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[Sabrblade]

Even more intriguing is the fact that he "died" at the end of Beast Hunters, like he "died" in the 80's film. Also, both involved Megatron undergoing a transformation, and Unicron and the use of the Matrix.
Later in G1 Optimus was brought back. Possible Easter Egg/Forshadowing?

Those are less "direct references to the G1 movie" and more "things that are staples of TF fiction that happen so often as to have been run into the ground by this point."

[BeastProwl]

We haven't had a Megaron transformed by Unicron since what, Cybertron? It was more about the little fire jets than anything really. I just thought it was an odd yet neat thing to pick as an homage, and it hasn't been used too often, I thing G1 Optimus from the ROTF Ggame was the last time they did it, so I was just thing maybe it was a bit of forshadowing, or just a neat easter egg.

[Sabrblade]

We haven't had a Megaron transformed by Unicron since what, Cybertron?did it, so I was just thing maybe it was a bit of forshadowing, or just a neat easter egg.

Lesee...

G1 - reformatted by Unicron

Beast Wars - Transmetalized by the Quantum Surge, then upgraded by G1 Megs' spark

Beast Machines - spark transferred into the Grand Mal and then his "Optimal" body

RiD - upgraded by the spark energies of the Predacon trio

Armada - upgraded by the Mini-Cons' Linkage power

Energon - upgraded by Super Energon

Cybertron - upgraded by the power of the Gigantion Cyber Planet Key reacting to his persistent refusal to admit defeat, erupting in a manifestation of anger and willpower (A.K.A. Burning Justice)

Animated - upgraded by Sari's key

ROTF - resurrected by the AllSpark fragment and parts of Scrapmetal

DOTM - scanned a new altmode prior to the movie offscreen (possibly in the pre-movie comics)

Prime - possessed by Unicron


And that's just animation-wise.

[VirusCarnage]

DOTM - scanned a new altmode prior to the movie offscreen (possibly in the pre-movie comics)

It was in the DOTM game Chapter VI I believe.

[Sabrblade]

DOTM - scanned a new altmode prior to the movie offscreen (possibly in the pre-movie comics)

It was in the DOTM game Chapter VI I believe.

I don't think the game is counted as part of John Barber's mega-huge main Movieverse continuity timeline.

[PrymeStriker]

And Dead Metal, as for when they said they were out of ideas, isn't that why the show became rebranded as "Beast Hunters"?

Uh....no.

Hasbro just wanted to sell toys.

They had a whole bunch of cool ideas, like reintroducing Seaspray, something with the Quintessons IIRC, etc. They likely scrapped 'em because of the whole Beast Hunters thing, which was a late idea (forced by Hasbro's toy department).

[Sabrblade]

Maximo might be referring to how the Prime creators wound up brushing through all of their planned storyline material by the end of season 2.

[PrymeStriker]

Maximo might be referring to how the Prime creators wound up brushing through all of their planned storyline material by the end of season 2.

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean they were out of ideas.

[kaijuguy19]

Maximo might be referring to how the Prime creators wound up brushing through all of their planned storyline material by the end of season 2.

You know I was talking to one of my friends on Skype last month about while he was watching the commentaries of the Target Exclusive DVD which was Dawn of the Beast the writers in it did say that Hasbro dumped the BH idea on them during halfway of Season 2 and as a result certain arcs like MECH had to be cut short to make room for it. It also would expain why Bulkhead's injuries at least didn't last long as well as why the episode Armada which seemed to have too many storylines thrown into it came to be the way they did.

[TurboMMaster]

DOTM - scanned a new altmode prior to the movie offscreen (possibly in the pre-movie comics)

It was in the DOTM game Chapter VI I believe.

I don't think the game is counted as part of John Barber's mega-huge main Movieverse continuity timeline.

But it dose'nt have any sense, DotM Game was designed since beggining as a canonical movie prequel.

Actually, I consider Miko in Apex Armor as a worst part of BH, since she already prove herself, I don't understand why thay must turn her into some kind of Jackie Chan here.

However it is interesting that both Bulkhead and Arcee seems to lost their position in BH. Bulkhead was pretty much main protagonist at the beggining, and Arcee appeared in the most number of episodes. If they really decided that these character are already developed enough, then why they won't kill any of it?

[Shadowman]

DOTM - scanned a new altmode prior to the movie offscreen (possibly in the pre-movie comics)

It was in the DOTM game Chapter VI I believe.

I don't think the game is counted as part of John Barber's mega-huge main Movieverse continuity timeline.

But it dose'nt have any sense, DotM Game was designed since beggining as a canonical movie prequel.

Except Bay has a tendency to completely ignore it, since he wants to tell his own story without being constrained by a bunch of other people's.

Actually, I consider Miko in Apex Armor as a worst part of BH, since she already prove herself, I don't understand why thay must turn her into some kind of Jackie Chan here.

Not really. You can see she's fumbling about a lot during the fight. The only reason she won was because of the strength and invincibility she got from the armor.

However it is interesting that both Bulkhead and Arcee seems to lost their position in BH. Bulkhead was pretty much main protagonist at the beggining, and Arcee appeared in the most number of episodes. If they really decided that these character are already developed enough, then why they won't kill any of it?

Because killing them just because they had character development is a terrible reason to kill them.

[Sabrblade]

DOTM - scanned a new altmode prior to the movie offscreen (possibly in the pre-movie comics)

It was in the DOTM game Chapter VI I believe.

I don't think the game is counted as part of John Barber's mega-huge main Movieverse continuity timeline.

But it dose'nt have any sense, DotM Game was designed since beggining as a canonical movie prequel.

The DOTM movie can take place in more than one timeline.

The first movie alone occurs in at least three timelines:
1. The main timeline of films, novels, comics, and weisodes
2. The Titan UK comics timeline
3. The Titan UK "Twilight's Last Gleaming" timeline.

Maximo might be referring to how the Prime creators wound up brushing through all of their planned storyline material by the end of season 2.

You know I was talking to one of my friends on Skype last month about while he was watching the commentaries of the Target Exclusive DVD which was Dawn of the Beast the writers in it did say that Hasbro dumped the BH idea on them during halfway of Season 2 and as a result certain arcs like MECH had to be cut short to make room for it. It also would expain why Bulkhead's injuries at least didn't last long as well as why the episode Armada which seemed to have too many storylines thrown into it came to be the way they did.

I knew it! I knew MECH got shunted out due to the Predacons! I just knew it!

But the same happening to Bulkhead's injury and the story threads in "Armada" is kinda surprising, but also understandable.

Now I'm kinda feeling inclined to get this "Dawn of the Beast" DVD, and any other DVDs I haven't gotten yet, and go through the audio commentaries while taking notes on them.

[VirusCarnage]

I knew it! I knew MECH got shunted out due to the Predacons! I just knew it!

But the same happening to Bulkhead's injury and the story threads in "Armada" is kinda surprising, but also understandable.

Now I'm kinda feeling inclined to get this "Dawn of the Beast" DVD, and any other DVDs I haven't gotten yet, and go through the audio commentaries while taking notes on them.

I got the DOTB DVD on Amazon payed through the roof on import costs but I got it, I think the Audio commentaries are worth the $15

[Sabrblade]

I got the DOTB DVD on Amazon payed through the roof on import costs but I got it, I think the Audio commentaries are worth the $15

Just snagged it at Target the other day for $9.99.

Now I just need the "One Shall Stand", season 3, and Target "Predacons Rising" DVDs. Already got "Darkness Rising", season 1, and season 2.

[VirusCarnage]

I got the DOTB DVD on Amazon payed through the roof on import costs but I got it, I think the Audio commentaries are worth the $15

Just snagged it at Target the other day for $9.99.

Now I just need the "One Shall Stand", season 3, and Target "Predacons Rising" DVDs. Already got "Darkness Rising", season 1, and season 2.

I just got One Shall Stand Wednesday, I got it for $12 plus another 10 or so for priority shipping, I enjoyed it. All I need is Darkness Rising and Season 3 then I have all the DVDs.

[kaijuguy19]

Do any of you guys find the Prime style to be very derrivitive and unimaginative? Some people I've heard at some sites say that too many characters have the samey proportions and samey design cues with samey faces that are badly animated. Like Optimus and Bee being largely inspired by the movies but in hindsight did nothing to make them stand out from the past versions if not better.

Also the same people gripe about the transformation shcemes not being unqiue to each characer in the slightest like, nobody started arms first, legs last or legs first, torso and arms last. They just exploded apart and reformed with no sense of weight or flow like they never transform at all with no sense of countinuity making the gimmick of the brand unimpressive in the long run.

I know this has to do with personal opinions and all and let's face it we all have different tastes in style. It's just some of these complaints are somehow valid like with Optimus,Bee and Megatron being largely inspired by the movies though at the same time we have characters like Arcee,Soundwave and Breakdown not being like their G1 counterparts.

[TurboMMaster]

Except Bay has a tendency to completely ignore it, since he wants to tell his own story without being constrained by a bunch of other people's.

Actually, Bay has a tendency to completly ignored even he's own previous visions.

Not really. You can see she's fumbling about a lot during the fight. The only reason she won was because of the strength and invincibility she got from the armor.

But still, she is a skiny teenage girl with no combat experience. And she fight's with Starscream, who has millenia of combat experience. And she won becuase Starscream don't wanna fight with her and Wreckers at the same time...

Because killing them just because they had character development is a terrible reason to kill them.

But killing character to make room for a new one? For me it's kinda strange that Ultra Magnus here is a lone wonderer. he supposed to protect other Bots in Optimus absence Isn't he? So either he abandoned he's comrades to investigate Ome Lock's energy signature, or all he's companions are dead. He could at least have some assitant on the ship... They could kill him during assult on Darkmount.

[SlyTF1]

Do any of you guys find the Prime style to be very derrivitive and unimaginative? Some people I've heard at some sites say that too many characters have the samey proportions and samey design cues with samey faces that are badly animated. Like Optimus and Bee being largely inspired by the movies but in hindsight did nothing to make them stand out from the past versions if not better.

Also the same people gripe about the transformation shcemes not being unqiue to each characer in the slightest like, nobody started arms first, legs last or legs first, torso and arms last. They just exploded apart and reformed with no sense of weight or flow like they never transform at all with no sense of countinuity making the gimmick of the brand unimpressive in the long run.

I know this has to do with personal opinions and all and let's face it we all have different tastes in style. It's just some of these complaints are somehow valid like with Optimus,Bee and Megatron being largely inspired by the movies though at the same time we have characters like Arcee,Soundwave and Breakdown not being like their G1 counterparts.

I don't really think I thought of any of that, but yeah, it's true. There is hardly anything "new" about the show. The animation style was just the movie designs drawn out like Animated's style, but in CG. For the most part, anyway.

[TurboMMaster]

I don't really think I thought of any of that, but yeah, it's true. There is hardly anything "new" about the show. The animation style was just the movie designs drawn out like Animated's style, but in CG. For the most part, anyway.

It's first cartoon series where Humans are clearly dying. Also, it is the second darkest series in history of franchise after Beast Machines....

It is hard to blame creators Beast Series proves that most fans are very conservative (Truck not monky anyone?). While Animated, propably the most unoriginal series of all calims many fans sympathy, even despite horrible look.

[SlyTF1]

I don't really think I thought of any of that, but yeah, it's true. There is hardly anything "new" about the show. The animation style was just the movie designs drawn out like Animated's style, but in CG. For the most part, anyway.

It's first cartoon series where Humans are clearly dying. Also, it is the second darkest series in history of franchise after Beast Machines....

It is hard to blame creators Beast Series proves that most fans are very conservative (Truck not monky anyone?). While Animated, propably the most unoriginal series of all calims many fans sympathy, even despite horrible look.

I'd still consider Animated "darker". The darkest thing about Prime was Silus's death. Every other episode, there was no sense of urgency or excitement, I could tell exactly what would happen, every episode. The Autobots always win no matter what. In Animated, the Autobots rarely ever won until the very last episode, with multiple deaths along the way. The only Autobot to die in Prime was Cliffjumper in the first episode.

[Shadowman]

But still, she is a skiny teenage girl with no combat experience.

And a suit of armor that gave her super strength and invincibility. You don't need skill when you've got those things. Plus she was probably mimicking moves she picked up elsewhere, like from Bulkhead.

And she fight's with Starscream, who has millenia of combat experience.

"Experience" isn't what I'd call it. Starscream has millenia of combat humiliation.

[Sabrblade]

For me it's kinda strange that Ultra Magnus here is a lone wonderer. he supposed to protect other Bots in Optimus absence Isn't he? So either he abandoned he's comrades to investigate Ome Lock's energy signature, or all he's companions are dead. He could at least have some assitant on the ship... They could kill him during assult on Darkmount.

The reason he arrived on Earth by himself was because the Dinobots told him to leave Cybertron without them. They refused to go with him so he had no one else to help him.

In Animated, the Autobots rarely ever won until the very last episode, with multiple deaths along the way.

Need I bring this list back out again? -

1 - Autobots stop Megatron from stealing the AllSpark
2 - Autobots destroy the giant nanotech monster
3 - Autobots defeat Starscream and keep the AllSpark safe from him
4 - Autobots thwart Megatron's attack on their base
5 - Autobots defeat Meltdown
6 - Autobots thwart Megatron's plan to use the Dinobots against them
7 - Autobots defeat Lockdown and send him packing
8 - Autobots stop Nanosec from delivering the Destronium to Megatron
9 - Autobots defeat Blackarachnia and get the Key back from her
10 - Bulkhead defeats Soundwave, foiling Megatron's scheme with him
11 - Autobots defeat Lugnut and Blitzwing, keeping the AllSpark safe
12 - Autobots, Sari, and Fanzone thwart Meltdown's plans with the Dinobots
13 - Autobots get Bulkhead's body back from the Headmaster, but he flees having lost, while they save the city from a nuclear crisis
14 - Autobots destroy the Space Barnacles
15 - Decepticons revitalize Megatron
16 - Optimus defeats Megatron and disperses the AllSpark
17 - Autobots convince the Elite Guard of their story and stop the rampaging police bots
18 - Optimus saves Sentinel's body from the Headmaster, who once again avoids arrest
19 - Autobots convince the Elite Guard of the Decepticon threat on Earth and capture Starscream
20 - Ratchet gets Wreck-Gar to be a hero and saves the city
21 - Autobots and Sari stop Master Disaster, get his AllSpark fragment, and beat Blitzwing
22 - Constructicons go on their own, no victory is won for either side
23 - Starscream tricks all sides with his clones, but the Autobots prevent them from destroying the city
24 - Swindle is bested by BB, Sari, and SUV; the latter of whom are also sent to jail
25 - Wasp fails to reach the space bridge, but evades recapture, and no victory is won by any Earth-based faction
26 - Meltdown is defeated, while Blackarachnia flees after her own plan is foiled
27 - Sari outsmarts the Constructicons
28 - Episode ends on a cliffhanger, no victory is won in this episode
29 - The space bridge is destroyed, and several characters from both sides are lost into the portal
30 - Episode ends on a cliffhanger, no victory is won for either side
31 - Optimus beats the Headmaster for good, Sari destroys the Rock Lord, then cliffhanger
32 - Sari is stopped by the Bots, and the Con-controlled Omega Supreme is outsmarted and teleported away
33 - Dirt Boss's plan is defeated and blows up on Dinobot Island, but Lugnut gets away thanks to Ramjet
34 - Wasp's plan is thwarted, but he flees after his loss
35 - Several Decepticons are captured, but Lockdown flees from capture
36 - Blackarachnia and Waspinator are blown to an "Unknown Locale"
37 - Episode ends on a cliffhanger, no victory is won for either side
38 - Autobots are freed from Soundwave's control, and Optimus crushes him (though, Laserbeak takes his final component away and is never heard from again)
39 - All the captured Cons are recaptured and sent to prison on Cybertron, except for the missing Lugnut
40 - Ratchet, Fanzone, and Jazz keep the Magnus Hammer and Ultra Magnus safe from Shockwave, but he escapes with Arcee
41 - Episode ends on a cliffhanger, no victory is won for either side
42 - Megatron and his cronies are defeated and captured, Starscream dies, the AllSpark is reconstituted, Prowl sacrifces himself and saves Optimus, and the Supreme clones are destroyed

In this series, Decepticon victories rank about 9 out of 42 episodes.

A retreat is not a victory if it's the only option one has left after their original plan was thwarted.

[kaijuguy19]

Do any of you guys find the Prime style to be very derrivitive and unimaginative? Some people I've heard at some sites say that too many characters have the samey proportions and samey design cues with samey faces that are badly animated. Like Optimus and Bee being largely inspired by the movies but in hindsight did nothing to make them stand out from the past versions if not better.

Also the same people gripe about the transformation shcemes not being unqiue to each characer in the slightest like, nobody started arms first, legs last or legs first, torso and arms last. They just exploded apart and reformed with no sense of weight or flow like they never transform at all with no sense of countinuity making the gimmick of the brand unimpressive in the long run.

I know this has to do with personal opinions and all and let's face it we all have different tastes in style. It's just some of these complaints are somehow valid like with Optimus,Bee and Megatron being largely inspired by the movies though at the same time we have characters like Arcee,Soundwave and Breakdown not being like their G1 counterparts.

I don't really think I thought of any of that, but yeah, it's true. There is hardly anything "new" about the show. The animation style was just the movie designs drawn out like Animated's style, but in CG. For the most part, anyway.

I wouldn't go that far. I mean sure some of the complaints are somehow valid like with Optimus,Bumblebee,Shockwave and Megatron's designs but there's still some new things that the show does bring to the franchise design and concept wise.

For example we have Soundwave who looks and acts little to nothing like how he was in G1 nor in any other G1 based versions of him. We have Starscream who's skinny design at first made a lot of people including myself surprised at first,We have an Arcee who doesn't have her G1 colours and desgin elements like many of her other versions do as well as having a slughty different personatly.Unicron not being a planet former and being in the Earth's core and guys like Predaking and Breakdown that are nothing like they are in G1 at all.

Let's not forget the newcomers like Knockout and Airachind that appeared on the show too.

So even if most of these concepts aren't too well tought out we still got some new things from the show in the end.

[TurboMMaster]

We have Starscream who's skinny design at first made a lot of people including myself surprised at first,We have an Arcee who doesn't have her G1 colours and desgin elements like many of her other versions do as well as having a slughty different personatly.Unicron not being a planet former and being in the Earth's core and guys like Predaking and Breakdown that are nothing like they are in G1 at all.

You forgot about Wheeljack, who is completly different from original, both in aperance, and in personality.

"Experience" isn't what I'd call it. Starscream has millenia of combat humiliation.

Actually, each character in this universe is a total bad ass (maybe except for Knock Out ). And character don't loose this status even after humiliating defeat. Starscream is actually quite effective, he owned Arcee and prove to be a challenge for Bumblebee, and he's missiles are on of the best inner weapons in the series! He simply prefered using hes cunning and hit & Run tactics.

I'd still consider Animated "darker".

For me Animated should be consider dark only i third seazon.

The Autobots always win no matter what. In Animated, the Autobots rarely ever won until the very last episode, with multiple deaths along the way. The only Autobot to die in Prime was Cliffjumper in the first episode.

You forgot about Tailgate, Seaspray and Optimus... Also compare Megatron position in both universes. Megatron in Animated is more a vermin than actual threat. He loose war pretty much after Allspark destruction, and in fact never had even a shadow of a chance to conquering Cybertron. Megatron from Prime from the other hand...

[SlyTF1]

In Animated, the Autobots rarely ever won until the very last episode, with multiple deaths along the way.

Need I bring this list back out again? -

1 - Autobots stop Megatron from stealing the AllSpark
2 - Autobots destroy the giant nanotech monster
3 - Autobots defeat Starscream and keep the AllSpark safe from him
4 - Autobots thwart Megatron's attack on their base
5 - Autobots defeat Meltdown
6 - Autobots thwart Megatron's plan to use the Dinobots against them
7 - Autobots defeat Lockdown and send him packing
8 - Autobots stop Nanosec from delivering the Destronium to Megatron
9 - Autobots defeat Blackarachnia and get the Key back from her
10 - Bulkhead defeats Soundwave, foiling Megatron's scheme with him
11 - Autobots defeat Lugnut and Blitzwing, keeping the AllSpark safe
12 - Autobots, Sari, and Fanzone thwart Meltdown's plans with the Dinobots
13 - Autobots get Bulkhead's body back from the Headmaster, but he flees having lost, while they save the city from a nuclear crisis
14 - Autobots destroy the Space Barnacles
15 - Decepticons revitalize Megatron
16 - Optimus defeats Megatron and disperses the AllSpark
17 - Autobots convince the Elite Guard of their story and stop the rampaging police bots
18 - Optimus saves Sentinel's body from the Headmaster, who once again avoids arrest
19 - Autobots convince the Elite Guard of the Decepticon threat on Earth and capture Starscream
20 - Ratchet gets Wreck-Gar to be a hero and saves the city
21 - Autobots and Sari stop Master Disaster, get his AllSpark fragment, and beat Blitzwing
22 - Constructicons go on their own, no victory is won for either side
23 - Starscream tricks all sides with his clones, but the Autobots prevent them from destroying the city
24 - Swindle is bested by BB, Sari, and SUV; the latter of whom are also sent to jail
25 - Wasp fails to reach the space bridge, but evades recapture, and no victory is won by any Earth-based faction
26 - Meltdown is defeated, while Blackarachnia flees after her own plan is foiled
27 - Sari outsmarts the Constructicons
28 - Episode ends on a cliffhanger, no victory is won in this episode
29 - The space bridge is destroyed, and several characters from both sides are lost into the portal
30 - Episode ends on a cliffhanger, no victory is won for either side
31 - Optimus beats the Headmaster for good, Sari destroys the Rock Lord, then cliffhanger
32 - Sari is stopped by the Bots, and the Con-controlled Omega Supreme is outsmarted and teleported away
33 - Dirt Boss's plan is defeated and blows up on Dinobot Island, but Lugnut gets away thanks to Ramjet
34 - Wasp's plan is thwarted, but he flees after his loss
35 - Several Decepticons are captured, but Lockdown flees from capture
36 - Blackarachnia and Waspinator are blown to an "Unknown Locale"
37 - Episode ends on a cliffhanger, no victory is won for either side
38 - Autobots are freed from Soundwave's control, and Optimus crushes him (though, Laserbeak takes his final component away and is never heard from again)
39 - All the captured Cons are recaptured and sent to prison on Cybertron, except for the missing Lugnut
40 - Ratchet, Fanzone, and Jazz keep the Magnus Hammer and Ultra Magnus safe from Shockwave, but he escapes with Arcee
41 - Episode ends on a cliffhanger, no victory is won for either side
42 - Megatron and his cronies are defeated and captured, Starscream dies, the AllSpark is reconstituted, Prowl sacrifces himself and saves Optimus, and the Supreme clones are destroyed

In this series, Decepticon victories rank about 9 out of 42 episodes.

A retreat is not a victory if it's the only option one has left after their original plan was thwarted.

Still, I felt like they were a valid threat. In Prime, there was hardly ever a sense of urgency. Every Autobot felt like they were being protected by the integrity of the writers. It never felt "real". It was always like there was something at the last moment to save every Autobot, every single time. Even when Bulkhead was injured, it only took like 3 episodes until he was back to normal.