exodus (chapters 16-38)
FOC comic
FOC game/Exodus (chapter 39)
Rage of the Dinobots
Exiles
*millions and millions of years pass by*
Prime comic (chapters 1-2)/Prime cartoon episode 43's flashback
Prime comic (chapters 3-4)
Prime cartoon/Rescue Bots cartoon (the Prime game would also occur around this point if it could only fit neater into the show's timeline).

And, as an aside, the Rescue Bots storybooks seem to be their own continuity unrelated to the greater Aligned timeline.

G1 Smoketreader, you've openly stated that you haven't played the games or read the books, but you're still making assumptions and guesses without really knowing the stories of each. Wouldn't it be better just, you know, go play the games/read the books so you can get a better grasp on what you're wanting to talk about here?

Jazz can't have been a member of the Elite Guard since he was never one during his entire life on Cybertron, and by the time after he had left the planet, the Elite Guard was pretty much no more.

And like PrymeStriker said, every character in Prime is the same person as their counterparts in WFC/FOC. Optimus, Bumblebee, Arcee, Ratchet, Cliffjumper, Wheeljack, Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave, Laserbeak, Breakdown, Shockwave, Hardshell... all the same people between the games and cartoon.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:11 am**

I haven't even read the books but I still accept the series as part of the Aligned Fiction.

(Though I would really love to read "War of the Dinobots", anyone know if it's avaliable and if so where would be a good place to go and get it?"

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:59 am**

MasterSoundBlaster wrote:Though I would really love to read "War of the Dinobots", anyone know if it's avaliable and if so where would be a good place to go and get it?"

Don't you mean "Rage of the Dinobots?" Because "War of the Dinobots" was a G1 comic & episode.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:48 am**

My point isn't that I can't accept the alignment and continuity, my point is that I don't see characters in Prime from the games. I see characters FOR Prime. I don't see storytellers weaving a tale about what happens next in the continuity for the sake of the existing continuity, I see people using a simple formula to tell a story that appears complicated for the sake of their pockets. I see them getting applauded for contradicting their own installments' timeline cuz the don't have the talent to ignore the formula they chose long enough to go around a bump. Instead they ignore the bump and we are expected to beg for more.

Personal opinion, not for starting an argument: Rescue bots is for our kids, not for us. I wouldn't watch it unless my Son called me over to him, to watch it with him. If I couldn't get enough out of Prime and the Movieverse and needed to watch Rescue Bots in order to get my fill, I'd take it as a sign of bad health or bad luck, either of mine or of the story writing capabilities of the TF universe as it stands at the moment. Not attacking anyone- the idea that Rescue Bots can belong only to the children of older TF fans and new, very young TF fans was a sentiment expressed by very many about the show when the news about it first broke. I came to agree with them later. (And before anyone flies off the handle I didn't say every adult who watches rescue bots is sick by default. I'm saying that by letting my Son have rescue bots to himself helps me avoid turning him into a miniature TF collecting version of me-he ends up entering and leaving the TF universe with his own opinions about it. Others may disagree heatedly and say it's an excellent opportunity for quality time and a common hobby. I agree with that, I just chose differently and WILL spend the quality time with him as long as he invites me to do so).(NOTE: I also am not saying that rescue Bots doesn't cater to older viewers.)

Anyway, two more thoughts on Airachnid-

*that if, for some reason she wants out and tries to get offworld rather than continue her stay on Earth in Prime, there is Wheeljacks' ship for her to gun for.

*That as a Huntress she may try to pit her skills against the Predacons anyway.

@Sabr: What you're saying is obviously right: I should play the games and read the books. I live in Greece- I've bought the games twice for others because I could at the time and they couldn't,but each time was with the savings available for me to buy a PS3. I'm not in a hurry to buy the books because I know I will find them and buy them one day and read them in a more peaceful time. I'm looking forward to it but I have no plan to treat them as part of any timeline, just good books and a special treat for me.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:58 am**

PrymeStriker wrote:
MasterSoundBlaster wrote:Though I would really love to read "War of the Dinobots", anyone know if it's avaliable and if so where would be a good place to go and get it?"

Don't you mean "Rage of the Dinobots?" Because "War of the Dinobots" was a G1 comic & episode

Yeah my bad. Gettin my continuties all mixed up again...

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:39 pm**

G1 Smoketreader wrote:I don't see storytellers weaving a tale about what happens next in the continuity for the sake of the existing continuity, I see people using a simple formula to tell a story that appears complicated for the sake of their pockets.

Welcome to the world of Transformers fiction! Storytelling is pushed aside for a more obvious purpose. And it's never not been that way.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:47 pm**

Shadowman wrote:
G1 Smoketreader wrote:I don't see storytellers weaving a tale about what happens next in the continuity for the sake of the existing continuity, I see people using a simple formula to tell a story that appears complicated for the sake of their pockets.

Welcome to the world of Transformers fiction! Storytelling is pushed aside for a more obvious purpose. And it's never not been that way.

Beast Machines.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:07 pm**

G1 Smoketreader wrote:My point isn't that I can't accept the alignment and continuity, my point is that I don't see characters in Prime from the games.

Fine. Don't accept it. It's still the truth, whether you like it or not.

I don't see storytellers weaving a tale about what happens next in the continuity for the sake of the existing continuity, I see people using a simple formula to tell a story that appears complicated for the sake of their pockets.

Because they've never told the tale of "what happens next" before.

* Generation One
* Beast Wars
* Beast Machines
(A full list here)
* Armada
* Energon
* Cybertron

Nah, they just make transformers to sell toys.

Where have you been the last 25 years?

I see them getting applauded for contradicting their own installments' timeline cuz the don't have the talent to ignore the formula they chose long enough to go around a bump. Instead they ignore the bump and we are expected to beg for more.

Because the Aligned continuity is the first continuity to have contradictions.

>:oP

Rescue bots is for our kids, not for us.

You haven't watched it, then. I'm not fond of it either, but it's not on the kiddie level of, for example, Team Umizoomi.

Anyway, two more thoughts on Airachnid-

*that if, for some reason she wants out and tries to get offworld rather than continue her stay on Earth in Prime, there is Wheeljacks' ship for her to gun for.

Yeah...but she'd probably have to go through Wheeljack first.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:24 pm**

G1 Smoketreader wrote:@Sabr: What you're saying is obviously right: I should play the games and read the books. I live in Greece- I've bought the games twice for others because I could at the time and they couldn't,but each time was with the savings available for me to buy a PS3. I'm not in a hurry to buy the books because I know I will find them and buy them one day and read them in a more peaceful time. I'm looking forward to it but I have no plan to treat them as part of any timeline, just good books and a special treat for me.

While I agree in general (procuring all available information), I have an issue in the specifics.

Videogames and machines to play them on are expensive, and a luxury good that not everyone can afford. All I know about the games is from any second-hand rendition such as summaries, adaptations, comics, or walkthroughs. And I tend to use libraries for most of my comic reading, if it's not the series I'm into at the moment. (I only allow myself a couple of series, one of which is The Unwritten, or I'll go over budget.)

As for the books, don't bother. The style is awful, the story has bigger plotholes and continuity errors than what I've seen in most of the franchise, and the writing is awful. Yes, it's that bad. I have no idea how Irvine managed to write two of them, with that approach.

Anyway, gone too much off topic.

When's season 3 supposed to air?

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:38 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
G1 Smoketreader wrote:I don't see storytellers weaving a tale about what happens next in the continuity for the sake of the existing continuity, I see people using a simple formula to tell a story that appears complicated for the sake of their pockets.

Welcome to the world of Transformers fiction! Storytelling is pushed aside for a more obvious purpose. And it's never not been that way.
Beast Machines.

Yeah, but Beast Machines was terrible, so it doesn't count.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:55 pm**

Va'al wrote:Videogames and machines to play them on are expensive, and a luxury good that not everyone can afford.

Which is why I recommended walkthroughs on YouTube to those who don't have the games.

Va'al wrote:As for the books, don't bother. The style is awful, the story has bigger plotholes and continuity errors than what I've seen in most of the franchise, and the writing is awful. Yes, it's that bad. I have no idea how Irvine managed to write two of them, with that approach.

They're far from perfect and very flawed, yes, but if one wants to get the best idea of what's written in the Binder, the books are the way to go.

Va'al wrote:When's season 3 supposed to air?

Next yearish, we guess.

Shadowman wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
G1 Smoketreader wrote:I don't see storytellers weaving a tale about what happens next in the continuity for the sake of the existing continuity, I see people using a simple formula to tell a story that appears complicated for the sake of their pockets.

Welcome to the world of Transformers fiction! Storytelling is pushed aside for a more obvious purpose. And it's never not been that way.
Beast Machines.

Yeah, but Beast Machines was extraordinary, so it doesn't count.

Fixed that for ya. :lol:

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:02 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
Va'al wrote:Videogames and machines to play them on are expensive, and a luxury good that not everyone can afford.
Which is why I recommended walkthroughs on YouTube to those who don't have the games.

Va'al wrote:As for the books, don't bother. The style is awful, the story has bigger plotholes and continuity errors than what I've seen in most of the franchise, and the writing is awful. Yes, it's that bad. I have no idea how Irvine managed to write two of them, with that approach.
They're far form perfect and very flawed, yes, but if one wants to get the best idea of what's written in the Binder, the books are the way to go.

Va'al wrote:When's season 3 supposed to air?
Next yearish, we guess.

Shadowman wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
G1 Smoketreader wrote:I don't see storytellers weaving a tale about what happens next in the continuity for the sake of the existing continuity, I see people using a simple formula to tell a story that appears complicated for the sake of their pockets.

Welcome to the world of Transformers fiction! Storytelling is pushed aside for a more obvious purpose. And it's never not been that way.
Beast Machines.

Yeah, but Beast Machines was extraordinary, so it doesn't count.
Fixed that for ya.

Lol. I do agree with Shadowman though. Beast machines was just to ponderous, I'll take the wham bam thank ya ma'am transformers any day over that.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:08 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Yeah, but Beast Machines was extraordinary, so it doesn't count.
Fixed that for ya.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:16 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Yeah, but Beast Machines was extraordinary, so it doesn't count.
Fixed that for ya.

While it did get into philosophical themes regarding Transforming and the balance between beast and machine, the problem was that it had to crap all over Beast Wars to do it. To say nothing of how poorly they handled the characters (Scott McNeil is still mad about how Silverbolt was dealt with) but it's a series in which its serialized storyline works against it. It hurts the pacing if you only get the story in 20 minute increments, and you have to wait a whole week for the next part.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:30 pm**

Shadowman wrote:It hurts the pacing if you only get the story in 20 minute increments, and you have to wait a whole week for the next part.

That's what we've been doing with most of Prime, especially season 2 (mind the summer break). I don't understand your complaint. :???:

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:31 pm**

njb902 wrote:Lol. I do agree with Shadowman though. Beast machines was just to ponderous, I'll take the wham bam thank ya ma'am transformers any day over that.

It was highbrow. Nothing wrong with a bit of classiness. :-B

PrymeStriker wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Yeah, but Beast Machines was extraordinary, so it doesn't count.
Fixed that for ya.

Shadowman wrote:While it did get into philosophical themes regarding Transforming and the balance between beast and machine, the problem was that it had to crap all over Beast Wars to do it. To say nothing of how poorly they handled the characters (Scott McNeil is still mad about how Silverbolt was dealt with) but it's a series in which its serialized storyline works against it. It hurts the pacing if you only get the story in 20 minute increments, and you have to wait a whole week for the next part.

It kept me coming back every week when I was a kid, and I like Silverbolt's dramatic shock of character evolution. Keeping him the same would have felt a bit static for his growth. Sure, there was plenty of room for improvement, but what we got was cool to me.

And David Kaye has fond memories of it.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:22 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
Shadowman wrote:While it did get into philosophical themes regarding Transforming and the balance between beast and machine, the problem was that it had to crap all over Beast Wars to do it. To say nothing of how poorly they handled the characters (Scott McNeil is still mad about how Silverbolt was dealt with) but it's a series in which its serialized storyline works against it. It hurts the pacing if you only get the story in 20 minute increments, and you have to wait a whole week for the next part.
It kept me coming back every week when I was a kid, and I like Silverbolt's dramatic shock of character evolution. Keeping him the same would have felt a bit static for his growth. Sure, there was plenty of room for improvement, but what we got was cool to me.

Silverbolt, in Beast Wars, was the archetype of the white knight, almost to the point of parody, and that's what made him fun, that's what made him such a great character. Then they changed him into this mopey, whiny character, almost a parody of the black knight, but they never went over-the-top with it, they played it straight, and that's what ruined it. he was no longer fun, just emo.

Also Rattrap.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:38 pm**

Shadowman wrote:Silverbolt, in Beast Wars, was the archetype of the white knight, almost to the point of parody, and that's what made him fun, that's what made him such a great character. Then they changed him into this mopey, whiny character, almost a parody of the black knight, but they never went over-the-top with it, they played it straight, and that's what ruined it. he was no longer fun, just emo.

I know this. but I liked that the parody white knight had his eyes opened to the realities of war and villainy, experiencing first hand (and frighteningly enjoying) the sadistic nature of that which he despised. Being Jetstorm changed him for the worse, and it was interesting seeing him try to make amends for his past sins while being eaten up inside by guilt. He was put in a tight position and had to overcome his inner demons, which I felt was an interesting take on the character.

Shadowman wrote:Also Rattrap.

I'm mixed on him. On one hand, he was made more cowardly, less sarcastic, not as fun, and got a lousy robot design. On the other hand, his lack of weaponry gave him an opportunity to explore a new career path that he otherwise wouldn't have willingly taken due to it being outside his comfort zone. By removing his weapons, he had think less with his guns and more with his head, becoming the team's tech expert and seemingly following in the footsteps of his best friend Rhinox. In a way, Rattrap grew to carry on Rhinox's legacy whether he knew this or not, and I think that's cool.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:44 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:On one hand, he was made more cowardly, less sarcastic, not as fun, and got an epic robot design.

Fixed.

Seriously, I liked his robot design.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:59 pm**

PrymeStriker wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:On one hand, he was made more cowardly, less sarcastic, not as fun, and got an epic robot design.

Fixed.

Seriously, I liked his robot design.

But you gotta admit that there's still definite room for improvement.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:12 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Silverbolt, in Beast Wars, was the archetype of the white knight, almost to the point of parody, and that's what made him fun, that's what made him such a great character. Then they changed him into this mopey, whiny character, almost a parody of the black knight, but they never went over-the-top with it, they played it straight, and that's what ruined it. he was no longer fun, just emo.
I know this. but I liked that the parody white knight had his eyes opened to the realities of war and villainy, experiencing first hand (and frighteningly enjoying) the sadistic nature of that which he despised. Being Jetstorm changed him for the worse, and it was interesting seeing him try to make amends for his past sins while being eaten up inside by guilt. He was put in a tight position and had to overcome his inner demons, which I felt was an interesting take on the character.

But what was left over wasn't half as good as what we started with, that's the problem. Character development is one thing, but you don't remove everything that made the character good to begin with.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:16 pm**

Shadowman wrote:But what was left over wasn't half as good as what we started with, that's the problem. Character development is one thing, but you don't remove everything that made the character good to begin with.

He did get it back at the end, though.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:23 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
PrymeStriker wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:On one hand, he was made more cowardly, less sarcastic, not as fun, and got an epic robot design.

Fixed.

Seriously, I liked his robot design.
But you gotta admit that there's still definite room for improvement.

Room? Yes. Urgent? I'm in no rush.

Posted: **Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:29 pm**

Yeah I'm sorry but I never was fond of any of the "Newer" forms most of the Beast Era characters got. My favorite form of Primal was always the black gorilla he started the series out as, Silverbolt as the Gray Wolf/Eagle, Dinobot as the brown Velociraptor.

The newer stuff kinda killed BW for me...

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